Eventual Dark World Compatibility Issues.

[TriggerBlade]

So I like to see myself as a code dissector. I've downloaded every CK2 mod on this forum and combed through the code to fix and adjust to my liking. For a long time, I was continuously Frankensteining old and new Dark World content until sub-mods started coming out that supplemented the missing content. I also mess with the code of those sub-mods

 

So now I'm starting to see patterns with what's being introduced and how they're being executed. Up until this point, all the sub-mods for DW just expanded content or restored content Dew had stated he wasn't focusing on, which is fine. However, now there are mods that are filling in holes that the core DW mod would eventually be incorporating.

 

I'm not saying this is a bad thing. I enjoy using almost all of the sub-mods and even toy with the less stable mods for fun. I just don't see people thinking about what was a long-term and is now a short-term concern.

 

An example is that we have a mod related to a Lilith cult and one related to Lilith religions. Christianity Mod makes those 50% redundant now that the author has made a simple thing to insert religions to make use of the mod's lustful content.

 

Again this isn't inherently a bad thing. I play with all three mods activated and even worked my dissection skills into basically making them all one mod. I'm just pointing out that things seem like they're on a fast track to having some serious compatibility issues or redundancies and that some folks may want to start thinking about putting in contingencies. Not everyone is like me and can figure out how to edit files to work together better.

I don't got much else to say right now, but feel free to share your thoughts. Do you see this as an actual concern? Do you think I'm paranoid? As a mod author do you have plans that scan for mods that are present? As a mod author do you think I'm full of it? Feel free to share.

[NoxBestia]

I have always worried about compatibility.  The more work I do on my own mod the more I have to modify DW:R files.  The more I do that, the less compatible I am with everyone else.  I started removing some of the 3rd party stuff I had added in to make Darkest Perversions easier to make work with things like AGOT, Warhapper, CK2+, etc.  I've also started naming a lot of traits with nox_ in front of them so they wont clash with a trait of the same name in some other mod.  The only other thing I can really think to do is offer to work with other mod authors to make our stuff compatible when we discover a conflict.

[ngppgn]

Inter-mod compatibility is sadly but also predictaby goinf to be more or less a headache.

 

For example, say a mod does some custom.stuff whenever two characters become lovers. One either have to resign to just use a high frequency maintenance event or having to modify files in each mod you want the custom b3haviour to work with. And let's not even start on making a mod with custom slavery mechanics mesh well with AGOT, Elder Kings and Warhammer at the same time...

[dewguru]

I'm not opposed to making some adjustments to help this. I'd imagine if we bang our heads together, we could probably figure out a way that I could use a scripted_effect or _trigger, that you and others could further hook into or use.

[cormorand]

On a side note, what I would really love to play is your awesome mod dewguru with the complete content that Toska made additionally made for yours! Aliris did a very great job to actually mitigate update issues between yours and Toska's "addon" but really fun parts are lost by now (i.e. Harley events and Litlith's own society --> though last seemed buggy from the beginning, at least for me). Is there any chance something like that could be managed?   I would do it, had I the time, patience and knowledge to help you guys...

 

EDIT:

The coolest thing would be to have DW:Reborn, Expanded Slavery, Immersive Slave Training and Toska's mod in one big one  

[sas0066]

On a side note, what I would really love to play is your awesome mod dewguru with the complete content that Toska made additionally made for yours! Aliris did a very great job to actually mitigate update issues between yours and Toska's "addon" but really fun parts are lost by now (i.e. Harley events and Litlith's own society --> though last seemed buggy from the beginning, at least for me). Is there any chance something like that could be managed?   I would do it, had I the time, patience and knowledge to help you guys...

 

EDIT:

The coolest thing would be to have DW:Reborn, Expanded Slavery, Immersive Slave Training and Toska's mod in one big one

Right now I am playing with my package of mods using DW:Reborn and Ck2Plus as core mods. In additional I am using DW:MerCom, Toskas submod, Secret Lesbian Society and right now testing it with Beyond Heresy I think adding some extra stuff and making them work together should not be a problem.

