Porting Lovers Animations to Sexout

[gregathit]

Ok, you Sexout contributors, the question I have is are you at all interested in seeing some lovers animations make their way to Sexout and if, so do you have any requests for particular ones.  Gerra6 has been helping me work through the process and it "may" be possible to do this. 

 

However, I do have a few questions:

1. Currently it looks like you are setup to have 4 kfs per sex act (2 offensive and 2 defense) with 2 stages per sex act.  Is this a standard or something that can be ignored?  Currently lovers animations have 4 stages with a total of 8 kf files.  One is the orgasm\cum stage.   If you can give me some details or point me to where they may be found, so I can 'bone up' on how Sexout works vs Lovers.

 

2. Lovers has the Daedra Sutra which is a compilation of all existing sex positions with screen shots.  Does Sexout have something similar or is there a list lying around somewhere that I can reference to avoid wasting time trying to port things that may already exist?

 

3. Bouncing breasts.  Do most of your current animations have them or no?  Currently I am combing through the lovers animations and adding bouncing breasts to all animations that don't have it (or have it but it looks bad).  If you do lack BB then I could easily add it to any existing animations that you need it on.

 

4. Bouncing butts.  It does not appear this is something that made its way to FNV.  If I am wrong let me know otherwise I won't bother messing with it if no skelly's or bodies are set up for it.

 

 

I am NOT promising that I can do this, but the test animations that Gerra6 has helped me port for the most part seem to work so I thought I would see if you have any interest me working on it.

 

Cheers,

Greg

[DoctaSax]

1. We don't have stages, actually, one anim plays per actor until done, at which point people flop over   We tend to run into all kinds of limitations with NVSE, which is not nearly as developed as OBSE, and have never had too many animators. The development of staging or allowing players to manually fine-tune position has suffered as a result of that - and of course, NG has been orphaned of late.

2. Nope. For personal reference I use some screenies I made ages ago, but that's only human, 2-people anims and because I was actually testing positioning on beds at the time, they often don't line up so well in the screens. We should probably work on that.
3. Some have BB, some don't.
4. Bouncing butts... none that i know of, but whether the skeleton allows it is something astymma would know best.

 

On the whole, we are of course still very much interested in more anims! In fact, if we had more, stuff like staging would be more likely to be added at some point by somebody.

[gregathit]

Well, not having different stages does greatly simplify porting that is for sure.  Porting 1 stage with 2 kf files versus 4 stages with 8 kf files makes this a much shorter affair.

 

Other questions:

1. Is there a target time duration for animations?  Lovers animations are all over the map as far as the number of frames (and thus the time each stage loops as you can have the stage loop for a user specified time period).  About half of them are somewhere between 30 and 60 frames .  The rest are shorter or much larger (some of Grumpfs are 300+ frames).   If I know what the standard is then I can add to the animation to loop it if NVSE and NG isn't set up to loop animations a certain number of times (or certain number of seconds).

 

2. Since it can only handle one stage this could would greatly increase the number of animations during porting as many of the lovers animations are different from stage to stage. 

 

3. Can which ever one of you that is most active with NG take a look through the Daedra Sutra and tell me which animations you would like to see ported?  Also note which stage you would like.  In the screenshots the stages (referred to as "x" from here on out) starting top left are x0 (orgasm stage), the right of that is x1, then bottom left is x2 and right of it is x3.  There is no need to actually install Lovers or even the Daedra Sutra.  You can just extract the screenshots of the animations themselves.  Only look at animations 1-200.  201 and above are creature animations.  Those are giving us fits right now so they are unlikely to ever work.

 

The stages progress "in game" in the following order: 1, 2, 3, 0

[KainsChylde]

Well, we have user-defined base times for duration, which are then modified by different variables. The default base animation length is 15 seconds. Not sure what the minimum and maximum times are, I never change them.

[DoctaSax]

The anims themselves usually go from 2 to 6 secs maybe. Depends.

[gregathit]

So roughly 30 to 90 frames?  Or is it longer than that?

