Corrupted Saves

*Kimy* · March 14, 2016

Simplifying MCMs and moving some settings to inis or jsons, storing some data in jcontainers instead of properties, that will probably help.

As I tried to point out earlier, this would mean a substantial rewrite of the functionality in question. Unfortunately it's also counterintuitive to established modding practices. All the time we were creating mods under the "Ini files = bad, MCM = good" paradigm. MCM is much more user friendly, so that's what users preferred. Funnily enough my mod can write the entire MCM configuration to json already, but I don't think I could ask the average user to edit the JSon instead of playing with self-explaining MCM toggles. It's just not practical.

In all honestly I doubt that modding practices will change at all with the new info in mind. It's simply too late for that and some of the measures would mean a massive loss of convenience anyway, people are not prepared for.

Trying to hack the EXE via SKSE might be the more promising approach tbh. If it can be done without breaking stuff. I have no clue.

Centrophy · March 14, 2016

Can you provide a link to that thread please. I found a thread on the step forum started by darklynx but can't find the skse thread.

http://forum.step-project.com/topic/9683-i-found-a-new-bug-or-maybe-is-a-not-solvable-old-one-in-the-save-files/

He posted in January, seems he figured it out before us.

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1568922-wipz-skyrim-script-extender-skse/

Post #19.

Still no responses to that one.

*Earen* · March 15, 2016

I believe that while reducing amount of scripts, properties is a good way, no one will waste lifetime on that. Patching TESV binary is better option imho. One caveat possible - the strings stored in large section (array) and it seems that save file format uses string index (16-bit value) everywhere to reference the strings. 'Everywhere' is property names, values of strings properties, string arrays and etc. That would mean that to patch binary need to change not just two locations (the ones that read and write string counter), but in plenty of places. That would mean change format of every structure which references a string.

Btw one of the ways to reduce amount of property name strings is write a tool which will rename properties into something meaningless, highly reusable. It had to be able to update ESP property names too

[Edit]

True. Save file format use uint16 everywhere to reference strings. Just opened http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes5Mod:Save_File_Format/Papyrus and saw that uint16 referenced 54 times, most of them are string references

[Edit]

I didn't say that it's impossible, but it may turn out that 16-bit variable might be something fundamental that is used across Papyrus VM

chipstick · March 15, 2016

I had posted a thread linking back to this in the skyrim general forum just to increase awareness of this issue, but it took iroha and malile's posts to remind me that I didn't even post here just to say thank you to everyone for raising and isolating the issue. So...

Thank you. To markdf, vyper00 and everyone who's contributed to this. I appreciate it greatly.

ı cant seem to find ur post on bethforums could u provide link plz and thanks for making others aware of this issue everyone we need to make this issue reach the devs of skyrim and maybe reach skyrim youtubers to make it visible more what do you guyz think?

I didn't post it to the bethforums, just to the skyrim general discussion section here on loverslab - its near the bottom of the front page atm. Didn't think that the issue would get sufficient visibility here (and probably not on the general discussion forum here either, so probably didn't do too much good unfortunately).

*Monoman1* · March 15, 2016

I believe that while reducing amount of scripts, properties is a good way, no one will waste lifetime on that. Patching TESV binary is better option imho. One caveat possible - the strings stored in large section (array) and it seems that save file format uses string index (16-bit value) everywhere to reference the strings. 'Everywhere' is property names, values of strings properties, string arrays and etc. That would mean that to patch binary need to change not just two locations (the ones that read and write string counter), but in plenty of places. That would mean change format of every structure which references a string.

Btw one of the ways to reduce amount of property name strings is write a tool which will rename properties into something meaningless, highly reusable. It had to be able to update ESP property names too

[Edit]

True. Save file format use uint16 everywhere to reference strings. Just opened http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes5Mod:Save_File_Format/Papyrus and saw that uint16 referenced 54 times, most of them are string references

[Edit]

I didn't say that it's impossible, but it may turn out that 16-bit variable might be something fundamental that is used across Papyrus VM

I'm no expert but I don't think all 16 bit fields would need to be changed. There are some 8 bit fields in there which look appropriate. Like array type, it's unlikely there'll ever be more than 256 types of arrays. Hell, save file version is 16 bit. But it's very unclear what most of the fields actually do on the uespwiki page, 16 bits for the rest of them might be no problem at all. Patching the binary is of course the silver bullet we need here but that takes talented people with very specific skills and interest in the subject matter. I fear that until one of these people experience this corruption themselves there will be little progress on that

Another suggestion: How difficult would it be to migrate from using strings to arrays for animation declarations?

eg:

AnimationX[0] = stage 1

AnimationX[1] = stage 2

AnimationX[2] = stage 3

.

etc

Would this result in one string per animation (n) instead of n * number of stages?

Of course I'm not an animator so it's easy for me to say this but it looks like a quick saving of strings to me but I don't know what work would be involved.

I have 6800 arrays in a heavy save but array count is a 32 bit integer so it looks underutilized.

