Help me with my CTD problem [log included]

[Foxtrot6]

So I'm 250 saves into a playthrough and out of nowhere I keep getting a CTD and I'm worried I'm just going to have to start over again. I have crash fixes and Load game CTD Fix set up. I don't have that many animations set up either. I'm hoping someone can tell me where to start looking based off my log.

 

Here's my load order:

Spoiler

#Mod_Priority,#Mod_Name,#Mod_Version
"0000","Unmanaged: Bashed Patch, 0",""
"0001","DLC: HighResTexturePack03",""
"0002","DLC: HighResTexturePack02",""
"0003","DLC: HighResTexturePack01",""
"0004","DLC: HearthFires",""
"0005","DLC: Dragonborn",""
"0006","DLC: Dawnguard",""
"0007","skse_1_07_03","d2020.5.22.0"
"0008","Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch","3.0.15.0"
"0009","SKYRIM Save Cleaner","1.9.1.0"
"0010","PapyrusUtil_v33","d2020.7.7.0"
"0011","ConsolePlugin_3","d2020.7.7.0"
"0012","Load Game CTD Fix","1.0.0.0"
"0013","Climates Of Tamriel-V","5.0.0.0"
"0014","Rudy_ENB_Water_Tweaks_RW2_COT_VW","d2020.4.26.0"
"0015","Vividian - Weather Patch CoT","d2020.6.12.0"
"0016","Skyrim_Particle_Patch_for_ENB--All-In-One","d2020.6.12.0"
"0017","Skyrim_Subsurface_Scattering_Patch_for_ENB","d2020.6.12.0"
"0018","Skyrim_Ice_Shader_Fix","d2020.6.12.0"
"0019","Skyrim_HighPoly_Fern_Meshes","d2020.6.12.0"
"0020","MX_Grass","d2020.6.12.0"
"0021","MX_ForestGrass01","d2020.6.12.0"
"0022","Realistic Water Two","1.11.0.0"
"0023","Realistic Water Two - ENB Textures","1.11.0.0"
"0024","Immersive First Person View","3.4.0.0"
"0025","Alternate Start - Live Another Life","3.1.7.0"
"0026","No bethesda Intro","1.0.0.0"
"0027","Calientes Beautiful Bodies Edition -CBBE-","3.4.0.0f"
"0028","FNIS Behavior 7_6 XXL","7.6.0.0"
"0029","FNIS Creature Pack 7.6","7.6.0.0"
"0030","FNIS Spells V5_0_1 -- ADD-ON for the spells","5.0.1.0"
"0031","BodySlide and Outfit Studio","5.0.7.0"
"0032","HDT Physics Extensions","14.28.0.0"
"0034","I Love Cleavage CBBE and 7B Oppai HDDT","8.0.0.0"
"0036","HDT HighHeels System","beta0.5"
"0037","RaceMenu","3.4.5.0"
"0038","ShowRaceMenu PreCacheKiller 1_3","1.3.0.0"
"0039","Zipsuit v1_0 - CBBE with TBBP","1.0.0.0"
"0040","SkyUI","5.1.0.0"
"0041","UIExtensions v1-2-0","1.2.0.0"
"0042","Crash Fixes v12 - Beta","d2020.6.28.0"
"0043","Mfg Console","1.1.0.0"
"0045","04 - Leyenda Skin 4.0 CBBE 4K","4.0.0.0"
"0046","Adorable Face","1.2.1.0"
"0047","YevMods - Makeup Pack - YMMP 4K","d2020.7.3.0"
"0048","Eyes of Aber v1.3","1.3.0.0"
"0049","SG Female Eyebrows","1.0.0.0"
"0050","KS Hairdos - Renewal","1.7.0.0"
"0051","New HDT Physics for KS-SG-HG Hairs","22012020.0.0.0"
"0052","Mighty Beasts - Werewolf","f1.04"
"0053","SOS - Schlongs of Skyrim - 3.00.004","d2020.7.4.0"
"0054","SOS_Leito_Schlongs_Addon v1.0.1","1.0.1.0"
"0055","SexLabFramework_v162_FULL","d2020.7.4.0"
"0056","SexLabMatchMaker.Rev7","d2020.7.4.0"
"0057","ZazAnimationPackV7","d2020.7.4.0"
"0058","Zaz Animation Pack CBBE V.8.0.[2017.11.19]","d2020.7.4.0"
"0059","Zap 8.0 Cosio BodySlideSupport","d2020.7.4.0"
"0060","Remodeled Armor CBBE Bodyslide HDT - Replacer","6.2.0.0"
"0061","Craftable Panties-25259-6-1","6.1.0.0"
"0062","CLAMS OF SKYRIM PROJECT Inni Outie Cbbe HDT Vagina 5.7","5.7.0.0"
"0063","SL Defeat v5.3.5","d2020.7.4.0"
"0064","Fuz Ro D-oh - Silent Voice","6.1.0.0"
"0065","Death Alternative - Your Money or Your Life","7.0.1.0"
"0066","Death Alternative - Captured","7.0.0.0"
"0067","SexLabAroused_V28b","d2020.7.4.0"
"0068","SLDialogues20200329","d2020.7.4.0"
"0069","Devious Devices Assets","3.0.0.0"
"0070","Devious Devices Integration","4.3.0.0"
"0071","Devious Devices Expansion","4.3.0.0"
"0072","AddItemMenu - Ultimate Mod Explorer","3.13.0.0a"
"0073","JContainers","3.3.0.0.RC.3"
"0074","SlaveTats-1.3.0-beta-2","d2020.7.7.0"
"0075","SlaveTatsEventsBridge01b","d2020.7.7.0"
"0076","Tattoo Pack Custom","d2020.7.7.0"
"0077","yps-Sound&TexturePack20200328","d2020.7.7.0"
"0078","SexLab-Hormones20200630","d2020.7.7.0"
"0079","CBBE-Hormones-Bodyslide","d2020.7.7.0"
"0080","Skyrim - Utility Mod 150","d2020.7.7.0"
"0081","Skyrim - Utility Mod 150 - UIE Patch","d2020.7.7.0"
"0082","Devious Devices - Equip 450","d2020.7.7.0"
"0083","SDPlus20200630","d2020.7.7.0"
"0084","SDResources20200630","d2020.7.7.0"
"0085","CT77_SD+_Slave_Outfit_(bodyslide)","d2020.7.7.0"
"0086","SD Cages 370","d2020.7.7.0"
"0087","SD Patches 345","d2020.7.7.0"
"0088","SD Customization Addons v7","d2020.7.7.0"
"0089","ImmerSlave-1.0","d2020.7.10.0"
