Well...

[RJLbwb]

Got Fallout 4 and now I see why the reaction to, they did do an excellent job on the game graphics and stability. But damn, what they did to the lore.  What's with all the super mutants? the things are sterile and from the west coast, and Boston is over run by them WTF?  Just stupid GM endless supply of expendable NPCs.  I suppose it was just to much to ask the developers to introduce a new monster?

 

And I can't put my finger on it but the game story line doesn't suck me in like FNV or even Skyrim. It's like the game somehow lacks soul.  Maybe it's the child was clearly kidnapped years before the Sole Survivor is finally out of the vault so the sense of urgency isn't there like with running down Benny in FNV.

 

And, one bit that I thought was odd they over looked; why the Sole Survivor didn't notice the comparison between the paranoia about the Synths in the Commonwealth and the Communists before the Nuclear War.

[mercplatypus]

Definitely hear you on the Super Mutant thing.  I wont spoil the explanation that you uncover in the story for their presence if you haven't gotten there yet, but everything concerning them and the raiders is so terribly lackluster that it was almost a chore running into them every block of the street.  I play fallout 4 quite a bit but I really miss the sense of identity the different raider groups had in earlier titles.

 

I think the greatest problem I have with the story of fallout 4 is that there really is no point where it feels sensible or right for you to not pursue the main story regardless of how not motivated you may be to actually follow it.  In New Vegas you hit a point where you had a number of potential solutions forward to be completed in your own time after dealing with Benny.  It didn't feel like you were ignoring something that should be vitally important for your character to run side quests.  Helping settlements when I need to find my kid?  Helping runaway synths?  Piddling around with the brotherhood?  It goes on and on.

 

Bethesda really did not do a worthwhile job on storytelling here.  The story should be something to follow.  Instead its a hindrance.  Fortunately an enterprising group of people is recreating New Vegas into Fallout 4 via modding.  It's early progress yet but could be superb when it is ready for release.

[AWP3RATOR]

I also found a implausible that after waking to witness my spouse murdered and child kidnapped, I'd awake again - only to go off on grand adventures rebuilding civilization, helping out everyone who asked, going to Nuka-World, or Far Harbor - instead of chasing down the kidnappers and finding out where my son was and why he was taken.  Sure you can ignore those side pieces and go after the main quest, but it's almost as if the game sets you up to be off ignoring the Shaun story.  Preston Garvey, minutes after saving their life - offers all kinds of radiant quest content to follow his agenda.  The player is free to ignore these things sure, but as a RPG player, unfinished quest content in my journal makes me go through fits lol.

 

I believe that Bethesda wanted to go for "open world" here, not forcing the player in to a linear story-line - but there aren't any penalties for not following up on the main story-line and almost no one even mentions it.  It would be nice if the longer time went by that a player didn't follow the main story, the more annoying companions or any npc who know what happened would get - they could more frequently ask questions about Shaun's whereabouts and/or provide suggestions on what to do next, if they were in my situation - and so on.

 

I think for me ultimately, the main story line kidnapping event happens so early and so fast on in the game, that I wasn't properly connected to the characters.  Though I do credit the attempted creativity with this scenario, as it is a departure from the previous "sole survivor" scenarios  - but ultimately it's not well developed or established early on and ends up falling a bit flat.  In other words, the player (from what I've gathered online) doesn't really care that their son was kidnapped.  It's simply a story line and a means to provide quest content.

The factions in the game are a whole other issue I have.  Underdeveloped (Minutemen), missed opportunities (Brotherhood of Steel & Institute), or uniquely irrelevant (like the Railroad, Raiders, and Gunners).  There a number of mods which help restore or add content to each of the factions - and I wholly appreciate the good work the modding community does in this area.  It's like having life long DLC content

 

That all being said, I dont' think it's a bad game, and I do like it quite a bit - hence my hundreds of hours playing it - discovering things, trying out new mods, creating others, and so on - but it's not the "best" Fallout game, imo.

 

Instead of Bethesda releasing another "special edition" of Fallout 4 - I'd like to see an HD remake of Fallout 3 or NV - now THAT would be something special indeed.

[NNS10]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:27 PM, AWP3RATOR said:

I believe that Bethesda wanted to go for "open world" here, not forcing the player in to a linear story-line - but there aren't any penalties for not following up on the main story-line and almost no one even mentions it.

There's one major penalty... and that would be lack of content! The most annoying thing about FO4 is how you're forced to push through parts of the main quest line to unlock other parts of the game. Seems like Bethesda tried to make it like one of those AAA story-driven RPGs while also trying to keep their open-world roots. And they end up utterly failing at both.

