slaver The Slaver's Spellbook

[DocClox]

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

I took a brand new slave and gave her 10 orgasms in a row with slave to the flesh active, and her submission was about 25 afterwards. Does that sound right?  

 

It does seem a bit low. Do you have the pahe_slso patch  installed? It's on the download page. It has two edited PAHE files and they need to override the originals or you get the non-SLSO behavior.

 

It's also worth checking that you have Separate Orgasms enabled in the SexLab MCM, or else you'll only get one orgasm for each actor at the end of sex. I'm not sure if the widget will still do its thing or not.

 

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

Could you explain a little bit about how repeated orgasms train PAHE slaves?

 

Sure. SLSO sends out a mod event for each orgasm. So when PAHE starts its train  function (called by sex and whipping) I register to catch the event:

	StorageUtil.SetIntValue(_actor, "pah_orgasm_training", 1)
	StorageUtil.SetIntValue(_actor, "pah_orgasm_count", 0)
	StorageUtil.SetIntValue(_actor, "pah_orgasm_enjoy", 0)
	;Debug.Notification("registering for orgasms")
	RegisterForModEvent("SexLabOrgasm", "SLSO_Orgasms")

Then, each time the event fires, I catch it, check to make sure it's a slave and that she has the training flag I set on the actor record.

Event SLSO_Orgasms(Form f, int enjoy, int count)
	Actor a = f as Actor
	if a == None
		return
	endif
	PAHSlave slave = PAH.GetSlave(a)
	if slave == None
		return
	endif
	if StorageUtil.GetIntValue(a, "pah_orgasm_training", 0) != 1
		return
	endif

If that all passes, I make a note of the count and enjoyment so far

 

	StorageUtil.SetIntValue(a, "pah_orgasm_count", count)
	StorageUtil.SetIntValue(a, "pah_orgasm_enjoy", enjoy)
	Debug.trace("orgasm: " + a.GetDisplayName() + ": enjoy = " + enjoy + ", count = " + count )
	;Debug.Notification("orgasm: " + a.GetDisplayName() + ": enjoy = " + enjoy + ", count = " + count )

If you enable Papurus debugging, you can look for that orgasm: line in the logs.

 

Anyway. Once the training finishes, I check the values stored:

 

	int count = StorageUtil.GetIntValue(Victim, "pah_orgasm_count", 0) 
	int enjoy = StorageUtil.GetIntValue(Victim, "pah_orgasm_enjoy", 0) 

	; rationale: if a slave runs and is punished by sex,
	; the slave gets a severity of 100 / 2 * 0.2 == 10
	; getting an enjoyment of 30 is easy once you char has some skills, so 30/5 == 6
	; enjoyment can go as high as you like if you have the skill and patience
	; but 10 seems reasonable given what I've seem from SLSO.
	;
	float severity = count / 2  + enjoy / 5

	Debug.trace("training severity = " + severity)
	;Debug.Notification("training severity = " + severity)
	slave.TrainSubmission(severity)

So 10 orgasms should have had had a severity of around 35, at a guess, or about the same as six normal sex trainings. Maybe more depending on how long you keep your slaves in the red during sex

 

The "training severity" line should appear in the Papyrus logs as well. Betwenn that and the formula above, you'll have a good idea of how effective your training should have been.

 

(And I should probably unset that training flag once sex has finished, which I just noticed I'm not doing. But that doesn't affect your case.)

 

Anyway, that's how it works. My guess is the patch isn't applying properly.

 

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

Also, I don't know if someone has already posted this, but the bind and release spell for sttf seem to both bind.  

 

Oops, no. I'll look at that. Unbinding them isn't a thing I do very often. Or at all, thinking about it

[Guest]

I know I'm dumb, but what do I type into the console to add the spells?

[DocClox]

The easiest way is to go to Cronvangr cave. There's a book on the table called "Opus Korneum". Read that to get the spells.

 

Failing that, "help docbook_" and look for the spell entries, and then player.addspell <id> where the id is the one from the help output

[InsanityFactor]

9 hours ago, DocClox said:

 

It does seem a bit low. Do you have the pahe_slso patch  installed? It's on the download page. It has two edited PAHE files and they need to override the originals or you get the non-SLSO behavior.

 

It's also worth checking that you have Separate Orgasms enabled in the SexLab MCM, or else you'll only get one orgasm for each actor at the end of sex. I'm not sure if the widget will still do its thing or not.

 

 

Sure. SLSO sends out a mod event for each orgasm. So when PAHE starts its train  function (called by sex and whipping) I register to catch the event:

	StorageUtil.SetIntValue(_actor, "pah_orgasm_training", 1)
	StorageUtil.SetIntValue(_actor, "pah_orgasm_count", 0)
	StorageUtil.SetIntValue(_actor, "pah_orgasm_enjoy", 0)
	;Debug.Notification("registering for orgasms")
	RegisterForModEvent("SexLabOrgasm", "SLSO_Orgasms")

Then, each time the event fires, I catch it, check to make sure it's a slave and that she has the training flag I set on the actor record.

