DonQuiWho

I can't argue with the logic involved. And TBH I've almost never ever put slaves to work mining anything - apart from one attempt to use some other mod long ago that never seemed to work anyway 😊 But my load order would throw its hands up in the air, and crash headfirst into a brick wall 🥸, if the mining/creation of ingredients was a hard requirement, especially if it absolutely needed one or more esps than it has now. Maybe esl files, but... DQW.

TAK will undoubtedly have a view on the merits of his family members' survival, or otherwise 😉 DQW

@Thrallmaster FWIW, this is a DOM Slaver Recruited Troll, in case the ref ids are any help

As the Steel Slave Collar of Leashing is about the best way to retrieve newly caught slaves from wilder locations ..... ...... is there any chance that you might replace: Trama Root with Deathbell or maybe even Nightshade? - Both of those are pretty widespread on Skyrim itself and, if gameplay authenticity is something anyone is worried about, it would save repetitive trips to Windhelm just to get to Solstheim to trek around looking for the small natural growth numbers and, also Bleeding Crown with Torchbug Thorax, as in the PAHE original? - Those are 'relatively easy' to find all over 'dry' Skyrim - even if you have to go out at night - whereas Bleeding Crown isn't too common at apothecaries, and larger numbers acquisition normally means repetitive cave diving, which might not be what people playing with DOM want to do It's easy to cheat with the console of course, but that can spoil the game a little I should have suggested this before but, as my tuppenceworth, just trying to make a constructive suggestion If you can see your way to this, fine, but there's no rush DQW

In case it's of any help to others, I found that going from SkyUI 6 back to 5 - to try to fix the parts of RaceMenu that went AWOL on the change ie Presets and detailed Feature Tabs - the reversal was so screwed that not even Disaster Area Starship could Hitchhike its way out of that SuperNova I literally had to restart the affected games from scratch. It's just not worth trying and, if you search for it, there is a fix out there that gets all of the RaceMenu features working properly with 6 DQW

I'd like to contribute a little about that from the perspective of a user, in the hope that it helps, and maybe adds to the understanding of anyone here who knows nothing of the mod(s) being discussed. Also please forgive grandpa for trying to teach other old gits how to suck eggs +++++++++++++ At its simplest, the distinct steps in getting to where we are now were basically as follows 1 - On NEXUS, Layam developed the original 'Paradise Halls' (PAH) mod - NPCs could be enslaved - and sold with a long dead add on - (IIRC DRE) Working in the Slave Trade 2 - Subsequently this was transferred to LoversLab, under the custody of someone whose name escapes me 3 - PAH became PAHExtended (PAHE) and managed by @CliftonJD 4 - Addons to PAH/PAHE were developed by @Musje to let PAHE transport slaves, use Player Homes & Custom Camps, & create additional training & slave trading capability 5 - Other modders created infrastructure facility mods with all mod cons - normally ZAZ based - to also house slaves in custody/training 4 - Diary of Mine (DOM) has been built by @TrollAutokill , basically based on PAHE and custom adaptations of Musje's addons, with patches for other existing infrastructure/gameplay mods egs TDF/SBC +++++++++++++ The basic gameplay is fairly consistent, and configurable by which of the various mods you choose to have in your game Capture / Restrain / Add to a Training Regime with some form of measurable stats to assess progress / with possible subsequent sale to Innkeepers or other NPCs, both good and bad The basic mods in that process are 'Capture' - PAHE; DOM 'Transport' - PAHE Slave Cart; DOM Slave Cart 'Storage/Training Locations' - PAHE Home Sweet Home : DOM version Home Sweet Home; other Infrastructure mods 'Training Regime' - PAHE Base Mod + Home Sweet Home(HSH) ; DOM Base Mod + DOM version Home Sweet Home(HSH) 'Sales' - PAHE AndYouGetASlave (AYGAS) : DOM version AndYouGetASlave (AYGAS) That might appear confusing, but isn't once you get the hang of it ++++++++++++++++++ So in what Universe is anyone wanting to understand the 'Use Case' for DDs? The original PAHE mod was fairly simple to use. Leaving aside some basic Skyrim Engine quirks, you commanded the newly captured slave to wear what you told him or her, applied the ZAZ or DD of your choice and they would wear that until you 'removed' it and took it back from them. You could even sell slaves with specific clothing and restraints and they would continue to wear those after sale, or if still under your command in AYGAS. A female modded Ulfric(a) wandering round Solitude in her finery with DD armbinder, Anal belled plug + vag plug, selling her oral services (the animations chosen still respect the DD filter) could be very funny When we get to DOM, though, it gets more complicated as the mod development has - and I hope TAK sees this as a fair description - concentrated on his and other players interests in slaves' emotional responses and development throughout their training - the range of individual slave training indices, kinks, and - most significantly here - outfit and apparel, pose and behaviour control, etc is now immense. However, the features which are now used in achieving that - including the addition of ZAZ restraints included in some basic mod functions - have tended to result in the player losing control on their choice of restraints as the mod will 'rip off/replace/just ignore' the DDs that they player has commanded the slave to wear. And sometimes a 'disappeared' DD restraint will actually even stay in the slave's inventory, but the visual model will be 'disappeared' as also, seemingly, does its functionality. At the moment, it's a bit of a lottery, as I get variable results with different DD items. Some seem to persist, eg a topless straitjacket, but others are disappeared, eg the Steel Manacle set. It's probably all down to keyword use, and ensuring that DD's applied are not stripped acciidentally, and their functionality is not overridden by DOM's other actions, even where this MIGHT limit what DOM itself does. And credit should go to TAK for actually taking the trouble to ask the question, given that 'slave trading' may not really behis main mod objective at all 👏 This is the Crux of the Matter: the ideal end point should be that a new slave can be equipped by the player with a DD from the player's inventory, which remains on the enslaved NPC, with its DD functionality intact, until the player, NOT the mod, removes it. And when the player decides to sell the enslaved one, eg the sale of a comprehensively carnally trained Carlotta, courtesy of DOM, to Embry, if she is sold wearing an Armbinder and a Gwelda Outfit, Embry should be able to parade Carlotta up and down Riverwood main street, looking both chic and well controlled, to the ultimate annoyance of both Sven and Faendal! 😉 Apologies for length etc Hope that helps DQW EDIT: PS: I forgot to mention that DD's aesthetics also far exceed those of random ZAZ ones. You just need to compare the range of DD Armbinders to that now terribly rudimentary ZAZ thing to see what I mean

