Whiterun Revisited WIP

[EinarrTheRed]

Not on the conversion, and there's not much related to @t.ara stuff in the core mod (T.ara did help with me with modifying some furniture for Breezehome though, nothing BDSM related, just some new seating).  @Blackbird Wanderer was actually the one who did the test conversion and I have to say the mod looks even better in SE.  Load times are faster as well (with more memory there's not as much texture swapping going on).  That's another thing I've been working on when time allows, reducing the number of new textures used and re-using existing WR textures where I can to cut down on memory use and load times in LE as much as I can.

 

Once I get the core mod done I do plan an adult content add on, and some of T.ara's stuff will likely get used for that.

 

[EinarrTheRed]

Okay, I got some screen shots of some of the new stuff, particularly the fortifications.

 

Before I get the the pics, a word about how this developed and what I was trying to do.  Also, some history.

 

If you look at ES Lore, turns out Whiterun has been an inhabited location for more than 4,000 years going back to the Merethic.  That's a long time and its created layers of history.  I was looking at the walls around Whiterun and I felt like they didn't really convey that very well.  After some discussion with my development team, and @karlpaws in particular (we're both love castles) I decided I wanted to add some additional fortifications to Whiterun's walls.  They didn't have to be functional, their purpose was more to convey that a) it was once heavily fortified but over hundreds (literally thousands of years) those have aged, been damaged and crumbled and a lot of it wasn't maintained, b) I wanted to keep it in a style that fit Whiterun, and c) I wanted to use existing WR assets to create some sort of battlements... which it doesn't actually have so I'd have to invent something using what was available.

 

What I came up with was some additional outworks, ruined and crumbling towers, and some improvised "battlements" made out of stone columns and an interior wall with an arched window.

 

Also, since my development team has been trying out different texture replacers, that revealed some new issues and I've also been working to keep "wall" stuff using the default WR wall texture and roads using the default WR road and so forth... that way no matter what texture replacer you use, at least all the walls use the same wall material, road the road material and so forth so things look consistent regardless.

 

Okay... on with the pictorial tour.

 

So you just arrived at Whiterun by the carriage and you look up and see this.

Spoiler

Other than Lilith Maiden-looms new house on the left it mostly looks the same as what you know.  One of my core goals is to keep this the Whiterun you know, just better.  As you move up you'll start seeing all that has changed.

 

Passing through that first gate if you look to the left you'll see this...

Spoiler

Skulvar at the stables talks about having horses for sale... plural.  But there's only one in the stable.  Where are all those other horses I wondered?  Well there they are, the stables now have this large paddock area with more horses and they roam around the whole paddock during the day.  Jervar sometimes comes here and does chores.  There are multiple small gates around the perimeter so you can still get through it on the way somewhere else if you need to.  The whole area is fully navmeshed.

 

Turning around we come to the first set of fortifications I added.  This wall, you may recall, originally was completely open with a wooden walkway leading down to a fortified room that made up half of the next gate house.  I always thought that was nuts, it means to reinforce that side of the gate defenders have to rush down that walkway completely exposed to bow fire from attackers.  So I fixed it.

Spoiler

But rather than a fully restored defensive outwork I made it crumbling and old with a lot of ivy.  I wanted to convey the age of this place and that things have not been well taken care off over all those centuries.  The walkway is still there but now there's a partial defensive wall, arches that archers CAN fire through and use for cover.  Should make the Battle of Whiterun a lil more interesting for attacking Stormcloaks.

 

Further up was an area where we had some guard posts and a path and then just a rock cliff.  But there was nothing stopping attackers from coming around and on those rocks and attacking down on the defenders.  So... I fixed that too... sorta.

Spoiler

Now we have a crumbling wall and what's left of some ruined towers from days gone by when these outworks were in much better shape.  More recently a wooden palisade was added to fill in part of the gap.  This gives the guards more protection, prevents attackers circling around (well, not entirely ?) and also I think it just looks better.

 

Then we come to the main gate.

Spoiler

You might spot those new "arched" battlements.  Originally the wall was just a low wall and there was an invisible collison barrier there that meant you couldn't jump over it but you also couldn't shoot over it.  Well, I removed that barrier and added these battlements, navmeshed it including cover edges so NPC will know how to use it for cover and where they can fire through.  Handy spot if a dragon is attacking the stables below, you can use that for a good firing spot for ranged attacks.

 

Before I take the tour inside Whiterun, I want to share a few pics outside and explain a bit of what you're seeing.

 

This first one is just behind the new horse paddock looking up at the new Spring District from outside Whiterun.

Spoiler

 

This next one is moving around to the North of Whiterun looking back at the Spring District.  You probably recognize the bandit camp in the cliff face which should help provide some reference as to where things are.

Spoiler

You can also see some of the new fortifications around Dragonsreach, I add more around that area than anywhere else and they're in better shape (not great shape, but better) because it is afterall the Jarl's residence.

 

This is a closer look at part of those new Dragonsreach fortifications.

Spoiler

You may note the arched theme in the walls, from the arches on the tower to the battlements to the structure of Dragonsreach itself above.  I was trying to maintain continuity in the style of architecture so that everything I added blended and remained in the "Whiterun style" that makes this city unique from other Hold capitals in Skyrim.

 

Moving around to the other side of Dragonsreach some more fortifications.

Spoiler

You may notice that part of the new fortifications looks like some sort of building.  It is, its the storehouse for Dragonsreach.  I imagined that once Dragonsreach was like a castle keep, and like all such keeps it would have had storehouses for food and supplies in the event of a siege.  The storehouse, like everything else, isn't what it once was but it was an addition that I felt helped make the area around Dragonsreach, especially when you're on the inside of the city, feel more "solid".

