Beta Versions of Lovers Plugins

[Guest ThatOne]

Well, I'm not sure how much I'll actually "test" this, having only ran oblivion for short testing periods lately, but I'll try the rev96.

I think my current version is still rev90 or at most rev91.

 

I'll report any incompatibilities or oddities I find here.

[gregathit]

Well' date=' I'm not sure how much I'll actually "test" this, having only ran oblivion for short testing periods lately, but I'll try the rev96.

I think my current version is still rev90 or at most rev91.

 

I'll report any incompatibilities or oddities I find here.

[/quote']

 

 

Do only what you feel comfortable with and have time for. Any bit, no matter how small is appreciated!

 

Enjoy.

[Sarnaath]

 

What are you guys thoughts on waves 4 and on? Any plugins that you feel should be targeted next as critical?

 

LoversTrueCrimeEx? I don't know how popular that is. I get LoversTrueCrime functionality confused with LoversPayBandit' date=' so I personally wouldn't test them together.

 

Anyone have any comments\corrections\revisions\suggestions\improvements to the betas that are already up? I think all issues have been addressed to this point but I want to be sure before I begin putting together the new packs.

 

I've been meaning to look into the undressing settings for sex and rape animations. The menus distinguish between female and male settings, but IICR it's not gender at all but offense/defense position. When my male character gets raped, I think his clothing removal follows the female settings not the male settings. If this is right and my memory isn't failing me, then I think the menus could be changed to use other, less misleading, terminology. I don't have any good suggestions for that at the moment though. I also don't know how futa settings factor into all this. I'll check this out tonight with my new character and see if it's an issue or if I'm just imagining things.

[gregathit]

You could be right on the gender deals. I will have to eyeball this myself.

 

Futa however is simple. There is a setting for "attacking woman grows penis" that you can turn on or off and it works. Instead of using a futa cock the woman just dry humps you.

 

 

Edit: Truecrime I view as more of a "specialty" plugin since it doesn't seem to be as popular as the others listed above. Coupled with the fact that I have never used it, I am not certain that I am the one to test it right now. Without doing a bunch of reading I wouldn't know if it was working correctly or not....

 

This doesn't mean I will ignore it, I just don't think it rates enough to go in the 1st round. If I am wrong\out of touch and bunches of folks do want it then I will reconsider.

[gregathit]

Ok, here is what I found and would like others to confirm:

 

1. The sexual exploits spell (lovers settings) main undressing options are indeed gender specific.

 

2. However, if you turn on raper undressing settings (it has a toggle on\off) then those settings are not gender specific. They are offense (currently labeled male) and defense (currently labeled female). Playing around with them using the RaperS plugin I am pretty confident about this. I would like others to play a bit with it just to confirm that I am not off my rocker.

 

If it turns out this is correct a simple relabeling of the raper undressing settings menu will clear this up.

[varenne]

LoversTrueCrimeEx is actually Dark Bloodlines Lite. There is at least one 'incomplete' jail, Bruma. Incomplete in that it does not work as intended. I have a possible fix for that, but I'll need to find consensus on it first. There is functionality similar to PayBandit, but also a bit more extensive, IMO.

 

Paybandit basically adds some bandits which confront you on roads, bridges etc. that your PC can interact with, that demand money or sex. Some other options which I won't go into right now.

 

Neither of these IMO are primary or even secondary MODs.

 

Offense/defense positions for H animations is based on who is initiating it, whether it is consensual or rape and it is not always 100%. Best I can tell the less than 100% is due to which MODs you are using to initiate H. Some may be due to ini files also.

[Sarnaath]

You could be right on the gender deals. I will have to eyeball this myself.

 

Futa however is simple. There is a setting for "attacking woman grows penis" that you can turn on or off and it works. Instead of using a futa cock the woman just dry humps you.

 

I misinterpreted the futa setting' date=' I didn't realize it was only visual. Anyways, I set different combinations of upper and lower body clothing for the 4 settings (male/female and normal/rape). With Shadowrunner's LoversRaperS the female was receiving even when attacking with whatever ini setting I had. With Lovers RaperS Latest, the female was in the "offender" position when attacking, to use Tachicat2 terminology. So for M/F the actual positions are mod dependent. I used RaperS Latest for testing.

 

It appears to me that the positions, not the gender, sets the clothing options. For rape I had Male wear both upper and lower, and Female remove upper but wear lower. If the female (bandit with armor) was offender and raping my male PC, she kept her clothes on, and my character lost his cuirass (reverse of my 'gender' undressing setting). With M/M: attacker kept his clothes on and attackee removed his upper no matter whether my PC was attacker or attackee. When my male character raped the female bandit, he kept his clothes on and she removed her upper (so consistent with my settings based on gender).

