Repeated CTD upon saving

[Q2R51]

Hi,

 

After my initial issues getting my modded setup to run, I've been playing around 50h without any issues. I've not added any mods since the start, so my current issues are (hopefully) not from new conflicts. Before starting this save I also made a batched patch, and afaik all mods work together without conflicts.

 

Yesterday I started running into issues when saving. So far I've saved manually a lot of times (numbering is up to about 250). Autosave is disabled (except once every half hour in menu), since I know autosave and quicksave quick give issues with so many mods. So I only save manually.

 

I first thought that it was because of having summoned Fenrir the Fire Wolf (from the similarly named mod). I reverted back to previous saves before that time, and last night I thought it worked well that way, so I just resigned myself to never use Fenrir in-game. But today when I tried playing, the same thing happens. I play for a few minutes, I go to the menu, create a new save, and it CTDs before actually saving the save file. I've tried reading the Netscript logs, but I'm unsure of what is causing the issue. The script keeps referring to some levelled lists in the Dragonborn.esm.
 

 

Any help/ideas in figuring this out would be appreciated. Before calling this save lost I'd like to see if there's anything that can be done to recover it. I'm not sure if starting to disable mods to see if there's a difference is a good idea, since some mods have started by putting items and such in the world, and might be referenced in the batched patch etc.

I've added a few of the crash logs my CTDs have generated, as well as the txt files in my profile folder.

 

@alex77r4 I hope you don't mind me pinging you, but since you've managed to help me a lot before, I'm hoping you have some ideas of what is wrong this time too.

Crash_2021_8_30_16-36-32.txt Crash_2021_8_30_21-45-21.txt Crash_2021_8_30_22-12-13.txt Crash_2021_8_31_18-53-15.txt

Profile-txts.zip

[anjenthedog]

Sometimes save files get hosed. Dunno why but it happens.

 

first thing is to clean the save file using Fallrim Tools. If that doesn't resolve the issue... Try a save from earlier in the game vector. When it happens to me I use the previous, then if it doesn't work then the next oldest and so forth, (this is because we often make saves during our session, so if the glitch occurred during that session, you may have to revert to an earlier one

 

Not to say that a newly installed mod can't also cause this (usually shown by even very old saves not opening, which is another ball of wax)

 

I looked at the most recent crashlog but it's all gobbledygook to me.

 

[Tlam99]

0403A247

 

Open xedit and check what this id points to.

This could show another hint.

[Q2R51]

8 minutes ago, T-lam said:

0403A247

 

Open xedit and check what this id points to.

This could show another hint.

 

Apparently it points to... vanilla plants and ingredients? I've got no clue what to think of that.
 

 

Spoiler

 

[Tlam99]

You got an alchemy mod changing those ?

 

[alex77r4]

26 minutes ago, Q2R51 said:

I've been playing around 50h without any issues.

 

After 50 hours with a heavy modded game, probably, you must enable SaveGameMaxSize in SSE Engine Fixes.

 

• SaveGameMaxSize (default: false) - Expands maximum save game size from 64 MB (uncompressed) to 128 MB. If you have a long playthrough and your game starts crashing when you try to save, this might fix it. Marked experimental because I can't test it myself, but is most likely safe.

[Q2R51]

3 minutes ago, alex77r4 said:

 

After 50 hours with a heavy modded game, probably, you must enable SaveGameMaxSize in SSE Engine Fixes.

 

• SaveGameMaxSize (default: false) - Expands maximum save game size from 64 MB (uncompressed) to 128 MB. If you have a long playthrough and your game starts crashing when you try to save, this might fix it. Marked experimental because I can't test it myself, but is most likely safe.

 

I can give that a shot, but I'm still far from the 64 MB (unless because of compression what my save file shows isn't the actual size?):

 

[Q2R51]

10 minutes ago, T-lam said:

You got an alchemy mod changing those ?

 

 

The only ones that I know of that change things with Alchemy are Hunterborn, iNeed and Frostfall perhaps as well (not sure if they only change food or also actual alchemy ingredients). All pretty known/stable/std mods afaik.

[Tlam99]

4 minutes ago, alex77r4 said:

50 hours

Really ?

my game is +500h with 700+ esp's 1150mods and still below 50mb uncompressed.

Others here have 800h plus and stay below 20mb compressed.

