Trying to make open bottom dresses

[JoshQ]

 

The seam fixer just fixes normals and gaps, right? In that case you might replicate it with the data transfer using the same method (separating the neck / leg vertices on a vertex group and using any garment made by EA as reference, for gap fixing you only need snapping).

 

Does Blender just refuses to load or it shows a message?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, JoshQ said:

 

The seam fixer just fixes normals and gaps, right? In that case you might replicate it with the data transfer using the same method (separating the neck / leg vertices on a vertex group and using any garment made by EA as reference, for gap fixing you only need snapping).

 

Does Blender just refuses to load or it shows a message?

Hey Josh! I think I tried what you suggest. Or maybe not? I have tried so many things, including taking the mesh, removing ALL double vertices to make it perfectly blended and using that as the base mesh to copy normals from, since all vertices will match position exactly. I even excluded the neck and ankle seams from this.

 

2 things are happening... The TS3 geom tools have a seam fixer to use before exporting. It smooths the seam on the right side of the mesh and insides of the legs, and actually makes the waist seam appear smooth, but that still shows the seam on TSRW and in game, but has always worked on 2.67, which does NOT have data transfer. (

 

My meshes are 3 parts. Legs don't matter with the waist seam. But, I have taken the skirt part of the mesh, aligned it with the af bra top part and vertices by vertices, zoomed all the way in and matched the vertices on the x and y, welded the normals to ensure they are totally aligned, edge split them again and moved the UV back to the open areas. I honestly thought that would do the trick. I will say that doing this, the multiplier is now perfectly aligned on x and y, so I know that isn't the problem.

 

2.75 has data transfer, but for some reason, the geom seam fixer tool for export doesn't work, even if I do not use data transfer. So, I had been using 2.75 to do the transfer for waist seams and bone weights, exporting and importing to 2.67 to fix the other seams, then exporting again.

 

It seems that one or the other gets lost. Worst part is that the seam fixer tool in Meshing tool kit doesn't fix the neck seam on a mesh I used data transfer on. If I don't use data transfer, that tool works fine, the neck and ankles are perfect, but I see the waist seam in game testing.

 

Here's where I hate TSRW... Everything actually looks perfect in TSRW after data transfer and tool kit seam fixer. But, when I test in game, there's the neck seam. More messed up is that the ankles actually still look good in game.

 

I really can't hide the waist seam on the mesh I'm doing now the way I did on the Sakura dress with a corset, so I have to figure this out.

 

 

What happens with various versions of Blender differs with version and laptop. I had a screen flash. I found the answer. Run the program as Windows 8 at use the integrated graphics card. Flash solved. There are a couple geom tool kits. I have mix matched them, but still, the best case is the seam fix won't work on export. Sometimes, it won't load a mesh and an error message flashes. Sometimes, Blender just shuts down and turns itself off.

[Guest]

Okay... I made time to redo the mesh and package, and take screenshots of what I tried this time. Basically, its my mesh. I removed all double vertices, except the neck and ankles. Imported a new mesh and transferred the normals from the mesh with no seams to the mesh I want to use. I replaced the mesh from an older package with the new one, opened it in TSRW and exported the wso. I did the bone assignment, seam fix and morphs. I made an entirely new TSRW work package. Imported my mesh and textures to make a totally new package file. As always, everything looked great in TSRW. This time, the waist seam showed in both CAS and in game, but the neck was okay. As Non Sequitur said you told him, "Practice and Patience"... a little vodka helps too!

 

I didn't go back to show you how I used "hide selected" to hide the legs in the UV map... rotated and moved the skirt UV back to the upper torso and perfectly aligned the vertices on the x and y. But, you can see the one pic how seamlessly they appear with all the texture folds flowing and with no visible offset or gaps.

 

It seems that everyone goes to MS to finish their work, including you and Non Sequitur. Maybe this simply can't be done on Blender alone?

 

I meant to ask you before... Where did you see clipping in the Sakura minidress? I tested and tested in game and thought it was good. The only way to correct things like that is when you are kind enough to tell me where my mistake was. ))) As always, your critique is taken as constructive help for me to get better at this! Thank you!

what I try.zip

[Nonsequitur]

Breathe...

[JoshQ]

 

Well MS has been the “default” tool since Sims 2 and the same happened with S3 it has support (sorta), plug-ins and tutorials, even has support for S4 thanks to Cmar’s S4CASTools. So even if I use Blender for my modeling needs I still go back to Milkshape for making the .wso and/or fix some issues.

 

But that doesn’t mean you can’t make a 100% working mesh exclusively on Blender, or at least that possible in 2.80… Hang in there I think I got it.

