Skyrim SexLab and VR

[FurrySpirit]

12 hours ago, prog0111 said:

AnimObjects not being displayed on the player will probably be a tough one, as will either preventing jumping or blocking the jump animation from playing during 3rd person modes.  Those two issues are things I'll have to dig into with the debugger to see if I can come up with a fixes for you guys.

 

I'm trying to push for a VRIK build 13 now, though.  Hopefully this build unlocks the gesture system for use by other mods (SL).  With that, Reikiri should be able to hook VRIK gestures up to scene controls if he wants to.

 

Right now gestures are working with Joystick buttons on Rift/Index/(probably WMR), Vive Wand Trackpad taps, and the Index Touchpads (Index gets to have twice as many gestures per hand).  I also added a quick gesture action to retrieve/store held items, and another to cycle through held items.  The outfit gestures should be fully working already in build 12 already.  I have also unlocked Rift Touch Controller style input to Skyrim, and got it working on Index Controllers.  I probably won't do hand IK until V0.9.0, but I've decided to fully expose that data to mods in the meantime.  For Index, users will require the VRIK 2.0 bindings to take advantage of gestures going forward (others compatible bindings can also be made).  I don't know if Reikiri will want to put that on the top of the thread or not, but I'll post a link to it here later.  There's some SteamVR rebinding that will be necessary to get touchpads working until I get this all finalized, so I'll probably post screenshots of what settings to change if anyone wants to help test.

prog0111, you are doing amazing work, thank you for that!

But could you please add functions to the VRIK API layer to control transparency of player body? Won't it be really dificult since as far as I understand, you've already implemented opacity for player's head in VRIK based on distance.

It'll help a lot to ppl like me, who have some physical issues with VRIK usage, but may need it for 3rd person view expirience.

[prinyo]

2 hours ago, FurrySpirit said:

It'll help a lot to ppl like me, who have some physical issues with VRIK usage

Can you explain in more detail what is the problem you experience? Maybe prog will be able to fix it and that will be a win-win solution. 

Because he already said " hard nope" to the request to add features that contradict the purpose of the mod. And there is now a working clone option exactly for this reason.

 

In all cases it is better to try to fix the actual problem you are experiencing with VRIK instead of asking for a workaround.

[FurrySpirit]

22 minutes ago, prinyo said:

Can you explain in more detail what is the problem you experience? Maybe prog will be able to fix it and that will be a win-win solution. 

 

When I make a step and see that VR leg moves not synchronosely with real one and don't feel touches of dressings my brain think that I have halucinations and reacts as if they may be invoked by some poisonous food so evolutionally the best behavior in that situation is to try emptying my stomach. I don't think that prog0111 may do something with it =)

[prinyo]

1 hour ago, FurrySpirit said:

When I make a step and see that VR leg moves not synchronosely with real one

I'm curious why are you staring at your feet when you walk? I mean I also get lightheaded and a dis-balanced feeling when I look at my VRIK feet while walking or running, but this never occurs in a normal gameplay. But it does seem the clone version that Reikiri added yesterday will be the best option for you.

 

By the way I'm not trying to reply instead of prog, I'm just trying to understand what are the reasonable parameters of user demands. In my mind providing  the clone option is a reasonable way to allow people who do not want to use VRIK for one reason or another to enjoy SL in VR.

An option that was provided exactly after prog said " hard nope" to exactly the same question. And Reikiri provided a really advanced version - with the additions to the MCM to control the scene, so by using it you get all the functionality of the "other" patch minus the VRIK specific functionality.

So there is no reason not to use the clone version if you do not want to see the VRIK body.

 

[prog0111]

2 hours ago, FurrySpirit said:

When I make a step and see that VR leg moves not synchronosely with real one and don't feel touches of dressings my brain think that I have halucinations and reacts as if they may be invoked by some poisonous food so evolutionally the best behavior in that situation is to try emptying my stomach. I don't think that prog0111 may do something with it ?

I'm afraid there's little to nothing I can do about that.  Even if I added support for extra trackers for feet, it won't be perfect and the illusion will break the moment an animation plays.  I would like to try and fix the issue you have with teleportation if I can, but I can't promise anything there.  It really depends on how Skyrim does the teleport - if it happens before or after they position and animate the body.  There's a few things that are nearly impossible to make frame-perfect.  Head bobbing for example took many releases and some pretty technical hacks to get right.