[DoctaSax]

I couldn't tell ya... KFs are foreign territory to me. That range of duration is just based on the previews of the anim in the geck.

[gregathit]

No problem.  I can figure that one out by opening some existing animations from NG in blender.

[gerra6]

I'll be releasing an update to Pose Converter in the next day or so that should make it ready for *nearly* automated porting of animations from Oblivion to Fallout/FNV (and greatly simplify the porting from NPC's to creatures and back).

 

Would anyone like to take the Development Beta for a spin?

Edited February 11, 2013 by gerra6

[gregathit]

Based on what I am seeing in typical NG animations they are about 150 frames in length.  It took me a bit to figure out the folder\file structure.  The 'a' is the offensive position (referred to as the 'giver' in Sexout) and the 'b' is the defensive position (the 'taker').  That part was fairly straight forward, but the part that confused me was that the 'giver' animation was under kneeling while the taker animation might be under laying or sit or squat (or vice versa).  Lovers stuff is just all dumped into one folder and no attempt was ever made to separate it out by stance.

 

I noticed that there are also multiple other animations outside of the NG folder.  I guess my point is I am kinda at a loss as to what all animations you already have verses what you don't without sitting down and charting it all out.  Right now I don't have the time to do this, so I need a bit of direction from some of you Sexout guys as to what animations you actually want me to try to port for you.  The Daedra Sutra contains screenshots of all of the animations lovers currently has so it should be easy enough for folks who are familiar with Sexout to glance through and identify stuff you want me to attempt to port.  Obviously porting all of them is out of the question as there are 200+ Lovers animations.  Additionally some of them are a waste to port as you already have an identical animation (or something really similar). 

 

Long story short, I need some direction on what animations you would like.  I have several other projects going right, now so I have limited time and want to use it to the best possible advantage.  The Daedra Sutra can be found in the OP here: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/8232-the-daedra-sutra-lovers-with-pk-animation-collection/

 

If one or more of you would look through and identify some animations that Sexout could use, then I will attempt to port them.

 

Another thing I can do as well is add bouncing breasts to existing Sexout animations.  If someone can give me a list of animations that need it, I can add it in very quickly.  This is something I currently am doing for Lovers animations right now that either don't have it or it was not done well. 

[KainsChylde]

I think just about all sexout animations need bounce.

 

The problem right now is that all of our animations are split between 2 main sources. Originally SexoutNG had the main sex animations while BDSM stuff was handled by ZAZ. But ever since Prideslayer went MIA new animations have been getting added to ZAZ to keep our small crew of animators from getting frustrated about their new animations not getting used.

[gregathit]

I think just about all sexout animations need bounce.

 

The problem right now is that all of our animations are split between 2 main sources. Originally SexoutNG had the main sex animations while BDSM stuff was handled by ZAZ. But ever since Prideslayer went MIA new animations have been getting added to ZAZ to keep our small crew of animators from getting frustrated about their new animations not getting used.

 

 

Well, that is what I will work on then until someone can identify what animations that Sexout needs.  Adding bouncing breasts to animations is fairly easy to do and fairly quick.  About 10-15 minutes per, so I should be able to motor through them fairly quickly.  I will just do the ones in the NG folder to start with.

[DoctaSax]

I'll try & get you some numbers later on, but that'll just be based on personal taste - I quite like the more romantic/sweet anim combos, for instance.

 

I'm also quite taken with the anims against walls & on tables & chairs, although that'd obviously take some nifty additional scripting to position the actors right before they're actually implemented in-game. Otherwise it looks silly having people lean on thin air. But it's a chicken & egg thing, of course. Without the anims there's no point in trying to figure that stuff out rightaway, and as long as it's not figured out it may feel like a waste doing those anims.

 

And as Kain pointed out, a lot of this depends on what direction NG will take.