 

You could try using Meshtoolkit to:

• Convert a .wso into .obj
• Make your modifications on blender
• Export it as .obj
• Converting it back to .wso on meshtoolkit

 The first part (converting .wso as .obj) gives me a mesh without seams and therefore you don’t have to fix anything.

 

Just two notes:

 

1)  If you want to see the morphs groups in blender, in the import window you have to deselect ‘split by: object’ and select ‘split by: group’

2)  For exporting to .obj (once you made your edits) these are setting I use:

 

 

Finally, here are the “microscopic gaps” I mentioned earlier:

 

As I said you reeeeeeeaaally have to zoom to be able to notice.

[Guest]

On 9/26/2019 at 1:37 AM, JoshQ said:

 

Well MS has been the “default” tool since Sims 2 and the same happened with S3 it has support (sorta), plug-ins and tutorials, even has support for S4 thanks to Cmar’s S4CASTools. So even if I use Blender for my modeling needs I still go back to Milkshape for making the .wso and/or fix some issues.

 

 

 

Finally, here are the “microscopic gaps” I mentioned earlier:

 

 

As I said you reeeeeeeaaally have to zoom to be able to notice.

Yes, I think it was Wes Howe who made some tools for MS a long time ago. One problem I have is the Meshing tool kit gives me an error when I try to use the seam fixer on a tf mesh or wso. That's the main reason I've been only working on af clothes. The way I make wsos is to take a base package of something I quick made with TSRW and replace the meshes with mine and open THAT in TSRW to extract my mesh's wso and do bones, seam fix and morphs in tool kit, then put it back into the TSRW project. It goes quickly, but as you know, doesn't seem to get everything perfect.

 

You mean the dashed line? Its the inner of the main skirt brushing against the filler to the lace part, and I didn't see it when my vampires slept, floating above the alter, so I kept going. On the edges, because solidify just hasn't worked for me, that edge and the very bottom edge have a .0001 gap x, y, and up .0001 on the z so I don't get those shadows. Like you said, you really have to be examining the mesh as I ask you to do to see those things. So, really, I'm pretty happy. Because if that was the worst you found, and I knew about them, yup... I'm happy. Now to those waist seams! I will get them!!!!!!

 

As you use 2.80 and all your examples use 2.80, well... reality is that for whatever reasons, getting Blender on the travel laptop has been fruitless for the most part. Anyway, since you use 2.80 and it has so many features, I actually got it loaded on the traveler and have been trying to work with it. And the main reason, I got an error message on my work laptop saying there's a problem with the disk! Spent some time loading everything on thumb drives.

 

Its tedious since its such a big difference even from 2.79, which was similar in set up to 2.67 which I had become familiar with. I'm very slowly finding where tools are and how to use them. First I made a very basic mesh by combining the nude top with nipples and a bottom briefs. I actually haven't had a chance to put it in game to look at it. Still playing with 2.80, I decided to make a completely new Cocktail dress mini. New everything. New mesh parts, a new minidress mesh with a new set of textures to match it.

 

And I found out why my meshes always looked like a Picaso when I imported them to 2.80! I have the Blender geom tools made by Smug Tomato on MTS for 2.80. Apparently, it has a problem with altered meshes that aren't re ID'd, renumbered vertices and I think something else.

 

I'm not sure how it will look in game. The neck and ankle seams look good in TSRW, but there are triangular shadows at the shoulders??? They aren't even altered, so I don't know what that's about. I skipped transferring the bone weights for the skirt part, and already know it won't look quite right, but this will be to test what I've done so far and not to have too many alterations and having to figure out which one is the problem, if there is a problem. If all looks okay, I'll go back and transfer the bone weights for the skirt and make a new package to test.

[Guest]

Well, different strange things when trying 2.80. Data transfer for bone weights causes an error message on export. ))))))))

 

Is there a way to change the settings so meshes don't automatically import with seam sharps? I think that is why the simple body mesh I made had the shadows. I saw the sharps on import when opening the UV editor.

[JoshQ]

Please import this and tell me what you see:

cheerleader_lod1.obj

 

The file is the original cheerleader outfit converted to .obj using meshtoolkit. On my computer it looks like this:

 

 

 As you can see there’s no sharps and the normals look ok, this should also look the same on 2.79 and below.

[Guest]

I haven't tried using .obj yet. I got 2.80 to run on the travel laptop and have been trying... and failing to get my meshes to work on 2.80. Some things work, but not other things. For some reason, I get an error code when exporting a mesh if I do bone weight transfer, but normals transfers are okay.