Event SLSO_Orgasms(Form f, int enjoy, int count)
	Actor a = f as Actor
	if a == None
		return
	endif
	PAHSlave slave = PAH.GetSlave(a)
	if slave == None
		return
	endif
	if StorageUtil.GetIntValue(a, "pah_orgasm_training", 0) != 1
		return
	endif

If that all passes, I make a note of the count and enjoyment so far

 

	StorageUtil.SetIntValue(a, "pah_orgasm_count", count)
	StorageUtil.SetIntValue(a, "pah_orgasm_enjoy", enjoy)
	Debug.trace("orgasm: " + a.GetDisplayName() + ": enjoy = " + enjoy + ", count = " + count )
	;Debug.Notification("orgasm: " + a.GetDisplayName() + ": enjoy = " + enjoy + ", count = " + count )

If you enable Papurus debugging, you can look for that orgasm: line in the logs.

 

Anyway. Once the training finishes, I check the values stored:

 

	int count = StorageUtil.GetIntValue(Victim, "pah_orgasm_count", 0) 
	int enjoy = StorageUtil.GetIntValue(Victim, "pah_orgasm_enjoy", 0) 

	; rationale: if a slave runs and is punished by sex,
	; the slave gets a severity of 100 / 2 * 0.2 == 10
	; getting an enjoyment of 30 is easy once you char has some skills, so 30/5 == 6
	; enjoyment can go as high as you like if you have the skill and patience
	; but 10 seems reasonable given what I've seem from SLSO.
	;
	float severity = count / 2  + enjoy / 5

	Debug.trace("training severity = " + severity)
	;Debug.Notification("training severity = " + severity)
	slave.TrainSubmission(severity)

So 10 orgasms should have had had a severity of around 35, at a guess, or about the same as six normal sex trainings. Maybe more depending on how long you keep your slaves in the red during sex

 

The "training severity" line should appear in the Papyrus logs as well. Betwenn that and the formula above, you'll have a good idea of how effective your training should have been.

 

(And I should probably unset that training flag once sex has finished, which I just noticed I'm not doing. But that doesn't affect your case.)

 

Anyway, that's how it works. My guess is the patch isn't applying properly.

 

 

Oops, no. I'll look at that. Unbinding them isn't a thing I do very often. Or at all, thinking about it

I see, that makes sense, thanks for showing me under the hood. I'm pretty certain everything is working fine, and those numbers were more of a guess, it may have been less orgasms or more submission, but it sounds like it was about right based on the code. What I'd like to know is what would be the most efficient way to train submission using SLSO with your mod. So far I've been using Devious Devices to raise arousal, then I lock it at 80-100 and start a sex scene. Is it more effective to keep the slave in the red or just maximize the number of orgasms? Or rather, what is the proper combination of both? Also, is there any sort of diminishing returns on this type of training? Or will 30 orgasms take you straight to 100 sub? 

[Sulrandir]

2 hours ago, DocClox said:

The easiest way is to go to Cronvangr cave. There's a book on the table called "Opus Korneum". Read that to get the spells.

 

Failing that, "help docbook_" and look for the spell entries, and then player.addspell <id> where the id is the one from the help output

Just a thought, but if acquiring the spells is tied to reading the book, couldn't you also "help korneum" to get the book's ID, then additem to drop the book in inventory, then just... Read it? Just thinking it'd be two console commands, instead of one for each spell.

[InsanityFactor]

1 hour ago, Sulrandir said:

Just a thought, but if acquiring the spells is tied to reading the book, couldn't you also "help korneum" to get the book's ID, then additem to drop the book in inventory, then just... Read it? Just thinking it'd be two console commands, instead of one for each spell.

I used AddItemMenu to get the book and that seemed to work fine for me. 

[Sulrandir]

2 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

I used AddItemMenu to get the book and that seemed to work fine for me. 

Great mod, and a staple in my own LO, Same basic idea, either way: get the book, read the book, learn the spells.

[DocClox]

7 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

I see, that makes sense, thanks for showing me under the hood. I'm pretty certain everything is working fine, and those numbers were more of a guess, it may have been less orgasms or more submission, but it sounds like it was about right based on the code. What I'd like to know is what would be the most efficient way to train submission using SLSO with your mod. So far I've been using Devious Devices to raise arousal, then I lock it at 80-100 and start a sex scene. Is it more effective to keep the slave in the red or just maximize the number of orgasms? Or rather, what is the proper combination of both? Also, is there any sort of diminishing returns on this type of training? Or will 30 orgasms take you straight to 100 sub? 

