Skyrim Social Conscience Series - P1 - Julius Cretak - Scholar Speech

[SexDwarf2250]

23 hours ago, Jexsam said:

I hate that I can't tell who's being facetious and who's being genuine in half these posts.

Maybe we're being genuinely facetious.

[wherewulf028]

On 3/22/2018 at 2:03 AM, user9120975435 said:

 

If I remember Nexus forums correctly, can I assume that pretty much everyone who responded negatively to this mod was immediately banned by any of the horde of Nexus' moronic mods?

Correct. I got a Stern warning for saying "Skyrim belongs to the nords" on the mod

[wherewulf028]

On 3/22/2018 at 8:21 AM, HermausMoron said:

It helps if you know how to speak Old Trollish or Shitlordian. It helps even more if you have prior experience with these kind of people. Sadly, Poe's Law has been in overdrive for years, to the point that I find myself questioning my sanity daily.

 

I am dead serious though (oh, how I wish I could be facetious about this) when I say I've seen multiple art media, online platforms, and subcultures parasitized and outright destroyed by this kind of shit. Tumblr, Twitter, science fiction, video gaming, online atheism, Magic: the Gathering (complete with actual pedos organizing events where children are present!), comic books, Youtube, 4chan... In terms of MO, SJW infiltrators typically try to cosy up to mods or admins, often flirting with them until they can use nepotism to achieve moderator status themselves. At that point, said moral busybody proceeds to abuse their power at every turn, banning users for any number of offenses (real or feigned), including a given forum's baseline cultural tenor (e.g. memes and inside jokes), specious claims of harassment or bullying (pure projection), political/ideological differences, defending themselves from being banned for being some sort of bigot, coming to the defense of someone wrongfully banned, and pretty much any sort of opposition to the obvious shenanigans. Once spirited resistance/complaints begin to start in earnest, the SJW mod will run to the mod/admin they've tricked into giving them power, who will in turn either leverage their own power to quash reasonable opposition to abuse or give the SJW more power and privileges, which usually involves giving the SJW mod free reign to change the Terms of Service at any time for any reason. The last part is particularly insidious, in that such power is invariably abused so that the SJW mod/admin can flagrantly break the rules only to make ad hoc changes to said rules whenever someone calls them on it (usually while pretending that the rules have always been this way and hoping no one will notice). At all times, the abusive relationship (or even merely perceived relationship) with the seduced mod/admin is used as a shield from reprisal.

 

By the time people start self-censoring to avoid drawing the wrath of that one mod, it will basically take a miracle to stop the corruption. And once the SJW mod is given admin privileges, they will inevitably start to strip longtime native mods of their own privileges, filling those vacant posts with personal friends from outside the community. These then become the infiltrator's enforcers, the number of bans and permabans shoots through the roof, and doxxing of users by the new mods for wrong-think becomes commonplace. The forums will begin to die as users are permabanned or simply leave in the face of the increasingly censorious atmosphere. In the end, the SJWs (and possibly the seduced mod/admin, if they haven't already been discarded like a used condom after they cease to be of use to the infiltrator) find themselves ruling over an empty forum ostensibly about something they were never passionate about to begin with. They may pervert the forums to leftist ideology or vapid gossip, but chances are the infiltrators will just move on to another forum to repeat the cycle.

 

I wish I was making this up.  One of the main factors behind Gamergate was how pretty much every gaming forum (and quite a few besides) began censoring any and all discussion of the suspicious actions of a certain sociopathic manipulator and members of a gaming press already suspected of pulling shady shit with game developers SIMULTANEOUSLY! The mods responsible were almost invariably newcomers, shit-stirrers, people who seemed to actively hate the native forum populations, and/or reached their positions through personal connections to existing mods. For weeks, the forums and comment sections where the growing scandal could be discussed I could number on one hand.