Hi Beth, 1988 called, they want the Sega genesis you used in the save file back

*Earen* · March 15, 2016

I believe that while reducing amount of scripts, properties is a good way, no one will waste lifetime on that. Patching TESV binary is better option imho. One caveat possible - the strings stored in large section (array) and it seems that save file format uses string index (16-bit value) everywhere to reference the strings. 'Everywhere' is property names, values of strings properties, string arrays and etc. That would mean that to patch binary need to change not just two locations (the ones that read and write string counter), but in plenty of places. That would mean change format of every structure which references a string.

Btw one of the ways to reduce amount of property name strings is write a tool which will rename properties into something meaningless, highly reusable. It had to be able to update ESP property names too

[Edit]

True. Save file format use uint16 everywhere to reference strings. Just opened http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes5Mod:Save_File_Format/Papyrus and saw that uint16 referenced 54 times, most of them are string references

[Edit]

I didn't say that it's impossible, but it may turn out that 16-bit variable might be something fundamental that is used across Papyrus VM

I'm no expert but I don't think all 16 bit fields would need to be changed. There are some 8 bit fields in there which look appropriate. Like array type, it's unlikely there'll ever be more than 256 types of arrays. Hell, save file version is 16 bit. But it's very unclear what most of the fields actually do on the uespwiki page, 16 bits for the rest of them might be no problem at all. Patching the binary is of course the silver bullet we need here but that takes talented people with very specific skills and interest in the subject matter. I fear that until one of these people experience this corruption themselves there will be little progress on that

Another suggestion: How difficult would it be to migrate from using strings to arrays for animation declarations?

eg:

AnimationX[0] = stage 1

AnimationX[1] = stage 2

AnimationX[2] = stage 3

.

.

etc

Would this result in one string per animation (n) instead of n * number of stages?

Of course I'm not an animator so it's easy for me to say this but it looks like a quick saving of strings to me but I don't know what work would be involved.

I have 6800 arrays in a heavy save but array count is a 32 bit integer so it looks underutilized.

Hi Beth, 1988 called, they want the Sega genesis you used in the save file back

> I fear that until one of these people experience this corruption themselves there will be little progress on that

Hehe, we need to enforce corruption on their saves somehow.

Eh, I don't know. Moving strings into Papyrus arrays won't reduce overall amount of strings, even if Papyrus' array element length is under-utilized. Because Pap. array references a string located in global, per-save array (not Papyrus array)

Ofc. this can be solved by storing data not-in-papyrus, using JC or PU, but from what I saw average modder will likely create monster script containing 10K lines of code, rather than will ever look at special tools.

Nepro · March 15, 2016

I want to thank whoever posted here about resting animation registry. This really fixed for me non-loadable saves which would crash Skyrim to desktop.

After enabling new mod or animations in MCM by simply resting animation registry in SexLab MCM helps make saves stable and being able to load them.

My load order is below just for your reference.

Active Mod Files:

00  Skyrim.esm
01  Update.esm
02  Dawnguard.esm
03  HearthFires.esm
04  Dragonborn.esm
05  Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp  [Version 3.0.2b]
06  ApachiiHairFemales.esm
07  ApachiiHair.esm
08  BeeingFemale.esm  [Version 2.7]
09  SexLab.esm  [Version 1.61]
0A  SexLabAroused.esm  [Version 2.6]
0B  Devious Devices - Assets.esm  [Version 2.8.3]
0C  Campfire.esm
0D  ZaZAnimationPack.esm
0E  Devious Devices - Integration.esm
0F  CompanionArissa.esm
10  notice board.esp
11  daymoyl.esm
12  Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
13  MagicDuelReborn.esm
14  ReadBooksAloud.esm
15  Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
16  CreatureFramework.esm  [Version 1.0.0]
17  Master of Disguise - Legendary.esm
18  BDHoodieSchlong.esp
19  TouringCarriages.esp
1A  Cutting Room Floor.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
1B  FISS.esp
1C  UIExtensions.esp
1D  AddItemMenu.esp
1E  ArgonianGags.esp  [Version 1.2]
1F  RaceMenu.esp
20  RaceMenuPlugin.esp
21  RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
22  12FemaleBrows.esp
23  BeeingFemaleBasicAddOn.esp
24  College of Winterhold Entry Requirements.esp
25  VioLens.esp  [Version 2.11]
26  CombatDramaOverhaul.esp
27  SimplyKnock.esp
28  Skyrim_Strap_Ons.esp
29  SexLabDefeat.esp
2A  Crime Overhaul.esp
2B  Devious Devices For Him.esp
2C  FNIS.esp
2D  FollowersPickEquipment.esp
2E  Get Out Of My Way.esp
2F  HeartBreaker.esp  [Version 3.3]
30  JZBai_Hidespots.esp
++  dD-Increase Fall Damage.esp
31  Lock Overhaul.esp
32  LockDoorsWithKeys.esp
33  LootandDegradation.esp
++  PrisonerRagsForFemales.esp
34  PumpingIron.esp
++  Proper Aiming.esp
35  SkyUI.esp
36  SkyTweak.esp
37  SLAnimLoader.esp
38  SLALAnimObj.esp
39  SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp
3A  SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp
3B  Supreme Fog.esp
3C  suspiciouscityguards.esp
3D  SexLab TDF Aggressive Prostitution.esp
3E  UnderPants.esp
3F  TKDodge.esp
40  JZBai_ThrowingWpnsLite.esp
41  Dr_ItemBones.esp
42  Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
43  Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
44  Daedric Dawnbreaker.esp
45  HireServants.esp
46  3DNPC.esp  [Version 3.18]
47  Tes Arena - Skyrim Frontier Fortress.esp
48  Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
49  Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp
4A  EstrusChaurus.esp
4B  EstrusSpider.esp
4C  WetandCold.esp
4D  WetandCold - Ashes.esp
4E  ReadBooksAloud - Skyrim + 3 DLC's.esp
4F  WARZONES - Civil Unrest.esp
50  WARZONES - DLC - Assault Attack.esp
51  Rebirth Monster.esp
52  Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp  [Version v6.5.2b]
53  Helgen Reborn.esp  [Version 105.3]
54  rorikstead_merchant.esp
55  Civil War Overhaul.esp
56  HDT Havok Object.esp
57  Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp  [Version v6.5.2a]
58  Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
59  UltimateCombat.esp
5A  Mortal Enemies.esp
5B  Mortal Enemies - SIC.esp  [Version v6.5.2a]
5C  Mortal Enemies - SIC DLC2.esp  [Version v6.5.2a]
5D  XPMSE.esp
5E  dd-Body Physics Merged.esp
5F  Dragon Combat Overhaul.esp
60  LocalizedGuildJobs.esp
61  Thieves Guild Requirements.esp
62  ThievesGuildReq_LocalizedGuildJobs_Patch.esp
63  NPS_Female.esp
64  NPS_Female_HearthFires.esp
65  Disparity.esp  [Version 2.1]
66  DeadlyMutilation.esp
67  FireAndIceOverhaul.esp
68  FGT.esp
69  AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
6A  MultiMarriage_JAMCE.esp
6B  Immersive Weapons.esp
6C  WarmongerArmory_Vanilla.esp
6D  WarmongerArmory_DLC.esp
6E  WarmongerArmory_LeveledList.esp
6F  CommonClothes.esp  [Version 98]
70  One With Nature - DG+DB.esp
71  Inconsequential NPCs.esp
72  The Honored Dead.esp
73  notice board - dragonborn patch.esp
74  sanguinesDebauchery.esp
75  WhitBBM.esp  [Version 1.6.]
76  SkyrimSewers.esp  [Version 4.11]
77  SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp
78  SimpleSlavery.esp
79  Bring Out Your Dead - Legendary Edition.esp  [Version 3.0]
7A  Dynamic Dialogue Followers.esp
7B  Skooming Skyrim by BigBizkit.esp
7C  CerwidenCompanion.esp
7D  GriptzionTeleportMenuSpell.esp
7E  KhalSpellmakingMod.esp
7F  Dagon's Legions - Dremora Overhaul.esp
80  SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp
81  Wynter.esp
82  Frostfall.esp
83  Storefront.esp  [Version 1.0.7]
84  Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
85  CUYC_CleanUpYourCorpses.esp
86  SBF All In One + DLC.esp
87  Provincial Courier Service.esp  [Version 1.2.5]
88  TimingIsEverything.esp
89  SexLab_Dialogues.esp
8A  Horsemen.esp
8B  Prison.esp
8C  daymoyl_DawnguardAddon.esp
8D  Replace Your Criminal Face.esp  [Version 1.5]
8E  SexLab Romance.esp
8F  SLSW Addicted.esp
90  DeadlyDragons.esp
91  WeaponsArmorFixes_ImmersiveWeapons_Patch.esp
92  TrueDeathBasic.esp
93  NPO Module - Crossbows.esp
94  Faction Crossbows.esp  [Version 1.2.1WAFR]
95  Destructible_bottles.esp
96  Brigandage.esp  [Version 4]
97  OMageCommonRobesV2.esp
98  WARZONES - DLC - Assault Attack + Helgen Reborn - Compatibility.esp
99  KhajiitHearthfire.esp
9A  SexLabWerewolves.esp
9B  SexLabWerewolvesMB.esp
9C  WerewolfMastery.esp
9D  MF_RadiantProstitution.esp
9E  umana.esp
9F  mslVampiricThirst.esp
A0  BloodthirstVampireFeeding.esp
A1  Cyrodillic Artifacts.esp
A2  The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp  [Version 1.2.9]
A3  Vampirelordroyal.esp
A4  Frontier Fortress Notice Boards.esp
A5  Gildergreen Regrown.esp  [Version 1.2.6]
A6  notice board - open cities patch.esp
A7  Equipping Overhaul.esp
A8  vMYC_MeetYourCharacters.esp
A9  RosaFollower.esp
AA  pchs_loansharks.esp
AB  iHUD.esp
AC  Horsemen Combat Enhancement.esp
AD  SlaveTats.esp
AE  MyLydia.esp
AF  Moniko.esp
B0  Aeril.esp
B1  amk Border Lace Lingerie.esp
B2  Devious Deviants.esp
B3  Worlds Dawn.esp
B4  SDpatch - frostfall.esp
B5  ViewableFactionRanksBothDLC.esp
B6  HDT Piercingsets.esp
B7  Hikari.esp
++  moveitLWT.esp
B8  RavenBeakPrisonAddon.esp
B9  Royal Bloodline & Vampiric Thirst Patch.esp
BA  Rebirth Monster - SIC Patch.esp
BB  Sycos Beautiful NPC - Aela The Huntress.esp
BC  Guard's don't change outfits.esp
++  Faction Crossbows NPO CCOR LL Patch.esp  [Version 1.2.1WAFR]
BD  Extended UI.esp  [Version 1.2.0d]
BE  Predator Vision.esp
BF  SOS - Pubic Hair for Females Addon.esp
C0  SOS Female Schlongifier (No Schlong Addon by Erundil).esp
C1  Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp
C2  SPTDiverseGuardsSkyrim.esp  [Version 4.9b]
C3  Populated Skyrim Prisons Cells.esp
C4  Chesko_Step418_SN.esp
C5  LoreContinuityFixes_1.0.esp
C6  Sleeved Guards.esp
C7  MLU.esp
C8  Morrowlootification.esp
C9  MLA_ArgonianArmoury.esp
CA  MLA_BosmerArmoury.esp
CB  MLA_DunmerArmoury.esp
CC  MLA_RedguardArmoury.esp
CD  MLA_KhajitArmoury.esp
CE  Cultural Diversity Merger.esp
CF  3DNPC - Cultural Diversity Merged Patch.esp
D0  MLU - IA + CWO.esp
D1  MLU - Heart Breaker.esp
D2  MLU - Ordinator.esp
D3  Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp
D4  MLU - No Combat Boundaries.esp
D5  Sneak Tools.esp
D6  Sneak Tools Vanilla Hoods.esp
D7  Sneak Tools Vanilla Masks.esp
D8  CCO_SIC_Patch.esp
D9  Open Cities Skyrim.esp  [Version 2.0.0]
DA  Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp  [Version 3.1.2]
DB  Master of Disguise Patches + NARC.esp
DC  OCS - 3DNPC.esp
DD  OCS - Inconsequential NPCs Patch.esp
DE  KhajiitSpeak Merge.esp
DF  TES5 Edit Patch.esp
++  KhajiitEarShow.esp
E0  Scarcity - Less Loot Mod.esp
++  Scarcity - 10x Loot Rarity.esp
E1  Bashed Patch, 0.esp
E2  MorrowlootifiedPatch.esp
E3  TrueStorms.esp
E4  mintylightningmod.esp
E5  RealisticWaterTwo.esp
E6  RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp
E7  EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
E8  ELFX - Exteriors.esp
E9  ELFXEnhancer.esp
EA  OCS + Skyrim Sewers.esp  [Version 1.0.7]
EB  Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Texture 1.esp
EC  warburg's 3d paper world map - dawnguard.esp
ED  Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Dragonborn.esp

