How do you tell what skintones are defined as by race for attractiveness?

[TentacleBandit]

Besides the obvious like fantasy, exactly how does wiicked whims define what skintones are defined as asian, caucasion, ect?  Like there are so many with so many shades now its hard for me to define what is "middle eastern" vs african, asian ect ect.   Clearly the mod is labeling them though, ios there a picture or graph that shows what is what or explained how it breaks down what skintone into what category?

[Scorpio]

6 minutes ago, TentacleBandit said:

Besides the obvious like fantasy, exactly how does wiicked whims define what skintones are defined as asian, caucasion, ect?  Like there are so many with so many shades now its hard for me to define what is "middle eastern" vs african, asian ect ect.   Clearly the mod is labeling them though, ios there a picture or graph that shows what is what or explained how it breaks down what skintone into what category?

That's top secret info.

Same thing when trying to pick outfit archetypes, hard to tell what is what.

The more things you choose the more picky your sim becomes.

Save yourself the time and frustration.

 

Only choose the Gender Female preference.

Check all the other ones and make sure none are selected, all blank.

Basic starting point for settings.

All your females in game should be Very Attractive now.

 

Shift Click on any sim and Select Wicked > Attractiveness

Menu pops up to show sims data.

White means you haven't picked them yet

Green Good, 100% is best

Purple or Red Colors means Attractiveness settings not matched 

[TentacleBandit]

That makes no sense to keep it "top secret" from a game developers point of view you want to give users as much information as possible, not turn it into a puzzle.

[Scorpio]

2 hours ago, TentacleBandit said:

That makes no sense to keep it "top secret" from a game developers point of view you want to give users as much information as possible, not turn it into a puzzle.

He will tell you to try it and be surprised most likely, lol.

 

Myself and another here have been playing around with attraction settings for 2 weeks now and he was playing around way before me.

 

All I can say is, it's a very complicated feature to understand the mechanics and math used.

I still don't understand a whole lot, but what we've found, less is more.

The fewer the preferences chosen the better.

 

But as an Example: I had my settings tuned to match a sim living in my household trying to push her into Extremely Attractive from Very Attractive.

Finally I was successful and also pulled 3 other Townies to that level, all other NPC's were Very Attractive, happy now.

Save and exit game yesterday, deleted the thumbcache this morning and loaded the game.

My 4 Extremely Attractive sims were now back to Very Attractive with the rest of the games NPC's.

My sims preferences didn't change overnight and I don't think those 4 other sims decided to change their stats overnight either.

Static is set as default so nothing should change.

 

Reset my sims preferences by using the same household female as before, for a template.

Then manually removed all preferences except the original ones I had chosen before.

Save, Exit, delete cache, Load.

Now I have only one Extremely Attractive sim, Resident Mila Munch.

Edit: Just noticed 2 other NPC's became Very Unattractive, trust me, they aren't.

Over 100 sims in game edited with cc and none are ugly.

I'll check them out to see what's going on.

 

My conclusion is the the attraction system is still unstable.

So don't waste a ton of time on it and get frustrated.

 

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I don't want one Extremely Attractive sim and all the other NPC's become Very Unattractive because of one sim.

Sorry for the long winded rant but I'm not real pleased myself either.

I've always played with Attraction disabled, tried it once long ago and wasn't impressed then either.        

[BatDood]

Maybe an @TURBODRIVER might be in order.

 

12 minutes ago, Scorpio said:

Save and exit game yesterday, deleted the thumbcache this morning and loaded the game.

My 4 Extremely Attractive sims were now back to Very Attractive with the rest of the games NPC's.

Had the exact same thing happen. Eight sims up to Extremely Attractive. Suddenly all of them bumped down to Very Attractive.

Static World View is enabled.

Nothing in these NPCs changed. Neither did my sim's preferences. Nothing in the neighborhood changed. No additional NPCs were in the save.

 

I was able to reset my sim by generating preferences based on a picked sim, clearing them all and manually selecting all my sim's preferences back to what they were.