 

So going inside Whiterun I've added things here an there.  The guard barracks behind the Bannered Mare is built into the base of a tower.  I dressed up the top of it.

Spoiler

 

Here's another look from behind the Bannered Mare

Spoiler

You can see some more of my "battlements" along the wall and above in the area around Jorvaskr.  The top of the tower is in bad shape, which since the top part is inaccessible that makes sense as to why its inaccessible.

 

One more look this time standing right in front of Jorvaskr

Spoiler

Whiterun tower is falling down... falling down... falling down... my fair lady!

 

Turning around we're looking up at the Skyforge and Dragonsreach above.

Spoiler

On the right you see the end of the new storehouse, its a big structure.

 

Standing inside the Spring District again looking up at Dragonsreach above we can see still more new fortifications.

Spoiler

You may note the new watch tower in the wall around Dragonsreach, not only is it possible to look down into the Spring District from there, you can fire down or hop the wall and jump down.

 

And then near the Gildergreen we're looking up the stairs to Dragonsreach.  I was limited in what I could do here because a lot of that stuff (the front wall, the two big wooden columns and the stone walk) are all one mesh so I had to work around some things.  So I decided to make it look like maybe once there was a more solid stone fortification, maybe once there was even a stone gate house, but that's all crumbling or crumbled away over the centuries and now we have this.

Spoiler

I added some arches over the waterfalls coming out of the wall to help give it thickness and make it look more interesting and perhaps stronger, the stairs up are flanked by two ruined towers that once would have protected the approach.  My goal was to make it feel like you were entering what was once a very fortified keep or citadel, but its old and falling apart and hasn't been maintained.  These walls have weathered both centuries of time and many attacks and succession wars (Skyrim has a pretty violent history and Whiterun is no exception).

 

Reaching the top of the stairs and looking left you see this.

Spoiler

I'm still developing the area around Dragonsreach so this is all unfinished but you're seeing a tower that will be used for... something. ?  That raised area with the trellis over it has a particular purpose you'll find out more about later and there's a small wooded copse behind it.

 

Turning to the right we see this.

Spoiler

The covered area is visited by NPCs and later on there are plans to have thanes and merchants meeting here, perhaps conducting business with each other or arranging supplies to be brought to the storehouse.  The area in front and behind the shelter will be a garden area I'm still very much working on.  This is the only area in Whiterun I actually plan to have a manicured garden... its the Jarl's garden of course.

 

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So there you have it, another peek at what's happening and how things are shaping up.   Tomorrow is Monday and I have some time blocked out this week to work on getting Three Shields House finished and those NPCs in.  I still have a lot of work to do to get Breezehome finished and the new upgrade process working and there's a lot to do outside Whiterun still.  I still can't give an ETA on an initial release but I will say I'm aiming to have that out sometime this year.

 

Feel free to leave feedback, its still a work in progress.

 

If I can get a new headset and mic I may look into doing some video tours.

[DonQuiWho]

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Okay, I got some screen shots of some of the new stuff, particularly the fortifications.

 

Before I get the the pics, a word about how this developed and what I was trying to do.  Also, some history.

 

If you look at ES Lore, turns out Whiterun has been an inhabited location for more than 4,000 years going back to the Merethic.  That's a long time and its created layers of history.  I was looking at the walls around Whiterun and I felt like they didn't really convey that very well.  After some discussion with my development team, and @karlpaws in particular (we're both love castles) I decided I wanted to add some additional fortifications to Whiterun's walls.  They didn't have to be functional, their purpose was more to convey that a) it was once heavily fortified but over hundreds (literally thousands of years) those have aged, been damaged and crumbled and a lot of it wasn't maintained, b) I wanted to keep it in a style that fit Whiterun, and c) I wanted to use existing WR assets to create some sort of battlements... which it doesn't actually have so I'd have to invent something using what was available.

 

What I came up with was some additional outworks, ruined and crumbling towers, and some improvised "battlements" made out of stone columns and an interior wall with an arched window.

 

Also, since my development team has been trying out different texture replacers, that revealed some new issues and I've also been working to keep "wall" stuff using the default WR wall texture and roads using the default WR road and so forth... that way no matter what texture replacer you use, at least all the walls use the same wall material, road the road material and so forth so things look consistent regardless.

 

Okay... on with the pictorial tour.

 

So you just arrived at Whiterun by the carriage and you look up and see this.

  Hide contents

Other than Lilith Maiden-looms new house on the left it mostly looks the same as what you know.  One of my core goals is to keep this the Whiterun you know, just better.  As you move up you'll start seeing all that has changed.

 

Passing through that first gate if you look to the left you'll see this...

  Hide contents

Skulvar at the stables talks about having horses for sale... plural.  But there's only one in the stable.  Where are all those other horses I wondered?  Well there they are, the stables now have this large paddock area with more horses and they roam around the whole paddock during the day.  Jervar sometimes comes here and does chores.  There are multiple small gates around the perimeter so you can still get through it on the way somewhere else if you need to.  The whole area is fully navmeshed.

 

Turning around we come to the first set of fortifications I added.  This wall, you may recall, originally was completely open with a wooden walkway leading down to a fortified room that made up half of the next gate house.  I always thought that was nuts, it means to reinforce that side of the gate defenders have to rush down that walkway completely exposed to bow fire from attackers.  So I fixed it.

  Hide contents

But rather than a fully restored defensive outwork I made it crumbling and old with a lot of ivy.  I wanted to convey the age of this place and that things have not been well taken care off over all those centuries.  The walkway is still there but now there's a partial defensive wall, arches that archers CAN fire through and use for cover.  Should make the Battle of Whiterun a lil more interesting for attacking Stormcloaks.