 

I do plan on improving the body posture a bit - I manage to make it a bit better with every release.  I've noticed the spell casting posture in particular is a bit off-balance, so I'd like to fix that up.

 

As for hiding the body, that's something I just won't do since it goes against the entire purpose of the mod.  The method I use to display the body isn't something that can be easily toggled on and off either.  

[FurrySpirit]

Ok. Thnx.

Then it's time for me to try creating a mod that will hide a body.

Does anyone have ideas how to do it?

The only way I see is to make wearable item that will somehow selectively corrupt/replace meshes to achive something like this https://www.loverslab.com/topic/105049-skyrim-problem-invisible-body/

But I'm not sure if there are some hard bindings between item slots and body meshes, I mean existance of posibility to bind custom mesh for, as an exsmple, feets to item weared in custom slot.

 

Also I though about some kind of spell that will make the body invisible, but:

1. I didn't manage to find any mods with similar spell/effect to decompile.

2. It'll be hard to keep hands visible.

 

Any suggestions from modding gurus?

 

 

[reikiri]

2 hours ago, FurrySpirit said:

Ok. Thnx.

Then it's time for me to try creating a mod that will hide a body.

Does anyone have ideas how to do it?

The only way I see is to make wearable item that will somehow selectively corrupt/replace meshes to achive something like this https://www.loverslab.com/topic/105049-skyrim-problem-invisible-body/

But I'm not sure if there are some hard bindings between item slots and body meshes, I mean existance of posibility to bind custom mesh for, as an exsmple, feets to item weared in custom slot.

 

Also I though about some kind of spell that will make the body invisible, but:

1. I didn't manage to find any mods with similar spell/effect to decompile.

2. It'll be hard to keep hands visible.

 

Any suggestions from modding gurus?

 

 

Kind of beyond scope of this thread, but I'll say this much: I believe the technically simplest way would be to decide what armors you are wearing throughout the game - use non-replacing armor mods so no NPC will ever wear those, and simply use the ones that are by their stats closest to armors you find/make inside the game. And then make those armors you use invisible. You'll need body and foot armors like that, you don't need to worry about head since you can already hide that - and you want the hands to be visible.

 

Doing it like that isn't something I'd call a 'mod', more like a 'workaround', but you should be able to get the result you want without needing to mess with too many things. And having SL strip away your body/foot wear will automatically make the body visible for the animations.

 

There is no technical limitation that I know regarding what slot appears where, but wearing a second 'invisible' armor that appears on your body area doesn't make the first one invisible e.g. you can't normally make one piece of armor hide another - but you should be able to make an armor hide body/foot mesh, and then make that armor itself invisible (have no visible mesh).

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/22168

is an example of mod that you could use to make the non-replacing armors (use the 'standalone' install option), and it would have all the normal armors available - even with option to simply convert any armor you find in game to the 'pc only version', which you'd then make invisible by changing the nif files (you could simply use the same invisible nif for all the pc-only armors).

 

I think body/foot slot armor automatically hides the body/foot mesh, so all you'd really need to do (I think) is to use nifskope to delete/hide all the visible meshes in some simple armor, and then use that invisible mesh to replace any body/foot armor meshes you want to make invisible (copy it to replace the original).

[prinyo]

4 hours ago, FurrySpirit said:

Then it's time for me to try creating a mod that will hide a body.

Just out of curiosity - what is the problem with the clone that you are willing to spend so much time finding workarounds? Specific feedback always helps to make things better.

[reikiri]

28 minutes ago, prinyo said:

Just out of curiosity - what is the problem with the clone that you are willing too spend so much time finding workarounds? Specific feedback always helps to make things better.

If I wanted to use strictly just the 3rd person mode (e.g. either 3rd person or clone), then the biggest drawback at this time IMO would be the lack of control gestures that come with VRIK. They seem to be working fine in next build (13) but I didn't put it up yet because there's an issue with near distance setting, hopefully can drop it in tomorrow. It's going to need index controller users to change bindings in steam VR if they want to use the gestures, but prog made instructions with screenshots.

[prinyo]

1 hour ago, reikiri said:

If I wanted to use strictly just the 3rd person mode (e.g. either 3rd person or clone), then the biggest drawback at this time IMO would be the lack of control gestures that come with VRIK.

So it is a VRIK question. Basically if you can't decide if you want to use VRIK or not then you will need to come up with crazy solutions. Seems to me the best way to fix this is for the bindings to become it's own mod as they are not really related to VRIK as a body mod. VRIK is now "everything prog" and it is not a body mod anymore, but a collection of unrelated mods in one - a body mod, a knuckles mod, holsters mod and a gestures mod - 4 different mods in one.

Not that I'm complaining, but I guess the question is is it fair to have people who are too sensitive to use the body part of VRIK to also be denied the non-body mods. I mean - Beethoven wrote several symphonies, didn't put all the music he wanted to write in one ?

[prog0111]

2 hours ago, prinyo said:

So it is a VRIK question. Basically if you can't decide if you want to use VRIK or not then you will need to come up with crazy solutions. Seems to me the best way to fix this is for the bindings to become it's own mod as they are not really related to VRIK as a body mod. VRIK is now "everything prog" and it is not a body mod anymore, but a collection of unrelated mods in one - a body mod, a knuckles mod, holsters mod and a gestures mod - 4 different mods in one.

Not that I'm complaining, but I guess the question is is it fair to have people who are too sensitive to use the body part of VRIK to also be denied the non-body mods. I mean - Beethoven wrote several symphonies, didn't put all the music he wanted to write in one ?

I don't think that's really fair.  The entire concept behind VRIK holsters is that you store weapons on the body - it's not a system that would ever work without VRIK.  It would also be nearly impossible to make it as a separate mod because holsters must be positioned and animated relative to the body.  Eventually I want to animate unsheathing in first person, too.  I've got ambitions haha

 

The VRIK Index Bindings are indeed a separate mod, and don't require VRIK to be used.  They have some magic to them though, which enable VRIK itself to detect inputs that it otherwise could not.  It's also pretty hard to make Index bindings, and mine have become pretty widely used - might as well make them robust...

 

Gestures will eventually use the body to display activation effects, and will permit hand pose input that VRIK will animate (though that's probably not coming in V0.8.0).  Its only really possible because I had to design a pretty crazy input system for holsters in the first place.  This is also the "mod support release" primarily for you guys - check VRIK.psc in build 13 and you'll see that I'm now exposing most of the overhauled input system to Papyrus.  On top of all that, believe it or not, "spell holsters" are my most-requested feature...  This is my answer to that.

[prinyo]

21 hours ago, prog0111 said:

On top of all that, believe it or not, "spell holsters" are my most-requested feature... 

Yes, I was one of those who requested it and I'm sure other also have. It would be really helpful, but I'm not sure how it will work visually.

 

The whole comment was really interesting to read and the planned additions sound really cool. And it was interesting to read how all of this comes together.  I think at the end you will turn Skyrim into the only VR game with a proper player agency/presence in the game world.

 

I believe the last row of comments have been really helpful in giving an idea about the options for using Sl in VR with or without VRIK.

 

@reikiri , the link to the clone option says deprecated, but I can't  find a newer link?

 

[reikiri]

1 hour ago, prinyo said:

Yes, I was one of those who requested it and I'm sure other also have. It would be really helpful, but I'm not sure how it will work visually.

 

The whole comment was really interesting to read and the planned additions sound really cool. And it was interesting to read how all of this comes together.  I think at the end you will turn Skyrim into the only VR game with a proper player agency/presence in the game world.

 

I believe the last row of comments have been really helpful in giving an idea about the options for using Sl in VR with or without VRIK.

 

@reikiri , the link to the clone option says deprecated, but I can't  find a newer link?

 

It says deptecated because it's old version (v26) of the mod, and I didn't want anyone who just quickly scans through the posts to grab it thinking it's the latest version of mod I just posted there. It's the latest version that still had the clone, but in context of the mod as a whole it's old/deprecated, as in feature that was dropped out, and no longer maintained. If you want to turn it into something that's actually maintained/updated, you're free to do so - that would make the version you put out a new/not deprecated one.

[Kokuru]

Hi geat work ?.