 

I was able to import the .obj cheerleader. But, I have all the morphs in one. Did you explain this in your post about .obj? I really haven't looked at that one yet, as I wanted to try working with my meshes, and was going to check it out later.

[Guest]

Oh... I made a cheerleader set, but its a top and separate bottom. ) The skirt isn't great, but good enough for me. I might fix it and upload, but I'm so pre-occupied with trying anything to get the bone weights on the boobs AND all the seams to look smooth on the cocktail dress. But, I never want you to think your time tutoring me is wasted! So, I went back and checked, and...

 

When I go back to the meshes, I will try importing as .obj. Now I'm wondering if I can just convert my geom to .obj, open in 2.80, do alterations and export as .obj and convert back to geom??? Tool kit does have those conversions too. So, I guess just make the morphs invisible while editing a mesh?

 

Well, almost blew up my game! Don't be mad... I had a pair of shoes that weren't your and ended up looking awful in game. I couldn't find them! A few months ago, I combined a bunch of packages to reduce load. I went through every package. Not every, since I would never put shoes in with the 300 hair files I have, right? Well, I did. I pulled them, cleared my caches, started the game and it crashed... 4 times! Oops! I forgot I tried adding an invalid part file. THAT file was messed up and crashed my game. All good now. I need to play a little, relax, and then start fresh with trying .objs. )))

[JoshQ]

19 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

But, I have all the morphs in one. Did you explain this in your post about .obj?

Yep, you have to check this box:

 

 

One observation, when I export an .obj with groups and convert it back to .wso, TSRW won’t accept the file and it will crash.

 

To avoid this I export a second file with only the ‘group_base’ and do the .obj to .wso conversion, then use both on Meshtoolkit auto-morph tool

(the .wso with morphs is the reference). The resulting file is accepted in TSRW.

[Guest]

Hey Josh! Yes, I reposted that I managed to import after looking again at your post explaining which boxes to check. It seems Blender is crazy. I can export the entire group and convert back to wso. Thing is that I can't do weight transfers with wsos on my Blender. I've been using 2.8.

 

So, I started doing crazy stuff to fight back! Whatever reason, a mesh I do on my 2.75 will export and the side seams remain. They never smooth. If I use that mesh, it shows in TSRW. So, what I'm trying now is to do 2 meshes. I made 1 mesh in 2.75 to correct bone weights on the boobs, spine 0 and pelvis, and export that. I make a package and replace the LOD 1 geom and save. Open in TSRW and export the wso. THAT wso will only be used to assign bones. 

 

Next, I put the mesh in 2.8 and transferred the waist seam normals, and exported that. I put that in a package and opened it in TSRW, exported the wso to tool kit, assigned bones with the first wso, skipped the seam fixer and then assigned morphs using the af nightshirt wso. Oh... I'm testing it now.

 

First thing I see is that the overlay doesn't appear to have shown up???

[Guest]

OY! Learning to use 2.8. It took some time, but I think I have the basics. Trying to apply the things you've taught me. Unfortunately, the waist seams continue to be my enemy. I may have found a way around it by using "add custom split normals" under the geometry data. I merge the seam vertices, add custom split normals, then split UV seams before export. It has fixed some normals problems. Export after weight data transfer has been a problem too. But, remember that I left the .0001 gap to stop the shadows on hems? Well, I'm starting to try to use sharps. Some already gapped meshes, I merge the vertices to get them back together, edge split them, then apply sharp. It seems to be working. ))) No gap, no shadow and a clean edge. )

 

I may go back to playing with .objs, but I think I'm making progress just working with geoms. Lots to figure out. Sometimes, I get strange shadows in places there simply shouldn't be. No clue why. Sometimes, 2.8 applies sharps in places they shouldn't be on import. I just have to be aware this happens and be sure to remove them.

 

Looks like my next upload may be another mini dress with a corset! Oh well! Still working on those darn waist seams!

[JoshQ]

Forgot to tell you, on Sakura you have the multiplier triplicated (or the original creator did that).

[Guest]

Hey Josh! I honestly don't know what you mean by "triplicated"??? When I work with GIMP, I've noticed the .dds images deteriorate when saved as DXT5 and later reopened. They get blotchy and develop non-gray tints that have to be desaturated, but they still have a lower appearance quality. So, I work with the multipliers uncompressed. Even rgb color channel masks and overlays have deteriorated. I use to make the final multiplier DXT5, but it really doesn't save that much on file size, so now, I just leave them uncompressed... Is that what you mean by "triplicated"??? 

 

All other images, I compress. Alpha/ diffuse maps and speculars DXT1, normal masks, rgb and rgba masks and overlays, DXT5 (usually).

 

Or is it something different???

[JoshQ]

I mean the same multiplier is included three times inside the .package which isn’t necessary, you can have one multiplier regardless of how many variations you create but it seems that was the original creators omission. The only “problem” when this happens is the size of the file, in this case the whole package weights 3.2MB when it should be 1 or less, it sounds insignificant but the more CC you have the more the game will take to process it.

[Guest]

Are you sure its not the alpha and diffuse maps? The multiplier has the shading for the torso under the skirt, but the others do not. When you open TSRW in mesh> materials, where the normal map is, I also replace the other maps to match my mesh, but only for LOD 1. I don't know why TSRW does it this way.

 

The package size is partly my being lazy and partly the problems with image texture deterioration in GIMP. I just used LOD 1 wso for LOD 2. The actual multiplier is left uncompressed as it gets messed up looking in DXT5 if I reopen it it several times. 

[Guest]

Went out with my husband and played a little. ) But, I have been working a bit too. Mostly practice, and going back to apply new knowledge to shelved projects. I still find it easier to just duplicate the skirt mesh, instead of solidify. But, I think I do a better final job now because I understand using mark sharp on the edges. I went back to the long coats and what I did was to merge all vertices, which removes the .0001 gap at the hemline. Then, I edge split the hems and apply mark sharp, and there's no gap and no shadows. ) I also did the sleeve cuffs and corsets. They both look much better, but still not ready for prime time. I don't like the collar and will have to redo it. Both are in test and look good, but the heels clip the coat on poses. May not worry about that if everything else looks good during game play.

 

I'm starting to realize there are things that interfere with other things when transferring between my blenders. I have to work on that. I continuously have sharp edges being applied by blender, in places that make seams not blend if I don't catch them before export.

 

Have you ever seen this? Do you know how to stop it? Or I just have to be sure to look every time?

This is that Lianaa dress I started a while ago, but had waist seam problems. I redid top and bottom to be sure the meshes matched EA seams and I think Blender 2.8 may have fixed the seams. I'm also noticing that Smug Tomato's geom tools seem to fix neck and ankle seams on export! This is especially great for me since Meshing Tool Kit gives me an error when I try to fix seams on teen meshes. This is one that I merged, edge split and marked sharp the hem and ruffles.

 

Also trying to work on decimate. The long coat is a 2 piece LOD 1, but I used a base package that has 1 piece LOD 2 and 3. So, I tried merging the top and bottom, and using decimate. I think it worked on these.

[JoshQ]

I wouldn’t use decimate on LOD1 because it might ruin the normals. The reason a mesh uses two ‘LOD 1s’ is because it uses more than 60 bones, so by dividing in two you can get around that limitation.

 

EA normally cuts two or more fingers or a section of the garment, but you can also divide your mesh in two by the hip or separate the arms which is a little faster / easier. Then you have to clone a garment from the game that uses two or more mesh groups (almost all outfits use at least two groups).

 

 

[Guest]

Hey Josh! If you don't decimate LOD 1 to reduce poly count for LODs 2 and 3, what do you use?

 

I understand about group 0 and group 1 for LOD 1, to allow for more than 60 bones in a mesh. A few EA outfits even use two groups for LOD 2 and 3. The Sakura mini didn't need two groups as the EA nightshirt matched up pretty well. Actually, all the minis will work with the bones from the nightshirt... only that on my meshes with breast cleavage, I must do a manual bone weight transfer for the individual breasts, or they appear blocky.

 

The long coat, the full length Sakura dress and the Lianaa dress are 3 that I'm working on with 2 groups for at least LOD 1 because I need the skirt bones. I generally split the mesh at the waist since I can then use an EA top and a skirt to transfer bones from.

 

 

I've experimented with franken meshing an EA 2 group mesh to make one, and using that as the bone template for both top and bottom of my mesh. Sometimes, that transfers extra bones that really aren't used in the respective halves, but yes, I can get more than 60 bones and the skirt works better. In some ways, I think that may work better since the waist bones (spine 0) have the same origin.

 

I actually tried splitting fingers and parts of a leg, the way EA does on some meshes, but the leg didn't align properly and you could see a gap around the thigh.

 

One of my biggest problems now is that the waist seam on the Lianaa dress looks great! AND now I'm trying to remember what I did to get there!!!

[Guest]

I think I might have something worked out? So far, the af and tf Lianaa dresses look pretty good in game testing.