 

Further up was an area where we had some guard posts and a path and then just a rock cliff.  But there was nothing stopping attackers from coming around and on those rocks and attacking down on the defenders.  So... I fixed that too... sorta.

  Hide contents

Now we have a crumbling wall and what's left of some ruined towers from days gone by when these outworks were in much better shape.  More recently a wooden palisade was added to fill in part of the gap.  This gives the guards more protection, prevents attackers circling around (well, not entirely ?) and also I think it just looks better.

 

Then we come to the main gate.

  Hide contents

You might spot those new "arched" battlements.  Originally the wall was just a low wall and there was an invisible collison barrier there that meant you couldn't jump over it but you also couldn't shoot over it.  Well, I removed that barrier and added these battlements, navmeshed it including cover edges so NPC will know how to use it for cover and where they can fire through.  Handy spot if a dragon is attacking the stables below, you can use that for a good firing spot for ranged attacks.

 

Before I take the tour inside Whiterun, I want to share a few pics outside and explain a bit of what you're seeing.

 

This first one is just behind the new horse paddock looking up at the new Spring District from outside Whiterun.

  Hide contents

 

This next one is moving around to the North of Whiterun looking back at the Spring District.  You probably recognize the bandit camp in the cliff face which should help provide some reference as to where things are.

  Hide contents

You can also see some of the new fortifications around Dragonsreach, I add more around that area than anywhere else and they're in better shape (not great shape, but better) because it is afterall the Jarl's residence.

 

This is a closer look at part of those new Dragonsreach fortifications.

  Hide contents

You may note the arched theme in the walls, from the arches on the tower to the battlements to the structure of Dragonsreach itself above.  I was trying to maintain continuity in the style of architecture so that everything I added blended and remained in the "Whiterun style" that makes this city unique from other Hold capitals in Skyrim.

 

Moving around to the other side of Dragonsreach some more fortifications.

  Hide contents

You may notice that part of the new fortifications looks like some sort of building.  It is, its the storehouse for Dragonsreach.  I imagined that once Dragonsreach was like a castle keep, and like all such keeps it would have had storehouses for food and supplies in the event of a siege.  The storehouse, like everything else, isn't what it once was but it was an addition that I felt helped make the area around Dragonsreach, especially when you're on the inside of the city, feel more "solid".

 

So going inside Whiterun I've added things here an there.  The guard barracks behind the Bannered Mare is built into the base of a tower.  I dressed up the top of it.

  Hide contents

 

Here's another look from behind the Bannered Mare

  Hide contents

You can see some more of my "battlements" along the wall and above in the area around Jorvaskr.  The top of the tower is in bad shape, which since the top part is inaccessible that makes sense as to why its inaccessible.

 

One more look this time standing right in front of Jorvaskr

  Hide contents

Whiterun tower is falling down... falling down... falling down... my fair lady!

 

Turning around we're looking up at the Skyforge and Dragonsreach above.

  Hide contents

On the right you see the end of the new storehouse, its a big structure.

 

Standing inside the Spring District again looking up at Dragonsreach above we can see still more new fortifications.

  Hide contents

You may note the new watch tower in the wall around Dragonsreach, not only is it possible to look down into the Spring District from there, you can fire down or hop the wall and jump down.

 

And then near the Gildergreen we're looking up the stairs to Dragonsreach.  I was limited in what I could do here because a lot of that stuff (the front wall, the two big wooden columns and the stone walk) are all one mesh so I had to work around some things.  So I decided to make it look like maybe once there was a more solid stone fortification, maybe once there was even a stone gate house, but that's all crumbling or crumbled away over the centuries and now we have this.

  Hide contents

I added some arches over the waterfalls coming out of the wall to help give it thickness and make it look more interesting and perhaps stronger, the stairs up are flanked by two ruined towers that once would have protected the approach.  My goal was to make it feel like you were entering what was once a very fortified keep or citadel, but its old and falling apart and hasn't been maintained.  These walls have weathered both centuries of time and many attacks and succession wars (Skyrim has a pretty violent history and Whiterun is no exception).

 

Reaching the top of the stairs and looking left you see this.

  Hide contents

I'm still developing the area around Dragonsreach so this is all unfinished but you're seeing a tower that will be used for... something. ?  That raised area with the trellis over it has a particular purpose you'll find out more about later and there's a small wooded copse behind it.

 

Turning to the right we see this.

  Hide contents

The covered area is visited by NPCs and later on there are plans to have thanes and merchants meeting here, perhaps conducting business with each other or arranging supplies to be brought to the storehouse.  The area in front and behind the shelter will be a garden area I'm still very much working on.  This is the only area in Whiterun I actually plan to have a manicured garden... its the Jarl's garden of course.

 

---------------------

 

So there you have it, another peek at what's happening and how things are shaping up.   Tomorrow is Monday and I have some time blocked out this week to work on getting Three Shields House finished and those NPCs in.  I still have a lot of work to do to get Breezehome finished and the new upgrade process working and there's a lot to do outside Whiterun still.  I still can't give an ETA on an initial release but I will say I'm aiming to have that out sometime this year.

 

Feel free to leave feedback, its still a work in progress.

 

If I can get a new headset and mic I may look into doing some video tours.

 

That really looks good.  I love the new battlements and structures.  I'll certainly add the finished mod into a playthrough

 

Given where you are, you're bound to get some interior mod conflicts, and people can obviously choose what they want. 

 

Without wishing to sound at all carping - goodness only know that I couldn't do any of that to save my life! - can I raise a quick few, hopefully helpful, points? .