 

I have two suggestions,

 

If sexlab plays a scene, the vr patch sets options in vrik to disable body for example.

Is it possible for the vr patch to do this also, if other animations take the control away from the player, like something from dd for example?

 

Another thing.

If i disable arm, body, posture and lock the hmd to body, the animations from dd work great, but after a normal sexlab scene, vrik gets set back to default

Could you implement something to revert back to my settings?

 

 

[reikiri]

8 hours ago, Kokuru said:

Hi geat work ?.

 

I have two suggestions,

 

If sexlab plays a scene, the vr patch sets options in vrik to disable body for example.

Is it possible for the vr patch to do this also, if other animations take the control away from the player, like something from dd for example?

 

Another thing.

If i disable arm, body, posture and lock the hmd to body, the animations from dd work great, but after a normal sexlab scene, vrik gets set back to default

Could you implement something to revert back to my settings?

 

 

1) There is no easy way for the patch to know when another mod (such as DD) wants to have the body disabled, unless the mod tells it so. There's API function in main script that can accomplish this ( SexLabFramework.SetVrSettings( ) ), but it'll need a patch or change in the other mod that calls it.

 

2) Is sort of related. When animating, SL changes some of the VRIK settings (posture and body among other things), and after finishing it tells VRIK to load back it's normal settings which resets the temporary tweaks SL did. VRIK probably never actually saves some of the values (like disabling body and posture) done outside the animation, because they essentially make the VR body broken for normal use. There's no easy way for me to restore back the settings VRIK doesn't save. The right way to do this would still be the 1).

[prog0111]

This is just a quick note on the new VRIK Index Bindings.  After installing them into Skyrim, you'll also need to configure the bindings in SteamVR.  Unfortunately, community bindings in SteamVR have recently been broken for all games, so it has to be done manually right now...  I made some screenshots of the correct configuration, and placed them into the VRIK Index Bindings V2.0 archive to help guide everyone.  First find those screenshots inside the bindings mod.

 

Click the SteamVR settings button -> Devices -> Controller Settings.  Valve changed the menus a bit recently.  If you're on the SteamVR beta, you'll then go to "Manage Controller Bindings", click the Drop Down, pick SkyrimVR, pick Index, and edit the binding.  Otherwise just pick SkyrimVR from the list of games.  You then need to create a new binding, and copy what you see in my screenshots into the interface.  Make sure to do all the touch inputs too, VRIK uses those too now.  It's really not too bad, but don't hesitate to ask me if you need a bit of help with this and feel free to leave any feedback.

[reikiri]

Also a little bit of an 'oh crap'... ?

I left an especially spammy piece of debug code in one script - it'll log a line every half second on vrik.log during animations. You may want to empty that log from time to time anyway since it's never cleared automatically (SKSE/Plugins/vrik.log).  fixed it, and re-uploaded v29 as '29c' in the OP. Also replaced the new version on mega. v29 works fine otherwise, it just creates a lot of unnecessary lines into log.

[prinyo]

I played a mod that requires DD yesterday and it seems to me the "wearable" devices do not work. They work on the NPCs, but not on the player. I wonder if somebody else has made it work.

 

15 hours ago, Kokuru said:

Is it possible for the vr patch to do this also, if other animations take the control away from the player, like something from dd for example?

If i disable arm, body, posture and lock the hmd to body, the animations from dd work great, but after a normal sexlab scene, vrik gets set back to default

Could you implement something to revert back to my settings?

With an usual DD-dependent mod you have a situation where not only SL but also ZAZ and DD itself send animation events. So it is 3 different mods. I took a look at DD and here is how I imagine patching it with the API function Reikiri added to the SL patch will happen.

 

There are several files in the DD group of mods that send animation events. Lets take for example zadLibs.psc. It has a function called StartThirdPersonAnimation() where there is a line 

    Debug.SendAnimationEvent(akActor, animation)

 

We need to call the new API function just before that, so the code becomes

If akActor == PlayerRef
	SexLabFramework.SetVrSettings() 
EndIf
Debug.SendAnimationEvent(akActor, animation)

This will change all appropriate settings of VRIK so the scene wil play in accordance to the settings in the SL MCM menu.