[Halstrom]

I wouldn't mind seeing some 3 persons where 1 person is holding the victim while the other does her, maybe a collaring animation like this. Prides been missing for a bit now, I think we are going to have to step up and continue his work ourselves. It shouldn't be that hard I imagine for us to add new stuff to an existing system, it's probably above my current knowledge and free time to do it myself though for a month or 2.

[zippy57]

I've looked at it, but I have absolutely no idea how Sexout actually determines and starts animations.

[gregathit]

Well, if Pride borrowed anything from lovers then I can probably figure it out.  I'll take a peek at the esm\esp later this evening and see if he is using a random call or what. 

 

As to threesomes, sorry, that is currently beyond my limited animating abilities.  I have only been animating for about a month.  I am best at fixing animations and adding bouncing breasts\butts.  I can create new stuff but it takes quite a while to do that.  The payoff for fixing things is much greater and helps me ease my way into the creation process.

[astymma]

As far as new animations being brought into Sexout, Greg, you could simply place them all in a folder named ImportedLoversAnimations. They'll all need to be added into Sexout as new available numbers anyway and having an explicit location stating they're imported would help managing them. one thing that should probably be done with animations is to "zero" them so the actors are technically located at the same spot... otherwise we need to manually create a script to re-adjust them since we do not have the capability of using RunBatchScript to fix them on the fly like Lovers has.

 

The way animations are chosen in Sexout is extremely simple... the animation number is determined by how many SexoutNGAnimCounter tokens the actor has in inventory. Animation 601, for example, would be played if the actor had exactly 601 SexoutNGAnimCounter tokens in inventory. The positioning script simply calls actor.pickidle. Basically each animations has 2, 3 or 4 entries depending on whether it's solo, duo, or threesome. It has a parent entry that is picked based on having the SexoutNGAnimCounter count = the anim. It then has individual entries for each position a, b and c that is selected if you have a SexoutNGAnimPositionA, SexoutNGAnimPositionB, or SexoutNGAnimPositionC token in inventory. Using 601 as an example, actor a is given 601 animcounter tokens and the SexoutNGAnimPositionA token, actorb is given 601 animcounter tokens and the SexoutNGAnimPositionB token and there is no actor c sinceit's a duo animation. Both actors are then told to pickidle.

EDIT: Oh and if you need help regarding SexoutNG, feel free to PM me... and/or Jaam. there may be more people who know the innards of Sexout well enough but I'm fairly sure of myself and Jaam knowing it well enough to be a decent resource.

Edited February 12, 2013 by astymma

[KainsChylde]

Dunno if this belongs here or not, but I had an idea. With NG not being actively updated anymore but animations still being made/converted/etc, maybe animations should be pulled from NG and ZAZ and made into an independent plugin? Or would that be more work than its worth, or even possible? I know dick about animations and their implementation, so if that's retarded feel free to tell me so.

[zippy57]

Now that the download is owned by an active user, if someone adds the animations to NG I can update the official file after a short beta period. Personally I'd like to move animations into NG rather than out of it; enough people struggle to get install requirements correct as it is, adding another required plugin won't help matters much.

[jaam]

I agree. Once they are properly paired and tested, adding animation to NG is rather mechanical as discribe by astymma. There is also the need to register them into the Randomize script, tedious but not complex.

 

And finally, if we are lucky to have too many new animations, it might be necessary to split Randomize again due to script length.

 

 

[DoctaSax]

Heya greg, I had a quick look through the daedra sutra, & there's quite a lot of good stuff there...
I can't say the screenshots bear out what you said about the stages (the orgasm stage seems to be bottom right most of the time), but in any case, it's hard to choose between the different stages of a combo, so I'll just go with the file names of the pictures & you can assume I'm talking about all 4 stages unless stated otherwise. There may be some overlap here & there - some stuff gets recycled, but I figure you'd know if you've already covered an anim or not.

