Slaves of Tamriel Plus Plus

[jfraser]

9 minutes ago, tamai said:

 

thanks last questions, how do you get your name back and is there any othe way to escape other than the shovel like time served?

for the name, i think you'll just have to open racemenu and change it that way. not very immersive, i know XD

 

 

there is no other way to escape. if there was, i wouldn't have added the shovel - a way out was the one thing this mod really needed. 

[tamai]

3 hours ago, jfraser said:

for the name, i think you'll just have to open racemenu and change it that way. not very immersive, i know XD

 

 

there is no other way to escape. if there was, i wouldn't have added the shovel - a way out was the one thing this mod really needed. 

 

thats okay it was a fun immersive exp in a way either way ^^ only suggestion I have is to not use a shovel but instead use a spoon or fork and place it in the players cell and make it static immovable object so that you have to do 1 cycle of mining before getting out.

 

EDIT: being a fork/spoon is that it is small and might not be seen by the guards

Edited February 20, 2023 by tamai

[Public_Swan]

I got the MCM menu to show up but it's empty. What can I do to fix that?

[jfraser]

27 minutes ago, Public_Swan said:

I got the MCM menu to show up but it's empty. What can I do to fix that?

try the things from this post:

 

edit. wrong link. try again.

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/148864-slaves-of-tamriel-plus-plus/?do=findComment&comment=3738891

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by jfraser

[SelinaKyle17]

Hello! Don't know if I set up the mod wrong or if it's how the mod was designed, but when my character initially showed up. Dialogue with the guards and even the one within the mining room does not appear. There was only a couple times where dialogue has appeared on screen, other than that, it doesn't come up. Is this expected for the mod, or did I mess up somewhere? I downloaded SlavesTamrielSE-2-1-1, and leakim patch. 

[jfraser]

1 hour ago, SelinaKyle17 said:

Hello! Don't know if I set up the mod wrong or if it's how the mod was designed, but when my character initially showed up. Dialogue with the guards and even the one within the mining room does not appear. There was only a couple times where dialogue has appeared on screen, other than that, it doesn't come up. Is this expected for the mod, or did I mess up somewhere? I downloaded SlavesTamrielSE-2-1-1, and leakim patch. 

sounds like you either don't have Fuz do Roh-Silent Voice or perhaps you have the wrong version of it. 

[SelinaKyle17]

14 minutes ago, jfraser said:

sounds like you either don't have Fuz do Roh-Silent Voice or perhaps you have the wrong version of it. 

I do have Fus Ro D'oh-Silent voice Installed. The version it's listing is 1.7.

[jfraser]

6 minutes ago, SelinaKyle17 said:

I do have Fus Ro D'oh-Silent voice Installed. The version it's listing is 1.7.

i don't know what version of the game you have but try triple checking that you have the right Fus. this is a common issue for a lot of mods.

[Guest]

If someone were to remake this mod (to resolve some of these issues and provide integration with modern mods) what would you want to see?

Edited April 21, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[jfraser]

1 hour ago, ponzipyramid said:

If someone were to remake this mod (to resolve some of these issues and provide integration with modern mods) what would you want to see?

Just fully finished would be a nice start. XD

[Guest]

2 hours ago, jfraser said:

Just fully finished would be a nice start. XD

 

Ha, of course. I just tried this for the first time and man, the atmosphere/ambience is genuinely unnerving. Slaverun has a premise and dialogue that I found somewhat over the top which kept its more extreme content from getting under my skin but SoT just feels really grounded and far more disturbing as a result.

 

I was just looking at Haeretic's continuation page and saw this tidbit:

 

Quote

Slaves of Tamriel intends to be an umbrella mod, which would eventually cover major aspects of a slavery experience from the player's point of view.