 

It was during this period that 4chan, the infamous asshole of the Internet, fell as seasoned oldfag mods and admins were removed behind the scenes (I still have the screencaps if you're interested) and replaced with feminist buzzkills. It was later learned this happened at the behest of M00t himself, as he sold the website and community that he built to Gawker (M00t was also dating Nick Denton's niece at the time, and she ironically went on to cheat on him), a company that was directly involved with an even deeper corruption linked to the earlier individual whose name shall remain unspoken. What followed was a great purge, as over half the boards were locked down and countless users were permabanned, prompting an exodus of oldfags to 8chan and other forums. Nowadays, barring /pol/ (more there out of sheer spite, I imagine), the boards are filled with hipsters, normies, and SJWs (last I checked, the new crop of mods is still in place and will ban you for any and every reason) that would previously have been a source of constant mockery. To put this in perspective, one of the first actual rules 4chan implemented when it was just getting started was a ban on furry porn, due to the massive floods that certain boards were subjected to back then. For a while, the posting of furry porn was restricted to Fridays (hence the ancient meme "Furry Friday"), but eventually it was banned entirely and posting it became a bannable offense. These days, furry porn flows freely on 4chan.

I usually find it in bad taste to quote giant texts like this, but this needs to be seen again on page two. The last segment especially. 4chan has absolutely gone to hell in a handbasket due to everything listed there. I didn't ask for these feels.

[user9120975435]

On 22. marec 2018 at 1:21 AM, HermausMoron said:

It was during this period that 4chan, the infamous asshole of the Internet, fell as seasoned oldfag mods and admins were removed behind the scenes (I still have the screencaps if you're interested) and replaced with feminist buzzkills.

 

I'm definitely interested!

 

I was never particularly active on forums other than cars and I'm not American, so while I have naturally heard of Gamersgate this all was pretty much news to me. The extent of planning, malice and hatred that went into their actions leaves me speechless.

 

I agree, this is cancer and must be squashed out IMMEDIATELY before it takes root and destroys this forum as well. I mean, I don't support much of the stuff that goes on here (and I'm limited to Skyrim section so I have on idea what goes on in the rest of it) and a lot makes my stomach turn, but when choosing beween SJW oppression and this, the choice is clear.

[user9120975435]

On 22. marec 2018 at 2:09 AM, HermausMoron said:

- what does this mod actually bring to the Skyrim experience?

- I wouldn't want to soil my hard drive with this filth, both on principle and for fear of malware.

 

True, that's why I wasn't one of the 21 who did download.

 

On 22. marec 2018 at 2:09 AM, HermausMoron said:

- Oh, there's a world of difference between Bethesda and Bioware.

- In contrast, I view Bethesda's marriage mechanics to be more the result of laziness

 

True.

 

When ME came out and especially ME2 (and when I then played Dragon Age Origins for the short time I played before I had enough and just deleted it) I was scratching my head and wondering whether Bioware is just a personal developer aka propaganda department for the LGBT because I don't remember anyone asking for such content in games.

 

On 22. marec 2018 at 2:09 AM, HermausMoron said:

...And now I have the sudden urge to have one of my characters marry a horse just because they can.

 

Rename that character into Caligula and you'll be doing historical re-enactment. ;-)

Especially if you use a pro-Empire character wearing imperial armor (which coincidentally would emphasise imperial insanity yet again).

 

On 22. marec 2018 at 2:09 AM, HermausMoron said:

Hell, I know of a horrible web-comic about a Gary Stu trans kid that slowly turns everything around him (save his poor 'oppressive' dad) some shade of queer and crazy. They did several comics that basically said that there used to be a far wider variety of genders during some bizarre forgotten golden age, and that the genders of male and female used subterfuge to steal power from the other, more enlightened genders. (And yes, the author is a trans-trender and almost certainly insane.)

 

Wow. Just wow.

[SmedleyDButler]

Just going to go out on a limb and suggest that this site may not be the best place to vocally complain about anyone's sexual mores.

[HermausMoron]

11 hours ago, user9120975435 said:

 

I'm definitely interested!

 

I was never particularly active on forums other than cars and I'm not American, so while I have naturally heard of Gamersgate this all was pretty much news to me. The extent of planning, malice and hatred that went into their actions leaves me speechless.

 

I agree, this is cancer and must be squashed out IMMEDIATELY before it takes root and destroys this forum as well. I mean, I don't support much of the stuff that goes on here (and I'm limited to Skyrim section so I have on idea what goes on in the rest of it) and a lot makes my stomach turn, but when choosing beween SJW oppression and this, the choice is clear.

I attached a few of the more salient posts and collages (I could probably find more, but my hard drive is terribly disorganized). Even the betrayal and fall of 4chan was just one front of something much bigger. Gamergate was just the first major instance of pushback against SJWs in a culture war that continues even now.

 

LOL I mostly used to stick to /f/, /tg/, /x/, and occasionally /d/. /b/ too, at least back before the huge influx of newfags around 2006-2007 meant that a /b/ thread had an average life span of 30 minutes.

 

17 hours ago, wherewulf028 said:

Correct. I got a Stern warning for saying "Skyrim belongs to the nords" on the mod

...Seriously?

 

17 hours ago, wherewulf028 said:

I usually find it in bad taste to quote giant texts like this, but this needs to be seen again on page two. The last segment especially. 4chan has absolutely gone to hell in a handbasket due to everything listed there. I didn't ask for these feels.

I know, man. I felt like a part of me died the day M00t returned, told all of 4chan to fuck off, and threw the purge into high gear. Horus Heresy novel-level feelings of betrayal, man.

 

6 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

Just going to go out on a limb and suggest that this site may not be the best place to vocally complain about anyone's sexual mores.

Who are you talking to? Because if it was about the example I gave of furry porn being posted on 4chan now, I don't care about the material one way or the other. My gripe is with the violation of the spirit of 4chan's native user culture, which had developed organically over nearly a decade. The posting of furry porn on 4chan was, for lack of better terminology, one of the sites oldest/'most sacred' laws (you could post that plenty of other places, just not 4chan). This is about a gross, sudden, inorganic demographic shift in the makeup of 4chan, essentially astroturfing as the oldfags were purged and Tumblrites flowed into the vacuum.

[SmedleyDButler]

...

 

Do you save all those screenshots just in case you need to rant about 4chan or some sort of creeping SJW takeover in random places online?

 

You seem kinda worked up, so maybe you missed some details: This isn't 4chan. This is LoversLab. Airing complaints about 4chan or "SJWs" here won't exactly achieve much. Nor will ranting about the fact that Beth offered players genuine open choice in romance or player identity (one of the few they choices they offer which really ARE open!) go very far on a board that seems pretty much dedicated to stretching that choice as far as human imagination can take it.

 

I'll admit that sure, there's stuff on here that ain't exactly my personal cup of tea (*ahem*), but funny enough that doesn't mean I have a problem with most of the fantasy exploration that goes on here - if it stays in the realm of fantasy, then it's usually not going to cause any harm and lets people express themselves in a healthy way. More to the point, it ain't my business what goes on in someone else's bedroom (unless of course they've chosen to share their interests... as happens a lot here, lol).

 

So if there are threads you don't like, consider simply avoiding them. I tell ya, it's a LOT easier, less stressful, and takes up WAY less of our precious time to do that than it does to dump slabs of loathing into other people's conversations.

 

Sure, this mod's kind of odd and may not have been completely thought all the way through. So what? That could describe something like half of all Skyrim mods, period! There's no creeping "SJW" conspiracy here.

[user9120975435]

13 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

ou seem kinda worked up, so maybe you missed some details: This isn't 4chan. This is LoversLab.

 

I don't know whether you are just trolling or being serious. That's his exact point. He is recognizing the exact same pattern or events starting to occur here as he did on many other places that were then taken over and destroyed. If this is actually happening, well, I guess I can just wish you have fun on a dead website, last one and alone.

 

13 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

Sure, this mod's kind of odd and may not have been completely thought all the way through. So what? That could describe something like half of all Skyrim mods, period! There's no creeping "SJW" conspiracy here.

 

I'm sure people on 4chan and other places thought that as well.

 

16 hours ago, HermausMoron said:

I attached a few of the more salient posts and collages (I could probably find more, but my hard drive is terribly disorganized). Even the betrayal and fall of 4chan was just one front of something much bigger. Gamergate was just the first major instance of pushback against SJWs in a culture war that continues even now.

 

Awesome, thanks!

[SmedleyDButler]

1) I suggest some basic statistics classes. One mod being posted is a not a trend. And a couple of posters (ones who are new or don't post much at that) panicking doesn't make for a stampede towards the exits.

 

2) I don't think it's me who's missing the point so let me put it a little more bluntly: This is NOT the place where rants that Bethesda allows players to choose their gender and sexual orientation are going to have much traction. Do you think the members of a forum designed around exploring and accepting hundreds - if not thousands - of different forms of sexuality are more likely to be on the side of 4chan or the side of the "SJWs"?

 

[HermausMoron]

14 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

...

 

Do you save all those screenshots just in case you need to rant about 4chan or some sort of creeping SJW takeover in random places online?

I've long had a tendency to document drama as it goes down in case people start trying to delete/hide things. And User9120975435 asked.

 

14 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

You seem kinda worked up, so maybe you missed some details: This isn't 4chan. This is LoversLab. Airing complaints about 4chan or "SJWs" here won't exactly achieve much. Nor will ranting about the fact that Beth offered players genuine open choice in romance or player identity (one of the few they choices they offer which really ARE open!) go very far on a board that seems pretty much dedicated to stretching that choice as far as human imagination can take it.

 

I'll admit that sure, there's stuff on here that ain't exactly my personal cup of tea (*ahem*), but funny enough that doesn't mean I have a problem with most of the fantasy exploration that goes on here - if it stays in the realm of fantasy, then it's usually not going to cause any harm and lets people express themselves in a healthy way. More to the point, it ain't my business what goes on in someone else's bedroom (unless of course they've chosen to share their interests... as happens a lot here, lol).

 

So if there are threads you don't like, consider simply avoiding them. I tell ya, it's a LOT easier, less stressful, and takes up WAY less of our precious time to do that than it does to dump slabs of loathing into other people's conversations.

 

Sure, this mod's kind of odd and may not have been completely thought all the way through. So what? That could describe something like half of all Skyrim mods, period! There's no creeping "SJW" conspiracy here.

*sigh* Yeah, chances are, you're probably half right. I have been going through a lot of real world shit lately, most of it related to SJWs to one degree or another, and circumstances deny me an outlet that doesn't put a target on my back. Objectively, I most likely used this as an opportunity to tangentially vent some frustration that has been building up for a long time. Hell, most of my points were in direct response to other users' comments.

 

However, you seem to misunderstand some of my positions. I do not care about the sexual tastes of other users, I'm more than happy to let them go about their own business, and already avoid mods that don't appeal to me. If anything, the reason I clicked this mod was because I couldn't make heads or tails of its content from the title alone (which isn't sexual regardless). Likewise, I wasn't complaining about the romance mechanics in Bethesda games, merely acknowledging that they seemed extremely silly.

 

Secondly, I don't actually see this as proof of an actual SJW conspiracy at LL. Most likely, this strikes me as a well-intentioned but painfully naive SJW modding n00b, with the possibility of this being some targeted infiltration simply being the worst case scenario (a point which, in retrospect, I may not have articulated well). Additionally, a few of Arron Dominion's comments got my hackles up, inasmuch as they reminded me of the rhetoric of SJW social engineers I've previously observed pulling shenanigans in other online communities. Even so, I would require much more evidence (e.g. Arron Dominion suddenly getting buddy-buddy with moderators and throwing his weight around) before I could say one way or another, and I definitely don't want to start a witch hunt. In short, there is much about this mod and its author I find disquieting, but I have neither the evidence nor impetus to do more than offer a warning re: this disquiet.

