My concept for a new Combat Defeat mod

[Nymra]

I dont want to go into details about why I make my own thread about this. In short: I think Defeat and other mods with combat defeat scenarios lack severly, have zero compatibilty, are loaded with bugs, dated or just outdated or no longer maintained. This is true for Deviously Cursed Loot, Naked Dungeons, Dragonborn in Distress, Peril, Sexlab Defeat, Daymol/DA, MCG Skyrim, Sexlab Submit, Deviously Helpless, Deviously Enslaved and all the others I maybe forgot. They all do one thing quite good and then fail at all the rest, especially in working together in any meaningful way. 

What we need is a new framework that allows a dynamic approach and the addition of all the scenarios before, during and after combat defeat scenarios and that allow the addition of new content by different creators. Basically some kind of Simple Slavery for Defeat stuff or a new Defeat + DA system that actually works. 

 

IMPORTANT: THis is a pure concept and will have no code or coding ideas. And I do not wish the very same to be discussed here. There is already Lupins Tiny Defeat Blog where stuff like that is discussed. Here I want to discuss only the pure functionality, stuff like MCM options and overall compatbility. 

I am a communications designer and part of my profession is to make sure that stuff can be easily understood, used and also works in a way that can be easily customized towards different goals. 

1. The Surrender System
The most important thing basically and a new system compared to what we already have. Peril is the only mod that tries to do something like that, but sadly only very restrictive and without any options or compatiblity

We need several options here how the Combat Defeat will start. 
All should be configureable in MCM

 

The surrender System is based in the player beeing essential. So when HP reaches 0, the player will be on his knees like when it happens with NPCs. 

Now you can choose: 

 

When in Bleedout doing nothing

- Fight on (you get up with a wound that lowers your combat capability and you can continue to fight) -> this happens automatically when you do NOT press a hotkey

 

On Hotkey:

- Surrender (you submit to your enemies)

- Suicide (you decide to end your life here and now) 

- Talk your way out of it (will open dialogue microgame which has a built in system for speech skill and maybe offer bribe, sex or a miniquest that the PC can do for the enemeis
(not available for animals) 

- ...insert more ideas here

 

The hotkey can be configured to give us a popup (where we can choose the scenarios) or to directly surrender, suicide, talk, etc. 
You can also set the hotkey to automatic. So whenever you are in bleedout you automtically surrender. 

This should cover all approaches and more that current mods try to give us. 

2. The Pre-Rape System

This is stage 2 of the mod and should add ALOT of variety: 

 

PRE RAPE (triggers when player has suidiced or surrendered or failed to talk his way out) 
- Equip Devious Devices or not (might affect the keywords if filters are on) 
- Equip zap devices or not (this can be covered with SexlabUtil1 basically) -> play mini scene with player cowering, NPC comes close and plays an animation for equip
- Equip X item on scenes (tongues for example) 
- forced washing (the PC will play "Bathing in skyrim" at knifepoint before rape)

- whipping (with furniture, or anything. maybe even whipped while bathing/Striping

- stripping with animations (like in Submit or Defeat where the clothes are ripped from your body
-> allows partial stripping based on chances (random) and tries to play suitable animation (victim cowering, aggressors playing suitable animations)

- if you chose to suicide the NPCs will still strip your body (but with player posing "dead" 
- piss on victim

- dance and cheer 

...insert more ideas here: 

 

Creatures and Animals might have only reduced options or individual options based on their abilites

 

3. The Rape System

This should be pretty straight forward: 

 

- animation keywords for rape
- chain rape on/off + how many rape scenes minimum/maximum 
- gang rape on/off + how many actors (3P, 4P, 5P) 
- individual creatures on/off (for example exclude stuff like hares)
- furnitures on/off (and choose which furnitures to use. This will spawn a selected furniture and set the keyword to only use appropriate furniture animations
- WHEN SUICIDE was chosen the mod will automactially play NECRO keyword 

between rape scenes there will be a kneeling or laying animation (configurable in MCM) that allows device compatibility (offset)

 

4. The Post-Rape System

This is where things become a bit more complicated because of the dozens of scenarios already in existence or that I can think off.

 

At his point there is a second chance for:

- Bound (a second chance for DD and /or zap items to be equiped for post rape. 

After the Rape ends, the MCM should allow to give different % chances for the following:

- Sold to Simple Slavery

- DAYMOL (start one of the DA Scenarios
- Left alone (PC will recover where he was raped and the enemies will turn aggressive again
- Plaything (Deviously Helpless equivalent. The NPC will remain friendly but will rape the PC when it comes close (configureable timer in MCM when enemies turn hostile again)
- Captured  (Naked Dungeons variant. The NPC spawn a Zap furniture (from a MCM list) and bind the PC locally 

- executed - > the NPC will spawn an execution device from https://www.loverslab.com/topic/142563-pama%C2%B4s-deadly-furniture-scripts/ and kill the PC

- Killmove: the NPC play a killmove on the player 
- more ideas here

the captured scenarios should contain minigames that can make the player escape. I scripted such a thing for Naked Dungeons already. They should not be too complex and be based on health/stamina and require some time investment from the player. 