 

There's good reason why most people ended up going back to Skyrim. As as much as I like guns over swords, every time I play FO4 I'm reminded of how little there is to do if you ignore the main quest line. Heck, three of the four faction quests lines are locked behind the main story quests. Makes open-world roleplay pretty much impossible.

[AWP3RATOR]

You're not wrong about the Skyrim comparison.  One could easily spend a few hundred hours in Skyrim and never even go see Jarl Blagruuf after the Helgen/Riverwood intro! 

[RJLbwb]

Quote

I believe that Bethesda wanted to go for "open world" here, not forcing the player in to a linear story-line - but there aren't any penalties for not following up on the main story-line and almost no one even mentions it. 

Except the game constantly ambushes you with major quest lines, like I learned that the Minutemen isn't a quest, it's full time job playing rescue ranger.  As you said, I have to rescue my kid, not some idiot farmers who are two lazy arm themselves.

 

The interior cells are amazing in the game; I never get the "seen this mine before" like with Skyriim. The NPCs are interesting. Moding the bullet sponge out of the NPCs the combat is fun. It's a blast mucking around the map, but it seems to go south on the big quest lines.

[Hayleyrose2323]

On 1/6/2018 at 11:04 PM, RJLbwb said:

they did do an excellent job on the game graphics and stability

Did you get a weird Remastered Fallout 4? GIMMIE.

 

Honestly, the best way to explain fallout 4 is, its like they took a failed attempt at making a fallout movie and decided to turn it into a game for some reason...

In fallout 4 i gotta work for my fun. In new vegas as soon as I launch it up i am IN THE ZONE instantly. 

[Jazzman]

On 1/7/2018 at 5:04 AM, RJLbwb said:

[...]

And, one bit that I thought was odd they over looked; why the Sole Survivor didn't notice the comparison between the paranoia about the Synths in the Commonwealth and the Communists before the Nuclear War.

That's because the SS themselves is a North American and having paranoia and thus a much-feared (and interchangeable) bogeyman that is coming for them is the normal in North American life since the days of the Pilgrim Fathers. Watch the news on TV and you know what I mean. So, Bethesda's introduction of a bogeyman paranoia in the Commonwealth was to be expected as a feature. However, I did not expect my settlers to butcher unrelated renegade synths freed by [ spoiler ] that are trying to live a new life in peace only because they act slightly different. That forced me in early 2016 to introduce martial law in the settlements and the decimation of settlers in Roman fashion, in midst of the whole assembly that is. What to say, I haven't observed any new murder case in the settlement network since late 2016. Even the striking Synth-o-phobia has gradually disappeared. Apparently I've got the god in the propaganda machine by his algorithmic balls... lol.

 

With Sim Settlements and the Rise of the Commonwealth far less fearful and thus far more determined settlers inevitably lead to economic and military self-sufficiency of the settlement network. They don't need me anymore. They themselves will make the Commonwealth a better place. And that's great.

 

I have fought the good fight.
I have finished the race.
I have kept the faith.

[RJLbwb]

6 hours ago, Hayleyrose2323 said:

Did you get a weird Remastered Fallout 4? GIMMIE.

 

Honestly, the best way to explain fallout 4 is, its like they took a failed attempt at making a fallout movie and decided to turn it into a game for some reason...

In fallout 4 i gotta work for my fun. In new vegas as soon as I launch it up i am IN THE ZONE instantly. 

I am comparing Fallout 4 to Skyrim. In fact before adding mods my Fallout game crashed only once.

[RJLbwb]

1 hour ago, Jazzman said:

That's because the SS themselves is a North American and having paranoia and thus a much-feared (and interchangeable) bogeyman that is coming for them is the normal in North American life since the days of the Pilgrim Fathers. Watch the news on TV and you know what I mean. So, Bethesda's introduction of a bogeyman paranoia in the Commonwealth was to be expected as a feature. However, I did not expect my settlers to butcher unrelated renegade synths freed by [ spoiler ] that are trying to live a new life in peace only because they act slightly different. That forced me in early 2016 to introduce martial law in the settlements and the decimation of settlers in Roman fashion, in midst of the spared assembly that is. What to say, I haven't observed any new murder case in the settlement network since late 2016. Even the striking Synth-o-phobia has gradually disappeared. Apparently I've got the god in the propaganda machine by his algorithmic balls... lol.