 

- I presume that, as it's so fundamental to the main game, the Civil War will still play OK?  I feel embarrassed to ask, really, as I really doubt that you've overlooked that LOL 

 

- were you planning to do anything down near the main access road T junction?  Popular LL and other sourced mods, egs Laura's Shop, and ETaC's Marketplace etc, have that area sort of pretty well sewn up  :-)

 

- they look and sound like a labour of love, but do you plan to make the new stables and pastures able to be switched on and off?  If I have my bearings right, there's a few mods seem make use of that bit of real estate, not least of which is New Heimdall, probably still one of the best Whiterun Player homes out there ....  If you haven't seen it/got the mod, it's available here    

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/29786?

 

Hope those thoughts help.  Thanks for all your hard work, and really look forward to seeing the finished article

 

 

 

 

[EinarrTheRed]

1 hour ago, donkeywho said:

I presume that, as it's so fundamental to the main game, the Civil War will still play OK?  I feel embarrassed to ask, really, as I really doubt that you've overlooked that LOL

Correct, and we're going to lengths to ensure the CW will still play out correctly*.  That means NPCs still go hide in their homes during the battle, including all the new NPCs I'm adding.  New barricades in front of the new buildings and businesses.  So things don't happen, Severio Pelagia, Nimriel and Gloth no longer die as a result of the battle and Severios old house (which is now a a new shop, Jucanis Imports) no longer gets destroyed.  We'd discussed some possible "enhancements" to the battle but I axed those because I felt they were ideas that better belong in a mod that overhauls the CW.

 

* Note:  The caveat being that it doesn't do anything to break it, but the CW is plenty prone to breaking all on its own and its beyond the scope of this mod to try an fix that.

 

Not only that, but if you use a mod like Arthmoors Run For Your Lives (which I recommend btw) it works very well with my mod.  All the NPCs I've added, and including those that have been relocated to new homes (like Nazeem and Ahlam or Lilith) will correctly flee to their new homes during dragon attacks and vampire attacks.

 

RDO and Guard Dialog Overhaul also both work fine, I use them and I recommend using them with this mod.

 

 

1 hour ago, donkeywho said:

were you planning to do anything down near the main access road T junction?  Popular LL and other sourced mods, egs Laura's Shop, and ETaC's Marketplace etc, have that area sort of pretty well sewn up  ?

ETaC will conflict... a LOT.  Originally I was going to try an work with Jenna but she went silent and so I had to make decisions about what to do.  So I've done my own stuff.  On the other hand what I'm doing outside adds more than ETaC did, so you shouldn't need or want it.   Mods like that, if I realized I was going to have to replace them, then I set a high bar to make sure what I replaced it with would be something players would like even better... so you're trading up, not down.

 

Laura's Shop is a minor conflict.  I thought she was going to put it somewhere else but where she did put it straddles a cell border and I have a farm fence right along that border.  One of my Dev team has tried it, its a minor conflict, but you can still use the shop.  I'd already built up in that space so its a bit late for me to change it.  It does not conflict with T.ara's brothel which is completely in the next cell.  It was because of T.ara's brothel mod and JadeShadow's Elysium Estate that I stopped where I did and left several cells there untouched.

 

But yeah, that whole area around the T junction in front of the stables... lot going on out there.   Its still early which is why I haven't shown it much but there's a woodwright's shop out there called the Maul and Glut, a stonemasons shop (not named yet), a small farm which will have quests associated with it, a chandler's shop, and a potter's shop.  Further down toward the meadery there's a new inn, The Rising Falls and a small Vigilant's mission run by a brother and sister team.   Among other things.   This mod makes the area in front of Whiterun a busy place full of craft shops and other points of interest.

 

1 hour ago, donkeywho said:

they look and sound like a labour of love, but do you plan to make the new stables and pastures able to be switched on and off?  If I have my bearings right, there's a few mods seem make use of that bit of real estate, not least of which is New Heimdall, probably still one of the best Whiterun Player homes out there ....  If you haven't seen it/got the mod, it's available here

Nope, there's no way to just "switch" it off because there are landscape and navmesh edits.   There's no way to swap that with an MCM option, so its not as simple as disabling a building. 

 

That said, looking the screen shots from the mod you linked, it looks like that mod is located further West than my pasture so it may not conflict at all (I haven't downloaded it yet but I will when I get a chance).   Pictures being worth a thousand words...

 

This outcropping (circled) is part of vanilla Skyrim...

Spoiler

 

Is the same outcropping at the corner of my fence circled here...

Spoiler

 

I did not do anything beyond the fence wall I added so anything they changed out there isn't affected by my mod.  If they stayed within the next cell over, then it shouldn't conflict (meaning the navmesh should sync up as well since I left the cell edge alone in that area for exactly that reason) and if you want to walk into Whiterun from what looks like their stable... there's a gate (just to the right of the circled outcropping) conveniently located so you can just walk across that pasture.

 

1 hour ago, donkeywho said:

Hope those thoughts help. 

Sure, I'd not seen that player home.  I'm trying to minimize the footprint of this mod where I can and work around various conflicts if possible.  Sometimes I just can't because in some areas I gotta have the space, can't be helped.  But my Dev team has helped me find conflicts with a variety of mods, and where I can I've tried to fix stuff.  We had one with the Quarry site, when I started building it thought area was completely clear... and then discovered Beastess Lairs puts a lair.  But the lair turned out to be just above the quarry and I was able to build my quarry in such a way that if you have that mod, they just blend together and both still work.  Its nice when stuff like that happens, but isn't always possible.

 

Quote

 

Thanks for all your hard work, and really look forward to seeing the finished article

Thank you!  I'm looking forward to seeing it finished too! ??

 

Soon as I get a chance I'll test the player home you linked and post the results.  If there is any conflict, I'll see if I can fix it, but can't make promises.  May not be any though.