 

It's tricky to say.  Some slaves are more resistant to sex training than others. I've had some go to 100 after three or four orgasms, while others never really seem to get there without at least one whipping. PAHE gives the girls different personality types, so that's probably why. I tend to do them enough that the get to submission > 60 and then get them back to base. After that I prowl their ranks looking for someone who could submit more or who isn't pregnant. I've also been known to leave it running while I go eat.  I ust got back to the keyboard to find out that Number 3 had just racked up 28 orgasms and >6000 enjoyment.

 

I'm still not entirely clear on the best approach myself. Between SLSO and PAHE, there's a lot of code I don't fully understand,. and to be honest, that I don't want to fully understand. I like it that I can't always predict how my girls will react. One thing I will say though, is that SexLab sex skill makes a hell of a difference. It's a lot easier to raise that bar as a Grand Master than it is as a novice.

 

4 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

I used AddItemMenu to get the book and that seemed to work fine for me.  

Well, we have an MCM now, or will in the next release, and one of the options is going to be to cheat the book into your inventory. Just once, probably.

[Guest]

how do  get the books?

[DocClox]

Either go to Cronvangr cave and get the copy on the table in the vamp's lair, or you can use the console to add it to your inventory.

[InsanityFactor]

2 hours ago, DocClox said:

 

It's tricky to say.  Some slaves are more resistant to sex training than others. I've had some go to 100 after three or four orgasms, while others never really seem to get there without at least one whipping. PAHE gives the girls different personality types, so that's probably why. I tend to do them enough that the get to submission > 60 and then get them back to base. After that I prowl their ranks looking for someone who could submit more or who isn't pregnant. I've also been known to leave it running while I go eat.  I ust got back to the keyboard to find out that Number 3 had just racked up 28 orgasms and >6000 enjoyment.

 

I'm still not entirely clear on the best approach myself. Between SLSO and PAHE, there's a lot of code I don't fully understand,. and to be honest, that I don't want to fully understand. I like it that I can't always predict how my girls will react. One thing I will say though, is that SexLab sex skill makes a hell of a difference. It's a lot easier to raise that bar as a Grand Master than it is as a novice.

 

Well, we have an MCM now, or will in the next release, and one of the options is going to be to cheat the book into your inventory. Just once, probably.

I see, this is my first time using SLSO so I'm still getting familiar with it, I'll just keep experimenting and find what works best. Thanks for the replies and the amazing work you're doing, I can't wait to see where this goes.

[DocClox]

OK, so:

 

 

The next release will have an MCM. How much it will do is still uncertain.

 

I've managed to set it up so that auto-renaming slaves is optional. What I'd like to do is let you set a prefix and a suffix, so your slave would get renamed as "PREFIX "number" Suffix. So if you set your prefix to "#" and you suffix to " Slut" then your eleventh slave would be renamed "#11 Slut".

 

Only I'm struggling with the text input. Oh well, nothing a careful read of the documentation won't solve.

 

I've also got a script to bundle up new releases properly, so I can get archives out with fewer missing files and less effort on my part. Hopefully. With a bit of luck I'll test that this weekend.

 

Oh, and PDF documentation for the next release as well. Assuming I don't forget to add it to the manifest, anyway.

 

Incidentally, which do you prefer?

 

 

The dark bits are alpha, so it may be hard to see against a bright background. Then again, it's only a menu splash image, so making it out clearly isn't that important.

[InsanityFactor]

My vote's for the darker background.

[DocClox]

I did a blog post summarising the week's progress. Probably not much that hasn't been posted here, but if anyone's interested...

 

 

[Guest]

On 4/4/2019 at 4:27 PM, InsanityFactor said:

I see, that makes sense, thanks for showing me under the hood. I'm pretty certain everything is working fine, and those numbers were more of a guess, it may have been less orgasms or more submission, but it sounds like it was about right based on the code. What I'd like to know is what would be the most efficient way to train submission using SLSO with your mod. So far I've been using Devious Devices to raise arousal, then I lock it at 80-100 and start a sex scene. Is it more effective to keep the slave in the red or just maximize the number of orgasms? Or rather, what is the proper combination of both? Also, is there any sort of diminishing returns on this type of training? Or will 30 orgasms take you straight to 100 sub? 

I'm having a problem where I can't get them to actually orgasm, I think. It always just stays in the red. I don't know if it's related to this mod or what, but I think I'm clearly doing something wrong.

[DocClox]

Check the SLSO MCM. By default rape victims are blocked from orgasm.

[InsanityFactor]

I'm not sure if this is actually an issue, but I'll just post this just in case.