"0090","Simple Slavery Plus Plus 6.2 [LE]","d2020.7.10.0"
"0091","hydra_slavegirls827_main","d2020.7.10.0"
"0092","hydra_slavegirls827_textures","d2020.7.10.0"
"0093","Deviously Enslaved Continued(v13.25.0)","d2020.7.10.0"
"0094","Deviously Enchanted Chests V2.24","d2020.7.10.0"
"0095","SLStories20200630","d2020.7.10.0"
"0096","SLStoriesDevious20200630","d2020.7.10.0"
"0097","(Bodyslide) SLStoriesDevious_milkharness (CT77_Body_HDT)","d2020.7.10.0"
"0098","Sexlab Parasites - KyneBlessing20200630","d2020.7.10.0"
"0099","Estrus Chaurus V4.37","d2020.7.10.0"
"0100","trapped-in-rubber-v0.53","d2020.7.10.0"
"0101","Devious Captures 2.9.0","2.8.0.0"
"0102","Deviously Helpless 1.15d","d2020.7.10.0"
"0103","SkyrimBound v1.2","d2020.7.10.0"
"0104","Devious Loading Screens (v2.7.0)","d2020.7.10.0"
"0105","Devious_Traps_v0.4b","d2020.7.10.0"
"0106","xazPrisonOverhaul - Patched 450","d2020.7.10.0"
"0107","SLAnimLoader-1.5","d2020.7.10.0"
"0108","Billyy's SLAL Animations 3.42","3.42.0.0"
"0109","MYSLALPACK v12.0","12.0.0.0"
"0110","SexLab Tools v3.0","d2020.7.10.0"
"0111","MoreNastyCritters_v12_08A","d2020.7.10.0"
"0112","HentaiCreatures_MNCv12","d2020.7.10.0"
"0113","XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended 4.67","4.67.0.0"
"0114","NSAP3.1","d2020.7.10.0"
"0115","Skyrim SexLab Toys v1.3","d2020.7.10.0"
"0116","AnimalMansionPlusNS_1.0","d2020.7.10.0"
"0117","SLAL Animations by Leito v1.6","1.6.0.0"
"0118","SexLab Pheromones1.3.3","d2020.7.10.0"
"0119","EZ2C DIALOGUE MENU - FULLY CONFIGURABLE --18466-v3-1","3.1.0.0"
"0120","CCAS v14d","d2020.7.10.0"
"0121","dcc-soulgem-oven-v310","d2020.7.10.0"
"0122","AngrimApprentice_v2_11","d2020.7.11.0"
"0123","Milk-Mod-Economy-Scripts-2020-02-04","4.0.0.0-02-2020"
"0124","Milk-Mod-Economy-Assets-LE-2019-06-04","4.0.0.0-06-2019"
"0125","Bodyslide MilkCuirass CBBE (Panties with holes +ZAP Collar)","d2020.7.11.0"
"0126","zdd ver. D amputation esp","d2020.7.10.0"
"0127","Namira's Goat Full RND Removed","d2020.7.11.0"
"0128","Namiras Skyrim","d2020.7.11.0"
"0129","Namiras Decorations 20170710","d2020.7.11.0"
"0130","Heretical Resources v1.51","d2020.7.11.0"
"0131","Heretical SlaveTatsPack v1.0","d2020.7.11.0"
"0132","Heretical Resources BB CBBE","d2020.7.11.0"
"0133","Immersive Plugs 20171120","d2020.7.11.0"
"0134","ZazExtensionPack-v1-08-forZap7AndTUFP-20170618-114339","d2020.7.11.0"
"0135","2_06_DeviousFramework_170328","d2020.7.11.0"
"0136","2_06_DfwSupport_170328","d2020.7.11.0"
"0137","SlaveGirls_Hydragorgon_827_Patch","d2020.7.11.0"
"0138","TUFP - Tara Ultimate Furniture Pack v1.3","d2020.7.11.0"
"0139","Arachnophobia 0.32","d2020.7.10.0"
"0140","DeviousFramework 2.06 + ZAZ Leash TUFP Patch","d2020.7.11.0"
"0141","Amputator Beta v0.7","d2020.7.11.0"
"0142","Beautiful Corpse","d2020.7.11.0"
"0143","display-model-v206","d2020.7.11.0"
"0144","Wolfclub 20171128 (Repacked)","d2020.7.23.0"
"0145","Wolfclub Bellystretcher CBBE HDT BodySlide","d2020.7.11.0"
"0146","SkoomaWhore1","d2020.7.11.0"
"0147","Wolfclub20160319 Obscure patch","d2020.7.11.0"
"0148","SexLabSkoomaWhore20160319 Obscure Patch","d2020.7.11.0"
"0149","DDi4Patch20180216 Obscure Patch","d2020.7.11.0"
"0150","Namira's_Goat_(No_RND) Cosmetic Update","d2020.7.11.0"
"0151","pchsImmersivePlugs HDT Patch","d2020.7.11.0"
"0152","Deadly Traps and Curses 0.8","d2020.7.11.0"
"0153","Rubber Facility","d2020.7.11.0"
"0154","SkyrimChainBeasts-v0.3.4-OldRim","0.3.4.0b"
"0155","ChainSound-Patch-For-v0.3.4","d2020.7.11.0"
"0156","BondageFurnitureWorld1.1.4","d2020.7.12.0"
"0157","Deviously Cursed Loot","8.5.0.0"
"0158","OneTweak","2.1.0.2"
"0159","KS Jewelry","1.0.0.0"
"0160","Kaw Claws-Colored Long Nails","1.0.0.0"
"0161","Equipable Stockings","d2020.8.7.0"
"0162","SOS Pubic Hair for Females Addon (AIO) 1.3b","d2020.8.7.0"
"0163","Chastity quest for YPS SLOT 50 V1.1","d2020.8.7.0"
"0164","zarias restraints","1.0.0.0"
"0165","yps-ImmersiveFashion(6.2.1)","d2020.7.7.0"
"0166","SOS - Equipable Schlong v0.3","d2020.8.8.0"
"0167","SOS - Racemenu Plugin v0.2","d2020.8.8.0"
"0168","SOS - Schlong Controller v0.2","d2020.8.8.0"
"0169","Suspicious Gold Starter 1.4.0 repacked","d2020.8.8.0"
"0170","The Mysterious Breeding Rooms 1.02","d2020.8.8.0"
"0171","SubmissiveLolaEsturk_089","d2020.8.8.0"
"0172","EggFactory35a","d2020.8.8.0"
"0173","BanneredMareImmersiveSexualPlayground V.8.01","d2020.8.8.0"
"0174","Azura's Club 1.0","d2020.8.8.0"
"0175","Kiras Adolrnment","d2020.8.8.0"
 