*Monoman1* · March 15, 2016

I want to thank whoever posted here about resting animation registry. This really fixed for me non-loadable saves which would crash Skyrim to desktop.

After enabling new mod or animations in MCM by simply resting animation registry in SexLab MCM helps make saves stable and being able to load them.

My load order is below just for your reference.

Active Mod Files:

00  Skyrim.esm
01  Update.esm
02  Dawnguard.esm
03  HearthFires.esm
04  Dragonborn.esm
05  Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp  [Version 3.0.2b]
06  ApachiiHairFemales.esm
07  ApachiiHair.esm
08  BeeingFemale.esm  [Version 2.7]
09  SexLab.esm  [Version 1.61]
0A  SexLabAroused.esm  [Version 2.6]
0B  Devious Devices - Assets.esm  [Version 2.8.3]
0C  Campfire.esm
0D  ZaZAnimationPack.esm
0E  Devious Devices - Integration.esm
0F  CompanionArissa.esm
10  notice board.esp
11  daymoyl.esm
12  Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
13  MagicDuelReborn.esm
14  ReadBooksAloud.esm
15  Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
16  CreatureFramework.esm  [Version 1.0.0]
17  Master of Disguise - Legendary.esm
18  BDHoodieSchlong.esp
19  TouringCarriages.esp
1A  Cutting Room Floor.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
1B  FISS.esp
1C  UIExtensions.esp
1D  AddItemMenu.esp
1E  ArgonianGags.esp  [Version 1.2]
1F  RaceMenu.esp
20  RaceMenuPlugin.esp
21  RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
22  12FemaleBrows.esp
23  BeeingFemaleBasicAddOn.esp
24  College of Winterhold Entry Requirements.esp
25  VioLens.esp  [Version 2.11]
26  CombatDramaOverhaul.esp
27  SimplyKnock.esp
28  Skyrim_Strap_Ons.esp
29  SexLabDefeat.esp
2A  Crime Overhaul.esp
2B  Devious Devices For Him.esp
2C  FNIS.esp
2D  FollowersPickEquipment.esp
2E  Get Out Of My Way.esp
2F  HeartBreaker.esp  [Version 3.3]
30  JZBai_Hidespots.esp
++  dD-Increase Fall Damage.esp
31  Lock Overhaul.esp
32  LockDoorsWithKeys.esp
33  LootandDegradation.esp
++  PrisonerRagsForFemales.esp
34  PumpingIron.esp
++  Proper Aiming.esp
35  SkyUI.esp
36  SkyTweak.esp
37  SLAnimLoader.esp
38  SLALAnimObj.esp
39  SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp
3A  SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp
3B  Supreme Fog.esp
3C  suspiciouscityguards.esp
3D  SexLab TDF Aggressive Prostitution.esp
3E  UnderPants.esp
3F  TKDodge.esp
40  JZBai_ThrowingWpnsLite.esp
41  Dr_ItemBones.esp
42  Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
43  Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
44  Daedric Dawnbreaker.esp
45  HireServants.esp
46  3DNPC.esp  [Version 3.18]
47  Tes Arena - Skyrim Frontier Fortress.esp
48  Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
49  Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp
4A  EstrusChaurus.esp
4B  EstrusSpider.esp
4C  WetandCold.esp
4D  WetandCold - Ashes.esp
4E  ReadBooksAloud - Skyrim + 3 DLC's.esp
4F  WARZONES - Civil Unrest.esp
50  WARZONES - DLC - Assault Attack.esp
51  Rebirth Monster.esp
52  Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp  [Version v6.5.2b]
53  Helgen Reborn.esp  [Version 105.3]
54  rorikstead_merchant.esp
55  Civil War Overhaul.esp
56  HDT Havok Object.esp
57  Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp  [Version v6.5.2a]
58  Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
59  UltimateCombat.esp
5A  Mortal Enemies.esp
5B  Mortal Enemies - SIC.esp  [Version v6.5.2a]
5C  Mortal Enemies - SIC DLC2.esp  [Version v6.5.2a]
5D  XPMSE.esp
5E  dd-Body Physics Merged.esp
5F  Dragon Combat Overhaul.esp
60  LocalizedGuildJobs.esp
61  Thieves Guild Requirements.esp
62  ThievesGuildReq_LocalizedGuildJobs_Patch.esp
63  NPS_Female.esp
64  NPS_Female_HearthFires.esp
65  Disparity.esp  [Version 2.1]
66  DeadlyMutilation.esp
67  FireAndIceOverhaul.esp
68  FGT.esp
69  AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
6A  MultiMarriage_JAMCE.esp
6B  Immersive Weapons.esp
6C  WarmongerArmory_Vanilla.esp
6D  WarmongerArmory_DLC.esp
6E  WarmongerArmory_LeveledList.esp
6F  CommonClothes.esp  [Version 98]
70  One With Nature - DG+DB.esp
71  Inconsequential NPCs.esp
72  The Honored Dead.esp
73  notice board - dragonborn patch.esp
74  sanguinesDebauchery.esp