[EinarrTheRed]

Okay, did a quick load in and test... so much for optimism.  It does conflict.

 

At first it didn't look too bad.

Spoiler

 

But then I got closer

Spoiler

 

So my fence runs right through their stable and they added some hills that spill over into the adjacent cell where most of the pasture is.   I don't think there's any way I can work around this, they take up so much space (3 cells and about a half dozen more with dirty edits) that the only think I could do is move the pasture entirely and I've no where else nearby to move it too. ?   If it had been one cell over to the West, would have been zero conflicts.   Granted you can still use the house and I guess you could disable the sections of my wall that run through the stable and its not too bad... but... yeah, not much I can do.  If it was just moving the fence over a bit I'd consider it.  But they've messed with a LOT of navmesh in multiple cells and that's the real problem, that's going to conflict no matter what.

 

I'm trying not to give away some of the additional stuff we're working on, but that pasture isn't just decorative for the stables... its used for some other stuff we've already got done and built in and put a lot of work in.   So I have to have some sort of pasture at this point, and if it was just a matter of making mine smaller I could maybe work with that.   But where they located that house makes it more complicated than that.

 

Now if you can talk the mod author into moving the house over one cell, like said, that'd be zero conflicts and it would actually look quite nice next to what I have.

 

Sorry for the bad news.

 

 

[DonQuiWho]

8 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Okay, did a quick load in and test... so much for optimism.  It does conflict.

 

At first it didn't look too bad.

  Hide contents

 

But then I got closer

  Hide contents

 

So my fence runs right through their stable and they added some hills that spill over into the adjacent cell where most of the pasture is.   I don't think there's any way I can work around this, they take up so much space (3 cells and about a half dozen more with dirty edits) that the only think I could do is move the pasture entirely and I've no where else nearby to move it too. ?   If it had been one cell over to the West, would have been zero conflicts.   Granted you can still use the house and I guess you could disable the sections of my wall that run through the stable and its not too bad... but... yeah, not much I can do.  If it was just moving the fence over a bit I'd consider it.  But they've messed with a LOT of navmesh in multiple cells and that's the real problem, that's going to conflict no matter what.

 

I'm trying not to give away some of the additional stuff we're working on, but that pasture isn't just decorative for the stables... its used for some other stuff we've already got done and built in and put a lot of work in.   So I have to have some sort of pasture at this point, and if it was just a matter of making mine smaller I could maybe work with that.   But where they located that house makes it more complicated than that.

 

Now if you can talk the mod author into moving the house over one cell, like said, that'd be zero conflicts and it would actually look quite nice next to what I have.

 

Sorry for the bad news.

 

 

 

Thanks for the VERY full responses!  Most of what you wrote on conflicts is pretty much what I might have expected.  No big deal though, as an increase in the number of diff mods that can suit different game setups can only but be good!

 

'Your' Civil War sounds good, and probably even better than the original

 

As for Heimdall?  No problem   Some we win, some we lose, and some we bodge into submission with judicious use of the console delete function  ?

 

Thanks again 

 

 

[EinarrTheRed]

12 hours ago, donkeywho said:

 

Thanks for the VERY full responses!  Most of what you wrote on conflicts is pretty much what I might have expected.  No big deal though, as an increase in the number of diff mods that can suit different game setups can only but be good!

 

You're welcome, didn't take me long.

 

12 hours ago, donkeywho said:

 

'Your' Civil War sounds good, and probably even better than the original

Oh if I hadn't axed some ideas, we could have really blown out the whole Battle for Whiterun.  But like I said, that's really beyond the scope of this mod and would be better in a full overhaul of the CW (which I think badly needs to be done and I'd be happy to share some ideas if someone was doing that).  On the other hand one of the things I am planning is to later include some content to repair damage after the battle. 

 

12 hours ago, donkeywho said:

 

As for Heimdall?  No problem   Some we win, some we lose, and some we bodge into submission with judicious use of the console delete function  ?

 

Thanks again

You know, it probably would not take that much to move that house over one cell, fix the navmesh and there you go.

 

On the other hand you can still use Elysium Estate.  I'm also working to make Breezehome into something very special.

[iggypop1]

@EinarrTheRed

Hi this is some project....keeping an eye on this . Some questions though : since your moving around things inside whiterun i was wondering if it was possible to turn the stairs down to the pool/water area so they connects to the stairs  on the way up to Dragonreach Im using the bathing mod and when i need to bath I either have to jump down there or go the way around (bad vanilla design no access)

 

So there will be a clean up function after the CW? and can we get the Gildergreen to bloom again?

 

thanx

 

 

[EinarrTheRed]

10 hours ago, iggypop1 said:

since your moving around things inside whiterun i was wondering if it was possible to turn the stairs down to the pool/water area so they connects to the stairs  on the way up to Dragonreach

Unfortunately, no.  I know the stairs you're talking about, and they exit the lower pool out towards either end and basically go nowhere.  Unfortunately those steps, the wall and the pool are all one mesh so I can't easily flip them.  To do what you want I'd have to cut the mesh apart in Blender and rebuild them.  I'm working on being able to do things like that because there are other meshes I want to edit and new stuff I want to add, but due to RL work I haven't had time yet to finish learning to do that.  Turning those steps wasn't on my to do list, but its not a bad idea if it becomes possible.  The current design doesn't really make any sense.

 

10 hours ago, iggypop1 said:

So there will be a clean up function after the CW? and can we get the Gildergreen to bloom again?

Yes, though it won't be a simple switch.  Instead there will be some things that just happen over time and some things that happens as a result of minor side quests.  This is still being worked out.   One aspect that will have bearing on it are the various craftsmen that have been added outside Whiterun.  Some options or events will depend on what you've done to help them.  For example, there's a stone mason outside and he lacks a good supply of stone, one planned side quest will be to re-open an abandoned quarry that has been added to the map nearby and get it working again.