 

which I thought was pretty compelling and prompted me to post. I have some preliminary ideas I'd appreciate feedback on:

 

In terms of fixing things, I was thinking it would be best to remove the more complex scenes by handing off control to the player and using the collar system from SD+ to make them do what they're supposed to. Replace the restraints with something you can actually get out of using stuff you might find/make like lockpicks. Offload the bladder system to Private Needs directly for people who want that sort of thing, and just do regular food/beds to be compatible with all needs mods out of the box. Use YPS Immersive Fashion if installed to do head shaving + piercings.

 

Then for extending things:

 

I'm mostly ripping off stuff from this surprisingly similar FO4 mod.

 

Prison Alternative could be a good template for building a remake of SoT with the umbrella mod design in mind. You have the base captivity system in Dremir Mine and you retain the schedule + mining. But every morning you may be given different jobs (quests) across Skyrim that are added through add-ons like in PA. So one day you're mining, another day you're doing pest control (radiant quest to kill x skeevers or something), "stress relief" at a Stormcloak/Imperial camp (radiant prostitution), transporting goods from point A to point B (like in S.L.U.T.S.), cleaning/cooking (like in Wartimes Tweak), farming, and so on. Have a guard accompany you on the jobs to feed and water you and to make sure you and the others don't escape.

 

Add a proper escape system where you have to get rid of your collar and get away from the mine or job site (aggro the guards if you get out of your restraints to make things tough). Maybe sprinkle in some slave hunters the player has to hide from or eliminate after escaping like the vanilla hired thugs or POP's bounty hunters. If they down you, you get sent back to Dremir or SS++. Probably use a health threshold for "down status" instead of bleedout to prevent issues with Defeat mods and in the same vein use exponential backoff to keep slavers from putting you in bleedout during whipping.

 

You could also add punishment events (in response to failing jobs or an escape attempt) and training events (to unlock new jobs). These add debuffs that makes escaping tougher (whipping = reduced max health = easier time for the guards to down you when you make a run for it). Then you might have to barter with other slaves or beg the guards for certain items to remove the debuffs like skin balm after whipping.

 

Maybe a smuggling system, where you can try sneaking items needed for escape into your inventory when out of the mine on a job along with random searches (like in the original) from Sexlab Body Search to keep things difficult. Use the hidden pocket system from that mod or Extra Pocket. Have a secret stash in your cell to hide items as you plan your escape.

 

Use a compliance stat to tie everything together: failing jobs + getting caught escaping/having prohibited items = lower compliance = more restraints = harder time escaping. Completing jobs + complying with rules = higher compliance = less restraints = easier time escaping. Set the max/min compliance in the MCM to make the mod harder or easier.

 

I'd also probably add an MCM toggle to add some male slaves and female guards and rewrite some of the dialogue to be gender-agnostic. Skyrim is very racist but not all that sexist so I don't think slavers would discriminate in this regard. I was also thinking you could add some more lore justification by saying the Dark Elf noble houses brought the practice into Skyrim when they fled Morrowind.

[jc321]

4 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

which I thought was pretty compelling and prompted me to post. I have some preliminary ideas I'd appreciate feedback on:

First off, if you take this challenge up and look to build upon it that would be great. The concept of this mod was (and still is) fantastic and a shame it was discontinued (pretty much like sewer slaves which had a lot of similarities of coding from this mod).

 

4 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

In terms of fixing things, I was thinking it would be best to remove the more complex scenes by handing off control to the player and using the collar system from SD+ to make them do what they're supposed to. Replace the restraints with something you can actually get out of using stuff you might find/make like lockpicks. Offload the bladder system to Private Needs directly for people who want that sort of thing, and just do regular food/beds to be compatible with all needs mods out of the box. Use YPS Immersive Fashion if installed to do head shaving + piercings.

 

Reasons why I like this mod is that it's currently an 'End game' no way out ... and although that's not to everyone's taste the way it was written, and with the surrounding atmospherics (things going on in the background) it helped to take away the monotony of the same thing happening day in, day out. 

 

However there were scenes that would get really boring pretty quickly .. the processing elements of entering and exiting. Great the first time or so but, as a mechanic, because they take so long to process it was spending nearly half the day of normal gameplay to complete (which is why the author messed around with the timescales) - If this was a do once on the first day ... or just periodically .. that would be better. 