Now, if I had to choose what should get priority it would be the more specifically romantic anim combos. It's a personal preference & I have no illusions about mine being more important than anyone else's, but I think there's a lack of it in NG atm (only about 5 that really look sweet, I think). More of these could be very useful to modders who wanna work on romance/relationships, or whoever's interested in high-end prostitution (the girlfriend experience) or using seduction to advance quests. I'm thinking of myself, BruceWayne, Mavia, Zippy, anyone else who'd jump in. And some of the standing ones could actually work out as a cuddling/making out combo without actual sex too, I think, which is also a request that we get from time to time. I'd definitely find a use for that.
I'm talking about 05, 05.1, 09, 16.1, 18.1, 20, 21, 22, 23, 29 (bottom 2), 35, 38.1, 41.2, 57, 57.1, 57.2, 63.1, 65, 75.1, 90 (bottom 2), 96, 109.1, 114, 121.1, 124, 131.1, 153.1 & 197. It's a lot, I know, but whatever you're willing to do we'll be glad to have.

We also don't have anything in the way of tittyfucking, so I think quite a few people would be happy to find 32, 47, 111 & 116 in their game at some point.

And then, there's the furniture-related stuff, which as I said would take extra scripting & all for positioning, but really adds to the experience being more interactive with the environment. "Rather than doing it in dirt, let's do it on that table over there," y'know. Less of a priority perhaps because they can't just be added & be done with, but if we can get 'em to work right, it would open up some interesting story possibilities.
Leaning against a wall: 10, 42, 45, 54, 137, 162
On/against a table: 77.1, 103 (table handjob, could be good for a massage parlor type mod along with 90 from above), 143.1
On a chair: 88.1, 88, 191, and 99.1 (a lapdance-type thing, good for bunny girl work at one of the casinos maybe...)

Skipping the stuff that looks broken, or incredibly acrobatic, the rest are mostly variations on missionary, doggy & cowgirl, as well as the occasional forced/restrained anim. We do have some of that already, so I wouldn't see those as a priority. But as said, that's just me talking - someone else might make a good case for a few more of those. I'm just focusing on what we definitely don't have, and looks  like great added value to me. Again, no pressure. It's all good.

[gregathit]

Thank you Doc!  That is exactly what I was hoping someone would give me.  With the limited time I have I couldn't hope to figure out what Sexout had vs what it needed.

 

I will start work porting the 1st numbers you listed starting with the 05 and work my way from there. 

 

 

By the way, you are right in that the orgasm is typically the bottom right in the pictures.  What I meant to say is that it is numbered x0 in the animations (vs x1 being stage 1).  Sorry for the confusion.  In many of the poses the orgasm is just a slowed down version of stage 3. 

 

 

 

I will need a hand testing these animations so if there are any available testers give me a holler in this thread.  I do have Sexout install but I don't have a clue how to go about forcing a particular animation to play so I can quickly test things.  I have a testing rig for Lovers\Oblivion but I am not aware of any such plugin\code for Sexout\FNV.  As such there may be some back and forth as I understand you do not have adjustment ability with animations like we do in lovers so we will need to get things 'spot on'.

 

I would think that I could get somewhere between 3-7 animations converted by Saturday so if several folks volunteer to test, it will help speed the process along.  I will let you guys focus on who and how to add them to Sexout, so I can concentrate on the conversions and hopefully you can add them all at once around the beginning of next month or so, unless something blows up..........

[astymma]

Positioning could easily be handled based on the changes I added to Sexout positioning already.

 

The change I did was to make positioning accessible during the act. The existing positioning script in Sexout constantly forces

position and rotation on the actors. The changes I added allow you to change the values the script uses in real time by simply

setting new values on the actors using the NVSE extender and then setting a "flag" variable to tell the script to use your new

values.