[NoxBestia]

One of the most helpful things to mod inter-compatibility is a global flag indicating the presence of the MOD.  That way other people's MODs can be designed to check for said flag and adjust accordingly.  I currently have the following identifying global flags in my stuff:

• Darkest Perversions (a Dark World submod): NOX_DARKEST_PERVERSIONS_ACTIVE
• NoxBestia's Darkest Perversions Alone: NDPA_Activated
• NDPA Compatability Modules:
  1. NDPA_AGOT_Active
  2. NDPA_CK2Plus_Active
  3. NDPA_DarkWorldReborn_Active
  4. NDPA_Warhammer_Active
  5. NDPA_HIP_Active

[NoxBestia]

Decision Compatibility Enhancement

 

Unlike individual events, decisions can't be overridden unless you copy the entire file which adds to the maintenance headache of tracking changes to the mod you have copied a decisions file from.  In order to avoid this, I will be adding a check for a unique global flag to every decision in my MODs.  This way any other modder can add code to their mod that can be used to active & deactivate any of my decisions without having to keep track of changes I make to my files.

 

If everyone who writes mods were to add such a check to each of their decisions, cross-compatibility would be so much easier.  Here is an example:

 

decisions = { 
	nox_auto_impregnate_me = {
		#is_high_prio = yes # Will show an alert once decision is enabled
		potential = {
			#Conditions for the decision to appear
			NOT = { has_global_flag = disable_nox_auto_impregnate_me }	# for use by other mods to disable this decision
		}
		allow = {
			#Conditions for the decision to be enabled
		}
		effect = {
			#Commands executed when taking the decision
		}		
		ai_will_do = {
			#Factors for an AI character to take the decision (1 = 100% chance)
		}
	}
}

 

 

 

[Aliris]

Beyond Heresy was never meant to be played with Christianity, because they function at cross purposes. Christianity alters the nature of the standard Christian religions, which entirely defeats the purpose of having to become a heretic and fight to establish a rival to the established order. 

 

To put another way, the very point of the religions in Beyond Heresy is that they're Heresies, and represent a public expression of what was previously kept secret.

 

As for other mods, yes, you're correct that they used old code or reimplemented stuff from the original Dark World that in some cases DW has since replaced. This is part of why the version of Toska's mod I made cut out a lot of the things from the last version Toska posted, since those were either buggy or duplicative (in my view).

[Ookami3185]

Perhaps the compatablily issues with Beyond hersey and Christianity(sorry my spelling sucks) may receive a helping hand from the next expansion as it seems to be geared towards making your own reliegion in game.

[TriggerBlade]

On 7/10/2018 at 7:49 PM, Aliris said:

Beyond Heresy was never meant to be played with Christianity, because they function at cross purposes. Christianity alters the nature of the standard Christian religions, which entirely defeats the purpose of having to become a heretic and fight to establish a rival to the established order. 

 

To put another way, the very point of the religions in Beyond Heresy is that they're Heresies, and represent a public expression of what was previously kept secret.

 

As for other mods, yes, you're correct that they used old code or reimplemented stuff from the original Dark World that in some cases DW has since replaced. This is part of why the version of Toska's mod I made cut out a lot of the things from the last version Toska posted, since those were either buggy or duplicative (in my view).

 

On 7/16/2018 at 4:20 PM, Ookami3185 said:

Perhaps the compatablily issues with Beyond hersey and Christianity(sorry my spelling sucks) may receive a helping hand from the next expansion as it seems to be geared towards making your own reliegion in game.

The reason why I used Christianity mod was that it had a lot more events that were for a lack of a better word lustful. Beyond Heresy still has people being mad at adultery, unmarried women still create bastards, lust as a sin, and Christianity mod also injected a ton of events such as your priestess offer herself to be the bicycle at a feast and your relatives be the bicycle at the spring festival.

I did my frankenstein work to try my best to have the beyond heresy mod use those events instead, but Christianity's code is so clustered that just looking at it gave me a headache. Heck implementing other religions was difficult because of such code issues. Honestly Guru's format should be the rule of thumb for every mod which thankfully a lot of the submods do.

[genericlogin]

Christianity Mod has a bunch of scripted triggers which you might find useful, defined in christ_scripted_triggers.txt. The idea is that a new religion, such as those in Beyond Heresy, can use those triggers. If they do, they can take advantage of all those new and modified events from Christianity Mod.