[Q2R51]

33 minutes ago, anjenthedog said:

Sometimes save files get hosed. Dunno why but it happens.

 

first thing is to clean the save file using Fallrim Tools. If that doesn't resolve the issue... Try a save from earlier in the game vector. When it happens to me I use the previous, then if it doesn't work then the next oldest and so forth, (this is because we often make saves during our session, so if the glitch occurred during that session, you may have to revert to an earlier one

 

Not to say that a newly installed mod can't also cause this (usually shown by even very old saves not opening, which is another ball of wax)

 

I looked at the most recent crashlog but it's all gobbledygook to me.

 

 

I installed and ran Fallrim Tools. But it seems my saves are... virginal when it comes to issues it can clean? I loaded a recent save and selected 'show unattached instances; show undefined elements; show formlists containing nullreffs'. But there's nothing that pops up:

 

Spoiler

 

 

The only thing that shows items it can clean, is the 'non-existent form instances'. Of that it has 378 items it can clean up. But I don't know enough of the cleaning process to know if it's safe, some mods might actually make use of those the program warns. 

 

[Tlam99]

Pretty sure an incompatibility between those 3.

Or missing patch. They edit the same stuff.

[Q2R51]

5 minutes ago, T-lam said:

Pretty sure an incompatibility between those 3.

Or missing patch. They edit the same stuff.

 

Those three are actually compatible with each other, even without a patch: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/7900 + http://skyrimsurvival.com/home/frostfall/frostfall-compatibility/

Even so, I have a batched patch that should cover any conflicts these mods have with each other. But since they're well known and established, their mod authors made sure they work well together, they are very complementary. 

[alex77r4]

6 minutes ago, Q2R51 said:

 

I can give that a shot, but I'm still far from the 64 MB (unless because of compression what my save file shows isn't the actual size?):

 

 

The saved games are compressed and their uncompressed size has none relation to their compressed size.

If your 7 MB of save game expand to more than 64 MB the game make CTD when load it.

And the game make CTD when need use more than 64 MB of memory to create your compressed saved game of 7 MB.

 

Simply, enable SaveGameMaxSize in SSE Engine Fixes and look if that solve your CTD.

[anjenthedog]

1 minute ago, Q2R51 said:

I installed and ran Fallrim Tools. But it seems my saves are... virginal when it comes to issues it can clean? I loaded a recent save and selected 'show unattached instances; show undefined elements; show formlists containing nullreffs'. But there's nothing that pops up:

That's a good thing, and ideal thing in terms of the normal leftovers that can be collected into save files. But do check from time to time. As your mod list grows you'll likely start seeing orphaned resource references and orphaned scripts (ie those note by error messages upon opening the save file with the tool), both of which can be purged using Fallrim.

Spoiler

 

So.... next on the list.

[Q2R51]

5 minutes ago, alex77r4 said:

 

The saved games are compressed and their uncompressed size has none relation to their compressed size.

If your 7 MB of save game expand to more than 64 MB the game make CTD when load it.

And the game make CTD when need use more than 64 MB of memory to create your compressed saved game of 7 MB.

 

Simply, enable SaveGameMaxSize in SSE Engine Fixes and look if that solve your CTD.

 

Yeah, I tried it, because it was easy enough to give it a shot. I set that setting to 'true' in the EngineFixes toml file, but sadly no luck, crashes still happen on save :-(.

[Tlam99]

6 minutes ago, alex77r4 said:

their uncompressed size has none relation to their compressed size

Will not discuss this, as it's a clear case for @Grey Cloud

 

[Q2R51]

7 minutes ago, anjenthedog said:

That's a good thing, and ideal thing in terms of the normal leftovers that can be collected into save files. But do check from time to time. As your mod list grows you'll likely start seeing orphaned resource references and orphaned scripts (ie those note by error messages upon opening the save file with the tool), both of which can be purged using Fallrim.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So.... next on the list.

 

Yeah, I'm aware of the risks. It's why I took my time working out my desired mod list before starting a new game. My goal is to not install any new mods during the save, I normally have everything I need to enjoy this play through for a good while. At most it might be some mod that adds some user friendliness without actual scripts or items being added in-game. But even then I'd be weary and research it properly, I really don't want to mess up a save after so many hours invested in it.

 

Seems that somehow... I did though. I'm keeping my fingers crossed you guys find the cure to my problems and that it isn't save related. Having to start over would be... prohibitive, especially if we're not sure what causes it, because it might cause it on the next play through then.

 

[Guest]

This save crash has been a thing for years, there is a fix to it, load your save, the open console and type player.kill it should kill your PC. whe it loads again, try saving. Make sure from your save folder you remove all the temp files that skyrim put in there from the crashed save, This is actually a skyrim issue.

 

Skyrim Crash on Save and CTD on Save: Fixed Completely | Techisours

 

I've had this issue a few times, so now every time, I load into Skyrim, I use player.kill usually once a day and I havent had the save bug in almost 2 years, something about your player dying resets whatever is causing the crash.

[Q2R51]

3 minutes ago, -Caden- said:

This save crash has been a thing for years, there is a fix to it, load your save, the open console and type player.kill it should kill your PC. whe it loads again, try saving. Make sure from your save folder you remove all the temp files that skyrim put in there from the crashed save, This is actually a skyrim issue.

 

Skyrim Crash on Save and CTD on Save: Fixed Completely | Techisours

 

I've had this issue a few times, so now every time, I load into Skyrim, I use player.kill usually once a day and I havent had the save bug in almost 2 years, something about your player dying resets whatever is causing the crash.

 

I actually read about that yesterday, and tried it, but sadly it didn't help.
 

I did however just delete all the tmp files (only discovered today they were in the save folder) and retried that solution, just in case. I took the save before the first .tmp files, so that none of the later ones (that I tested with yesterday, when saving would work for like 1 save and then crash again) could affect my game. And strangely enough this time it worked. At least for now. I've made 2 saves, went from the Rift to the Dawnguard area (loading it for the first time), saved again... so far so good. Guess I better play through it a while and see if it holds.

 

[Tlam99]

You must have had a bottle of spoiled beer in your luggage.

[alex77r4]

5 minutes ago, Q2R51 said:

 but sadly no luck, crashes still happen on save :-(.

 

Go to your save game folder and rename the skse co-save file.

Open your game and load the saved game that not have skse co-save file.

You can get messages of error from some mods claiming about data lost but not worry because this is a simple test.

Try save your game and, if works, try load the new save game.

 

If all that works your problem is inside the skse co-save and ReSaver can not solve it.

Look what mods you have that store data in skse using PapyrusUtil or JContainers because some of them have bad data.

 

If you can not load your save game without the skse co-save, probably, the saved game is damaged but that is strange because ReSaver say the save game is correct.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Q2R51 said:

 

I actually read about that yesterday, and tried it, but sadly it didn't help.
 

I did however just delete all the tmp files (only discovered today they were in the save folder) and retried that solution, just in case. I took the save before the first .tmp files, so that none of the later ones (that I tested with yesterday, when saving would work for like 1 save and then crash again) could affect my game. And strangely enough this time it worked. At least for now. I've made 2 saves, went from the Rift to the Dawnguard area (loading it for the first time), saved again... so far so good. Guess I better play through it a while and see if it holds.

 

So what you should do is go back a few more saves. Now how the whole thing worked was these steps:

 

1. Load in one of your very firswt saves ( you should always save a couple really early saves)
2. On the early save do the Player.kill
3. as soon as you die, hit escape, and from there load the save that was having the issue. and repeat Player.kill
4. the hard save. You should also shut off auto save all together, just use hard saves, no need to overwrite, when you get too many saves just delete some.

[Tiress]

https://github.com/Fikthenig/Crash-Bonanza/blob/Main/The Famous "Crash on Save" Bug/The Famous "Crash on Save"

[alex77r4]

17 minutes ago, -Caden- said:

there is a fix to it, load your save, the open console and type player.kill

 

I have never needed to do that in 8 years playing Skyrim Legendary.

I hit level 140 with thousands of game saves after more than 500 hours of real time in the same playthrough.

 

The player kill is a fake that only hide the real problem for some time and, finally, force you to make "Player.Kill" every day you want play because the problem is in other side.

[Q2R51]

12 minutes ago, T-lam said:

You must have had a bottle of spoiled beer in your luggage.

 

... I'm... not sure what to say to that ?. iNeed does indeed make food spoil, but not drinks like beer. I might have had some spoiled food in my pack, but not sure if that's what you mean and how that would cause a crash, or if you're just joking.