 

Papyrus.0.log

[Grey Cloud]

29 minutes ago, Foxtrot6 said:

I keep getting a CTD

Same location or different?

Try rolling back to a save from prior to the problem.

Have you tried cleaning the save?

[jorgen.klein]

is it the same safe you getting CTD on, if so, it may be that your save game is corrupted. Go one safe before any CTD started and fast travel to where it happened for the first time, if it then no CTD happens, your savegame was corrupted, (had that once too, could start it normally but at that point it crashed, when i used a previous savegame, no more CTD's) 1: savegame, 2: position in game, possible 2 mods that alter the same position or person. 3: mod load order... (loot could give an answer on that) 

[Foxtrot6]

32 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Same location or different?

Try rolling back to a save from prior to the problem.

Have you tried cleaning the save?

I guess I forgot to mention that. It seemed like it was just around riverwood but now even when I use the console to teleport to a different hold it still crashes. It seems to crash much more on exterior cells than it does on interiors but it crashes on interiors pretty commonly too.

 

I've cleaned the saves with both skyrim save cleaner and save game script cleaner. I also cleaned my master files before the run began. It seems like the problem has to do with being near npcs like at all. because for example my current save is inside of the riverwood trader at 4a.m. If I just wait 4 hours it'll work but immediately crash. If I go outside accross the road and speak to Alvor it'll crash. If it doesnt crash the second I go outside anyway. I've ran loot and FNIS multiple times. and I only have about 3k total animations.

 

I don't know if it has anything to do with it but I'm lvl 11 and was doing some side quests to get there. Now I finally went to helgen to start the main quest and I'm not sure if the game has a problem with that but I first noticed the problem when I tried to fast travel back to riverwood from helgen. 

 

I tried a bunch of previous saves. I have about 9 of them in riverwood alone but I end up with the same results no matter what. Crash fixes will occasionally tell me its a FootIK error but most of the crashes dont set off crash fixes at all. Speaking of I also have the memory allocation patch set up for my system specs.

 

I've got an Nvidia GTX 1050ti

An Intel i5 6 core

and 24gb of DDR4 Ram

if that helps at all. 