 

5. The Death System

This is a new idea I had based on the existence of Pamas Scripts. 
When the PC is suiciding, was killed by gallows/beheaded or killmoved there will be a new outcome based on "to be made" content. 

-> spawn naked random location without stuff and skill loss. (possibly get a mini quest based on the god that saved you)

-> awake in sovnguard and get some kind of choice / quest to get back into the mortal realm 
-> perma dead -> reload latest save 

-> awake in necromancer hall or as vampire or whatever. This part will require some cool mods to be integrated. 
For example Island of Mara has a "Oblivion" Scenario which is quite cool and could even work for this idea. 

The mod would be a standalone ESP but could hook into new scenarios that are added for the several stages. 
But I think the best would be if most of that is already integrated. 

From my limited scripting knowlegde all of this should be doable without problems because almost all of it is already done by other mods but not in a defeat related sense. 
Basically this is Defeat + some more elaborate scenes, more choices, hopefully less bugs and less messy MCM + integration of daymol, submit, peril/DiD and other stuff. 

It could even lead to a new SD+ with a local slavery outcome that is a bit more playable and less lengthy than the current SD+ 
(like bandits require you to cook like 20 food for them and have some occasinal fucking then you are auto released). 
Or they fuck you till its nighttime and then go to sleep so you can escape 
meaning punishing scenarios that still end sometime (everything else is covered already I think). 

 

@the Mod Makers
I know this is not helping you with coding, but maybe you can give your oppinion on that still. Of course we now require a modder or a team of such to start working on this. 
@osmelmc already has a first outline, @coffeeink approached it and codeserpent is doing his own thing with DiD and Peril (which sadly is both not compatible with NDUN or offers a way for at least me to play defeat scenarios) 

We need to get behind the same idea before we can start building up on something. From the @Lupine00 s Tiny Defeat thread I got the impression that nobody is really in the mood to step forward and start working together, which made me a bit sad because I could not do that myself (I can change existing mod and expand some, but thats it).

I dont even know what the issue is, since some modders not even want to make money with that, not even a tipjar
or maybe too few people even play combat defeat style skyrim? 

On the other hand the other thread about "what do you want for a new defeat" got very out of hand with very specific and abstract scenarios. Of course a new framework should even allow for that kind of stuff. Maybe even a "Rape less" system where the bandits just put you in bondage and let you walk in circles while laughing and cheering for an hour or two. 


So what is missing? How can I, can can the community help? 
 

 

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Nymra said:

From the @Lupine00 s Tiny Defeat thread I got the impression that nobody is really in the mood to step forward and start working together, which made me a bit sad because I could not do that myself (I can change existing mod and expand some, but thats it).

What was evident was that there was no belief that an open defeat framework would be supported by other modders.

 

This led to proposals for non-open frameworks, or semi-open not really frameworks, and other things, that may or may not happen.

 

We now have Peril, which incorporates some of the ideas from the Lupine Manifesto post, so ... let's see how that works out.

 

I remain interested in making a very tiny open defeat framework, but also questioning how much time I can spend on Skyrim.

[MilfSimmer]

I just use Defeat for the Tie up thing tbh, there is no other mod around that allows you to Tie Up permanently multiple enemies (max is 50 not rly much tbh for how big is the game) but still useful 

[afa]

The surrender system should be optional, since it probably doesn't work with non humans or won't work in the same way therefore is an extra layer on top.

And even among humans it will need to address different faction/relationship and spit out reasonable outcome and dialogue.

 

The "death" and rebirth concept is interesting, and I have no idea how/if it can work in terms of narrative and mechanics.

[alcurad90]

I would say this is not a "combat sex" framework but a "death alternative" framework. Though I'm not sure is it interesting to let the DragonBorn dies again and again and watch a long scene with out interaction.

 

But let's discuss it as a death alternativeframework. The main problem of combat related sex mod is that the sex scene of SL plays in real game time, which lead to lots of things uncontrollable. So first of all I think it's better just freeze the game when trigger the PC death scene and then pop the menu, and it's better to use something like a massive range peace spell to stop all the nearby combat stuff, something like TAI would be necessary, too.

 

Another problem is the followers, would he/she refuse the surrender command (on game play level) ? How to treat the animation? let the followers be raped too or they join the enemy and rape you? That will be quite interesting.

[iggypop1]

On 8/11/2020 at 4:42 AM, Lupine00 said:

What was evident was that there was no belief that an open defeat framework would be supported by other modders.

 

This led to proposals for non-open frameworks, or semi-open not really frameworks, and other things, that may or may not happen.

 

We now have Peril, which incorporates some of the ideas from the Lupine Manifesto post, so ... let's see how that works out.

 

I remain interested in making a very tiny open defeat framework, but also questioning how much time I can spend on Skyrim.

@Lupine00

Please make a non DD dependant defeat mod ........ simple simple simple.