75  WhitBBM.esp  [Version 1.6.]
76  SkyrimSewers.esp  [Version 4.11]
77  SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp
78  SimpleSlavery.esp
79  Bring Out Your Dead - Legendary Edition.esp  [Version 3.0]
7A  Dynamic Dialogue Followers.esp
7B  Skooming Skyrim by BigBizkit.esp
7C  CerwidenCompanion.esp
7D  GriptzionTeleportMenuSpell.esp
7E  KhalSpellmakingMod.esp
7F  Dagon's Legions - Dremora Overhaul.esp
80  SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp
81  Wynter.esp
82  Frostfall.esp
83  Storefront.esp  [Version 1.0.7]
84  Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
85  CUYC_CleanUpYourCorpses.esp
86  SBF All In One + DLC.esp
87  Provincial Courier Service.esp  [Version 1.2.5]
88  TimingIsEverything.esp
89  SexLab_Dialogues.esp
8A  Horsemen.esp
8B  Prison.esp
8C  daymoyl_DawnguardAddon.esp
8D  Replace Your Criminal Face.esp  [Version 1.5]
8E  SexLab Romance.esp
8F  SLSW Addicted.esp
90  DeadlyDragons.esp
91  WeaponsArmorFixes_ImmersiveWeapons_Patch.esp
92  TrueDeathBasic.esp
93  NPO Module - Crossbows.esp
94  Faction Crossbows.esp  [Version 1.2.1WAFR]
95  Destructible_bottles.esp
96  Brigandage.esp  [Version 4]
97  OMageCommonRobesV2.esp
98  WARZONES - DLC - Assault Attack + Helgen Reborn - Compatibility.esp
99  KhajiitHearthfire.esp
9A  SexLabWerewolves.esp
9B  SexLabWerewolvesMB.esp
9C  WerewolfMastery.esp
9D  MF_RadiantProstitution.esp
9E  umana.esp
9F  mslVampiricThirst.esp
A0  BloodthirstVampireFeeding.esp
A1  Cyrodillic Artifacts.esp
A2  The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp  [Version 1.2.9]
A3  Vampirelordroyal.esp
A4  Frontier Fortress Notice Boards.esp
A5  Gildergreen Regrown.esp  [Version 1.2.6]
A6  notice board - open cities patch.esp
A7  Equipping Overhaul.esp
A8  vMYC_MeetYourCharacters.esp
A9  RosaFollower.esp
AA  pchs_loansharks.esp
AB  iHUD.esp
AC  Horsemen Combat Enhancement.esp
AD  SlaveTats.esp
AE  MyLydia.esp
AF  Moniko.esp
B0  Aeril.esp
B1  amk Border Lace Lingerie.esp
B2  Devious Deviants.esp
B3  Worlds Dawn.esp
B4  SDpatch - frostfall.esp
B5  ViewableFactionRanksBothDLC.esp
B6  HDT Piercingsets.esp
B7  Hikari.esp
++  moveitLWT.esp
B8  RavenBeakPrisonAddon.esp
B9  Royal Bloodline & Vampiric Thirst Patch.esp
BA  Rebirth Monster - SIC Patch.esp
BB  Sycos Beautiful NPC - Aela The Huntress.esp
BC  Guard's don't change outfits.esp
++  Faction Crossbows NPO CCOR LL Patch.esp  [Version 1.2.1WAFR]
BD  Extended UI.esp  [Version 1.2.0d]
BE  Predator Vision.esp
BF  SOS - Pubic Hair for Females Addon.esp
C0  SOS Female Schlongifier (No Schlong Addon by Erundil).esp
C1  Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp
C2  SPTDiverseGuardsSkyrim.esp  [Version 4.9b]
C3  Populated Skyrim Prisons Cells.esp
C4  Chesko_Step418_SN.esp
C5  LoreContinuityFixes_1.0.esp
C6  Sleeved Guards.esp
C7  MLU.esp
C8  Morrowlootification.esp
C9  MLA_ArgonianArmoury.esp
CA  MLA_BosmerArmoury.esp
CB  MLA_DunmerArmoury.esp
CC  MLA_RedguardArmoury.esp
CD  MLA_KhajitArmoury.esp
CE  Cultural Diversity Merger.esp
CF  3DNPC - Cultural Diversity Merged Patch.esp
D0  MLU - IA + CWO.esp
D1  MLU - Heart Breaker.esp
D2  MLU - Ordinator.esp
D3  Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp
D4  MLU - No Combat Boundaries.esp
D5  Sneak Tools.esp
D6  Sneak Tools Vanilla Hoods.esp
D7  Sneak Tools Vanilla Masks.esp
D8  CCO_SIC_Patch.esp
D9  Open Cities Skyrim.esp  [Version 2.0.0]
DA  Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp  [Version 3.1.2]
DB  Master of Disguise Patches + NARC.esp
DC  OCS - 3DNPC.esp
DD  OCS - Inconsequential NPCs Patch.esp
DE  KhajiitSpeak Merge.esp
DF  TES5 Edit Patch.esp
++  KhajiitEarShow.esp
E0  Scarcity - Less Loot Mod.esp
++  Scarcity - 10x Loot Rarity.esp
E1  Bashed Patch, 0.esp
E2  MorrowlootifiedPatch.esp
E3  TrueStorms.esp
E4  mintylightningmod.esp
E5  RealisticWaterTwo.esp
E6  RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp
E7  EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
E8  ELFX - Exteriors.esp
E9  ELFXEnhancer.esp
EA  OCS + Skyrim Sewers.esp  [Version 1.0.7]
EB  Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Texture 1.esp
EC  warburg's 3d paper world map - dawnguard.esp
ED  Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Dragonborn.esp