 

As for the Gildergreen, I'm assuming you mean something other than the quest to restore the Gildergreen or replace it with a sapling?  I haven't yet done anything else with the Gildergreen (though we do have some additional content ties to that quest that is in).  What did you have in mind?  I'm always open to suggestions.

 

[iggypop1]

1 hour ago, EinarrTheRed said:

As for the Gildergreen, I'm assuming you mean something other than the quest to restore the Gildergreen or replace it with a sapling?  I haven't yet done anything else with the Gildergreen (though we do have some additional content ties to that quest that is in).  What did you have in mind?  I'm always open to suggestions.

maybe its just my game but i litterally have a mod that ensures the Gildergreen  to blossom after the Gildergrenquest, but maybe its obsolete  and the USLEP is fixing it.  Ive been toying with this game for so many years and i seem to remember the disapointment that nothing happent after the quest.....dunno so that what im thinking?

[karlpaws]

2 hours ago, iggypop1 said:

maybe its just my game but i litterally have a mod that ensures the Gildergreen  to blossom after the Gildergrenquest, but maybe its obsolete  and the USLEP is fixing it.  Ive been toying with this game for so many years and i seem to remember the disapointment that nothing happent after the quest.....dunno so that what im thinking?

 

I know a mod or two I've used take a couple in game days for anything to happen, although I've lost track of which one I am using right now so I cannot suggest any.  If I bring the sapling back, after 2-3 days, the old dead tree is removed entirely and a smaller version is put in its place, leafed out. 

[iggypop1]

8 hours ago, karlpaws said:

 

I know a mod or two I've used take a couple in game days for anything to happen, although I've lost track of which one I am using right now so I cannot suggest any.  If I bring the sapling back, after 2-3 days, the old dead tree is removed entirely and a smaller version is put in its place, leafed out. 

Im not shure if a mod nowadays (other than USLEEP) is necessary for the Gildergreen to blossom after quest.....but im not shure.....anybody knows?anybody?

[EinarrTheRed]

@t.ara has helped with some custom furniture and custom markers, helping me understand how some of that works so I could make some things.  I like her stuff too.

 

Coincidentally, I just sent a new build out to my beta-testers and once they give that a green light I'll be posting another progress update here.

[EinarrTheRed]

So update time:

 

I've been continuing to work on the mod as time and RL allowed and its progressing nicely and really taking shape.  So much so I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  The current version of the mod features some significant improvements and some things I hadn't expected to do but got talked into.

 

One of those things was rebuilding the interior of the Bannered Mare.  Now to be clear, I'd not really intended to do much here.  I'd pushed out the back to make room for a couple more beds so Sinmir and Uthgerd had a place to sleep and that was about it.  My development team wasn't having it, they wanted something much better.  To give full credit where its due it was @Blackbird Wanderer @Psalam @karlpaws @worik and @Corsayr who talked me into it.

 

So, first thing I wanted to keep the same layout and floor plan.  I also kept almost all the original furniture (some mods target specific furniture for NPCs or to place items in and I wanted to keep that compatible).  But I made it slightly larger, so the main room is both wider and longer but with the same proportions.  The effect is when you first walk in you might almost think nothing has changed... and then you notice things.  There are some new banners inside the Bannered Mare (I mean, its in the name LOL) and they feature a horse motif to go with the name of the inn.  Hulda now has her own bedroom and actually sleeps at night.  There are three new additional NPCs, including Eerika, who takes over the desk at night while Hulda sleeps so there's always someone to rent a room from.  One of the new NPCs only appears if Saadia dies (or disappears, or gets enslaved by PAHE) and takes her place, that way the inn always has a full staff (and they need it now!).  The player guest room was moved a bit so now you have a private room and nobody wandering through to get to a balcony.  But beyond that there are now FIVE new guest rooms.  There are also new guests that use those rooms, and they change over time.   A pool of guest NPCs was created and Blackbird created scripting so that periodically new guests arrive, check in, put their stuff in their room and then hang out in the inn or wander around town during the day, then after a few days (one day to a week) they check out again.  Sometimes there are more guests than others, its all randomly generated.  This really helps bring the Bannered Mare to life and make it feel like the busy, bustling inn it should be and its also now one of the absolute nicest inns anywhere in Skyrim.  With the slightly increased interior floor space, its also easier to get around in the inn even with all the new NPCS, IW, and Populated Towns and Cities running (and its been tested with all those mods running).

 

Before anyone asks...

• Is it compatible with follower mods that add new followers to the Bannered Mare.  Yes, 100% across the board if the mod drops a new follower into the inn, they'll be there and things should be fine.
• Is it compatible with Immersive Wenches?  Yup, not only that but Blackbird was so very clever that some of the new behaviors for the Mare staff recognizes Wenches working there and they get the new behaviors as well, but it doesn't interfere with them being wenches.
• Is it compatible with mods that have quest stuff there?  Probably, should be in most cases.  We've tested a number of such mods and so far they all worked.
• The one thing its almost certainly NOT compatible with is anything that overhauls the interior of the Bannered Mare... but then I already did that so why have the extra mod in your load order?

 

The Breezehome overhaul is also nearing completion.  I've just got the bath area to finish, the dining table and its options, and then set all the default start states (before upgrades) and I'll be ready to start building the new upgrade system.

 

I have one more building in the Spring District to detail the interior and add NPCs and that district will be ready to go for now.  Its getting a chef and family, the chef works in Dragonsreach for the Jarl.  I noted that all the other major hold capitals have a cook or chef, but Whiterun does not... well.... fixed it!