[Swe-DivX]

11 minutes ago, Foxtrot6 said:

I guess I forgot to mention that. It seemed like it was just around riverwood but now even when I use the console to teleport to a different hold it still crashes. It seems to crash much more on exterior cells than it does on interiors but it crashes on interiors pretty commonly too.

 

I've cleaned the saves with both skyrim save cleaner and save game script cleaner. I also cleaned my master files before the run began. It seems like the problem has to do with being near npcs like at all. because for example my current save is inside of the riverwood trader at 4a.m. If I just wait 4 hours it'll work but immediately crash. If I go outside accross the road and speak to Alvor it'll crash. If it doesnt crash the second I go outside anyway. I've ran loot and FNIS multiple times. and I only have about 3k total animations.

 

I don't know if it has anything to do with it but I'm lvl 11 and was doing some side quests to get there. Now I finally went to helgen to start the main quest and I'm not sure if the game has a problem with that but I first noticed the problem when I tried to fast travel back to riverwood from helgen. 

 

I tried a bunch of previous saves. I have about 9 of them in riverwood alone but I end up with the same results no matter what. Crash fixes will occasionally tell me its a FootIK error but most of the crashes dont set off crash fixes at all. Speaking of I also have the memory allocation patch set up for my system specs.

 

I've got an Nvidia GTX 1050ti

An Intel i5 6 core

and 24gb of DDR4 Ram

if that helps at all. 

This is 99% hydra_slavegirls. Its a overload with DD. Try to uninstall it. And do a clean save.

 

Go to a cell with no slaves. Save.

Now deactivate hydra_slavegirls,

Load save and save.

Clean the save.

And load the game.

Try to run city to city.

[jorgen.klein]

4Gb Vram isn't much, it seems to me, that the strain on your videocart is too much for it too handle, when I still had a 2Gb Gpu I had more often crashes especially on spots with more than 10 NPC's if you have certain HDT physics active it gets even worse.. in your case it may get way better if you disable the high resolution packs you have active and if that isn't enough to set your settings to medium.. resolution on 1366x 768 (16/10 ratio). Based on your story, it is most likely a Graphics Issue, having said that, it may also be, that (depending on how old your GPU is) it may as well be in a dying state.. https://geeks3d.com/furmark/ may help you determine in what condition your GPU is, because if a GPU must perform beyond its capabilities.. you will run into trouble.. like loss of VRAM capacity, processing capacity and then it simply wont start, or the game will try to run on onboard graphics... which is not what you want

[travelmedic]

I've read that the official hi-res texture packs are poorly optimized, but have never used them myself.  Maybe try removing them to see what happens.

[donttouchmethere]

52 minutes ago, Swe-DivX said:

This is 99% hydra_slavegirls. Its a overload with DD. Try to uninstall it. And do a clean save.

 

Makes only sense if a Corsec DD patch is installed, Hydra_slavegirls come with ZAP devices

Newest Corsec Hyrda patch would be non DD devices

 

I use the DD Hydras and don't get any crashes from those.

They need the MM1 tweak for less conversations tho or they steal too many quest alias.

[Grey Cloud]

45 minutes ago, jorgen.klein said:

4Gb Vram isn't much, it seems to me, that the strain on your videocart is too much for it too handl

4GB of VRAM is more than enough to play Skyrim. Even 2GB is enough if you do not go mad with textures and such.

 

Let's start at the beginning before the hysteria gets out of control

 

You said you are on about 250 saves on this play through but has this set up  worked previously? That is, have you changed any mods between your last play through and this one?

 

I also use Hydra Slavegirls and have the three DD mods installed without any issues.

 

To what 'memory allocation patch' do you refer?

 

Do you have the stability tools installed?

 

Those you do have, check that they are configured correctly.

 

Crash fixes
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/72725/

SKSE Plugin Preloader
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/75795/?

ENBoost (If you are using an ENB preset then you should already have this but it can be used without a preset).
https://wiki.step-project.com/ENBoost

Bethini (This will set your Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPrefs.ini files)
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/69787

Load Game CTD Fix (Stops Infinite Loading Screen (ILS)
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/85443/

The above tools will sort out your memory management and stop 99% of CTDs.

 

[donttouchmethere]

Actually I don't see how that LO wouldn't crash. There are too many old mods and conflicting mods.

First thing is to check if you savegame has too many active scripts running. If you can open your savegame still with save tools and not with Fallrim tools there might be also an issue with crash fix v12 not installed correctly.

 

 

"0153","Rubber Facility","d2020.7.11.0"

> It never got finished, it's risky to use in any LO for a serious game. Good chance that it will cause a CTD near Riverwood, depending how much it conflicts with the area.

 

"0057","ZazAnimationPackV7","d2020.7.4.0"
"0058","Zaz Animation Pack CBBE V.8.0.[2017.11.19]","d2020.7.4.0"
"0059","Zap 8.0 Cosio BodySlideSupport","d2020.7.4.0"

"0134","ZazExtensionPack-v1-08-forZap7AndTUFP-20170618-114339","d2020.7.11.0"

"0138","TUFP - Tara Ultimate Furniture Pack v1.3","d2020.7.11.0"

> This combination is also rather experimental and not the best idea for a serious game.