 

Thirdly, I initially came to this thread to mock the mod. Seriously, everything about it sounds pants-on-head retarded: it's not lore friendly (seriously, that scholar would probably get lynched for saying something this idiotically tone-deaf anywhere in Skyrim), it's insulting to players' intelligence, it shoehorns real world politics into the game in the cringiest way possible, it ignores basic aspects of human nature, it seems to be at odds with/oblivious to the general ethos of this website, etc., etc. One can't escape the impression that the modder doesn't know what he's getting into by posting here.

[SmedleyDButler]

Well, just try to remember that the vast majority of people looking for courtesy or consideration from others don't have some kind of hidden agenda to reshape society.

The internet has given so many people the opportunity to speak up when they would have otherwise been alone and silent. That means we're finding out things about ourselves that we'd have never imagined or at least kept hushed up - how common oddball sexual interests are, how many people actually don't fit the "conventional", simple model of gender or sexual orientation, or how common other forms of discrimination are, whether they're based on race, or gender or whatever.

 

So now that these things are becoming more commonly known, things are changing. No secret conspiracy required.

 

LL in its own... colourful way, is one of those many places where people are opening up and sharing those formerly hidden interests, but that doesn't mean there can't be a clunker now and then. Like I said, this mod is kind of goofy and not all that well thought out, but it's ultimately harmless.

 

In fact I do think there's the at least the seed of a good idea in this mod. Heimskr is already part of the vanilla game as it is and the Vigilants of Stendarr travel around looking for heretics to burn, so why not some sort of opposite number to Heimskr? Or more than one even? Historically, crazy itinerant preachers are a classic feature of brutal sectarian wars, especially medieval and early modern ones.

[Shubal]

"to look at current events in a familiar context of Skyrim"

 

How can you possibly compare the real world with a video game? I put 40 arrows in the speakers face and he still wouldn't shut up. How is that comparable to the real world? Where is your metaphor now?

[Arron Dominion]

@HermausMoron: 

I understand you have your own thoughts about this mod and have definitely heard your argument elsewhere.  Please PM me directly if you want to discuss in further detail than what is already posted here as a courtesy to other mod users/gamers/commenters here, or potential mod users/gamers/commenters in the comment section here.

[goldust]

SMH...SJW's EVERYWHERE!!! i play skyrim to get away from crappy SLW peps and their dam PC ways  

[coboda]

It would be hilarious if you took this concept and completely went overboard with it. The jarls have a secret meeting to enact hate-speech laws that are so strict that they  suppress the free flow of ideas and debate. guards come and arrest bards for singing culturally insensitive songs parents get fined if their kid dresses up as a khajit for halloween because it's cultural appropriation. you can make a quest for hearthfire where your adopted son tells you he identifies as a woman and wants to wear dresses and if you tell him "no" the jarl calls you a transphobe and the guards will take him from you and put him in an ophanage were evil doctors give him hormones and cut his d*ck off. the Imperials start a civil war by convincing the khajits and argonians that the reason they get arrested so often is because tamerial is systemically racist against non-humans and has nothing to do with the shitty choices they make while they're high on skooma. so they riot and burn down Inn's and breach palaces. 