 

The Wind District has two new thanes, Thane Leidela and Thane Adalmor who live in Three Shields House and Cloudview respectively.  You'll see them at the Jarl's court sometimes and also patrolling around town and doing other things.

 

That leaves a couple new building interiors to do around Dragonsreach, and Dragonsreach will also be done.

 

I've even already started roughing in the interiors of the new shops and farms outside Whiterun getting ready to detail them and add the NPCs to those.  This includes the Rising Falls Inn located next to the Honningbrew Meadery, giving Whiterun its second Inn.  Its a large inn, but run down and has turned into a seedier establishment.  I'm having fun with the interior layout and working to make it distinctive from other inns in its own way.

 

So, the whole mod is really coming together, so much so I think I can finally give a tentative ETA on a first release.  We'll call this an alpha or phase I release, and I'm hoping to have that ready in the next 4-5 months.  This first release won't have the side quest content, but it will have all the city and outside locations, lot of new NPCs, their behaviors and so forth.  Breezehome will be fully functional with all its new upgrades and features.  Some of the undercity tunnel locations will be there, but that area will not be complete.  Lastly, while I have worked to make the mod 100% compatible with any appearance replacer mod you might want to use, I've also been practicing doing face sculpts in Racemenu and by the time the mod is released, most if not all the NPCs will be getting a nice facelift (another one LOL) so you have a really nice looking bunch of people to go with a nice looking new city.

 

I'm also learning to use my video software and hope to do a video tour of the city once I get more done to give everyone a good preview before downloading so you know what you're getting.

 

Lastly, we are planning for the first release to be for both LE and SE.  Blackbird and Corsayr have been testing conversions and so far they've gone very well.  Before the release I will probably make the mod into an .esm file to make it easier for other modders to use as a base to build off of, whether that be adding NPCs, quest locations, or what ever.

 

Before anyone asks, how long do I think it will take to fully complete the mod.  I'm afraid to say, but after the initial phase I release my guess is at least another year to build all the quest content... there's going to be a lot of additional content.

 

Personally, I'm excited.

 

That's the news!

 

[travelmedic]

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Personally, I'm excited.

 

 

As  are we...  Really looking forward to this!

[EinarrTheRed]

Plugging away on this.  The Spring District has a new resident, Chef Cristus, his wife, mother in law, an adult daughter and his boy (male child).  The Chef works in Dragonsreach cooking for the Jarl.  He has two assistants who live in the Common House, one helps Cristus during the day and the other takes a night shift in case the Jarl wants a late night snack.  So now Dragonsreach now has a fully staffed kitchen!

 

That leaves two buildings empty in the Spring District.  One is the Abandoned House which is rumored to be haunted, that one will probably not be detailed and unlocked until Phase 2, because there is planned quest content associated with it.  The other is the home of a special NPC who will also have some quest content associated with them, a lot of dialog, and an important role to play in this mod, so that one may not get added til Phase 2 either.

 

The Ebon Blade / Whispering Door is getting a new home with some new surprises and some scripting to move everything required for the quest to ensure it works on both new and existing save games.  This will allow me to finish connecting Dragonsreach to the new tunnel system and the Jarl will now have an escape tunnel which Bethesda had planned to do but never implemented (I'm doing it a bit differently than they planned).

 

As time allows I'm working on the new locations outside Dragonsreach, including the Old Tower and an aging priest there who worships Kyne.  There's also the Jarl's Storehouse which is used to store food and supplies in case of a siege.  There will be some new stuff inside Dragonsreach as well, the Jarl will finally be getting a treasury (which will be mostly empty cause things are going well), and some royal crypts.  These will be used as part of quests and some radiant quests later on in Phase 2.

 

At this point WhiterunWorldspace is just about finished and I'll soon be able to fully focus on the area outside Whiterun.

 

Outside I've re-textured all the building parts I'm using for The Rising Falls so it mostly uses textures that already get loaded if you are coming from Riverwood to Whiterun.  As many know, that area is a bit crash prone already and I am trying to limit texture load so I don't contribute to the problem any more than I have to.

 

As of now, not counting guards, guests and other unnamed NPCs, the mod will be adding about 100 new unique named NPCs to Whiterun and the surrounding area, and that number is still rising.  By comparison, vanilla Whiterun has 73 named unique NPCs, so this more than doubles that.  All the new NPCs have behavior packages, beds to sleep in, a place to live and things to do.

 

That's the news!

 

 

[karlpaws]

5 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

(which will be mostly empty cause things are going well),

 

I think you mean NOT going well, unless you're referring to your own efforts...

 

5 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

That's the news!

 

Not that I hope either of these take that long, but I hope to have my load order problem fixed by the time you're done.

 

?

[MonVert]

Will this be Open Cities compatible on release? ?

[EinarrTheRed]

4 minutes ago, MonVert said:

Will this be Open Cities compatible on release? ?

Sorry no.  That would be a LOT of additional work.

[MonVert]

6 minutes ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Sorry no.  That would be a LOT of additional work.

 

Guess that means I'm going to have to do it myself when it happens, then. X_X

[EinarrTheRed]

On 6/24/2021 at 4:06 PM, MonVert said:

 

Guess that means I'm going to have to do it myself when it happens, then. X_X

You're welcome to give it a try, I'll even answer questions and give advice on how things work where needed.  This mod has a growing amount of moving parts to keep up with.

 

 

Speaking of which, figured I'd post another status update.

 

I wish I had more screen shots but I'm trying to get a few things finished and tested and then I'll have some really nice stuff to show off.