 

For consensual I used Tachicat2 and LoversHooker and got similar results. For M/F with my male character giving and the female receiving, my male character removed his lower but kept his upper (per my setting) and the female removed both (again, per my setting). When reversed (female giving and male receiving), she removed only her lower and my male character removed both (so reverse of my settings based on gender). Futa setting had no effect on clothing (which would be expected).

 

I picked up on this fairly quickly because as a gay guy there's mostly M/M in my game, and the clothing removal I was seeing in the game was not following my first settings, which assumed they were actual gender settings. I have no idea how many other people notice or even see any discrepancies. I just suggest that if you are correcting/updating rev 96 it's an appropriate time to consider rewording the menu descriptions to more accurately reflect what they actually appear to do.

 

I don't have good suggestions though. Top/Bottom works for me but probably is not used much in the straight community. Offence/Deffence would only make sense if you script Lovers mods. Offender/Receiver, the Tachicat2 terminology, might work though. Maybe Giver/Receiver, used in LoversSlaveTrader slave training options? It's probably best you guys make a decision, as you probably have a better sense of what might work best with most people who use Lovers mods, if it warrants a change.

 

Edit: Truecrime I view as more of a "specialty" plugin since it doesn't seem to be as popular as the others listed above...

 

Sounds good. I use it so I'll keep an eye open (and review what it does and what LoversPayBandit does).

[gregathit]

Well for the rape undressing setting I think it is pretty straight forward that gender is not an issue. Perhaps Attacker (offensive) and Victim (defensive) might properly describe things.

 

As to the normal settings - when I used joburg and cranked the settings up on it to test M\M, F\F, M\F, F\M stalkers\victims I found that they stuck with the Male settings and Female settings whether giving or receiving made no difference. I think as you said it may depend entirely on what plugins you are using. Either that or I am missing something.

 

It may be that Tachicat2 and Lovers Hooker are using the raper settings. I might try turning off the raper undressing settings and see if that does anything different.

[gregathit]

Going back to the raw Japanese - they are actually using the genders even for the rape settings - although the rape settings clearly seem to be non gender specific.

 

It could very well be that they are basing all sex as straight only. This still doesn't wash with RaperS.esp and its settings. Ah.....things can be so complicated sometimes. Well, I am too tired to think straight so I will play with the settings some tomorrow.

[varenne]

Going back to the raw Japanese - they are actually using the genders even for the rape settings - although the rape settings clearly seem to be non gender specific.

 

It could very well be that they are basing all sex as straight only. This still doesn't wash with RaperS.esp and its settings. Ah.....things can be so complicated sometimes. Well' date=' I am too tired to think straight so I will play with the settings some tomorrow.

[/quote']

 

Just for future reference purposes and for the English user community, I propose the following perspectives or views:

Hetero - When discussing/describing male/female interactions

Gay - discussing/describing male/male interactions

Lesbian - When discussing/describing female/female interactions

*Futa - discussing/describing futa-female/male or female interactions

 

* Futa isn't necessarily a sub group of Lesbian as they can rape or have sex with both males and females as well as other futa. And of course the actual English term is hermaphrodite but I favor the use of the Japanese term, to distinguish a female body with additional male genitalia. I have not seen nor played a male body plus female genitalia, although I'm sure it could be created.

 

If this offends anyone feel free to propose other descriptions. This is simply a way of having future discussions around these in-game activities so we are all 'seeing' the same perspective when discussing MOD functionality.

[Sarnaath]

@varenne - Point taken. However, I also think using M/F, F/M... is useful and descriptive for discussing different in-game pairings, and should also be acceptable in that context.

 

As for dressing/undressing settings:

 

I played around with Joburg this morning. Nitty-gritty observations in the spoiler

 

 

With fairly high settings (and RaperS chaos mode active) but attacker level/leader set to 0, my PC was unmolested and NPCs went at it left and right. Clothing settings were set to be either fully clothed or fully undressed for normal sex, and different combinations of partly clothed for rape. I though this would help distinguish between normal and rape encounters.

 

All the NPC/NPC encounters I saw seemed to be rape, with the attacker clothed in my Male settings and the receiver clothed in my Female settings, regardless of the actual gender of the NPC. There were some outliers, but I think that was due to the NPC wearing a one-piece outfit. (I was in the IC Market District).