Did you forgot to re-enable creature animations?

I'm guessing that will send your save over the edge again.

Mofme · March 15, 2016

I think that there is upper 'safe' limit of scripts which can be saved in the save file once this limit is hit - things become corrupted. I've been having the same issues described in this thread. I uninstalled just a few mods like Estrus and Bathing Beauties Luxury Suite and problems with corrupted saves and crashes when the game was loading went away.

Also I don't think the issues are related to a number of SL registered animations.

PS.: Feel free to post comments about unstable mods here: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/59328-the-list-of-problematicunstable-adult-mods/

*Monoman1* · March 15, 2016

I think that there is upper 'safe' limit of scripts which can be saved in the save file once this limit is hit - things become corrupted. I've been having the same issues described in this thread. I uninstalled just a few mods like Estrus and Bathing Beauties Luxury Suite and problems with corrupted saves and crashes when the game was loading went away.

Also I don't think the issues are related to a number of SL registered animations.

PS.: Feel free to post comments about unstable mods here: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/59328-the-list-of-problematicunstable-adult-mods/

Read this thread from post 74 and on. This save corruption has been linked to a condition where strcount exceeds a maximum of 0xFFFF.

We really need to change the original post as it has become confusing for newcomers.

Mofme · March 15, 2016

I think that there is upper 'safe' limit of scripts which can be saved in the save file once this limit is hit - things become corrupted. I've been having the same issues described in this thread. I uninstalled just a few mods like Estrus and Bathing Beauties Luxury Suite and problems with corrupted saves and crashes when the game was loading went away.

Also I don't think the issues are related to a number of SL registered animations.

PS.: Feel free to post comments about unstable mods here: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/59328-the-list-of-problematicunstable-adult-mods/

Read this thread from post 74 and on. This save corruption has been linked to a condition where strcount exceeds a maximum of 0xFFFF.