[sissylover19]

wait lore friendly? you sure about that buddy going to be kind of hard to stand for unity 

when the goal of the thalmor is quite literally unmaking nirn dont get me started on the dunmer and well practically all races in the elder scrolls

the list of war crimes committed on tamriel exceeds our real life one night of tears dunmer enslavement dunmer generally hating everyone who isnt them

same for the altmer just add a superiority complex about the only peaceful races that dont hate each others guts or would care in anyway would be orcs

argonians if you stretch the lore a bit

 

if you think this is remotely lore friendly then i dont know what too say

maybe actually understand the lore great start would be fudgemuppet zaric zhakaron and double negative) because anyone with a remote understanding about the lore knows that this is the furthest thing from lore friendly you can get  

 

 

[Guest]

This is still one of the dumbest mods ever made and I'm disappointed there isn't a second part after so many years

[cire992]

Browsing through the mods section and I found this. I can not believe the guy posted this mod here after how it went down on the Nexus. But, I've always found this mod both fascinating and thought-provoking, just maybe not in the ways that the author intended. I know it's years old at this point, but humor me. I never got around to getting this off my chest.

 

First, the fascinating. I still, *still* can't tell for sure whether this mod wasn't just a really subversive joke. Look at his profile. The mod he made after this was a joke based on a south park episode. People just assume he was a leftist weirdo, but it's the internet, baby, it's easy to fake a persona. And this mod is memorable, you have to admit. From my vantage point, I really can't tell one way or the other. After all, you wouldn't walk into a bar and start preaching sobriety if you actually wanted to help fight alcoholism. That's why I perceive this as a joke. No rational person would do something like this, hence why it's one of a kind.

 

Second, the thought-provoking. This mod makes me stroke my lore beard because it's so uncanny. Here's an npc from our world. I don't really agree with his perspectives, but they're completely familiar to me. I recognize this guy. He's an earthling, he reminds me of my brother-in-law. And what's fascinating is that I instantly realize that no one other than the player character would have any clue about what this chucklehead is talking about. This mod has the unintended side-effect of demonstrating just how completely alien the minds of these Tamrielic people ought to be from our own.

 

Think about it. We all point to how unintentionally sinister it is that this guy put his preacher right next to the executioner's platform. It almost seems like a macabre joke. But, it's a mistake he could have made a thousand different ways. There is no appropriate place for this guy to give his speech anywhere in Skyrim. Or in Mundus at all. This mod kinda makes you realize that the very metaphysics of the Elder Scrolls would not only encourage, but actually validate the genocidal urges of men and elves. Not only do they have cosmically valid reasons to want to annihilate one another, but there are many learned men and mer across Tamriel that are aware of those cosmically valid reasons. I mean, the Thalmor are-- supposedly, trying to unmake creation! They believe that Talos worship is imprisoning them on Mundus, diminishing them. Not only are they racist and genocidal, there's a logic behind what they're doing. It makes sense to them. Can you even imagine if scientists in our world discovered a way to unmake creation? You think that given the intellectual hygene of the modern world that some group of people wouldn't be trying to do just that, complete with a well-articulated rationale? That's terrifying. Why should we wonder why Nords hate elf mischief?

 

This mod made me think about all of that, and for that I actually appreciate it. It highlights so starkly just how different we are from the people of Tamriel. This guy is so, so out of place in this world that there's no way for the author's message to get across without it getting scrambled into incoherence by the setting it's being conveyed through. I've always felt like Tamriel is home, I think all us fans feel that one way or another. Yet, a mod like this, putting two realities side by side really gets me wondering. What's really going on in the heads of the people of Skyrim? Because it clearly is nothing like what what goes on in our own. That brings me to a suggestion.

 

I want a part two to this mod. But it wouldn't be for Skyrim. You'd just post it somewhere as a wall of text, kinda like how Michael Kirkbride does sometimes. I don't know if Aaron Dominion knows jack shit about TES lore, so maybe he wouldn't make a good candidate for this project. But for part two, someone has to write a diatribe from Heimskr's point of view about what someone from Tamriel would see as a social cancer in our world. If this guy made this mod as a joke in the first place, then maybe this is a direction he planned to go in. If not, then he'd probably argue that I missed the point. Which I did, for courtesy's sake.