 

When I changed Joburg and RaperS so only my PC (a male) was the target of stalking I got some interesting results. For stalkers that initiated conversation that let me [NOD] or [REFUSE], nodding led to sex using my normal clothing settings. When stalkers just surprised my character and just started up sex, the animations used my rape clothing settings. Female stalkers, when using conversation, gave my PC 3 options, [NOD], [REFUSE], "my ass is twitching". For the first, sex was normal, my male PC giving, he was fully clothed and she was naked. For the 3rd option, the female NPC was giving, she was fully clothed, and my male PC was naked. When female stalkers surprised my PC, they were giving and had male rape undressing settings, and my male PC was receiving and wearing female rape undressing settings.

 

 

For the mods I looked at it seems fairly consistent that the undressing settings are implement by animation position not actually gender. But I wouldn't be surprised if this can be overridden by mods, and of course individual mods control which actor in the encounter is in which animation position.

 

I didn't mean to open a can of worms here. If you want to leave the menus the way they are, I understand. Since the original Japanese version used gender terminology you cannot be faulted for sticking with as true a translation as you can provide.

 

After sleeping on it, I think perhaps the best you can do, if you want to edit the menu, is to put quotes around Male and Female in the undressing menus. You can do that with %q. I tried that out in my game. I also added some carriage returns for some of the longer menu titles (%r), added some spaces in the undressing titles and before the page number brackets, and thought everything looked pretty good and reasonably conveyed what the settings do.

[gregathit]

Sorry folks, I had a rather busy day but I have received all PM's and will begin reviewing them shortly. I no problem with the terminology request from Varrene but as Sarnaath said there are times to use the other designators. Either way in the interest of avoiding confusion we should be as descriptive as we can both with our terminology and in describing what we are doing (or trying to do). If that ends up creating a wall of text then so be it.

 

I am going to run some tests but I think we all agree that the Rape Undressing submenu should be non-gender specific......right?

 

Attacker \ Victim

 

Do these two terms work for you guys? Let me know.

[varenne]

Sorry folks' date=' I had a rather busy day but I have received all PM's and will begin reviewing them shortly. I no problem with the terminology request from Varenne but as Sarnaath said there are times to use the other designators. Either way in the interest of avoiding confusion we should be as descriptive as we can both with our terminology and in describing what we are doing (or trying to do). If that ends up creating a wall of text then so be it.

 

I am going to run some tests but I think we all agree that the Rape Undressing submenu should be non-gender specific......right?

 

Attacker \ Victim

 

Do these two terms work for you guys? Let me know.

[/quote']

 

I vote for Offense/Defense as in many of the original translations, but can work with Attacker\Victim too.

 

When describing 'some thing' I like Einstien's approach of "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

 

So yeah, I'm going to fully adopt and use Sarnaath's terms where simple is the most appropriate. Besides, I like simple!

[gregathit]

Ok this is just my two cents so feel free to disagree:

 

I like Attacker \ Victim as it I think it sends a clearer signal.

Offense \ Defense sounds too much like a sports term that I think folks might not get.

 

Now I don't want the final say on this, as I can accept either naming convention (or something even better is also welcome). This project is for the community and what is best for it - not me.

 

I can always rename the menu for my personal use if it comes to that.

 

Bottom line:

Varenne votes offense \ defense

I vote attacker \ victim

 

Who wants to be the tie breaker......

[varenne]

Weird, I had another post in between Sarnaath's and gregathit and now it's gone??? Hope your database isn't dropping posts now.

 

Anyways, I've never been all that fond of offense/defense either, it's what appears in ini files.

 

How about Initiator/Receiver?

 

Since we're talking menus and NOT ini files something other than that is more appropriate I think.

 

I can go with Sarnaath's thought here too:

 

After sleeping on it' date=' I think perhaps the best you can do, if you want to edit the menu, is to put quotes around Male and Female in the undressing menus. You can do that with %q. I tried that out in my game. I also added some carriage returns for some of the longer menu titles (%r), added some spaces in the undressing titles and before the page number brackets, and thought everything looked pretty good and reasonably conveyed what the settings do.

[/quote']

 

I feel that no matter what you go with, we're still going to see posts requesting explanations...

[gregathit]

Or maybe:

 

Raper \ Victim

 

You are of course correct in that no matter which way we turn someone won't "get it". All we can do is try to pick clear enough terms that the majority are set.

 

I still haven't test the stuff you PM'd me Varenne. I am about to fire up oblivion and check it out and will get back to you. Just been too busy to do anything until just now.