 

Like the developers of the game, I  am a "North American" and I noticed.  It's sufficient to say only a portion of the US population thinks with their lizard brain and my experience is the difference between the US and other countries is we Americans don't pretend don't have problems like this.  A culture the brings the world batman beds and inflatable dinosaur costumes isn't all about guns and paranoia.

 

If the point wasn't obvious, by lore the reason why it was thirteen Commonwealths and not fifty states, even the libraries have death bots and run turrets protecting them and  there are all these Chines stealth tech and weapons alll over the American wasteland is because the Chines were supporting an active insurgency in the US population before the end.  Not quite the same as the crazy old man next door  who watch to much TV being afraid of that the Mexican who mows their lawn is secretly a drug dealer.

[Jazzman]

On 2/22/2018 at 3:01 PM, RJLbwb said:

Like the developers of the game, I  am a "North American" and I noticed.  It's sufficient to say only a portion of the US population thinks with their lizard brain and my experience is the difference between the US and other countries is we Americans don't pretend don't have problems like this.  A culture the brings the world batman beds and inflatable dinosaur costumes isn't all about guns and paranoia.

 

If the point wasn't obvious, by lore the reason why it was thirteen Commonwealths and not fifty states, even the libraries have death bots and run turrets protecting them and  there are all these Chines stealth tech and weapons alll over the American wasteland is because the Chines were supporting an active insurgency in the US population before the end.  Not quite the same as the crazy old man next door  who watch to much TV being afraid of that the Mexican who mows their lawn is secretly a drug dealer.

Of course, as kids we just loved the $16.000 Giddyup Buttercup, didn't we?

 

However, what you've noticed is not necessarily what the SS has noticed. We're just the drivers of avatars, remember? The percentage of people that actually get indoctrinated and thus believe in a presented bogeyman like the Institute here largely depends on non-stop propaganda and the level of pressure put on them by the public in case they ain't that sure about it yet. Doubt that Mama Murphy would be pleased if one calls her an Institute stooge just for fun or forces her to curse the Synths at gunpoint in Inquisition fashion, or else. 

 

And please... the SS has no idea of a Chinese occupation of or a military 5th column in the US, and strangely enough, neither the Bostonians nor the Outcasts/BoS from DC seem to remember these things. Only we who we have played the Lone Wanderer in DC, some ten years before the SS leaves the cryo tank, do remember it. I had a tough time fighting a bunch of little ghoulified green men back then and got me a jiggling Chinese Assault rifle as trophy, indeed. There's a stranded Chinese ballistic sub in the waters of Boston Harbor tho that has rejected to fire its nuclear missiles, but that's all.

 

On the SS. What's really going to bake their North American noodle later on is, where does the strange "They are spying on you" propaganda come from. The folk legend is totally aware of (earlier) Synth replacement in the families, as is the Railroad and most likely, the Minutemen as well. So, what faction in the Commonwealth that is vividly interested in the Institute's technology has still no idea of what is actually going on (which could be far worse than spying), thus it just mirrors the own behavior onto the adversary to demonize and isolate him, and yet is perfectly equipped with the means to spread propaganda 24/7 on a larger scale and effectively w/o ever appearing on the radio and, moreover, is prohibited from fraternizing with the locals they derogatorily call "scum"? And what does that tell us about the mindset of the people of the Commonwealth?

 

If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself (i.e. the echo chamber effect).

__ Joseph Goebbels, Adolf Hitler's Propaganda Minister

 

This is Jazzman, Maxson's 2IC aboard the Prydwen in the year of the Lord 2292... ^^

[RJLbwb]

On 2/22/2018 at 6:33 AM, Jazzman said:

And please... the SS has no idea of a Chinese occupation of or a military 5th column in the US,

 

Let me repeat myself

Quote

If the point wasn't obvious, by lore the reason why it was thirteen Commonwealths and not fifty states, even the libraries have death bots and run turrets protecting them and  there are all these Chines stealth tech and weapons all over the American wasteland is because the Chines were supporting an active insurgency in the US population before the end.

And let's add the Chines invasion of Alaska, which apparently was were Nik was in combat in going by the prelude, and the US army check points all over the place. You go read the log at the South Boston one they were ordered to search for Chines spies.  Bit hard for the SS to not notice, don't you think?

 

I suppose Nik was to busy with his PTSD after Anchorage but Nora is a lawyer and would be on the potential subversive list in the kind of McCarthist paradise the US had turned into. (remember, anyone who thinks professionally isn't a 27% REAL American) She would be likely quite aware of what's it's like being one of the Others. Al
 

Quote

nd yet is perfectly equipped with the means to spread propaganda 24/7 on a larger scale and effectively w/o ever appearing on the radio and, moreover, is prohibited from fraternizing with the locals they derogatorily call "scum"? And what does that tell us about the mindset of the people of the Commonwealth?