 

All of the plugin downloads (exposure rate, Slavetats plugin, SLHP plugin, and PAH sex training) seem to all have the same files, which appears to be all the plugins, so essentially it's four downloads for one folder that contains all the patches.

 

Like I said I don't know if this is actually a mistake/issue, but I thought I'd post just to let Doc know.

[DocClox]

Ah, OK. I wrote a script to package up releases,. Clearly I didn't quite get all the bugs out.

 

Thanks for the report, I'll sort it out tonight.

 

[edit]

 

Also, I think the slso patch is broken. I hada quick test this morning, and left a scene running duing the shower. at the end she'd racked up an enoyment in the thousands and had a submission of 6. So that needs looking at, too.

 

That could be the same problem, thinking about it. If the patch files aren't installing properly, then we'll get the default behavior.

 

[edit]

 

... AND, I just figured out why the slave names keep resetting after I change 'em. That one's been driving me a bit nuty, and I don't mind saying so.

[rcy68]

I came here to post the same thing InsanityFactor did. I was installing with MO and it thought it was something to do with BAIN. Have to say, I was scratching my head over it. Glad to see it`s getting looked into. Guess I`ll resume my SO Breeder run in FNV until then. As always, thanks and keep up the good work. It`s appreciated.

 

[DocClox]

OK. New version up. Patch archives should be fixed and names assigned by Brand should stay assigned unless you decide to change them.

[frule]

I don't receive any spells when i recover the book from the cave and when i try the "help docbook" no spells appear in the list. Is there anything else i can try?

 

[DocClox]

That's odd. Do you get any matches for "help docbook" at all?

 

I can't imagine how you'd get the book and not see the spells in the console. What's the book's title? (there's a skillbook on a different table. The book you're looking for is called "Opus Korneum")

 

 

[DocClox]

Something I'd like to bounce off the readership here.

 

Currently, getting the spells feels a bit too easy for my tastes. You get a lot of spells, some of them quite powerful, for comparatively little effort. That's been great for testing the spells, but I think I want to make us work a bit harder to get the goodies.

 

So the question becomes, how hard to you want to have to work? Now I know, for some people the answer is always going to be "not at all", and there's always going to be an MCM option to cheat the book into your inventory if that's what you want.

 

For the rest of us, I'm thinking of having a quest to get the book. Start off talking to Enthir at the College of Winterhold, talk to a couple more mages, go on a radiant quest to a random dungeon to get the book and then get Drevis to start decoding it for you.

 

At this point, we have options.

 

•   You could get the book all at once and at that point it's little different from clearing the vamps out of Cronvangr.
•   You could get *some* of the book, and have to work to find the missing pages from other dungeons. This is probably my preferred option. It lets you start out with some of the lower level spells and have to do additional work for the better ones.
•   You could get the spellbook and a few starter spells, and then have to buy the rest from the college as normal
•   I have a couple of things in mind that are probably Master level spells. For those I might make you jump through a hoop or two anyway

There is in any event going to be a rebalancing of casting costs and skills required. Some of these things don't need any magicka at all, currently.
 
I'm also thinking that I'll make Cronvangr a quest objective at some point anyway. My vampire mage likes keeping his cattle in a cave in the middle of nowhere, so I'm thinking of adding some options to refit it as a player home; stop the spiders respawning, put some wooden flooring down, disable the fire trap, and probably add some restraints and other useful stuff. You'd have to clear the cave first, but I'd probably keep the original one accessible through a portal for wibbly-wobbly-magical-wagical reasons that would be quickly glossed over make perfect sense when you play the quest. Mainly that's so you could still satisfy radiant quests that sent you to Cronvangr.

 

Anyway, I'd welcome any thoughts on the subject.

[rjn]

1 hour ago, DocClox said:

 

 

Anyway, I'd welcome any thoughts on the subject.

They are spells for slavers so I suppose it would make sense that whoever "gives" them to you would want you to bring a slave to test them on first?  (Those folks at the College are big on testing spells on you!).  If you have a slave along then you are obviously a slaver -- if you are in the College you are at least a novice mage.  Maybe that's how you get the starter spells?  Enthir can "teach" them, then send you off to find more for him.

[DocClox]

I was thinking to have a lot of wittering on about "unethical research", at least from certain quarters. I think Drevis (who'd be goign to translate the illusion spells at least) is going to be too high up in his Ivory Tower to think about more than the purely academic ramifications. Enthir I don't see as having the skill to help much beyond giving you the initial pointer, but I might give him some goodies to sell later on. Assuming you don't try and stiff him on the initial deal he offers you, anyway.

 

It might get interesting trying to persuade Faralda or Collette to co-operate, though.

 

That said, I do have a track record at over-engineering quests. Keep It Simple might be a good rule to apply here