 

And then there is the function in the same file that handles the end of the animation: EndThirdPersonAnimation(). It has to be updted in a similar way:

Debug.SendAnimationEvent(akActor, "IdleForceDefaultState")
If akActor == PlayerRef
	SexLabFramework.SetVrSettings(enabled=false) 
EndIf

This will tell SL to reset the VRIK settings to their "normal" state - for use outside of an animation.

I believe it is safe to call the function this way, so when in doubt it is better to call it.

 

So you don't need to hardcode the calls for VRIK settings changes all over the mods - you can just use the API function and set your preferences in the MCM of SL.

 

In short - every time the mod sends an animation event to an actor the SL API function should be called in some way - with no parameters at start and with enabled=false at the end.

 

It is also important that the animation events are different from the potential limitations a mod would want to impose on the player ( "take the control away" ). I have the feeling VRIK offers more options than Flatrim in this regard.

 

I'm not sure if somebody is working on patches yet or not.

 

 

Added:

I was thinking about game.ForceThirdPerson(). It can now be replaced by the API function in the patch with the settings for the 3rd person view preset. And it should work. But I'm wondering why would a mod need to force 3rd person view?

[reikiri]

2 hours ago, prinyo said:

Added:

I was thinking about game.ForceThirdPerson(). It can now be replaced by the API function in the patch with the settings for the 3rd person view preset. And it should work. But I'm wondering why would a mod need to force 3rd person view?

No reason that I can think - and probably trying to force it would make a bunch of people unhappy. Flatrim has the same issue that vanilla Skyrim VR has - namely it doesn't really have useful 1st person body.. so you'll need to run animations in 3rd person for them to make sense. Difference is VR doesn't really even have a 3rd person mode to use (thus the initial problem trying to run SL in VR). I think the ForceThirdPerson call is disabled in Skyrim VR, and trying to use the free camera mode just breaks things.

2 hours ago, prinyo said:

It is also important that the animation events are different from the potential limitations a mod would want to impose on the player ( "take the control away" ). I have the feeling VRIK offers more options than Flatrim in this regard

DD is a bit of a special case, in that it has a lot of play with different kinds of restraints - all the way to posture collars that prevent you from turning your head around. I think you'd have to override the hand mode on the api call to always disable tracking them - or at least do it any time there's any kind of wrist/arm restraints on the player (or recognize animations that include the restraints).

 

DD probably works better than some other mods with props, since often the restraints it uses are "real" (e.g. actual wearable items) instead of just animObjects - although it does use those too (things like pillory I think).

 

I'm not entirely sure how well the restraints otherwise would work.. possibly leaving arms disabled would allow you to keep them locked with restraint pose outside the animations, but I'm not sure how well that would work in practice for gameplay - you can't exactly restrain the controllers themselves, and skyrim VR combat system relies on controller swings for attacks, so implementing the bound combat (that in DD I think uses kicks) would be difficult to do right. Not impossible, just difficult. ^.^

[prinyo]

8 minutes ago, reikiri said:

Flatrim has the same issue that vanilla Skyrim VR has - namely it doesn't really have useful 1st person body.. so you'll need to run animations in 3rd person for them to make sense

Hmm, yep, I see how this can be a reason to force 3rd person so the player understand what is going on.

 

Speaking of 3rd person - I think VRIK is very close to enabling a 3rd person view in the game. What you see when you disable VRIK in it's MCM is very close, just the camera needs to be positioned a bit further and higher. Just a thought ?

[reikiri]

2 hours ago, prinyo said:

Hmm, yep, I see how this can be a reason to force 3rd person so the player understand what is going on.

 

Speaking of 3rd person - I think VRIK is very close to enabling a 3rd person view in the game. What you see when you disable VRIK in it's MCM is very close, just the camera needs to be positioned a bit further and higher. Just a thought ?