 

The actual mining .. and day consumed .. I wouldn't personally want to see touched .. because it had so much going on. As a player you needed to keep an eye on not being watched whilst resting .. and the outcome of the day dictated whether you were fed or not (or ultimately leading to could be punished further) .. The actual mechanics for mining were specifically built for SoT I believe since the mining vein never got depleted, you had to work hard to actually get any ore .. and ultimately you, as a player, were building up strength so that the first few days you'd be lucky to get any ore .. but over time you would become adept at it. Combined with the rest periods, ability to steal from other players (although guard doesn't do anything as yet if you do) it's a great scene and should be preserved .. together with the going to sleep and feeding scenes .. in my opinion.

 

Most of the restraints in Heretics mod are now in DD so you could ditch the dependency on his specific mod. Putting in a mechanic to escape from .. and being able to find a lockpick (or possibly a mechanic to create one from finding something in the mine) sounds a good idea .. Having guards maybe do a spot check and search adds to the risk of being caught with a lockpick.

 

Offloading bladder etc.. also sounds good but it was a good atmospheric add on.. I didn't mind it myself .. What I would have wanted to see is more implications if you didn't manage to do sufficient work .. which then meant no food and if using an Ineeds type system would have an effect on the player.

 

I haven't loaded the latest YPS as yet but it handles the hair well but not sure if the piercings are as well suited than what you get out of Heritic.. As in they are rustic and designed to look horrible. 

4 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

Prison Alternative could be a good template for building a remake of SoT with the umbrella mod design in mind. You have the base captivity system in Dremir Mine and you retain the schedule + mining. But every morning you may be given different jobs (quests) across Skyrim that are added through add-ons like in PA. So one day you're mining, another day you're doing pest control (radiant quest to kill x skeevers or something), "stress relief" at a Stormcloak/Imperial camp (radiant prostitution), transporting goods from point A to point B (like in S.L.U.T.S.), cleaning/cooking (like in Wartimes Tweak), farming, and so on. Have a guard accompany you on the jobs to feed and water you and to make sure you and the others don't escape.

 

That sounds good - And if you had ability to do other jobs even better .. Wouldn't personally want to see you leaving the mine (or complex .. as there is expansion of buildings just outside of the mine) so there could be enough to handle different jobs/stress relief etc.. although also like the potential to be used to transport goods .. under guidance to a certain destination .. A to B destinations preferrable under supervision? rather than free reign .. unless over time you become trusted 

 

4 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

You could also add punishment events (in response to failing jobs or an escape attempt) and training events (to unlock new jobs). These add debuffs that makes escaping tougher (whipping = reduced max health = easier time for the guards to down you when you make a run for it). Then you might have to barter with other slaves or beg the guards for certain items to remove the debuffs like skin balm after whipping.

 

There's also possibility to make use of the torture/punishment room that's already built into the mine. - But adding debuffs to make escape harder sounds great idea

 

4 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

Add a proper escape system where you have to get rid of your collar and get away from the mine or job site (aggro the guards if you get out of your restraints to make things tough). Maybe sprinkle in some slave hunters the player has to hide from or eliminate after escaping like the vanilla hired thugs or POP's bounty hunters. If they down you, you get sent back to Dremir or SS++. Probably use a health threshold for "down status" instead of bleedout to prevent issues with Defeat mods and in the same vein use exponential backoff to keep slavers from putting you in bleedout during whipping.

 

I thought about this a few times my feelings is that if you build an escape system then once the player knows how to do it .. then it's effectively easy to run through again and the challenge is gone .. Given that Skyrim has many peculiarities could you just rely on a very high levelled character having the ability to sneak/pick locks etc.. to achieve an escape .. but if they mis-behave they are debuffed accordingly .. or just a sentencing of number of days on a prison alternative type thing .. which could be extended if player mis-behaves. If they do escape before the served time then use of bounty hunters ect.. sounds good

 

 

5 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

Use a compliance stat to tie everything together: failing jobs + getting caught escaping/having prohibited items = lower compliance = more restraints = harder time escaping. Completing jobs + complying with rules = higher compliance = less restraints = easier time escaping. Set the max/min compliance in the MCM to make the mod harder or easier.

