I like the idea of license awareness, where the follower can buy a license for you in SLS.

I love it! Much of your ideas deal with issues I'm having with DF right now.

1) Guided Deals: Hopefully this could avoid deals like I have now - being a whore, but also having to wear a plug as part of the same deal

2) External Slavery: I'm "pretending" to be enslaved, but I actually have enslavement turned off, because DF slavery is so bad.

3) Households: I'm also "pretending" that my follower has deviously stolen the ownership of  Breezehome, so I would love that to actually be in the mod.

Also, I'm not into suits or hoods, but the maid deal sounds hot.

Looks great so far.

How about that if your will power and speech are high enough, you can barter with your follower for deals?

Example is that if your follower adds a random rule you don't like you can offer to exchange it from a list of 2 or 3 deals depending on your will power and resistance scores.

If your will power is too low, or you are enslaved, then you would not be given this option.

Of course, if you are not enslaved, then the added deals will count toward your enslavement.

Everything in here sounds great. Looking forward to playing with these upgrades. The things I think are the most interesting are: spanking deal, maid deal, marriage & households, guided path, radiant deals - but it all looks like it'll add a bunch of value to DFC.

One minor request/ suggestion - you mention that for the the Hood deal for Tier 3 Rubber Pet Deal you "must beg to be able to eat/drink." That's fantastic - is it possible to add that functionality to any DFC deal based gag?

• Amulet deal - tier 1/2 modular deal. Must wear an amulet given by the follower. It impairs enchanting. (DONE)
• Ring deal - tier 1/2 modular deal. Must wear a ring given by the follower. It impairs smithing. (DONE)
• Circlet deal - tier 1/2 modular deal. Must wear a circlet given by the follower. It impairs alchemy. (DONE)

I like the concept, I've been thinking about these three skills.  In my most recent playthrough I used a mod to make time pass when crafting to battle the "infinite money machine" that are these three skills.  I assume the goal is similar here?

I worry that this isn't actually going to do much at all if you just reduce skill.  Low quality potions made from mountain flowers are still usually enough to get all the money in town, and smithing skill really only impacts weapon/armor improvement, it's unlocking the different items that's usually the problem.  Enchanting is also a huge money maker even if the items you are making are +1 heavy armor amulets.

There is also the issue that some of these might literally do nothing besides occupy a item slot.  It's been a long time since I built a character that alched, smithed AND enchanted.  Maybe some kind of skill detection is in order? The DF always picks your highest level skill?

One though I had is "why is are these rings and amulets?" I don't know for sure that none of these should be jewelry, but there is very little connection between bdsm or dom/sub kink and jewelry.  The only one I can think of is wedding rings and the classic "bad guy marries the princess" trope (aka rated PG sex slave). 

Why not go with some of the other DD items that have little to no logical bondage value?  Things like DD gloves (which have beautiful in game models) don't really have any logical bondage value.  In real life they wouldn't get in the way of much of anything, even locked on they are purely just enforced decoration, that is only humiliating due to the locks.  But MAGIC gloves that control your hands do feel pretty devious, and they also logically explain a smithing debuff. Maybe these magic gloves expand to do other things and become their own deal path?

I pipe dream idea I always had for a devious mod was a mod was a cursed item mod where mundane generic skyrim items would changed into humiliating sexualized versions of themselves. 

"The brave amazonian warrior stares down the mighty dragon, her mighty blade True-Heart held forth! It's grip a hard shaft and it's pommel shaped to a pleasing head! It's cross guard a shining golden filigree of two beautiful women, their legs entwined as scissors and their heads thrown back in passion! It's blade humming with magical power that sends tingling vibrations down into her hand."

Maybe something like this could work for impaired smithing.

-Smithing deal: the items you craft will turn out as sexualized parodies of themselves that have no value to merchants. Or maybe just random devices?

-Alchemy deal: The chemicals swirl together into a plastic sludge that foams and expands into a rubbery tendril (dildo).  Or maybe your just start creating potions with side affects? increasing arousal? body modification?