We really need to change the original post as it has become confusing for newcomers.

I've read them before but I havn't found a particular post stating it's not linked to the number of animations...

*markdf* · March 15, 2016

I've read them before but I havn't found a particular post stating it's not linked to the number of animations...

Every SL animation adds to the string count, around 12 strings per animation. That adds up really fast when you start using SLAL or enabling creature animations.

Iroha · March 16, 2016

I've read them before but I havn't found a particular post stating it's not linked to the number of animations...

Every SL animation adds to the string count, around 12 strings per animation. That adds up really fast when you start using SLAL or enabling creature animations.

So why you still did not update OP? More clarity - less offtop & more useful knowledge for modders and users....

*markdf* · March 16, 2016

Good idea.

gravit · March 16, 2016

Good news for those that want to try and save their savegames, it looks like you can trim down the string count again.

I ran the following and got these script counts:

New Game

56202 without Interesting NPCs

Quit, Activate mod

59514 with Interesting NPCs

Quit, Deactivated mod (in load order only)

57090 Interesting NPCs removed

Quit, Cleaned savegame, loaded ingame, saved again

56435 Cleaned

It's a net loss of 233 script spaces HOWEVER when I first reloaded the savegame a few more mods initialized (should have done this before installing 3DNPC honestly but whoops).

Accounting for this (thanks to the fantastic work of malilie earlier in this thread, we know 3DNPC uses 3203 slots while the difference between steps 1 and 2 when it was added here are 3312, so I'm guessing of those 233 difference 109 are non-3DNPC scripts that were only initialized on the first reload) , the actual loss may be insubstantial.

I don't know how this will affect other mods, or savegames that have been running for longer than a minute or so, but it's worth an attempt if you're attached to your current game.

Edit: Managed to cut 26 hour savegame from 65k to 59k by removing 3DNPC, Campfire, Falskaar and Helgen Reborn, will give it a shake and see if it sticks.

I can also report Immersive Citizens uses 261.

Slaverun Reloaded - 1475 (with Deadly Mutilation / Branding Device soft requirements)

*markdf* · March 16, 2016

I update the original post. If anyone has any particular information that you feel should be there, please let me know! :-)

Centrophy · March 16, 2016

Since we aren't sure if a fix is even doable... I think we should shoot for testing new saves in new setups to see if we can come to an agreement on a maximum number of strings to start with.

I have tested STEP: Extended. In the start in Helgen after following Ralof into the keep, the string count is at 32,030. That seems extremely high for a starting game with just the basic mods that are loaded as part of that. I would imagine it easily rising 10-15k in 20 hours. With a 10k rise it would go up to 42,030. With 15k it goes up to 47,030. I'm unsure if it rises above that but I think that a 15k rise in strings after 20 hours is a fairly decent estimate.

With that in mind I would think that a good starting point for a somewhat stable game is sub 50k strings at start. My main install without any SexLab/adult mods is at 41k strings. With a few SexLab mods like: Mia, Amorous Adventures (which seems to add a string every time a lover is added), DDI, DDX, DDA, Angrim, and Cursed Loot... I'm looking at between 51k and 56k strings. It goes over 65k after an estimated 20 hours reliably.

On to actually fixing the issue;

Has anyone spoken to enbdev/Boris? It seems he is still actively updating ENB for Skyrim. I would think he is just as familiar with the game code as the SKSE devs since I assume both programs work with code injection. Just thinking of opening up some avenues to get this solved instead of letting more people get hit with this stupid issue that should never have existed.

I update the original post. If anyone has any particular information that you feel should be there, please let me know! :-)

"When the numbers of strings exceeds 65535, the game continues to run without issue except that saving the game produces unreadable files. Even Script Scalpel and SaveTool can't load them, they are COMPLETELY recoverable."

I would change recoverable to completely unrecoverable. I would also like to point out that papyrus logs show that the game will show issues until CTD once strcount goes over 65,535 as I noted in post #137. It just may take some time to CTD. In the meantime the errors will keep compounding and you'll end up with a 10mb+ papyrus log. Good job on the updated post though. Hopefully we'll get less folks thinking the problem is related to one of the many other things that go wrong with Skyrim.

*Vader666* · March 16, 2016

When MCM settings and registered animations are the problem, why not storage this data outside of the actual savegame file ?

Like when saving a game, all this data is written into a file, then all MCM´s , animation registry and all of that, gets resetet/set to zero, then the actual savegame gets written.

On load, the savegame gets loaded and after that the "mod save" restores everything.

Until now i always thought the SKSE co-save does exactly that ?

*markdf* · March 16, 2016

I have tested STEP: Extended. In the start in Helgen after following Ralof into the keep, the string count is at 32,030. That seems extremely high for a starting game with just the basic mods that are loaded as part of that. I would imagine it easily rising 10-15k in 20 hours. With a 10k rise it would go up to 42,030. With 15k it goes up to 47,030. I'm unsure if it rises above that but I think that a 15k rise in strings after 20 hours is a fairly decent estimate.

The vanilla game, DLCs, and USLEEP take up 28,000, so STEP Extended is only using 4,000. I made a note about that in the OP.