 

Positioning

 

;first, set your position values for X, Y and Z for ActorREF
ActorREF.NX_SetEVFl "Sexout:PosX" NewFloatX 0
ActorREF.NX_SetEVFl "Sexout:PosY" NewFloatY 0
ActorREF.NX_SetEVFl "Sexout:PosZ" NewFloatZ 0
;tell the sexout positioning script to apply changes for ActorREF
ActorREF.NX_SetEVFl "Sexout:PosChanged" 1.00 0

Rotation

 

;first, set your rotation values for X, Y and Z for ActorREF
ActorREF.NX_SetEVFl "Sexout:RotX" NewFloatX 0
ActorREF.NX_SetEVFl "Sexout:RotY" NewFloatY 0
ActorREF.NX_SetEVFl "Sexout:RotZ" NewFloatZ 0
;tell the sexout positioning script to apply changes for ActorREF
ActorREF.NX_SetEVFl "Sexout:RotChanged" 1.00 0

Once you make a call like that the positioning script will apply your changes as the new positioning/

rotation data for the actor and it will reset PosChanged/RotChanged back to 0.00.

 

It would be simple to use the above method within a (large) script which checks for anim# and applies

positioning/rotation relative to a furniture item, a wall, or whatever. I believe it's also possible to tell one

actor to play for example animation XXX and the partner YYY so we can improvise more furniture anims

than we might think we have currently. The existing positioning script contains a ton of checks already

that apply offsets/rotations to specific animation numbers.

 

EDIT: Oh and I absolutely agree that adding in the more "romantic" animations should be favored. Sexout

is seriously lacking that department... and..ermm, cough cough, I also agree with titfucking

Edited February 13, 2013 by astymma

[beck11]

Well looks like Ive been told to remove myself from the front of the queue and let some Johnny come lately in front instead. You'd think people would be more willing to offer help to the bloke whose been slaving away for months now to revive a dead aspect of FNV but apprently if you're not doing 3some or "romantic"(w/e the fuck that means) animations you're just not worth the time it seems. There is more fervour to get things going in the first 2 pages then there ever was when I was doing it! Was I expected to announce to the world that I needed help to get things going again? The guy tasked with this stuff just disspaered into thin air, you'd think they would have clued in on it by themselves.....eventually anyway.

 

So now we have a new modder in the picture with alot of pertinent questions....questions that could have been answered(some anyway) if he actually bothered to go into the only other thread that was relevant to his in the whole damn forum. I get it, you want to blaze your own path to glory, more power to you. You obviously have more clout than me what with people falling over themselves to offer you help. Compared to a rag tag team of 1 & a half animators. But nevermind, I think I can answer your questions better since I've been slav....ahh fuck it.

 

 

 

 

1. Currently it looks like you are setup to have 4 kfs per sex act (2
offensive and 2 defense) with 2 stages per sex act.  Is this a standard
or something that can be ignored?  Currently lovers animations have 4
stages with a total of 8 kf files.  One is the orgasm\cum stage.   If
you can give me some details or point me to where they may be found, so I
can 'bone up' on how Sexout works vs Lovers.

 

Only 3.

A is giver, usually male

B is taker, usully female

C is extra giver, usually only used in 3some animations. Not alot and only males use this since there is no FFM animations yet.

 

There is only one stage, unlike Lovers' multiple stages, Sexout only uses one set of animations per sex act. Its limited but requires less work overall.

 

 

 

2. Lovers has the Daedra Sutra which is a compilation of all existing
sex positions with screen shots.  Does Sexout have something similar or
is there a list lying around somewhere that I can reference to avoid
wasting time trying to port things that may already exist?

 

LOL. This would usually be done by a regular member willing to go the extra mile; you will find none of that here. Asking anyone to lift a finger here is like asking them to give out their first born. No, all we get around here is "ideas". Ideas, ideas, ideas...yeah thanks for the fucking "ideas" pal, we've got enough already. Preview animation in geck I suppose, not ideal but the best way for now.

 

 

 

3. Bouncing breasts.  Do most of your current animations have them or
no?  Currently I am combing through the lovers animations and adding
bouncing breasts to all animations that don't have it (or have it but it
looks bad).  If you do lack BB then I could easily add it to any
existing animations that you need it on.