@TrollAutokill Right, the good news! Maybe not yet seeing Embry get his end off with Camilla - I'm testing this out on a different game - but I have now had AYGAS sales of both .... Non Unique & Unique ...... Slaves in game, with very efficient, extremely happy Trainers, and also subsequently impressed Private Buyers and Innkeepers Private Sales and House Whores at Ivarstead's Vilemyr Inn have gone well. And Bersi Honey-Hand's concern for the people of Riften has even extended to his having his delightful - well, that's as may be - other half, Drifa, trained by the Troll in the Honeyside Basement to acquire the skillset required to soothe the passions, and concerns, of the customers in the Bee and Barb, albeit under the watchful eye, and scaly hand, of Keerava. Needless to say, the first contented customer was Brynjolf, as might be expected of a pushy (or pushing in?) scoundrel Still a few quirks with DDs and outfits equipped - 8.5.3 seemed to be more inclined to do as told than 8.5.4b - but I possibly haven't sussed out properly yet how their little 'bundles' work. But, overall, great progress. I'd send you some postcard portraits, but they're all kind of busy right now ............ 😉 DQW

Himmersland? Is it really!? For those of a certain age, that's one 'L' of a close thing ..... DQW

Thanks for replying! It's weird. And here's my log from earlier today. DDH fails when the player is equipped with items by what seems - as far as I can tell - a DIN event Interestingly, an approach to a blacksmith WILL remove the items for a fee, which is variable depending on what the restraint is If DIN doesn't do that, then my apologies, as it would then seem to be from another mod, but, on balance at the moment it seems to be DIN generated events/restraints that are causing the issue. I should be happy to be shown to be wrong, and then pointed to another cause! 😊 As stated, attached is the log from today's gameplay, showing the DDH failures, and the events preceding them DQW Papyrus.1 - Copy Possible or probable DIN and DDH Issues .log

@Taki17 EDITED later to provide some additional clarity I'm puzzled about something EDIT which only seems to happen when restraints have been added by actions which seems to be emanating from this mod, and I am wondering if it might be related to that weird 'process the 'first added' follower - and only that one - even if not now present' issue that we discussed a while ago I use the Devious Device Helpers mod to allow followers to unlock restraints, if the player or follower has a restrain etc key. This is something that is useful to prevent having to back right out of dungeons etc when caught up in DD NG devices, albeit with the risk factor of setting limited follower inventory numbers - so that they keys can 'run out' or be 'stolen' so that it is possible to get stuck and either have to back out to find blacksmiths etc or keep looking for keydrops at risk of adding more restraints Normally the mod works fine - it has done so for literally years! But it (DDH) seems unable to find any keys for current followers after restraints have been added by what seems to be a DI event , irrespective of whether or not the player or currently present follower(s) have the required keys in their inventories -incl all of Restraint, Chastity and Piercing Removal keys TBH, as I am writing this, I realised that I probably need to go back and check if this is still true if I exclude follower handling by DI completely - I still am getting on screen messages referring to her even when she is waiting miles away! IIRC, that issue was something you hoped to look at if you updated this mod at some point, so I've mentioned it here as something else to consider should you manage to do that I'll let you know if the 'problem' 'goes away' if I disable follower handling. It would be a pity if that's what it is, as this is much better - and even far safer to use - than some of the other similar mods EDIT: I have now changed the Follower in 'Free Use' handling from 'PASSIVE' to 'NEITHER' but that still doesn't seem to fix the problem. It's possible that it's another mod, but the issue always seems to happen after a Devious Interest Free Use Event FWIW, I've attached the latest log showing a DI Guard intervention and the subsequent Devious Device Helpers hiccough (search for DDH for what it does, or doesn't do) Hope this is useful DQW Papyrus.1.log

Thanks very much Took the liberty of linking to that on TAK's version of AYGAS for his info DQW

From @Frayed In case this helps on the use of DDs

I'm not sure if I properly understand what you are trying to do, but have you tried ...... a) b) Diary of Mine + AYGAS (requires some work in training, but current versions now see sold NPCs being suitably enjoyed by their purchasers ...

Thanks! DQW

Being as thick as usual 🫡, I haven't got a clue what you mean! 🙄 Do you mean the current game's Overwrite of A) \SKSE\Plugins\StorageUtilData\Diary of Mine\Adelaisa\Settings.json needs to be deleted, and then installed again using the 8.5.4 version as a new B) \SKSE\Plugins\StorageUtilData\Diary of Mine\Adelaisa\Settings.json and the MCM settings then all redone to get one's new personal version structures for 8.5.4 C) \SKSE\Plugins\StorageUtilData\Diary of Mine\Adelaisa\Settings.json where 'A' has been removed as the structure is now changed to a new 8.5.4 format 'B'. and 'C' is then one's personal settings, as re- entered on the MCM, which is now structured in accordance with 'B'? I'm sorry for the pedantry 😏 - my friends (all two of them, 1 and 0) say that I think in binary - but having got to save 464 on this game, I really don't want to mess it up 😊 DQW