 

Ideal! - You behave, gradual relaxation of rules .. mis-behave you have to endure a harder regime and challenges to achieving an actual escape. 

 

 

[jfraser]

Ah, that's what you meant. SoT's original plan was to create multiple slavery scenarios. But then he got so buried in the fine details of the mine that he never got around to the others. Or, at least, that's the impression I got at the time.

 

I like your ideas. Ideally, I'd love them more if they could all be self-contained experiences so Simple Slavery could get them all as fresh outcomes. XD

 

I think adding more scenarios and linking them together would lessen the impact of the mine a bit - part of the hopeless atmosphere you and I both love about it is the feeling that you're stuck there forever and will never see the light of day again - but it is true that being stuck in one scenario doesn't lend itself to a long term game-playing experience. There are only so many cycles of the day you can go through before losing interest. 

 

As with all things Skyrim, time will be a challenge. You can create a scenario where you need to do farming but you will need to add a LOT of custom stuff to fill out an entire day. Or make a skyrim-sized farm, because picking crops takes very little time. Same with something like killing skeevers (presumably while chained up and using only a pickaxe) or cooking/cleaning. How do you make something like cooking and cleaning a day-long experience without it becoming immediately dull? 

 

You would presumably need to black out to go from scenario to scenario because if you try to travel to the other places, it will take the entire day just to get there and you run the risk of random things killing the guards. more important, the "force follow an NPC"  function is super finicky in this game XD

[Guest]

2 hours ago, jc321 said:

However there were scenes that would get really boring pretty quickly .. the processing elements of entering and exiting. Great the first time or so but, as a mechanic, because they take so long to process it was spending nearly half the day of normal gameplay to complete (which is why the author messed around with the timescales) - If this was a do once on the first day ... or just periodically .. that would be better. 

 

Yeah, I was thinking this is where the search mechanic could come in. Could be randomized and weighted on your compliance score so exiting/entering the mine is always a tense process since you don't know if they're going to check.

 

2 hours ago, jc321 said:

Most of the restraints in Heretics mod are now in DD so you could ditch the dependency on his specific mod. Putting in a mechanic to escape from .. and being able to find a lockpick (or possibly a mechanic to create one from finding something in the mine) sounds a good idea .. Having guards maybe do a spot check and search adds to the risk of being caught with a lockpick.

 

The restraints are up in the air for me. I'm not a huge fan of DDs in this context since escaping them is almost completely a function of RNG rather than player resourcefulness and skill. Maybe implement a custom restraint system on top of ZaZ as a standalone mod and use it here? Sword to cut rope, grindstones to cut metal, lockpicks and an actual lockpicking minigame to unlock, etc. The slavers add progressively more restrictive restraints the more time they catch you breaking rules.

 

2 hours ago, jc321 said:

I thought about this a few times my feelings is that if you build an escape system then once the player knows how to do it .. then it's effectively easy to run through again and the challenge is gone .. Given that Skyrim has many peculiarities could you just rely on a very high levelled character having the ability to sneak/pick locks etc.. to achieve an escape .. but if they mis-behave they are debuffed accordingly .. or just a sentencing of number of days on a prison alternative type thing .. which could be extended if player mis-behaves. If they do escape before the served time then use of bounty hunters ect.. sounds good

 

The collar would be the primary challenge here since it will kill the player for not being close enough to the mine, their jobsite, or a guard. Under normal circumstances, I don't like time mechanics in games; there's nothing that fun about just waiting for a timer to run out in order to resume but I can see it working really well here. The collar has an enchantment that prevents lockpicking (shocks you when you try) but it runs out over time and must be refreshed by a mage the guards brings in. So you get a limited, configurable time window to get out of the collar in order to escape. That timing is semi-randomized so you may not always be in the best position to escape when it runs out i.e. cuffed in your cell. So the player has to engage with the gameplay loop for a while before they can try escaping. The restraints also make this tougher since you can't remove a collar if your hands are tied. The sentencing idea is interesting, though it does blur the lines between being a inmate versus a slave. Maybe calling the player a PoW makes the most sense in this context?