Exited the game, deleted the thumbcache and when I fired up the game again, six of the eight sims were back up to Extremely Attractive so two were bumped down. Yet, they still looked exactly the same as before.

 

Unfortunately, Scorpio didn't have the same luck that I did.

 

18 minutes ago, Scorpio said:

My conclusion is the the attraction system is still unstable.

I'm of the same opinion.

[TURBODRIVER]

There isn't really a way I can explain it in words, but I would like to create an infographic that explains all of the details. There's a lot to cover, but the usual thing is that if you don't know or don't care, you don't need to set it.

 

17 hours ago, Scorpio said:

He will tell you to try it and be surprised most likely, lol.

 

Myself and another here have been playing around with attraction settings for 2 weeks now and he was playing around way before me.

 

All I can say is, it's a very complicated feature to understand the mechanics and math used.

I still don't understand a whole lot, but what we've found, less is more.

The fewer the preferences chosen the better.

 

But as an Example: I had my settings tuned to match a sim living in my household trying to push her into Extremely Attractive from Very Attractive.

Finally I was successful and also pulled 3 other Townies to that level, all other NPC's were Very Attractive, happy now.

Save and exit game yesterday, deleted the thumbcache this morning and loaded the game.

My 4 Extremely Attractive sims were now back to Very Attractive with the rest of the games NPC's.

My sims preferences didn't change overnight and I don't think those 4 other sims decided to change their stats overnight either.

Static is set as default so nothing should change.

 

Reset my sims preferences by using the same household female as before, for a template.

Then manually removed all preferences except the original ones I had chosen before.

Save, Exit, delete cache, Load.

Now I have only one Extremely Attractive sim, Resident Mila Munch.

Edit: Just noticed 2 other NPC's became Very Unattractive, trust me, they aren't.

Over 100 sims in game edited with cc and none are ugly.

I'll check them out to see what's going on.

 

My conclusion is the the attraction system is still unstable.

So don't waste a ton of time on it and get frustrated.

 

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I don't want one Extremely Attractive sim and all the other NPC's become Very Unattractive because of one sim.

Sorry for the long winded rant but I'm not real pleased myself either.

I've always played with Attraction disabled, tried it once long ago and wasn't impressed then either.        

 

17 hours ago, BatDood said:

Maybe an @TURBODRIVER might be in order.

 

Had the exact same thing happen. Eight sims up to Extremely Attractive. Suddenly all of them bumped down to Very Attractive.

Static World View is enabled.

Nothing in these NPCs changed. Neither did my sim's preferences. Nothing in the neighborhood changed. No additional NPCs were in the save.

 

I was able to reset my sim by generating preferences based on a picked sim, clearing them all and manually selecting all my sim's preferences back to what they were.

Exited the game, deleted the thumbcache and when I fired up the game again, six of the eight sims were back up to Extremely Attractive so two were bumped down. Yet, they still looked exactly the same as before.

 

Unfortunately, Scorpio didn't have the same luck that I did.

 

I'm of the same opinion.

 

If any of you can provide me a save where I can just load it and see it change then I would be able to tell why. And you have to remember too, that Sim physique can change, the can get fatter or thinner, which can be enough to tip the scale.

[BatDood]

8 minutes ago, TURBODRIVER said:

If any of you can provide me a save where I can just load it and see it change then I would be able to tell why. And you have to remember too, that Sim physique can change, the can get fatter or thinner, which can be enough to tip the scale.

@Scorpio  and I both run mods that prevent all sim's physiques from changing. No muscle or weight changes at all so that shouldn't have any bearing.

 

Unfortunately, I can't provide a save as I got frustrated and deleted the problem one. The current one I'm using has 10 Extremely Attractive sims and I haven't had a reset yet. If I do, I can definitely send it your way.

[BatDood]

11 minutes ago, TURBODRIVER said:

If any of you can provide me a save..

Sorry, I wanted to expand upon this further.

I'm not sure in my case that a save would be helpful as some of my sim's preferences were based on Hair and all the sims are wearing CC hair (properly tagged to fit attractiveness settings). That would immediately tip the scales as soon as you loaded the save so I'm not sure how helpful that would be.

[Scorpio]

29 minutes ago, TURBODRIVER said:

There isn't really a way I can explain it in words, but I would like to create an infographic that explains all of the details. There's a lot to cover, but the usual thing is that if you don't know or don't care, you don't need to set it.

I'm having some better success now in finding the right preferences but yes, generally speaking, less is more.

Avoiding all the Clothing, Skin types, and minor details works best.

Much testing and experimenting and recording changes of positive or negative effects on sim population.

My goal is to have Attractive, Very Attractive, and a few Extremely Attractive sims only, and no sims below Attractive.

 

Recording preferences that have positive effects that don't degrade any other sims is starting to work better.

The shift + click cheat on sims to see what their numbers are helps a lot to see why or what changes when editing sims to get more green, no purple. 

Learning what all the numbers mean is a bit harder to figure out at first but now starting to get the hang of it.

 

Using tons of cc hair, makeup, eyes, etc., that have improper tags doesn't help, although I've fixed most of them, but most other users haven't.

 

[Scorpio]

I'll toss in a fun suggestion as I think the Attraction system needs to have some negative buffs/consequences added, or changed.

 

My sim goes to the Nightclub and has many very attractive sims around and guess which sims ask for sex first, the ugly ones 90+% of the time.

 

Adding a negative score penalty for choosing sex pair partners that are below Basic Looking when other Attractive sims are available.

The idea being sims would always choose the better looking sex partners unless there were none available.

(Manual mode would override these but pay the price below)

 

Now the fun part.

 

If/when an active sim does choose an ugly sim to have sex with they'd get a negative buff/moodlet like....

Tense or Angry 4hrs, (Unattractive) (You were forced into it, lies)

Sad, 8hrs, (Very Unattractive) (You must need glasses)

Embarrassed/Very Embarrassed, 8hrs, (Extremely Unattractive) (You must have been smashed)

 

Some might also apply the Unsatisfying Sex debuff.

 

As it is now the Attraction system has no connection to WW sex, that I've seen anyway.

 

Something else to drive users crazy when their sims won't have auto sex 

         

[BatDood]

11 minutes ago, Scorpio said:

As it is now the Attraction system has no connection to WW sex.     

That's not entirely accurate as it does as far as moodlets are concerned.

 

If my sim has sex with anybody Very Attractive or above, they get a Confident Moodlet.

If the other sim is simply Attractive, my sim will get a Happy moodlet.

Anything below Attractive will give my sim an Inspired moodlet because it's somebody that isn't their type but it was still a good time.

 

In the case of Elders you the the "Oldie But Goodie" Inspired buff.

 

And of course, having sex in a public place will always give sims the Playful moodlet. (although sex in a public place isn't Attractiveness driven so we can probably exclude that).

[Scorpio]

7 minutes ago, BatDood said:

That's not entirely accurate as it does as far as moodlets are concerned.

Guess I should have clarified more.

 

Attraction has no connection to WW sex acceptance, refusal, or sex partner choices for sex autonomy

Buffs are all positive even for ugly sims and are just window dressing right now.

Attraction needs more teeth, or consequences, other than just adding positive buffs IMO. 

[BatDood]

3 minutes ago, Scorpio said:

Attraction needs more teeth, or consequences, other than just adding positive buffs IMO. 

I see what you're saying. I'd be all for that as long as there was a setting to disable it. I kind of like having my sims living in a happy sex world. Even when they annoy me by getting Playful in a public place. (still a pet peeve of mine). lol

[Scorpio]

9 minutes ago, BatDood said:

I see what you're saying. I'd be all for that as long as there was a setting to disable it. I kind of like having my sims living in a happy sex world. Even when they annoy me by getting Playful in a public place. (still a pet peeve of mine). lol

More settings, I love more switches

 

My other peeve is never seeing any Attractiveness Alerts, or Hot Sim Alerts for Extremely Attractive sims like I did when Attractiveness was first added as a new feature.