> Are you combining ZAP 7 + 8 + TUFP there? That calls for an unstable game.

> Especially if you combine it with mods that need a working ZAP like:

"0154","SkyrimChainBeasts-v0.3.4-OldRim","0.3.4.0b"

"0156","BondageFurnitureWorld1.1.4","d2020.7.12.0"

 

"0069","Devious Devices Assets","3.0.0.0"
"0070","Devious Devices Integration","4.3.0.0"
"0071","Devious Devices Expansion","4.3.0.0"

"0149","DDi4Patch20180216 Obscure Patch","d2020.7.11.0"

> Patching DDi 4.3 with an patch for DDi 4.0 is a bad idea, especially in an LO with so many mods that relay on a working DDi

 

"0135","2_06_DeviousFramework_170328","d2020.7.11.0"
"0136","2_06_DfwSupport_170328","d2020.7.11.0"

> this is old and has many glitches, to combine it with other mods that effect furniture and DDi is like... if you don't get crashes you get clusterfucks... a lot

 

Basically what will happen: Your ZAP/DD Frameworks are messed up from patches or experiments and this will result in broken mod events.

You have enough mods in that one LO for multiple experimental LOs + maybe one serious LO

If you use MO, I would recommend to make multiple profiles and test some combinations out before even trying to throw them all together.

If you check your saves with that LO you will see regularly stuck scripts from failed mod events.

Some things just wont work well, like

SCB put you into a ZAP furniture => it gets locked by DFWS => DFWS slavers might use a leash on you => but still stuck in ZAP with SCB around => CLUSTERFUCK!

Bondage furniture world locks you in a ZAP furniture => it is a deadly furniture with ZEP effect => you die while BFW scene is running => CLUSTERFUUUCK

Any quest scene with furniture => DFWS locks you in => quest scene needs you to leave the furniture => CLUSTERFUCK!

POP scene is running but ZAP furniture are compromised => either you die or the furniture doesn't work => Clusterfuuuck!

DEC approach while you are locked in ZAP furniture because of DFWS => you get teleported away while locked in that furniture to SD owner or SS++ => Clusterfuck!

[jorgen.klein]

12 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

4GB of VRAM is more than enough to play Skyrim. Even 2GB is enough if you do not go mad with textures and such.

 

Let's start at the beginning before the hysteria gets out of control

 

You said you are on about 250 saves on this play through but has this set up  worked previously? That is, have you changed any mods between your last play through and this one?

 

I also use Hydra Slavegirls and have the three DD mods installed without any issues.

 

To what 'memory allocation patch' do you refer?

 

Do you have the stability tools installed?

 

Those you do have, check that they are configured correctly.

 

Crash fixes
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/72725/

SKSE Plugin Preloader
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/75795/?

ENBoost (If you are using an ENB preset then you should already have this but it can be used without a preset).
https://wiki.step-project.com/ENBoost

Bethini (This will set your Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPrefs.ini files)
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/69787

Load Game CTD Fix (Stops Infinite Loading Screen (ILS)
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/85443/

The above tools will sort out your memory management and stop 99% of CTDs.

 

I respect your opinion, but I have seen system crashes with LOADs of mods and GPU that were driven to the limit.. my rule is "no spare, no game (after 2 years)"  and I built systems.. that last far longer than that....

[Tlam99]

I have lots of mods installed incl ZAZ and DD, 7490 active scripts in save. Minimum VRAM usage is 6GB 1920x1200.

If I have 5 followers active, I need to restart after 10 fast travels even with 32GB Ram and 11GB VRam.

Two followers, no problem for hours.

Your LO looks also quite script loaded, I tend to Jorgens explanation in combination with Pickles list of bad combinations.

[Grey Cloud]

20 minutes ago, T-lam said:

I have lots of mods installed incl ZAZ and DD, 7490 active scripts in save. Minimum VRAM usage is 6GB 1920x1200.

Which proves what? That you run SE?

[Harvald]

Ok, I am German and perhaps you get unwished changes by using mine but this Skyrim ini Files are extremly tweaked for performance on a I5/I7 processor.Skyrim-ini-files.7z you should have a look on the second line "sLanguage=GERMAN" and change it to your national language.

 

Then back up your ini files, you find under Documents/my Games/Skyrim und replace them with these. What his tweak does? It leads the prerendering to the others not used cores of your processor.

[Guest]

More people that know nothing about VRAM, talking about... VRAM.

 

Fun fact: This 2K-1K setup has gone through two GPUs, but is pretty much the same. One was a high-range GPU with a 3GB VRAM chip and my current one is a mid-range GPU with a 6 GB VRAM chip, but they both gave me the same performance because their processing power is about the same (current one is slightly faster) and 3 GB of VRAM was enough to keep the stuff that needed to be rendered for frames within the current area cached, and even if it wasn't, It would just force the CPU to stream the data back from RAM to the GPU (paging), which wouldn't cause a crash, just extra overhead (stuttering while moving the camera is a common symptom of paging).

 

Web search: "What is VRAM and how does it work"

[Tlam99]

27 minutes ago, Hawk9969 said:

More people that know nothing about VRAM, talking about... VRAM.