 

What I tried this time, is to join the top and bottom meshes and merge all vertices. Then, edge split the hems and mark sharp. The mesh is perfectly smooth from neck to ankles except the sharp hem. I go to object data> geometry data> add custom split normals data and hide that mesh. Then, I open the top half of the mesh and do data transfer> custom split normals. Rinse and repeat with the bottom mesh.

 

I put the meshes in a base EA tight halter package and opened that in TSRW to extract the mesh groups wsos. I franken meshed the EA tight halter dress wsos and even though the total number of bones in that combined mesh is more than 60, my top and bottom meshes only took the bones they needed in Meshing Tool Kit. I skipped seam fixer. I appears that Blender 2.8 with Smug Tomato's geom tool cleans those seams when the right seam fix types are used. Tool kit gives me an error when trying to do a teen geom or wso, and doesn't fix the seams, but Blender seems to work. ))))) HAPPY!

 

So, I skip seam fixer and just do bones and transfer morphs on tool kit now. Cross your fingers for me... both af and tf seem okay so far. If this method really does work, I'll go back and try it on the other meshes.

And yes, no cheating on the tf mesh. I really made a teen mesh like with the maid outfit. This one wasn't to hard. I'm starting to get use to using 2.8.

Anyway, just got done a 3 hour, 6 km walk with my husband and son. The boys are taking a nap!!! Going with my sister and mom to the wine shop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nonsequitur]

very clean - impressive!

[Guest]

Thank you! But remember, the multipliers are basically by the original creator... I just move things. I think I'm starting to get it. I'll be playing these for a while to be sure there are no glitches. It seems I always find something after staring at it long enough. But, I'm hoping this new way I'm transferring normals will be a way that always works one one or two piece meshes.

 

Those shadows you had... are they when you use 2.8? I've had a problem with 2.8 adding sharps to places I didn't put them. They'll be at shoulder to body seams, neck to shoulder seams, armpits, leg seams, on the skirt and on body sides. I clear them, but they sometimes come back sometimes. If I miss them on export, they cause shadows or bad body seams.

 

I also get them sometimes after normals transfers, and have no clue why.

[JoshQ]

On 10/15/2019 at 1:45 AM, LadySmoks said:

what do you use?

I use a Balancer Lite which allows you to "lock" vertices, that's usefull to avoid decimating the leg / neck seam. You probably could do the same on Blender by 'hiding' the vertices, making a vertex group or by being veeeery careful when moving the slider.

[Guest]

AHHHH! Well, as with MS, I don't foresee buying a program. As you said, if I keep at it, I might eventually be able to do it with Blender. The biggest problems I have with 2.8 is that decimate seems to effect bone weights, and it won't export the meshes sometimes. So, I've been cheating again and using LOD 1 for 2 and 3 also, while working on the fix.

 

I wonder if data transfer for vertex data is the answer? Guess I'll have to try it! I'm NOT afraid of all the stuff in 2.8 anymore! )

 

A really big  deal is that I think I've been successful in doing a couple of normals transfer. The Lianaa dress looks very good so far, and I really didn't like how the open back looked on the cocktail dress, so I remade it with a new mesh that I was also able to do normals data transfer.

 

THAT... is the mass production mesh I've been trying to get working. Its a base mini dress with breast cleavage that I can match practically any multiplier to. )

All I have to do is open a TSRW project and import the working wso, and tah dah! ) Then, I match the multiplier to the mesh UV img... of course, there's the alpha / diffuser, normal and specular which are all based on the multiplier, then the mask and overlay. It goes pretty quick with the working wso since my goal is to just make nice mini dresses.

This is one that I'm remaking now to match the new mesh... Getting ready to do the multiplier now. It'll be in a package in less than an hour. )

I learned to test with light colors since they will show bad seams  better than dark colors.

 

I wrote earlier that it seems that Smug's geom tool is fixing neck and ankle seams on export! So, I think I've conquered your first valued critique on the maid outfit... or at least Smug did. ) Now, I think I got the waist seams! ))) And in between, I now understand the use of sharps for making neat hems and not leaving even the .0001 gap to stop shadows, and bone weight transfer. )))

 

You're making a mesher out of me! Thank you again!!!

 

I also deleted the inner skirt from this mesh and tried remaking it with solidify, but again, I got an error message on export. I'll try it again later. You've seen how I walk away from a problem, but eventually go back to it. I even went back and got the long coat looking much better using sharps on the corset. Still some things I don't like, and I'll take those on later.

 

I made a true teen mesh of the Lianaa dress, and will make one for the mini dress...... eventually.... honestly, maybe not quite as short?