 

 

The BOS of course, I played FNV, you know the one were the NCR murders BOS members on sight for being assholes and Eliot tries to release a cloud of death over the West?

 

[RJLbwb]

Well another quest line to never dare start; the Merchanist.  talk to the bot and the game is over run with tank bots.  Just wow...

[Jazzman]

16 hours ago, RJLbwb said:

Let me repeat myself

And let's add the Chines invasion of Alaska, which apparently was were Nik was in combat in going by the prelude, and the US army check points all over the place. You go read the log at the South Boston one they were ordered to search for Chines spies.  Bit hard for the SS to not notice, don't you think?

 

I suppose Nik was to busy with his PTSD after Anchorage but Nora is a lawyer and would be on the potential subversive list in the kind of McCarthist paradise the US had turned into. (remember, anyone who thinks professionally isn't a 27% REAL American) She would be likely quite aware of what's it's like being one of the Others. Al
 

 

The BOS of course, I played FNV, you know the one were the NCR murders BOS members on sight for being assholes and Eliot tries to release a cloud of death over the West?

 

Numerous repetitions don't turn thin air into a smoking bratwurst. It remains a Nothingburger. The Chinese invasion of Alaska isn't even mentioned in F04, let alone Nick's alleged PTSD as Alaskan War veteran. Both are nice conjectures. "Mr and Mrs Smith" could be just as well valuable CIA assets or nothing at all. Fact is that the personal memories of the SS only start on the day the bombs fell which, in turn, leads to an interesting conversation with DiMA about the question who or what the SS actually is. DiMA gives the closing answer of a typical oracle which, unfortunately, leaves it to us to decide whether the SS is a Synth or just a traumatized human (if so my char is traumatized in her fifth year already and there's no sign of recovery).

 

Indeed, my SS knows as much about her year-long lawyer profession and modern laws as such like I do - viz nothing, nada, niente. The law of the jungle she's exercising so professionally is none worthy to be reckoned as shiny civilizing beacon on a sanctuary hill, even if some contemporaries of ours might vividly disagree. Besides, the call to look for adversarial spies under the table or the bed in good McCarthy fashion is not to be confused with real guerilla advisors operating with a local insurgency of which we don't find a shred of evidence in the Bostonian libraries... nor a Chinese assault rifle in the Commonwealth.

 

I know what you feel, that there must be some sort of consistency, thus logic, in the series. However, Bethesda is almost infamous for the creation of loose ends by willfully throwing candy crumbs of information along your path through the story so that you feel a bit like Hansel or Gretel, knowing that there should be a gingerbread house full of candy at the end of the line. Don't eat the fuckin' candy! You will be disappointed by the mirage. The meeting between a loving parent and their just curious child on top of the CIT building is such a disappointment, the strongly felt presence of the even-aged Lone Wanderer "out there" just another. Same is true for your just felt presence of the People's Liberation Army in the Commonwealth. Maybe, just maybe, the little green men never came as far South...

 

Of course, I'm familiar with the BoS. It was this faction I've admired so much. Changed my mind after a sad discussion with the ghouls of Underworld in DC when Winthrop assured me that the BoS are using them as "clay pigeons" for the military training of their recruits. That genocide shit I know, my mother is a native American (South).

 

Our chars are living in interesting times, as the Chinese proverb goes

Good hunting! May the stimpaks be with you!

 

 

[Stiffon]

On 1/7/2018 at 11:27 AM, AWP3RATOR said:

 I'd like to see an HD remake of Fallout 3 or NV - now THAT would be something special indeed.

Check it out - there's also a FO3 one in the works!  Hope they manage to keep going and complete them!

 

http://www.f4nv.com/

[nIn nIn nIn]

I watched the intro video again recently (I usually skip it when starting a new game). It's worth watching again Jazzman.

[RJLbwb]

The leaping ghouls, my god ......  It's like the Devs were a bunch of fanbois they kept in Skinner boxes so they would be free of any human contact.   Challenge is one thing, but not when the game goes  stupid.  And I mean as far as challenge goes,  they give you a suite of freaking power armor and a mini gun at level two,,, gods.

 

EDIT: and making you fight things in the glowing sea, in the fog and rain so you can't see, that ninja dodge.  Perhaps it's my stigmatism so the spinning around gave me motion sickness but that was beyond unpleasant. Anyway, what is with EVERYTHING ninja dodges in this game?