Although I haven't had many around but even when I did nothing ever happened.

 

I'd also suggest more positive consequences/buffs for being near Extremely Attractive sims, plus greater rewards for having sex with them.     

[MrGrey]

I donno. I really liked the attraction system concept but for me, it just doesn't work unless you make sims that are what you want to be attractive and use them to generate attractiveness. There should also be two "attractions" for Bi sims; perfect female and a seperate perfect male. It doesn't seem to make much difference in game play so I just shut it off. It's not worth setting up.

[TURBODRIVER]

On 4/25/2021 at 1:59 PM, BatDood said:

Sorry, I wanted to expand upon this further.

I'm not sure in my case that a save would be helpful as some of my sim's preferences were based on Hair and all the sims are wearing CC hair (properly tagged to fit attractiveness settings). That would immediately tip the scales as soon as you loaded the save so I'm not sure how helpful that would be.

Providing just a save that has a lot of CAS CC used wouldn't be helpful, that's right. I would need the used mods to be included as well.

 

On 4/25/2021 at 3:02 PM, Scorpio said:

I'll toss in a fun suggestion as I think the Attraction system needs to have some negative buffs/consequences added, or changed.

 

My sim goes to the Nightclub and has many very attractive sims around and guess which sims ask for sex first, the ugly ones 90+% of the time.

 

Adding a negative score penalty for choosing sex pair partners that are below Basic Looking when other Attractive sims are available.

The idea being sims would always choose the better looking sex partners unless there were none available.

(Manual mode would override these but pay the price below)

 

Now the fun part.

 

If/when an active sim does choose an ugly sim to have sex with they'd get a negative buff/moodlet like....

Tense or Angry 4hrs, (Unattractive) (You were forced into it, lies)

Sad, 8hrs, (Very Unattractive) (You must need glasses)

Embarrassed/Very Embarrassed, 8hrs, (Extremely Unattractive) (You must have been smashed)

 

Some might also apply the Unsatisfying Sex debuff.

 

As it is now the Attraction system has no connection to WW sex, that I've seen anyway.

 

Something else to drive users crazy when their sims won't have auto sex 

         

To more reaction from Sims in regards to Attractiveness - yes, I am planning on expanding that. In general, I do see that existing features need a "depth update" and I am currently planning and working on implementing it. Some features have already received some improvements in that direction.

 

Sims attractiveness does affect which Sims are picked for sex. Attractiveness is in fact one of the more powerful elements when it comes to deciding which Sims are available for sex. This of course doesn't mean that Sims with lesser attractiveness aren't picked, because there's a ton of other things that matter, like how well they know each other, making appearance less important. Nonetheless, Sims that know each other well and are really attractive are more likely to be picked, but in a linear way. I know how that can be further improved, which risks making sex autonomy constantly pick the same partners, but who knows, worth experimenting with.

 

15 hours ago, MrGrey said:

I donno. I really liked the attraction system concept but for me, it just doesn't work unless you make sims that are what you want to be attractive and use them to generate attractiveness. There should also be two "attractions" for Bi sims; perfect female and a seperate perfect male. It doesn't seem to make much difference in game play so I just shut it off. It's not worth setting up.

That is one of the extremes, yes. You can just let attractiveness be random/adaptive and live with Sims having their own preferences, but if you're a type of a player that needs to set up everything then disabling it is a way to avoid the additional hassle. I let Sims like whatever they want to like and when a situation comes where they find someone particularly attractive, that's a tool to push things forward, rather than me creating that situation by hand.

[BatDood]

15 hours ago, TURBODRIVER said:

Providing just a save that has a lot of CAS CC used wouldn't be helpful, that's right. I would need the used mods to be included as well.