 

The mod is progressing and so far as inside the city I've just got some stuff around Dragonsreach, finish up the interior of Breezehome and a few finishing touches to do and that part will be done.  I've started on more of the area in front of Whiterun, moved a bit to avoid some conflicts with other mods and been working on the navmeshing as well as some clean up.   I've managed to reduce the mod's overall exterior footprint by 3 world cells, I'm happy about that as it leaves more space for other mods.

 

I do plan to publish a "mod footprint cell map" that shows what world cells I edit as a resource both for other modders and for players trying to figure out what this mod may conflict with in their load order.

 

This weekend I've been working on something I've been dreading... the Battle of Whiterun.  The CW stuff is not my favorite thing to work on and it turns out there were some serious problems (I'd managed to break the Battle of Whiterun so that Ulfric would never give you your orders to go to the camp).  I'm happy to say that as of now I've been testing the Battle and have about 95% of it working properly.  I've a few guards to tweak, a couple of missing Stormcloaks to add in, and I've got to fix the Stormcloak camp so the tents disable after the battle and everything should be good.  I don't know how many still play through the CW content, but my goal is to make sure everything is working properly.

 

I'm debating making the mod a master file so that other modders can more easily use it for their own quest mods and so forth.  With all the new NPCs and locations, there's a lot of potential for things like that.  But, making it a master file also has its drawbacks, so I'm undecided as yet.

 

I'm still intending to have an Alpha release by the end of the year.  Its August and I've still got a lot to do, but its also still doable if there are no major setbacks.

[MonVert]

1 hour ago, EinarrTheRed said:

But, making it a master file also has its drawbacks,

 

Since when did an ESM have drawbacks over an ESP? O_o Outside of load order; I don't recall anyone ever saying making things an ESM is a bad idea. Especially when it seems to contain as many references as your mod will appear to have.

Edited August 1, 2021 by MonVert

[EinarrTheRed]

Load order is the main one.  Means you have to have it higher in your load order and I've already identified some mod conflicts that are easily solved by moving mine down below them in the load order.  Other than that, making an ESM would make the mod more accessible for other modders wanting to base quests or things using the new NPCs or location.  I've been pretty cautious in my decisions on most things, trying to balance things out and make this the best mod I can.

 

[karlpaws]

Depending on the number of mods and conflicts, perhaps you could release a template-patch of an ESP that only depends on your ESM file, and contains duplicates of those things that need to revert what other mods changed, essentially a patch for several mods to be placed after those.  It would increase the esp count and would not be needed if someone could just load your mod later, but would avoid needing to release two different versions of your mod.

[EinarrTheRed]

STATUS UPDATE:  Still working on the mod, chasing down a few bugs with the rebuilt Bannered Mare.  Most of the interior of the city is done and I'm working on the NPCs still.  I've been practicing in Racemenu and am starting to get some decent results for the NPCs.

 

I've done quite a bit of work on Lydia, both her appearance and her perks.  She's now a competent warrior, tank and can double as an archer or two handed berserker if need be.  In the process I discovered that perks can't be built into the alias system, so while she is mostly compatible with an appearance replacer, you won't get the extra perks.  So if whoever made her appearance mod that you use didn't give her better perks, she won't be as good in a fight (you can copy them over in TES edit though, that will work).  I'm working to make my version an nice looking as I can.  Here's a sneak peak, this may not be the final version of her, I'm still tweaking things.

Spoiler

 

Diadem jewelry and Red Eagle's sword not included, but the rest of her gear is her default gear.  An yeah I happened to grab the screen caps outside Markarth instead of Whiterun... meh... I was traveling that day. ?  I'm not using any fancy ENB or facelights or anything, so that's how she looks with Bijin's skin textures and pretty basic lighting.

 

I'll have some previews of the new Bannered Mare soon as we finish chasing down a couple pesky bugs and I finish the new NPCs for that.  Once we have that bit working I'm looking forward to revealing what we've cooked up to make the Bannered Mare extra special!  A lot of attention is being focused on the new systems because the core system will be reused elsewhere for the Rising Falls Inn (a new inn outside Whiterun next to the meadery) and for some other features.

 

Meanwhile, Dragonsreach has some new NPCs.  I'd thought it odd that at the other major hold capitals (Solitude, Windhelm, Markarth) they all had a chef working there, but Dragonsreach has the biggest kitchen and hall and no chef.  Well, now it has a Chef.   Chef Cristus is a Nord who lives in his own home in the Spring District with his family, his wife Temgrid, his grown daughter Imwyn and his son Kharc, along with his mother-in-law Ullte.  The Chef has two assistants who live in the Common House, one works with the chef during the day and the other takes over for the night shift... so, there you go Dagny, now you can get a fresh baked sweetroll anytime right there in Dragonsreach. ?

 

I've also been testing and working on the Civil War content for Whiterun, namely the Battle of Whiterun.  I'm happy to say as of right now everything is working properly and pretty smoothly.  All NPCs from my mod will be in their homes during the battle, and I built in some extra precautions to help ensure that.  There are new barricades that appear and other features to make the battle a challenge.  After the battle, if you sided with the Stormcloaks, I've worked on the guards and fixed some goofs by Bethesda that even USLEEP doesn't fix (and fixed one goof USLEEP makes), so now all the Stormcloak guards go where they should, patrolling and standing guard as intended.  Same for the Imperials.

 

I moved one of the new farms I added to help avoid some conflicts with other mods, I've also managed to reduce the footprint of the mod by 3 exterior cells without really giving up anything.  I'm still working on a cell usage map I'll release later to help people better understand what I change and determine whether other mods they use might conflict or not.  We're even working on a few areas of decor that will normally be enabled, but if certain conflicting mods are detected, they will auto disable.

 

There's also a friendly mudcrab.  Nothing special... he's just the only mudcrab in Skyrim that isn't a blood thirsty psycopath.  He's a little shy though.

 

More to come!