Masochist Tweaks

[junky1234]

Ok copying the files in to the scipts folder manually worked. For some reason the mod manager wasn't doing it even though it said it was

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, junky1234 said:

Ok copying the files in to the scipts folder manually worked. For some reason the mod manager wasn't doing it even though it said it was

If you look in your data folder, you'll probably find a bogus directory with a scripts folder inside it from the NMM install.

If you used MO it would have told you the layout is wonky and asked you to set a base folder.

The .7z files have a directory inside them they shouldn't have, so they don't install the scripts into data\scripts but into <blah>\data\scripts instead.

 

3 hours ago, RMCW said:

could write that if you can include it in the mod?

There's no need, it's easier for me to do than merge.

 

I could add a standalone button to disable Debug, so you could play with working MCM and no debug, or debug and everything else hardcore.

 

What baffles me is how you fix your game when it breaks. Because there's no Skyrim mod that doesn't get broken sometimes, and DD is extremely prone to adding broken items.

The number of quests that are only possible with setstage or additem is ... not a few ... and so on.

 

I -could- make it so hardcore mode means followers won't remove items for you, but that seems unnecessary. You can just set a high price for it. More debt and more deals that way.

[Bratty Cheeks - RMCW]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

There's no need, it's easier for me to do than merge.

 

I could add a standalone button to disable Debug, so you could play with working MCM and no debug, or debug and everything else hardcore.

That would be awesome thank you!

 

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

What baffles me is how you fix your game when it breaks. Because there's no Skyrim mod that doesn't get broken sometimes, and DD is extremely prone to adding broken items.

The number of quests that are only possible with setstage or additem is ... not a few ... and so on.

 

I -could- make it so hardcore mode means followers won't remove items for you, but that seems unnecessary. You can just set a high price for it. More debt and more deals that way.

I avoid any incomplete mods that end up requiring me to use setstage or additem or have fixed the issues that cause them to break. I have gotten rid of any issues that require the use of console. Rarely a bug pops up now but I save often and fix it when I find it. I never have issues with DD since I identified everything that could break it.

 

Another suggestion that would make DF even better IMO:

An option to toggle off the deal extension deal when you have maxed out your deals. I found I would often exploit it. Instead, with it disabled, your follower could say something like "I'm not making any more deals with you until you have paid off the ones you have."

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, RMCW said:

I never have issues with DD since I identified everything that could break it.

Does that mean you rewrote the main API in DD so it locks correctly using C++?

 

Please post!

 

I have an ambition to add this to DF to work around the "not allowed to patch DD files" nonsense. The problems lie in the API, there's nothing to stop a mod implementing their own versions of them, but you can't just patch the DD file - which would be by far the easiest way to solve the problem.

 

The main API is the primary cause of misapplied items, and Kimy was well aware of the bugs, even before I pointed them out.

I don't know if any of this got fixed in DD5. Haven't looked at that yet.

If it is, then I can probably avoid having to write a fix for it.

 

As the existing DD4.X problems are largely caused by DD itself, it's hard to say that any other mods are to blame.

The only time a mod is to blame is when it uses the function to add an item that takes both the inventory and render item, then specifies mismatched items.

Some older versions of DF might do this for items applied by certain scripts; I think they are all OK now.

 

Nevertheless, just adding items via the MCM in DD, you're soon able to get one to break, and this invariably occurs when DD is trying to add multiple items in a short time-frame, even though they have no slot clash. The locking mechanic there is fallible, and there are some other issues with flags that can be specified that don't really do what you'd expect. It introduces a possibility of clashing when there wasn't even a need for it. DD should "lock" based on target slot, and thus there would hardly ever be lock conflicts at all. As things stand the locking isn't atomic, and just causes more trouble than it solves.

 

Mods that frequently exercise this bug - because they add multiple items at once: Devious Lore, DCL, Laura's Shop, Slaverun Reloaded, and Deviously Vanilla.

Adding even a single item can break if the item is one of the faulty ones in DD. Some gags and hoods are broken. The effect is the same, but it's a different bug.

 

8 hours ago, RMCW said:

An option to toggle off the deal extension deal when you have maxed out your deals. I found I would often exploit it. Instead, with it disabled, your follower could say something like "I'm not making any more deals with you until you have paid off the ones you have."

As that's an area I'm working on now, I'll consider it.

That was added a long time ago by Lozeak to solve the problem of "not enough deals", especially in "endless mode".

 

Something needs to do that job. I added something similar to the modular deals, the "deep debt" deal, but that can be disabled.

 

It needs a different way to upgrade a deal to make it worse without being a significantly different deal, that would work for all deals is needed.

That's what deal extension is doing right now.

 

Also, the punishment can't be enslavement related, as it has to work in endless mode where there is no enslavement.

 

Maybe some kind of aggressive loot confiscation? I don't have any great ideas for this unfortunately.

[Bratty Cheeks - RMCW]

42 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Does that mean you rewrote the main API in DD so it locks correctly using C++?

Nah I haven't lol. I have had the issue with broken DD before that you outlined, but I haven't had that in a very long time.

42 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Nevertheless, just adding items via the MCM in DD, you're soon able to get one to break, and this invariably occurs when DD is trying to add multiple items in a short time-frame, even though they have no slot clash.

I guess I just must not be using anything that is overly aggressive with DD equipping. I do use DCL but I turned the equipping settings way down in MCM so it isn't chucking a bunch of items on you at once. My CPU is pretty fast too which may be helping with the problem.

 

If this problem isn't fixed with DD5 I'd be a bit disappointed tbh if it is well known. Hope Kimy has fixed it.

 

42 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

not allowed to patch DD files

Hmm, does that mean I shouldn't have uploaded a patch for DD MCM? I don't read the threads that much.

 

42 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Maybe some kind of aggressive loot confiscation? I don't have any great ideas for this unfortunately.

I can probably come up with a lot of ideas in this regard.

 

Perhaps a new state for example, where your owner really starts punishing you until you sort yourself out. Gives you whippings and particularly humiliating events that happen under the new state. It's not a full enslavement state like the enslavement stuff currently, more a SORT YOURSELF OUT NOW state haha.

[Lupine00]

On 12/18/2020 at 3:44 PM, RMCW said:

My CPU is pretty fast too which may be helping with the problem.

Doesn't help at all. It's a result of race conditions and a faster computer just makes the races run faster, but they still run ... together.

Comparing my main PC, which is close to all the fastest parts you can have right now vs my old dev PC, which is a laptop potato, with all the limitations that come from for-mobile parts, the issues are the same.

What other mods you have will have more impact.

On 12/18/2020 at 3:44 PM, RMCW said:

Gives you whippings and particularly humiliating events that happen under the new state.

Hmm, well that requires writing new events, and the pattern so far is that new events end up sucked into deals.

Not that it always has to be that way.

 

What else would there be besides whippings?

[Leo Bonhart]

Cool mod, great job.

PS who took the sceenshots, very nice.

[Bratty Cheeks - RMCW]

 

On 12/19/2020 at 6:51 AM, Lupine00 said:

What else would there be besides whippings?

 

In my thoughts it's about tone. Not enslaved but rather in deep debt. So your idea of loot confiscation may work, after outright taking any gold. Somewhat complicated by whether gold control is being used or not. Could be a good idea to tie gold control to the deep debt state as well as different events. 

 

Maybe whoring, character has option to say no but may make follower angry. There are already a couple of whoring quests within the mod for when enslaved and the whore deal., but different to those. I guess it should be about follower trying to get as much gold as possible out of you while not being completely forced.

 

There could be a time limit started when you reach higher debt level before you are enslaved. Your follower tells you that they are not making any more deals with you and you best pay them back in the next X days or they are enslaving you. So you have a bit of a buffer compared with current. That would activate the new state for that time period or until you pay back your current debt (not deals). If you have never become enslaved toggled, it would stay in the new state and never advance into the full slavery state. 

 

While in deep debt, your debt may still increase. your follower would keep trying to drive it down themselves with the new events. Maybe they could be like "While you are useless as an adventurer and I don't seem likely to get my gold soon, if you do X then I'll knock 2000 off your debt.". Each refusal adding to followers anger or something like that.

 

Just thinking off the top of my head but can give it some proper thought if you like.

 

On 12/19/2020 at 8:07 AM, Adetu said:

Some nice ideas for my mod. Only for the list i always thought "killall" was not forgotten the way it is done.

When typing in "killall" in console the already forbidden "kill" was detected instead .

But when it is already included in the tweaked esp now, better do not change again.