@Scorpio and I have done a fair bit of testing and making adjustments to both our CC and our Preferences to optimally use the system to our liking.

 

There's one thing that I stumbled across that was possibly contributing to the issue of Extremely Attractive sims resetting. The eyelashes I use had both Male and Female lashes merged together. I unmerged them and kept only the Female lashes as I don't use them for Males anyway. The EA Eyelash remover was also flagged for both Male and Female and I changed that to Female only.

 

Before making these changes, I pulled up the Attractiveness Information by shift-clicking on sims. What Scorpio and I both found was that there was a Masculine rating that was negatively impacting sims that were wearing Masculine versions of these items. Since making these changes, I don't have that rating any longer on any females.

 

There are also various EA items that are flagged for both. With a certain eyeshadow that I had on a lot of sims, I was getting a 10% Masculine rating and my preferences are so finely tuned that it was enough to push a sim in the wrong direction it would hinder my success in pushing sims to a higher level. (Edited for accuracy)

 

I now know to avoid that eyeshadow and since making these recent changes, I haven't had any further issues.

 

So I had a couple of questions:

1) How much of the information is stored in the thumbcache? I quite often found that deleting the thumbcache would change things in the case of items flagged for both as it seemed to pick one over the other. I'm speculating that was the cause but it could have been just a big coincidence.

 

2) There are a lot of people who use improperly tagged CC and are not aware of how to fix tags. And of course EA has a lot of stuff tagged for both. What would be your suggestion for these people who want to play with the Attraction System effectively?

[Scorpio]

2 hours ago, TURBODRIVER said:

I know how that can be further improved, which risks making sex autonomy constantly pick the same partners, but who knows, worth experimenting with.

It's good to know you're still making improvements and trying new ideas, so Thank You.

 

More than likely I have my WW sex settings tuned too easy for casual sex ATM.

Like Always Accept 1

And Player to NPC sims Relationship Modifier set too high

Complete strangers ask for sex as is but I do kind of like it this way myself.

But adding Attractiveness into the mix with more kick for selection of sex pairs with 'priorities', the higher Attractiveness levels get chosen more often.

Tricky math without upsetting the balance of things though.

 

@BatDood

Attractions can be fine tuned but it takes much time and experimenting and not so easy for average users.

The main problem is the Appearance Construct preference as it doesn't follow the EA Gay Rights game tuning.

Females will always have a negative Masculine number for a handicap and Males will always have a Feminine handicap.

Because EA has so many CAS items flagged for both genders and appearances, not to mention bad cc flags if used.

At 10% you can still have Very Attractive sims but when it gets up to 17+% it become more difficult.

Because each piece of EA clothing, makeup, jewelry, hair, etc., adds more masculine/feminine points depending on the sims gender.

 

My thought is to remove the Appearance Construct Preference selection completely as it seems to be EA's way of allowing Gays to dress however they want in game.

Attractions needs to follow the same pattern with Appearance Construct although gender preference is fine as it is.

This would go a long way in helping average users as sims can wear whatever they want without impacting attractiveness.

I know it can be disabled but WW tends to want it on and it carries too much weight in scoring IMO.

It will drop all the existing female sims to lesser attraction levels when disabled now.  

(Use the extra points from removing the Appearance Construct Preference to other areas or adjust the base scoring system lower to compensate). 

    

 

  

[BatDood]

30 minutes ago, Scorpio said:

At 10% you can still have Very Attractive sims but when it gets up to 17+% it become more difficult.

Because each piece of EA clothing, makeup, jewelry, hair, etc., adds more masculine/feminine points depending on the sims gender.

True. The 10% that I experienced would hinder me in pushing a sim higher rather than knocking them down a grade. (Edited my previous post for accuracy)

 

30 minutes ago, Scorpio said:

My thought is to remove the appearance construct preference selection completely as it seems to be EA's way of allowing Gays to dress however they want in game.

Attractions needs to follow the same pattern with appearance construct although gender preference is fine as it is.

Thumbs up on this suggestion.