 

Fun fact: This 2K-1K setup has gone through two GPUs, but is pretty much the same. One was a high-range GPU with a 3GB VRAM chip and my current one is a mid-range GPU with a 6 GB VRAM chip, but they both gave me the same performance because their processing power is about the same (current one is slightly faster) and 3 GB of VRAM was enough to keep the stuff that needed to be rendered for frames within the current area cached, and even if it wasn't, It would just force the CPU to stream the data back from RAM to the GPU (paging), which wouldn't cause a crash, just extra overhead (stuttering while moving the camera is a common symptom of paging).

 

Web search: "What is VRAM and how does it work"

 

[Tlam99]

And all this paging into slow ram has no influence on loading, executing scripts and on rendering, or?

I realize when paging starts, a sign that a restart is recommended.

If the cpu becomes busy with all this overhead tasks and is already running on limit to handle all the scripts and physics a crash is not unexpected.

PS:you are right with this more people that know nothing about VRAM are talking about it 

[Guest]

Paging happens all the time, it's not an error. Imagine if the game cached all of its data into RAM. You know those loading screens? Disk to RAM paging. In fact, most of the stuttering from paging comes from Disk to RAM paging, guess what component of your PC is doing this. Best way to reduce it? A faster non-volatile storage (SSD) or a faster volatile storage (RAMDisk). PCIe 3 bus design allows for very high transfer rates and how much VRAM do you need for caching assets to render the same kind of frame over and over again? VRAM usage reported by softwares aren't the same as OS managed RAM, where you can see blocks that aren't allocated to individual processes. The GPU doesn't allocate blocks to processes and it just overwrites older unused blocks when new data gets cached.

Ever heard of CPU SRAM caches? Do you know what purpose they serve?

 

You also failed to account for context switches, aka, processes queueing for CPU use, which just as paging, happens all the time. Even from Skyrim alone, there is context switches in the form of thread context switching from its own threads.

 

None of what you've mentioned would lead to a crash, just higher response times by having to wait for the render thread to finish streaming its data to the GPU. More over, the Creation Engine (like most game engines) will limit the amount of CPU time certain components (scripting, rendering, etc) have per frame, as to prevent the aforementioned higher response times between components of the engine.

 

Finally, my over 5 years old CPU is still bottlenecked by the GPU I've just bought by the end of the last year. The game is very GPU intensive (more so with mods that make the GPU process and render higher resolution frames) and my render thread remains waiting for the GPU to finish for significant amounts of time, with 3 or 6 GB of VRAM.

 

Restarting your game because of paging is stupid; paging will happen again as soon as you launch it again. The reason to restart Skyrim after a few hours is because of accumulated memory leaks, which Skyrim does seem to have quite a bit.

[Tlam99]

We talk about vram paging, not normal ram.

If vram is limited, too small, paging into ram starts.

Either via cpu or via runtimes virtuell directly.

This paging is the main reason to fragment the ram on too small vram systems.

With a 2gb vram setup one must restart more often compared to etc 4gb to have a non fragmented ram back.

Otherwise paging to disk starts, even a ssd is significantly slower than dram.

If the system starts to stutter because  of starting paging, try a fast travel.....

 

[Foxtrot6]

20 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

4GB of VRAM is more than enough to play Skyrim. Even 2GB is enough if you do not go mad with textures and such.

 

Let's start at the beginning before the hysteria gets out of control

 

You said you are on about 250 saves on this play through but has this set up  worked previously? That is, have you changed any mods between your last play through and this one?

 

I also use Hydra Slavegirls and have the three DD mods installed without any issues.

 

To what 'memory allocation patch' do you refer?

 

Do you have the stability tools installed?

 

Those you do have, check that they are configured correctly.

 

Crash fixes
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/72725/

SKSE Plugin Preloader
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/75795/?

ENBoost (If you are using an ENB preset then you should already have this but it can be used without a preset).
https://wiki.step-project.com/ENBoost

Bethini (This will set your Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPrefs.ini files)
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/69787

Load Game CTD Fix (Stops Infinite Loading Screen (ILS)
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/85443/

The above tools will sort out your memory management and stop 99% of CTDs.

 

Okay I've got a lot to reply too so here goes:

 

Yes I've added a few mods throughout the playthrough but I haven't removed any. When I've added mods I've made saves before installing them and then play tested them for a couple hours before moving on with the playthrough. Everything has been pretty stable up until this. I'd get a load CTD about every 20 loads and I'd just have to reload the save and it would work. I've also cleaned my saves everytime I add anything. I also backed up and deleted some of the saves so I only have about 15 of them in there now to see if that helped which it didn't

 

The memory allocation patch I was talking about was the one from crash fixes. I also have the SKSE Preloader, ENBoost and Load game CTD Fis. I just installed Load Game CTD Fix to try and solve this problem though the other day. I've made sure everything is configured properly. I will try Bethini though. I've never heard of it. But I've already tweaked my inis before starting the run and haven't had the need to mess with them since.

 

20 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

Actually I don't see how that LO wouldn't crash. There are too many old mods and conflicting mods.

First thing is to check if you savegame has too many active scripts running. If you can open your savegame still with save tools and not with Fallrim tools there might be also an issue with crash fix v12 not installed correctly.