Visually yes, although technically it's entirely different 'mode' in game. If you look at meshes/actors/character/character assets folder, for 1stpersonfemalebody nifs, they are just arms. That's all the 1st person body is.. and it uses different set of animations too. Swaping from 1st to 3rd person mode, swaps the nif used to display the body - so originally in first person mode all you see is the arms. VRIK kind of manually makes the 3rd person body visible in 1st person mode, and then takes control of it to animate it in reasonable way (or releases control but leaves it visible, allowing other mods, such as SL, a way to animate it). If you enable the "disable all VRIK systems" in VRIK MCM, you'll see what the 3rd person body normally does in Skyrim VR (VRIK then still makes it visible, while it normally would be invisible, but doesn't in any other way interfere with what it does)

 

Technically I guess you'd simply need to set the 'above' value of VRIK to high value to move viewpoint over the body, and set the "view in front" (don't remember what exactly it was called) value to sufficiently high negative value to move it behind the body.. and you'd have a sort of 3rd person view. You'd have to disable head and arm tracking to avoid really strange stretchy things - or you'd need to make offsets to head and arm positions that would match the displacement of HMD from the head. Technically I believe it would be feasible, in practice I'm not sure how people would feel about it. Personally, I think I might like it a lot, but I'm strange that way. I have practically infinite tolerance against VR motion sickness, and I don't feel in any way 'strange' about seeing the body move out of sync with me.

[jensern]

Prog, there is a werewolf problem with these builds. I have tried 0.8v12 and 0.8v15, and both of these makes Werewolf-to-Nord transformation crash. I can transform successful to Werewolf, just not back. I have not tried the previous dev builds on LL.

 

If I go back to latest release on Nexus, it works fine.

 

This could be because I use a mod that transform back to naked, but that should really not be a problem.

 

 

[jensern]

1 hour ago, reikiri said:

Visually yes, although technically it's entirely different 'mode' in game. If you look at meshes/actors/character/character assets folder, for 1stpersonfemalebody nifs, they are just arms. That's all the 1st person body is.. and it uses different set of animations too. Swaping from 1st to 3rd person mode, swaps the nif used to display the body - so originally in first person mode all you see is the arms. VRIK kind of manually makes the 3rd person body visible in 1st person mode, and then takes control of it to animate it in reasonable way (or releases control but leaves it visible, allowing other mods, such as SL, a way to animate it). If you enable the "disable all VRIK systems" in VRIK MCM, you'll see what the 3rd person body normally does in Skyrim VR (VRIK then still makes it visible, while it normally would be invisible, but doesn't in any other way interfere with what it does)

 

Technically I guess you'd simply need to set the 'above' value of VRIK to high value to move viewpoint over the body, and set the "view in front" (don't remember what exactly it was called) value to sufficiently high negative value to move it behind the body.. and you'd have a sort of 3rd person view. You'd have to disable head and arm tracking to avoid really strange stretchy things - or you'd need to make offsets to head and arm positions that would match the displacement of HMD from the head. Technically I believe it would be feasible, in practice I'm not sure how people would feel about it. Personally, I think I might like it a lot, but I'm strange that way. I have practically infinite tolerance against VR motion sickness, and I don't feel in any way 'strange' about seeing the body move out of sync with me.

My understanding is that your vanity clone does not interact with the world, though is does attract fire and NPCs looks at it when talking.

[prog0111]

For stuff like DD, I'd advise adding a bit of API to SL itself.  Something like "SetArmsRestrained()" ...  This way SL knows that the arms are supposed to be disabled.  If SL knew that, it could override the player's MCM setting for arm control while a restraint is worn.  When animation finishes and SL does its VRIK.RestoreSettings() call, it could then check for arm restraints and just disable the arms again automatically.  It would need to be up to the DD mod to tell SL what's going on.

40 minutes ago, jensern said:

Prog, there is a werewolf problem with these builds. I have tried 0.8v12 and 0.8v15, and both of these makes Werewolf-to-Nord transformation crash. I can transform successful to Werewolf, just not back. I have not tried the previous dev builds on LL.

 

If I go back to latest release on Nexus, it works fine.

 

This could be because I use a mod that transform back to naked, but that should really not be a problem.

 

 

Somehow I manage to break the transformation and then fix it again at the last second before every single release...  Sigh.  Transforms are hard to deal with because they change so much - even the player skeleton that VRIK operates on gets swapped all of a sudden.  Thanks for letting me know - its not a bug I can release V0.8.0 with.

[prinyo]

1 hour ago, prog0111 said:

For stuff like DD, I'd advise adding a bit of API to SL itself.  Something like "SetArmsRestrained()" ... 

You can call

SexLabFramework.SetVrSettings(trackHands=0)