"When the numbers of strings exceeds 65535, the game continues to run without issue except that saving the game produces unreadable files. Even Script Scalpel and SaveTool can't load them, they are COMPLETELY recoverable."

I would change recoverable to completely unrecoverable. I would also like to point out that papyrus logs show that the game will show issues until CTD once strcount goes over 65,535 as I noted in post #137. It just may take some time to CTD. In the meantime the errors will keep compounding and you'll end up with a 10mb+ papyrus log. Good job on the updated post though. Hopefully we'll get less folks thinking the problem is related to one of the many other things that go wrong with Skyrim.

Thanks for spotting my typo; I added the info about the Papyrus errors.

Centrophy · March 16, 2016

When MCM settings and registered animations are the problem, why not storage this data outside of the actual savegame file ?

Like when saving a game, all this data is written into a file, then all MCM´s , animation registry and all of that, gets resetet/set to zero, then the actual savegame gets written.

On load, the savegame gets loaded and after that the "mod save" restores everything.

Until now i always thought the SKSE co-save does exactly that ?

It's not just MCM's but they are a part of it and they can be string heavy. Helgen Reborn doesn't have an MCM but has over 1,000 strings.

malilie · March 16, 2016

Since we aren't sure if a fix is even doable... I think we should shoot for testing new saves in new setups to see if we can come to an agreement on a maximum number of strings to start with.

I have tested STEP: Extended. In the start in Helgen after following Ralof into the keep, the string count is at 32,030. That seems extremely high for a starting game with just the basic mods that are loaded as part of that. I would imagine it easily rising 10-15k in 20 hours. With a 10k rise it would go up to 42,030. With 15k it goes up to 47,030. I'm unsure if it rises above that but I think that a 15k rise in strings after 20 hours is a fairly decent estimate.

With that in mind I would think that a good starting point for a somewhat stable game is sub 50k strings at start. My main install without any SexLab/adult mods is at 41k strings. With a few SexLab mods like: Mia, Amorous Adventures (which seems to add a string every time a lover is added), DDI, DDX, DDA, Angrim, and Cursed Loot... I'm looking at between 51k and 56k strings. It goes over 65k after an estimated 20 hours reliably.

I think this is a great idea. I've been trying to prune my starting game down to 50-55k while still in the LAL starting cell. Still sitting about 55k with everything activated in the MCM, I'm trying to decide how to trim a bit more.

I made a simple spreadsheet with my string number findings from before(so I could sort by strcount) if anyone thinks that would be useful I'll upload it. So far I'm finding those numbers fairly consistent through testing as I refine my modlist, but there is variance. Don't take any of those numbers as exact, sometimes the variance is as high as +/- 100 strings between saves.

Thanks for all the additional information everyone!

*markdf* · March 17, 2016

I made a simple spreadsheet with my string number findings from before(so I could sort by strcount) if anyone thinks that would be useful I'll upload it. So far I'm finding those numbers fairly consistent through testing as I refine my modlist, but there is variance. Don't take any of those numbers as exact, sometimes the variance is as high as +/- 100 strings between saves.

Thanks for all the additional information everyone!

Maybe not the whole list, but the highlights would be great. Especially mods that use a lot of strings, or that use way less than you expect.

*Monoman1* · March 17, 2016

On a clean start save (only with official DLC) I have around 27k strings.

With all my mods (255+, merged ones etc.) I get for a new start like 55k

100 hours into the save I'm now around 65k, but I also added some mods during that time.

Perhaps keeping it at like 60k will be enough that fluctuation isn't too high... need to test that out.

What is ironic, perhaps: pretty much the only count the .ess file keeps as uint16 is the stringCount, everything else is uint32, like scriptCount, when it should be obvious that there will be much more strings in the save than scripts, if I understand this save format correctly.

Just quoting what vyper said a while back.

55k may not be enough. It likely depends on exactly what mods you're using as well. By that I mean mod A might add 500 strings at the start of a new game and grow by 50 strings. And mod B might start with 50 strings and grow by 500 after 100 hours.

Tbh, I've no interest in testing for 100 hours only to find out you still need to trim more.

I'd rather wait for a fix. However long that might be....

spoonsinger · March 17, 2016

Just pondering like. Does this carry over to FO4? I mean it's obvious that Bethesda/Zenimax managed to dodge a bullet when the Valve/Steam thing went tits up. (i.e. lots of people installing mods which could feck up their saves due to incompetent coding, even if they knew the coding was incompetent in the first place but just put it down to the publishers but not down to modder's who probably know what they are doing in the long term but were allowed to take money for mods based on an unstable system. There are places on this planet were a class action could happen).

So only on a passing interest, (I suspect I don't really have enough time in my life for a modded FO4), if anybody has actually looked at the FO4 save format?

BigOnes69 · March 19, 2016

Would this help? Patches the Papyrus Compiler to only run in 32-bit mode.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65578/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D65578%26preview%3D&pUp=1

and this

http://forum.step-project.com/topic/9015-papyrus-compiler-patch-for-x64-systems-by-doubleyou/

I dont know if mods were compiled using this would it effect the strings?

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