 

 

"0153","Rubber Facility","d2020.7.11.0"

> It never got finished, it's risky to use in any LO for a serious game. Good chance that it will cause a CTD near Riverwood, depending how much it conflicts with the area.

 

"0057","ZazAnimationPackV7","d2020.7.4.0"
"0058","Zaz Animation Pack CBBE V.8.0.[2017.11.19]","d2020.7.4.0"
"0059","Zap 8.0 Cosio BodySlideSupport","d2020.7.4.0"

"0134","ZazExtensionPack-v1-08-forZap7AndTUFP-20170618-114339","d2020.7.11.0"

"0138","TUFP - Tara Ultimate Furniture Pack v1.3","d2020.7.11.0"

> This combination is also rather experimental and not the best idea for a serious game.

> Are you combining ZAP 7 + 8 + TUFP there? That calls for an unstable game.

> Especially if you combine it with mods that need a working ZAP like:

"0154","SkyrimChainBeasts-v0.3.4-OldRim","0.3.4.0b"

"0156","BondageFurnitureWorld1.1.4","d2020.7.12.0"

 

"0069","Devious Devices Assets","3.0.0.0"
"0070","Devious Devices Integration","4.3.0.0"
"0071","Devious Devices Expansion","4.3.0.0"

"0149","DDi4Patch20180216 Obscure Patch","d2020.7.11.0"

> Patching DDi 4.3 with an patch for DDi 4.0 is a bad idea, especially in an LO with so many mods that relay on a working DDi

 

"0135","2_06_DeviousFramework_170328","d2020.7.11.0"
"0136","2_06_DfwSupport_170328","d2020.7.11.0"

> this is old and has many glitches, to combine it with other mods that effect furniture and DDi is like... if you don't get crashes you get clusterfucks... a lot

 

Basically what will happen: Your ZAP/DD Frameworks are messed up from patches or experiments and this will result in broken mod events.

You have enough mods in that one LO for multiple experimental LOs + maybe one serious LO

If you use MO, I would recommend to make multiple profiles and test some combinations out before even trying to throw them all together.

If you check your saves with that LO you will see regularly stuck scripts from failed mod events.

Some things just wont work well, like

SCB put you into a ZAP furniture => it gets locked by DFWS => DFWS slavers might use a leash on you => but still stuck in ZAP with SCB around => CLUSTERFUCK!

Bondage furniture world locks you in a ZAP furniture => it is a deadly furniture with ZEP effect => you die while BFW scene is running => CLUSTERFUUUCK

Any quest scene with furniture => DFWS locks you in => quest scene needs you to leave the furniture => CLUSTERFUCK!

POP scene is running but ZAP furniture are compromised => either you die or the furniture doesn't work => Clusterfuuuck!

DEC approach while you are locked in ZAP furniture because of DFWS => you get teleported away while locked in that furniture to SD owner or SS++ => Clusterfuck!

I know combining all these script heavy mods is bad but I wanted all that added functionality in one run. I tried to slowly add things in like I explained above so that if I ran into any conflicts I could handle them more easily. But I hadn't added any mods in a while when these crashes started. When the events you listed happen I can usually correct problems with either the console or the MCM. But my save might just be slowly breaking down and if thats the case I'm probably screwed. Whats the most likely culprit here? I'm hoping removing a mod or two will resurrect my save but I cant tell what exactly is causing the crash. I haven't had any issues opening my saves in both my save cleaners. But if there's things you think I should try removing or changing the LO of I'll try whatever. I'm just not even sure where to start.

 

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, T-lam said:

...

Keep talking out of your ass from stuff that you've zero knowledge of instead of searching and reading on "What is VRAM and how does it work".

 

Saying you will crash because you are out of VRAM is a complete disregard for swapping and is ALMOST the same as saying your program will crash because your 8 MB SRAM cache ran out of space and started pulling data from the RAM. While the communication between CPU and RAM is much faster than CPU and PCIe, VRAM is also much bigger than a CPU cache, which means swapping is much rarer.

More over, you don't know what memory fragmentation is and at the same time also disregard the fact that the GPU won't allocate memory for processes, just overwriting older blocks as it needs to.

Imagine that GPUs designed for 1080p (Full HD) gaming had 3 to 3.5 GB of VRAM, just imagine (GTX 780 and GTX 970). LOL!

 

And finally, the only way that you can fine control the GPU and its components is via a CUDA/OpenCL supported card and its API. Most games won't ever use it because they don't need to turn the GPU into a general purpose processor, crypto miners in the other hand do.

 

As I've said before to another layman pretending to know what he was talking about... I dare you to show me Skyrim's VRAM related crashes.

Imagine me, previously running this same setup (1080p) with 8 GB of DDR3 and 3GB of GDDR5 and NEVER had memory related crashes or memory related performance degradation.

Guess that's the difference between someone who knows what he is doing vs someone who pretends to know what he is doing.

 

This is my last post on this subject. People have free access to the internet, they can just spend some time reading on VRAM themselves and drawing their own conclusions rather than relying on idiots online to tell you stuff (myself included).