 

Should be fairly straight forward. My BBB was busted hence why I could never get it to work but I got it fixed and it seems fairly similar(if not identical) to Oblivion from what I remember of reading animation tutorials. MasterChris, the other half in this rag tag team did a tutorial for it but I dont think you need that do you. Looks like someone made an automated system for you....awwww....well isnt that nice, the fellas are just falling all over trying to get a dance with the prettiest thing in the room.

 

 

 

4. Based on what I am seeing in typical NG animations they are about 150
frames in length.  It took me a bit to figure out the folder\file
structure.  The 'a' is the offensive position (referred to as the
'giver' in Sexout) and the 'b' is the defensive position (the 'taker'). 
That part was fairly straight forward, but the part that confused me
was that the 'giver' animation was under kneeling while the taker
animation might be under laying or sit or squat (or vice versa)

 

You can apply your own discreation here. If you have one actor kneeling and one actor standing then you can seperate them up in the folders. I prefer to keep them the same as the "A" actor i.e If the BJ anim is "A" standing and "B" kneeling then I just go with stand even though the B actor is kneeling. The file structure is just Pride trying to keep things tidy, they really have no relavance to anything as far as I can tell.

 

Only the paths from:

 

meshes\characters\_male\idleanims\SexoutNG

                                                                             onwards matter.

 

All the other stuff in the other folders is old stuff or not properly sorted. When you do creature animations the other folders will require looking into but for human nimations none of that is required.

 

Time is up to you. I usually go from as little as 12 frames to high 90s. Usually I try to get in under 4-5 secs time.

 

 

Other stuff.

 

Adding animations.

 

Its just about adding new animations into the tables and letting SexoutRandomise know that there is new animation to choose from. I have done this and it seems to work....of course this would have been know if people actually looked in my thread once in a while. I have made an esp that, for now, seems to work fairly well. Idk if this is all it takes, someone with more knwoledge will let you know if it isnt.

 

The process for adding animations is the same as the one explained in the SexoutNG thread for modders to test out newly added animations or you can use the ZAZ tutorial by MasterChris in.........wait for it........my thread. The process is same and once you use the example in there and compare it to geck you will figure it out, its deceptively easy. I can offer more clarifications if needed.

 

Anyway I'll wringe my hands of any suggestion to add new animations to Sexout, not worth the irratation personally. Its up to you now to get the SexoutNG going again. If this goes tits up as well then we're all fucked. Even though I used an esp I think trying to use the Sexout esm is better, having a seperate esp will cause confusion and conflict. Idk how to edit esms but Im sure someone knows. Good luck.

 

If in doubt; look to Pride. He did a good job of detailing alot of this stuff, you just have to dig for it.

[ChancellorKremlin]

A fairly unnecessary outburst there, beck11.

 

Nobody's asked you to "remove yourself from the queue" as you put it yourself. Your condescending and insulting tone is also less than admirable. I think you need to take into account for a long, long time, Sexout users have operated under the premise that Oblivion anims were simply not portable into Sexout, so is it really surprising people get excited when we're told otherwise?

 

Also, I'm sorry if you feel Greg/Gerra stepped over your toes (which I'm sure neither had the intention of doing) - but neither are Sexout forum regulars, do you really blame them for not knowing that YOU are the resident animator? I mean, seriously? Your're taking offense for that? That's petty.

 

I also find your insulting remarks towards users (and contributors!) of the Sexout forum entirely unnecessary, uncalled for and to be honest with you, a little pathetic and self absorbed. When you requested users to lend you a hand with testing a few animations, few raised the call, true, but the call was answered regardless, and I was one of those people. So I take your comment that "no-one here lefts a finger" a little personally. (Not to mention its a slap on the face of anybody else who helped you there...) I'm sorry you feel the help I gave you was insufficient, but lately time has been a bit constrained for me, so I do what I can. Sorry it wasn't enough, apparently. I'll remember that in the future.

 

Lastly, if you wish to quit over animating for Sexout, knock yourself out. With that attitude, that's a perfectly understandable and welcome development. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for your efforts, (as I'm sure everybody else here is) but regardless of perceived or actual slights, treating and abusing fellow contributors in that manner is unacceptable.