 

 

Ah ok, missed that - thanks. Very good mod, look forward to seeing any future developments.

 

10 hours ago, Samurai747 said:

Cool mod, great job.

PS who took the sceenshots, very nice.

 

Thanks, Tifa did those, see first page of the thread.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, RMCW said:

While in deep debt, your debt may still increase. your follower would keep trying to drive it down themselves with the new events. Maybe they could be like "While you are useless as an adventurer and I don't seem likely to get my gold soon, if you do X then I'll knock 2000 off your debt.". Each refusal adding to followers anger or something like that.

Doing something like linking a reduced willpower cap, or gold control to deep debt is interesting.

I guess it would need to be optional, as many see deep debt as a problem enough on its own.

 

My thinking is that the follower wants you to take the deep debt deal. It's a way of keeping you earning for them long-term.

Paying back the deep debt isn't what they're after, because they're always adding daily debt.

 

I'd see most value for "really punishing" behaviors when connected to "endless mode" which lacks teeth, and enslavement, which can always be better.

In the context of those states, whipping would make perfect sense.

 

I've wanted whipping during enslavement for ages, but I spent ages trying to make a whipping scene that felt "worthy" and ended up never using that.

It wasn't as worthy as I wanted. I wish there was a proper animation for it.

Somebody made a mod of spanks and whipping animations at the start of the year, but it's not better than existing solutions, perhaps worse.

 

Gold control has a lot of willpower mechanics around it now, so I think that's probably too fiddly to change and has diminishing returns.

 

 

The idea of delaying enslavement and having a pre-enslavement or grace period would be a good mechanic.

It used to be a big problem that debt would tick over and suddenly the follower would go crazy at you.

The forced deals mechanic stopped a lot of that, but it can still happen.

 

I don't see that having much in new behaviors though. It's just a period where the follower is giving you a chance to pay off the debt and warning you enslavement is coming.

During that period, you could actively submit to the follower and just get enslaved right away. At the end, enslavement is forced unless you pay off the debt before you get there.

That isn't making anything harder though, quite the opposite.

 

 

Normally, in DF, everything that can be done is a deal, and that's just the obvious way to do it.

When it comes to enslavement, that rule can be abandoned.

 

There are (in theory) no deals during enslavement, so the follower can do anything.

I don't see that they should care about you increasing your debt in that case. 

It's not a problem. What matters is whether you are making a profit for them.

 

Mechanics for all that are effectively non-existent, and often inverted.

i.e. the follower offers you for sex, for free, or for very low sums. I never really got this, but changing it is quite a lot of work.

 

I think the "future" of DF is for it to hand enslaved followers off to another mod.

That mod could then be a new, cleanly architected slavery mod, SD+, NeoSubLola, SS auction, or whatever.

Fixing the slavery mechanics in DF is just pain because internally DF is a mess of half-used quests, randomly named scripts, weird spellings and non-DRY designs - it's painful and slow to work on. An external hand-off (and possibly hand-back) would be easier to develop.

[Kimy]

On 12/17/2020 at 8:02 PM, Lupine00 said:

I don't know if any of this got fixed in DD5. Haven't looked at that yet.

 

Then stop whining about it all over the place and have a look at the DD5 change log. Because I rewrote the entire core API in DD5.

[Vyllenor]

Any chances for the escape overhaul to get tweaks? Minigames are more fun than default system, but it does make escaping a lot easier

 

[Samson Nite]

SE version please !!!!!!!

[dennis102503]

Is there any chance of getting an update for the newer versions of Devious Followers. The MCM is different in the newer versions and gets messed up.

[moose1]

Does anyone know if it's possible to edit the DD settings through the notepad cfg file? I've been looking at this section...

 

; Config Variables
Int Property EscapeDifficulty = 4 Auto
Int Property CooldownDifficulty = 4 Auto
Int Property KeyDifficulty = 4 Auto
Bool Property GlobalDestroyKey = True Auto
Bool Property DisableLockJam = False Auto

[lcewolf]

Thank you for you mod, i use it for a long time.

 

Spoiler

I found a way to bypass it. When you click on a barrel/NPC/Chest... you can use the command additem without be blocked. Could-you block those function as well.

 

[Allyson Wonderland]

On 7/30/2021 at 10:47 PM, Samson Nite said:

SE version please !!!!!!!

I second that.