These seem WAY harder to implement than just 'an item that reduces smithing skill' maybe that is the correct answer after all.  But I think a little bit more lore than rings amulets would really help sell the deal.  Maybe the DF insists on a special recipe book that doesn't occupy an item slot but still impairs crafting, that way there is a little more connection between the cursed item and the effect.  Maybe the enchantment impairment is paired with some religious significance or something? 

At the very least I think you should go with gloves.  Such a great DD model needs some mechanical support so badly.

10 hours ago, Anunya said:

One minor request/ suggestion - you mention that for the the Hood deal for Tier 3 Rubber Pet Deal you "must beg to be able to eat/drink." That's fantastic - is it possible to add that functionality to any DFC deal based gag?

Maybe... But the current idea is that if gagged, you can hide from the follower, remove the gag and eat.

And if you don't have keys ... how is the follower going to remove the gag for you?

In the Pet Deal, the hood isn't locked, it's only "required" and not wearing it is punished via debt.

It's immersive, but implies key possession. I don't think the follower should necessarily be feeding you unless you're actually enslaved (and they don't do it then either, but they should).

57 minutes ago, Darkwing241 said:

I worry that this isn't actually going to do much at all if you just reduce skill.  Low quality potions made from mountain flowers are still usually enough to get all the money in town, and smithing skill really only impacts weapon/armor improvement, it's unlocking the different items that's usually the problem.  Enchanting is also a huge money maker even if the items you are making are +1 heavy armor amulets.

If your skill is zero, you can't use the table at all.

However, the intent is to annoyingly block the slot rather than for the penalty to be the most annoying part.

For (early game) low skill characters, it might tend to stop them from using, and thus raising, the skill due to it being too much bother.

But for those that want a stronger result, you could easily edit the effect to remove 100 skill, effectively stopping you from using it at all.

That might be a bit much.

Players do need some ways to make money though. I've played games where even flower picking was a scary adventure, and I could easily die to a skeever. It's not something you want to have go on too long. SLS can demand a lot of money, and without the ability to even leave town to pick flowers, what will you do? You can whore, pick pockets, beg or starve.

57 minutes ago, Darkwing241 said:

One though I had is "why is are these rings and amulets?"

The answer is simply that they conflict with no other DF deal, and they're useful slots that DF can spoil for you.

The lack of conflicts, including with DD, it the motivator for using those items.

There's already a glove deal (two really), so changing that doesn't add more deals to the pool.

Sexy items requires somebody to make a bunch of art. Seems like a mod in itself - a bikini armor for weapons.

I see you have a milking deal in the roadmap, which I assume would tie into the Milk Mod Economy mod.  If you are going to link to MME in the future, I have  a request/suggestion:  it would be really fun if your devious follower who is also an MME Milk Maid penalized you for failing to milk her when she needed it.  That is, she would add debt if you allowed her to go too long without milking.

Thanks for the great mod and for considering this suggestion.

Is there a plan to integrate elements from pet project into the Spouse tree?

On 1/28/2021 at 8:01 AM, Baltasarr80 said:

Is there a plan to integrate elements from pet project into the Spouse tree?

The simple answer is YES. That is the main intent of the Spouse modifications.

But...

1) You won't need Pet Project at all to use those features.

2) I can't change every dialog to not mention debt, it's just too pervasive in the mod.

3) It will definitely be aware of chastity belts from PP and not offer deals that conflict, or let the PP belt stand in for deals that use a belt.

I've struggled for a long time with how to integrate Pet Project into DF, as I used them together a lot, but found there were always some issues that needed a workaround.

I think the idea of rewriting the way debt gets paid, or how the follower speaks in a broad sense is too difficult/time consuming.

DF has too much dialog that has been badly planned to do that sort of work and have it maintainable.

It never adopted clean partitioning of dialogs into well-defined modules, and it's just not going to happen now.

The systemic flaws of the DF code-base are deep. Skyrim is hard to manage at scale, but DF made no use of any of the tools for doing that. It puts far too much cut+paste duplicated code into fragments. It smooshes dialog into quests at random. It has empty quests that do nothing. Quests that are overfull. Quests with too many scripts or none. Dialogs with too many conditions. And so on...