 

2 hours ago, jfraser said:

I like your ideas. Ideally, I'd love them more if they could all be self-contained experiences so Simple Slavery could get them all as fresh outcomes. XD

 

If they were implemented as SS++ experiences how do you imagine them working? I was tying them to SoT to be able to share some common resources and using the compliance stat to make things cohesive.

 

2 hours ago, jfraser said:

I think adding more scenarios and linking them together would lessen the impact of the mine a bit - part of the hopeless atmosphere you and I both love about it is the feeling that you're stuck there forever and will never see the light of day again - but it is true that being stuck in one scenario doesn't lend itself to a long term game-playing experience. There are only so many cycles of the day you can go through before losing interest. 

 

This is fair. I was thinking the mining would still be your primary introduction to the mod so as you get better, you increase compliance which opens you up to nicer jobs above ground.

 

2 hours ago, jfraser said:

You would presumably need to black out to go from scenario to scenario because if you try to travel to the other places, it will take the entire day just to get there and you run the risk of random things killing the guards. more important, the "force follow an NPC"  function is super finicky in this game XD

 

Very good point, hadn't considered how little time most of these tasks would take. The issue is that running through several of them a day would probably accelerate the tedium and you'd end up in the same place as the base mod. If it gets traction and other folks make add-ons this could be mitigated.

 

I was thinking fast travel to cut down on the long walks to certain areas. If it's sufficiently short, put the guards escorting you in a scene, but let the player retain control and use the collar health drain system to make sure they stay close. Compatibility is sort of a nightmare here cause there's so many uncontrolled variables and external mods that could mess with marching out in the game world proper.

[jfraser]

I would definitely recommend avoiding as many dependencies as possible. Don’t get tied to DD or anything except sex lab and ZAZ, maybe.  I love Kimy but many people find the DD items to be anachronisms in the context of the setting and refused to use any mods that require it. 
 

fast travel is not a good idea but you can certainly just set markers in the appropriate places and just have a black out, move to the marker, come back in. You do not want undue time to pass during those moves. Unless moving someone to a marker also affects the time. I have not tested that so I am not sure if it happens. 
 

I do not know how it would work to have all these at separate instances  – that was more being flippant about more outcomes for simple slavery ha ha. You are looking for something more integrated where you have to gradually build trust of the guards, and I think that is also a fantastic idea

 

 

edit: yes, the timing thing is a definite issue. I have tried making other scenarios like a farm scenario, for instance, before but I discovered, first, that I am terrible at building world spaces, and second, that picking crops takes about 30 seconds and then you have the rest of the time to try to fill it. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by jfraser

[Naps-On-Dirt]

19 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

Offload the bladder system to Private Needs directly for people who want that sort of thing

 

Yes please, so those of us that don't want it can be free of it.    I agree with whoever recently said that the transfer process took too long... Its cool and should definately be there for when you first arrive, but I think that something needs to be done to speed it up.  Like a fade-to-black right after the guard comes in yelling for everyone to wake up, and when you can see again a couple seconds later you're in the mining area.  

 

This sounds really cool, I'm really happy that you're doing this.  I haven't played through it in a while so I'll set up SS++ to send me there and I'll take some notes. 

[Naps-On-Dirt]

I got myself sent to Dremiel (?) Mine, made some notes as I went through the content.  The MCM load failure and the red <!> from legbinders might be a local problem, not sure.  