 

P.S. Obviously that SSD is much slower than DRAM (every other bus is), when did I say otherwise? But for most people, it's not viable to create a RAMDisk for your Skyrim installation after every boot, more so with a heavily modded setup with hundreds of GBs of data. SSDs are currently the best solution for storing large amounts of non-volatile data.

[Tlam99]

26 minutes ago, Hawk9969 said:

Keep talking out of your ass from stuff that you've zero knowledge of instead of searching and reading on "What is VRAM and how does it work".

 

Saying you will crash because you are out of VRAM is a complete disregard for swapping and is ALMOST the same as saying your program will crash because your 8 MB SRAM cache ran out of space and started pulling data from the RAM. While the communication between CPU and RAM is much faster than CPU and PCIe, VRAM is also much bigger than a CPU cache, which means swapping is much rarer.

More over, you don't know what memory fragmentation is and at the same time also disregard the fact that the GPU won't allocate memory for processes, just overwriting older blocks as it needs to.

Imagine that GPUs designed for 1080p (Full HD) gaming had 3 to 3.5 GB of VRAM, just imagine (GTX 780 and GTX 970). LOL!

 

And finally, the only way that you can fine control the GPU and its components is via a CUDA/OpenCL supported card and its API. Most games won't ever use it because they don't need to turn the GPU into a general purpose processor, crypto miners in the other hand do.

 

As I've said before to another layman pretending to know what he was talking about... I dare you to show me Skyrim's VRAM related crashes.

Imagine me, previously running this same setup (1080p) with 8 GB of DDR3 and 3GB of GDDR5 and NEVER had memory related crashes or memory related performance degradation.

Guess that's the difference between someone who knows what he is doing vs someone who pretends to know what he is doing.

 

This is my last post on this subject. People have free access to the internet, they can just spend some time reading on VRAM themselves and drawing their own conclusions rather than relying on idiots online to tell you stuff (myself included).

 

P.S. Obviously that SSD is much slower than DRAM (every other bus is), when did I say otherwise? But for most people, it's not viable to create a RAMDisk for your Skyrim installation after every boot, more so with a heavily modded setup with hundreds of GBs of data. SSDs are currently the best solution for storing large amounts of non-volatile data.

Tx

 

[Foxtrot6]

56 minutes ago, Hawk9969 said:

Keep talking out of your ass from stuff that you've zero knowledge of instead of searching and reading on "What is VRAM and how does it work".

 

Saying you will crash because you are out of VRAM is a complete disregard for swapping and is ALMOST the same as saying your program will crash because your 8 MB SRAM cache ran out of space and started pulling data from the RAM. While the communication between CPU and RAM is much faster than CPU and PCIe, VRAM is also much bigger than a CPU cache, which means swapping is much rarer.

More over, you don't know what memory fragmentation is and at the same time also disregard the fact that the GPU won't allocate memory for processes, just overwriting older blocks as it needs to.

Imagine that GPUs designed for 1080p (Full HD) gaming had 3 to 3.5 GB of VRAM, just imagine (GTX 780 and GTX 970). LOL!

 

And finally, the only way that you can fine control the GPU and its components is via a CUDA/OpenCL supported card and its API. Most games won't ever use it because they don't need to turn the GPU into a general purpose processor, crypto miners in the other hand do.

 

As I've said before to another layman pretending to know what he was talking about... I dare you to show me Skyrim's VRAM related crashes.

Imagine me, previously running this same setup (1080p) with 8 GB of DDR3 and 3GB of GDDR5 and NEVER had memory related crashes or memory related performance degradation.

Guess that's the difference between someone who knows what he is doing vs someone who pretends to know what he is doing.

 

This is my last post on this subject. People have free access to the internet, they can just spend some time reading on VRAM themselves and drawing their own conclusions rather than relying on idiots online to tell you stuff (myself included).

 

P.S. Obviously that SSD is much slower than DRAM (every other bus is), when did I say otherwise? But for most people, it's not viable to create a RAMDisk for your Skyrim installation after every boot, more so with a heavily modded setup with hundreds of GBs of data. SSDs are currently the best solution for storing large amounts of non-volatile data.

Woah didn't mean to start a flame war....

 

I found this when googling stuff from my log:

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/107936-cannot-open-store-for-class-fnissmconfigmenu-missing-file/

 

It says its likely because of a removed scripted mod. I don't remember completely removing anything but I did remove and update some mods always cleaning my save after. In a 250 save run that kind of thing is gonna happen. I'll try a much older save and see if I have the same problems.

[Grey Cloud]

22 hours ago, Hawk9969 said:

"What is VRAM and how does it work"

Sadly the first two pages of hits failed to produce anything remotely close to explaining what VRAM is or how it works.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Sadly the first two pages of hits failed to produce anything remotely close to explaining what VRAM is or how it works.

You also want me to search this stuff for you?

 

DDG gave me two results; while both were using very laymen terms, they did point out dedicated VRAM today is used as a framebuffer and what a framebuffer is.

Stackoverflow and its sites are probably the best ones for this and https://gamedev.stackexchange.com is probably the one where you will get the most results about renderer APIs and their connection with VRAM. Here is one about data removal from VRAM, which is something that I've already discussed more than once that neither you nor the OS control it.