It all kind of hangs together, but it's total spaghetti. It's hard to maintain, slow to work on, and performance bounded. You can't just add tons of dialog variations to it, there's no way to manage them efficiently. They'd be impossible to manage in the CK, and likely sluggish in game too.

For me, I think the future for DF is to replace the slavery with an external mod that's easier to work on.

It might be possible to link up to Pet Project there too, but the simple answer is that the spouse changes are designed to work with PP, but will also work fine without it.

On the topic of "big dialog overhauls" for DF...

I'm unhappy with how DF dialog fits into Sexlab Survival, Troubles of Heroine, and Pet Project.

All are popular mods right now.

The first two require a follower "tone" that is macho, abusive, and coarse.

It doesn't make sense to see dialog like, "Where are your pretty piercings pet? I'm afraid I'm going to have to add some debt."

... when the tone of SLS or ToH is more like, "Stupid slut, where are your tit piercings? Lose them again and I'll flay you raw."

... and PP should be more like, "Oh dear, such a pity you lost your piercings. It will cost a pretty penny to replace such fine ornaments."

There's really no way to put those into the mod in a dynamic way. Too many dialogs, and too painful to maintain going forward.

Possibly, I might do a "translation" for each style that means you can install an alternate ESP that only has the variant dialogs.

That's the only way I could see supporting PP with immersive dialog, and the same with those "sexist" mods.

40 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

The first two require a follower "tone" that is macho, abusive, and coarse.

It doesn't make sense to see dialog like, "Where are your pretty piercings pet? I'm afraid I'm going to have to add some debt."

... when the tone of SLS or ToH is more like, "Stupid slut, where are your tit piercings? Lose them again and I'll flay you raw."

... and PP should be more like, "Oh dear, such a pity you lost your piercings. It will cost a pretty penny to replace such fine ornaments."

I'm honestly not a fan of the SLS/slaverun setting, humiliation/degradation and voyeur kinks don't make a lot of sense in those kinds of world.

"Oh no my follower tricked me into wearing a bikini in the jarls palace... just like every other girl in all of Skyrim, at all times... by law... and cultural norms..."  A bikini at the beach is not humiliating.  DF does a much better job at making the player feel "special."

I guess I can't complain since these features would be optional, I just don't understand the appeal of playing a DF game at the same time as some of these other mods.  What's the point of trickery in these worlds? 

21 minutes ago, Darkwing241 said:

What's the point of trickery in these worlds?

SLS specifically has a lot of different options you can enable/disable, so you don't have to enable every guard constantly insulting you, stealing your things, or locking you in devices.

But DF can work in a lot of settings, including one where there's a lot of misogyny/disparity. I wish I could have those different tones, with the same basic underlying behaviors.

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

SLS specifically has a lot of different options you can enable/disable, so you don't have to enable every guard constantly insulting you, stealing your things, or locking you in devices.

That's actually how I use it most of the time.  I do enjoy SLS on full blast, but it's kind of an upwards spiral of acquiring licenses and stuff, that is a bit the opposite of DF's downward spiral.

The upward path in SLS is countered by downward paths in SLS and DF.

SLS has cum and sex addiction, corruption, etc.

DF has deals that destroy your willpower and leave you struggling to avoid more deals, until you can't make money at all and end up enslaved - at which point you can make money, albeit slowly, but your costs are reduced (if you are obedient) and you don't have to take any more deals.

Wow, have to say, even with what you supposedly had to drop ideas for, this current roadmap is still ambitious and offers a lot in terms of content and support alongside other mods. I dare say if you manage to bring the goals here to fruition, Devious Followers - Continued, (leaning on SLTR) could very well become the BDSM/slavery mod for Skyrim.

any plans to add male support/femdom options? it works with males but it is clear that mod is intended for female player

On 3/1/2021 at 5:55 AM, leonardo4444 said:

any plans to add male support/femdom options? it works with males but it is clear that mod is intended for female player

From time to time I do add more dialog variations specific to males.

I might do a bit more when I start adding follower personality-specific variants here and there.