[varenne]

Or maybe:

 

Raper \ Victim

 

You are of course correct in that no matter which way we turn someone won't "get it". All we can do is try to pick clear enough terms that the majority are set.

 

I still haven't test the stuff you PM'd me Varenne. I am about to fire up oblivion and check it out and will get back to you. Just been too busy to do anything until just now.

 

No worries, gonna drop out for a while. I've had a migraine for a few hours so I'm gonna get off the PC, go eat, take some aspirin and a cat nap.

 

I think Sarnaath's idea is the most logical in that it doesn't drastically change what most already know and are used to.

[gregathit]

Hope that migraine goes away quickly!

 

 

I tested your changes and loved them. The dog works perfectly for me and I had no issues with the dog's corpse. I am thinking that this is the version we run with. Sent you a PM saying the same thing.

[Sarnaath]

Attacker/Victim for the rape settings is ok, but Attacker is, kind of harsh. Maybe Aggressor...oh, wait, I went to an online thesaurus, how about Assaulter/Victim ? Meh, either is fine with me. I think they would be better than "Male"/"Female" for the rape settings. For the normal undressing settings, either leave it or add quotes around the genders. People who don't initially get it will figure it out through trial and error as I did.

 

Moving on:

 

LoversSlaveTrader:

-the xLoversSTAddTrainingToken script has a MessageEX line at the bottom that triggers when a slave "has broken as is addicted to sex." Needs a space between the %n and "has."

 

-In the Objects window, creature names - are those original or translated? The "Dobermann" could be fixed without changing the editor ID.

 

Bravil Underground:

-The Novelist quest with Mia is still problematic. Gregathit, I did notice your additional comments from Onan on how to break her, good move but there's still a problem, unfortunately. I had her trained at 113 creature but no quest update. She was broke though (Yes, Mistress/Master). So I gave up and looked in the CS. The dialog line that signals when you've completed the quest ("I'm so annoyed...") requires Creature sex number >= 5 and Human sex number >= 10. No, I didn't get that mixed up.

 

I loaded up an early save just after I got the quest from Onan, and tried to complete the quest with minimal training. Got the "I am so annoyed..." line and the quest update to take her back to the novelist with Human sex number at 12 and creature sex number at 6. I took her to the novelist and finished off the quest without ever breaking her (no mistress/master dialog).

 

I would change Onan's advice lines to reflect the actual conditions although you could do the reverse.

 

-The Novelist quest 1st quest update (quest stage 5) should read something like "... I need to go to the prostitute's mansion and talk to Madame Simza about a novelist..." (additions in bold), since I think you have to talk to her first before talking to the novelist.

 

That's it so far, I'll check the other slave quest NPC targets to see what the conditions are for completing their quests and whether Onan's advice lines are inconsistent.

 

edit: The Wayward Daughter quest requires the orc daughter to be trained by humans >= 30. Onan suggests the correct number, but doesn't specify if that's creature, human, or total. He kind of implies it should be by an orc depending on how you read the line, but an orc is not necessary.

 

The others are all fine since Onan stops giving specific advice after the 1st two quests. Of the trainer's guild quests only two (the last one with the countess, and the female warrior in the pirate ship) check for "xLoversPkrFlagSlave." I'm not sure what that is (but see below). The rest of the trainer's guild quests just check for the required number of human and/or creature trainings. Rena Bruiant's also has a check to see whether her dog Kezune is nearby because right after the line the quest updates and Kezune starts fucking her.

 

edit2: Onan's 2nd advice line about Mia: "Repetion will wear down your opponent..."

 

edit3: xLoversPkrFlagSlave is added when the NPC slave is broken. For the training guild quests only 2 of the 6 training guild quests (Cherry the warrior and the last one with the countess) require the slave to be broken. The main quest slaving assignments (like Ardaline) require the slave to be broken, and occasionally have specific human/creature training number requirements.

[varenne]

Hope that migraine goes away quickly!

 

 

I tested your changes and loved them. The dog works perfectly for me and I had no issues with the dog's corpse. I am thinking that this is the version we run with. Sent you a PM saying the same thing.

 

Yup, nothing some good food and a handful of aspirins can't solve.

 

Kewl. Odd thing with the dog corpse, it doesn't happen all the time.

[varenne]

 

 

Attacker/Victim for the rape settings is ok' date=' but Attacker is, kind of harsh. Maybe Aggressor...oh, wait, I went to an online thesaurus, how about Assaulter/Victim ? Meh, either is fine with me. I think they would be better than "Male"/"Female" for the rape settings. For the normal undressing settings, either leave it or add quotes around the genders. People who don't initially get it will figure it out through trial and error as I did.

 

 

Moving on:

[/quote']

Yes! I'll second that.I think we beat that dead horse into powder.

Make a command decision and go with it gregathit. I'll adapt to what ever you choose.

 

 

edit3: sorry for the wall of text.

 

Strictly speaking for myself, no apology needed in my book. As long as it's useful details like yours and not the latest melodrama of some member needing attention or to feed their ego, I'll read it.

[Sarnaath]

I edited it down as much as I could. I'm too verbose sometimes.

[varenne]

I edited it down as much as I could. I'm too verbose sometimes.

 

Yeah, I'm guilty of that as well, but sometimes you can end up thinning it out to much and loose the point of posting it

 

@gregathit

LoversAdultPlayPlusforSSP.esp

 

There is a minor issue with the version I'm using, which I think is a fork from the main one, just can't remember whic one it is.

 

The issue and it is minor is the F key will allow you to activate the selection and cycle menu during PC/Creature sex or rapes, but since it is not written to trigger creature animations they just stand there or cycle through an idle till done.

 

I didn't see a version in the 10-27-12vA lovers testing group, else I'd load that up and check.

 

One short-term solution would be to disable the F during creature sex, re-enable it when done, so it still works for NPCs. Or just do a (pseudo code) creature check of == 1, disable F key (I forget what number that is) so it remains that way.

 

A better solution would be to add the ability to cycle through creature animations, maybe something Donkey can help out with or work into his current plans in the future?

 

No rush, just throwing out stuff while I still remember it.

[Sarnaath]

Re: Onan's advice lines for the Mia quest. These are only suggestions, what I tried out in my game.

 

For the first line, I changed it to: "Breaking the pride of a female knight ... for you ... a newcomer ... this will be a good introduction to slave training." I thought the ending "this will be difficult" wasn't actually true, and forcing the player to train Mia with creature and human training was actually a good introduction to slave training.

 

For the second line: "Repetition will wear down your opponent. Train her with animals at least five times, and at least ten times with any of the races. Or all of them!" I'm not as familiar with Oblivion lore as I'm sure you guys are but I assume using "humans" isn't lore appropriate. So I used "races" because everyone picks out a race at the beginning of the game so should probably understand "races" does not mean creatures. Added the last comment just to ensure no one though Mia had to be trained 10 times by one race.

 

Then I added a 3rd line: "Remember, you must periodically speak with the slave to determine whether training is complete." If there was a quest update after speaking to Onan, then that would be the place to tell the player they need to speak with the slave they are training. But there isn't so a dialog line will have to do. I didn't even need a clean save for the 3rd line to come up when speaking to Onan. I don't know how comfortable you are, gregathit, with adding an additional response. This is just a suggestion to head off some of the confusion people have with telling when the slaving quests are done.

[varenne]

 

 

Re: Onan's advice lines for the Mia quest. These are only suggestions' date=' what I tried out in my game.

 

For the first line, I changed it to: "Breaking the pride of a female knight ... for you ... a newcomer ... this will be a good introduction to slave training." I thought the ending "this will be difficult" wasn't actually true, and forcing the player to train Mia with creature and human training was actually a good introduction to slave training.

 

 

For the second line: "Repetition will wear down your opponent. Train her with animals at least five times, and at least ten times with any of the races. Or all of them!" I'm not as familiar with Oblivion lore as I'm sure you guys are but I assume using "humans" isn't lore appropriate. So I used "races" because everyone picks out a race at the beginning of the game so should probably understand "races" does not mean creatures. Added the last comment just to ensure no one though Mia had to be trained 10 times by one race.

 

This may be a direct reference to the fact by the original MOD author, that there are 10 races in Tamriel, hence the need for the quantity 10. Example and more details in the Hermaeus Mora Quest, where you are tasked with collecting the souls from the 10 races, to acquire the Oghma Infinium. I agree the term human would be less lore appropriate.

 

 

 

Then I added a 3rd line: "Remember, you must periodically speak with the slave to determine whether training is complete." If there was a quest update after speaking to Onan, then that would be the place to tell the player they need to speak with the slave they are training. But there isn't so a dialog line will have to do. I didn't even need a clean save for the 3rd line to come up when speaking to Onan. I don't know how comfortable you are, gregathit, with adding an additional response. This is just a suggestion to head off some of the confusion people have with telling when the slaving quests are done.