 

(MCM didn't load, it used to but I don't know when it stopped.  Haven't actually used the mod in a long while.)
- Needs less loss of player control.
- Make the "modesty gesture" of covering  yourself optional in the MCM. 
- Remove the bladder mechanics and relegate it to other Needs mods for those that like that sort of thing, so that those that don't aren't bothered with it.
- When you're stripped of your gear, it'd be nice for players who have barefoot debuff mods (like SL Survival) if we'd be given footwraps at least, though Skyrim OSHA might require some sort of protective boot.
- Guards that escort you places need a torch, its fucking pitch black in those tunnels between wall torches.
- Player and other prisoners were wearing leg irons that caused a red <!>, RefID xx02904b. Had to remove it from everyone at the start when I first arrived in the mine, and then again when we were let out to go to our cells. 
- Needs a one time popup window when you first arrive in the mining area showing the commands and their keybinds for mining and resting.  
- Ore collection is slow... maybe I read too fast but could the dialogue be sped up at all?
- One idea to speed up the transfer scene (or really all of the scenes.)  Right now lines are spoken, Fus-Ro-Doh doles out the time pause for you to read it, then action is taken.  Could it be changed so that the instant the guard says "Stand up!" the NPC he is talking to stands, or starts whatever action is required?  Fus could continue doing its thing to space out dialogue but the actions should be triggered at the start of the line, not the finish, so they run in parallel.  I think that will speed it up quite a bit.
- Needs some sex abuse.  Foreman could demand something if you're low on ore. Door guard and/or patrol guard could visit you (and/or others) at night.  A whole new task could be implemented where each slave alternately takes a day off mining and services the guards in the barracks for a shift.

 

Thats all I had so far, I stopped after getting locked into the cell because it was time for dinner.  Speaking of, if I target the trough and activate it, camera freezes for a second as if the PC is going to play an animation (like when mining) but nothing happens, and a couple seconds later control is restored.  I don't remember what is supposed to happen there.  
 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Naps-On-Dirt

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Naps-On-Dirt said:

- Needs less loss of player control.

 

Yep, big thing for me. Hoping the collar system + less time in scenes hits a good balance between disempowerment but still having some autonomy.

 

5 hours ago, Naps-On-Dirt said:

- Ore collection is slow... maybe I read too fast but could the dialogue be sped up at all?

 

I agree but this is a tough one. I want to accommodate users whose native tongue is not English so slower seems like the safer bet. But I can speed up the scenes by parallelizing dialogue and movement.

 

Everything else I generally agree with.

 

---

 

Thanks for the feedback/suggestions/testing. I did a cursory read-through of the original and continuation support thread along with the Sewer Rats page. Every time you think you have an original idea it turns out someone had a better version of it years ago :).

 

The impression I'm also getting is that the author's (and Haeretic's) intent was more akin to a highly detailed and immersive story mod with branching paths rather than the gameplay-oriented, repeatable approach that I'm suggesting. I think its possible to deliver on the latter and then go back to deliver on the former after things are stable.

 

Here's my current plan:

1. Try my hardest to salvage the original mod (+ leakim's patch), fix the common bugs like the MCM, some scene triggers, speed up a couple long packages, rip out the unfinished stuff, clean up the dependencies, and publish this as a "remaster" of the original for people who want that pure SoT experience. If this works, continue building off it. If it doesn't, I'm tempted to just start over from scratch since trying to resolve decade old technical debt spread across three iterations is unlikely to end well. I definitely prefer working with what's there considering the immense detail the original author poured into it.
2. Build a restraints system with immersive escape techniques using ZaZ. This will probably just have rope cuffs, steel cuffs, open gag, closed gag, rope leg cuffs, iron fetters with custom scripting. Rope is easier, metal is harder. You can still eat with open (just like in DD) but closed will starve you so it can be used as a punishment. I'm aiming for a standalone mod so I and other authors can I reuse it for different project since IIRC, there isn't a lightweight restraint system built purely on ZaZ.
3. Offload certain systems to other mods through soft dependencies:
   1. bladder -> Private Needs. In addition to removing the system for the player, I'll add a toggle in the MCM to disable NPC behavior and the buckets.
   2. shaving -> YPS but use regular hair swapping for those that don't use it. When I said do this for piercings I mostly meant just use the API to tell YPS that the player was pierced for consistency when they escape. YPS will give us hair regrowth out of the box so no need to implement this from scratch.
   3. I'm not sure if simply "equipping" food will count as eating but if so it's probably the easiest way to avoid having to write manual integrations for all the different needs mods out there while still using the eating animations. I'll definitely do this for the bed since SL survival demonstrates you can interrupt sleeping for night events or punishments.
   4. Some kind of bathing system? BiS/Keep it Clean/Dirt and Blood will handle dirt correctly but there needs to be some way the player can actually start bathing. Maybe this could be something you barter for (see below)?
4. Refactor things like tats and slave clothes to use external JSON config files. Doing them this way should let users have stronger control over the mod. For example, there were some people complaining about the face tats, they can simply remove the extra line and share the edited file. Same with the barefoot realism issue, just read a form list from JSON to dictate what the player is given as their outfit during processing. Add footwraps to this file by default.
5. Replace the restraints with the standalone system.
6. Build out the collar system probably standalone as well since I want to reuse it for future projects.
7. Build out the jobs system and refactor the mining to be a job.
8. Build out the compliance system w/ progressive restraints.
9. Build out the bartering system with slaves and guards. I'm thinking I can define barterable items with a form list in JSON to make this customizable too. I'm not sure if there's some way to make this more interesting beyond sexual favors for guards and food for slaves. Planning on pulling inspiration from SL Survival's begging system.
10. Build out the punishment system and create a super basic whipping punishment with a health debuff and add skin balm to barter list.
11. Build out the search mechanic i.e. after the first time weight it on compliance and actually do inventory checks w/ soft integration with Extra Pocket. Though extra pocket does leave male PCs out in the cold despite a certain orifice being "open"
12. Test, test, test
13. Work on add-on packs for additional jobs/punishments
14. Flesh out guard/slave dialogue and finer details
15. Add a revenge system where you can kill the slavers and free everyone
16. Add more camps/mines to be sold to and sold by with distinct atmospheres.
17. Long-term effects? I remember reading somewhere that the Romans would automatically dispossess you of your property if you were captured abroad. So to make enslavement even more punishing from a gameplay perspective your house, horse, and items get sold on enslavement. Toggleable.

I also want to make some disclaimers to keep expectations in check:

• I'm still relatively new to mod development so progress will be slow.
• I'm pretty squeamish. There's some suggestions in the original thread and especially Sewer Rats that are too macabre or flat-out gross for my taste. But if I can make the system sufficiently extensible anyone is free to build whatever they'd like on top.
• I'm on SE and don't have LE. Someone willing to backport preview builds would be highly appreciated. I'm not planning on building new assets so it should be a simple as resaving the ESP in CK and copying over the new scripts.

Open to making changes to my plans.

[Guest]

Things are off to a decent start. Some assorted thoughts in order of importance:

 

I think I fixed most of the MCM issues. The SkyUI docs state that the MCM needs to be its own quest that's just in charge of attaching the needed scripts and having the player alias for load handling. Since everything was being attached to the same SLTMineQuest there were issues with registration and state being reset when the quest was reset or stage changed which is why you'd need to change settings after being sent there. This should be fixed now. I decided to rewrite the MCM from scratch since there was some weird hacky stuff going on with a custom SKI_ConfigBase I think is unnecessary. I reimplemented the start and stop quest toggles for now. I added some additional logging for the registration event to help troubleshoot if my fixes don't actually work.

 

I ran it through xEdit's Auto cleaner and I'm not getting ref errors from the leg irons but I'm not sure if that's actually fixed. @Naps-On-Dirt were you talking about the console being filled with the ref id not found thing?

 

I was running into an issue where if I started the quest, loaded an earlier save, then tried to start the quest again, nothing happened (can someone validate this happening on their side?). Added some logging and found that StartQuest() returned false indicating an issue. I marked all the quest aliases for SLTMineQuest as optional and voila the quest starts consistently so clearly there's some kind of alias fill issue. When starting this way certain NPCs are missing, most of the other slaves + warden. Everything's forced refs which IIRC causes issues with them being held in memory even after the quest has ended. Still working on an actual fix for this.

 

But atm, it definitely looks like building off it is possible. There's some major design issues with EVERYTHING being placed in this single quest and most of the logic being in a single script. After these basic fixes, priority #1 is moving some of the functions/scripts out into separate utility/interface quests to make it more manageable.

 

I want to replace the wheel during processing with vertical stocks to fix some alignment issues since getting into the wheel is very prone to breaking even with Pama's Furniture fix script.

 

Ragdoll is just not worth it. There's way too high a chance of things completely breaking.

 

The collar definitely alleviates the need for scenes. The whipping only works in limited contexts and is hard to coordinate with packages so the scenes were needed to actually force the player into the right place. The collar shocking is functionally similar to whipping but can be started through pure scripting and is therefore much more versatile. So we just do periodic checks for player proximity to the same markers and then shock accordingly.

 

Regarding unfinished content I was able to find (w/ the help of this thread):

• A watersports scene involving you and the warden that seems mostly finished (?)
• A completely unfinished cell sex scene
• The torture room which is surprisingly fleshed out but isn't linked with the rest of the mod
• A scene where the guard throws food that the player and other slaves must grab it. I'm assuming this to provide another meal without having to get everyone back into the cells. This looks done but have to test.
• Crime (stealing ore) handling (was this actually finished? not sure.)

Was there anything else I missed?

Edited April 24, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[jfraser]

As I recall, stealing ore is possible but it was never set up that you might be able to get caught. There was no penalty for stealing. I could be wrong, but that’s what I remember - it has been a while.

[Guest]

Thankfully ended up being an easy fix for the quest not being able to be started a second time. Found out that if you want a unique actor alias you have to give the unique actor a persist location or it will fail to fill. This also fixed a couple of actor placement issues on the second start. I had to regenerate facegen data to fix dark face. Also unpacked the BSA to make development faster. I'll repack as soon as the mod reaches a stable state.

 

The MCM is significantly stripped down but if it loads consistently, I should be set to keep building.

 

@jfraser Is it okay to set up a new page with the credits for everyone from this page?

Slaves of Tamriel Redux v0.0.1.7z

[jfraser]

32 minutes ago, ponzipyramid said:

Thankfully ended up being an easy fix for the quest not being able to be started a second time. Found out that if you want a unique actor alias you have to give the unique actor a persist location or it will fail to fill. This also fixed a couple of actor placement issues on the second start. I had to regenerate facegen data to fix dark face. Also unpacked the BSA to make development faster. I'll repack as soon as the mod reaches a stable state.

 

The MCM is significantly stripped down but if it loads consistently, I should be set to keep building.

 

@jfraser Is it okay to set up a new page with the credits for everyone from this page?

Slaves of Tamriel Redux v0.0.1.7z 19.52 MB · 1 download

You don’t need my permission. I just added a shovel. SoT has given his blessing for further development, so go for it. Can’t wait to see what you do. 

[jc321]

On 4/24/2023 at 6:27 AM, ponzipyramid said:

Was there anything else I missed?

 

If I wasn't dreaming it .. There was a scene that started at the bottom of the hill that led up to the mine. You were put in a cart and it went up the hill. The main issue being that the cart went mad spinning all over the place, but you got to an intermediary camp to be offloaded and then nothing .. 

 

If you manage to restore those non active scenes that would be marvellous.

[jc321]

On 4/24/2023 at 1:17 PM, jfraser said:

There was no penalty for stealing. I could be wrong, but that’s what I remember - it has been a while.

 

Yeah, the guard catches you and you are forced to lay down (I think) and then nothing .. Ideally you'd be led off to the already built punishment room.

[jfraser]

Cart riding does not work with builds that include physics. Unless they fixes that in SE. It is why, if you start a new game with physics on with the vanilla start, the cart goes crazy.