In that case, certain follower archetypes will treat males according to their own mindset. I'm thinking to have a little variation for whether they feel the PC is a:

• lowly worm (follower is a sadist)
• sissy (follower is default/sexy)
• useful drudge in need of slave training (follower is a slaver)
• dim-witted but convenient tool (follower is a profiteer)
• criminal in need of reform (follower is moral)
• victim to be turned into a mindless sex-doll (nightmare)

But this is just a thought bubble, it will depend on what dialog comes up to be written and how much time I can spend on it.

Something similar will exist for a female PC of course:

• useless pain slut (follower is a sadist)
• sex addicted slut (follower is default/sexy)
• useful drudge in need of slave training (follower is a slaver)
• dim-witted but convenient tool (follower is a profiteer)
• criminal in need of reform (follower is moral)
• victim to be turned into a mindless sex-doll (nightmare)

I'm open to suggestions though. What sort of femdom were you expecting?

There's also the issue of male PC and male follower. It's a minority audience, so I don't know what could be done to support them.

I just try to make the follower dialog work OK for males if I can.

This seems amazing! I cant wait for the house changes! Keep up the good work mate!

Any events or deals for followers who are married or want to get married?

Some basic thoughts

Maybe harsher deals if you get married after enslavement.

If you are not enslaved and get married, your follower can offer enslavement.

Special quests or quest items to prove you want to be married to your devious follower.

I like the mod but I don't like the follower gets board part of it. The follower enjoys enslaving the dragonborn. Because he is powerful. So why would she sell the dragonborn into slavery in simple slavery? I would add a box to check in the MCM that would enable or un-enable the parts where she sells the player, or whores the dragonborn out. And controlling the dragonborns gold.

The follower wants to own the dragonborn because he is powerful and rich.

The dragonborn should have to pay for, Things the followers want, such as royal wardrobe. DD devices. Homes, sex from all the followers, their training, I like the idea where the follower forces the dragonborn into getting married to the lead follower, so the idea of the follower controlling the money would need to be changed. I would like to see where the dragonborn is used by all the followers then tied up and punished, then used again. I like the idea of the wife follower - after being forced into getting married, there are no more deals. The wife follower owns the dragonborn after the wedding day, and makes the dragonborn where dresses (gowns maid outfit) and DD devices including clamps, the dragonborn anyway the follower wants in player homes.

If the follower can equip DD devices from the players inventory, (from the game) why not wardrobe (dresses to)?

I also like the idea of the followers tie up the dragonborn at the player home and force the dragonborn to watch the followers have sex without him or her. I also like the idea of the followers chaining the dragonborn to a wall in the basement or putting the dragonborn in a cage for bondage time, for a length of time.

There are basement dungen mods that might work well with adding the bondage furnisher to the mod.

Best.

The marriage and household stuff sounds most appealing to me. I'd also love some kind of feature where the NPC actually seems to use the massive sums the PC pays them on things like better weapons and armor, a horse (especially good if the player doesn't get to ride!), houses (so houses would belong to them and not the player), prostitutes, drinks at inns, et cetera.

On 5/26/2021 at 11:47 PM, YellowBeard007 said:

I like the mod but I don't like the follower gets board part of it. The follower enjoys enslaving the dragonborn. Because he is powerful. So why would she sell the dragonborn into slavery in simple slavery? I would add a box to check in the MCM that would enable or un-enable the parts where she sells the player, or whores the dragonborn out. And controlling the dragonborns gold.

It sounds like the idea here is a desire for an option where the follower really wants to own the DB and will not sell them; is still keen to own them, to enslave them, to whore them out and control their gold, but not to sell them or otherwise dispose of them. I think that's the intent. The original post is a little unclear, may be asking to disable whoring and gold control... Well, gold control has its own toggle, so that's already covered. The whore deal also can be disabled, but whoring while enslaved cannot currently.

I really like the idea of the spouse, housecarl, and familiarity content. I also the idea of the follower seeming to spend the money, although I have no idea how that could be implemented, I have RP'd it myself.  

Hopefully Helpful Suggestions

Spouse Content

Housecarl

Familiar Followers

House

"I just try to make the follower dialog work OK for males if I can."

Thanks

I know the mod is dormant and all, but I'm going to post an idea mentioned elsewhere here too: