Mod order support for the lame wannabe modder

[netruss1964]

Hello, I have owned Skyrim for years. I tried modding in the early days but found I could not effectively keep track of the process in the one to two hours per week I had available to play. Learning the tools and the procedures, assembling it all and then making it all work together over an extended period was a nightmare. I would forget how or what and have to read it all again, then by the time I was done I had no time left to play test...(whine...). Since Mod Organizer, and a change in employment, I have dusted off Skyrim and am trying again. Now I have problems working through the load order of all the mods. The game plays. Skins do not match faces on npc's about 65% of the time, archery does not work ( you equip bow, draw bow then nothing...just stand there holding a notched, drawn arrow with no way to loose the shaft.), NPC's holding torches un-equip the torch for whatever reason and then walk around with their arm bent and gripping air as if holding a torch, odd freezes while traveling, CTD's at odd times. I have learned more in the last two months but find lots of conflicting information on body types and then making those bodies look and behave close to my expectations. I would like some people to share with me their load order and through comparison I might be able to reconstruct my game with the mods I would like to use. I could post my mod list and have it picked at ( that would be easy for me at least) but I want to have a successful play through rather than the last two months of not being able to progress the story past Whiterun due to the constant tweaking attempting to fix things. UNP, UNP skinny, SOS, Sexlab and a number of related mods from here, FNIS, Skykids some of the stuff i had from before and had to update if I could find it. I have read numerous mod installation pages and txt files but I am still struggling with the mass. I need advice, what information do you need to give it? As I said earlier, If I could look at enough other peoples successful load orders I should be able to work mine out correctly leaving only mods that no one else uses. I should be able to ditch or figure out the remaining mods. Oh well, please comment. I believe most of my problems are load order, conflicts and inexperience. Thank you for looking any way!

Edit: I have just finished deleting my Mod Organizer folder and Skyrim game folder to start over. I have copied my mod list and will begin reinstalling everything from scratch so any pointers on load order are appreciated! Thanks again!

[ButchDiavolo]

STEP... follow at least the start of it up to and including the extenders (2.C). If you want to follow the step project line out, then continue on, but the first part is the most important imho.

[AgentCarolina]

Also if you're ever downloaded stuff that messes with animations, YOU GOTTA RUN FINIS

You just gotta.


 

[netruss1964]

Also if you're ever downloaded stuff that messes with animations, YOU GOTTA RUN FINIS

 

You just gotta.

 

 

 

 

Did, do, started using Mod Organizer. That was interesting...then FORE is grumping about Mod Organizer support...(He is a great help even when he is cranky, seriously.). It's the other mod choices and order mostly. Thank you for your input! Have a great day!

[netruss1964]

STEP... follow at least the start of it up to and including the extenders (2.C). If you want to follow the step project line out, then continue on, but the first part is the most important imho.

 

Okay, looked at STEP and joined the program. Nothing further then that. That was two months ago, I will go back. In your experience/opinion following the STEP procedure is good. What about the mod.s I do not choose to run? Just ignore what I feel is a strain on my system or unwanted? Also, the reason for my post here, what about the mods not mentioned on STEP, that I got here, there and elsewhere? All report clean ( LOOT, TES5Edit, WryeBash... the usual suspects doing the checking.). I have been working at it, I just keep missing/not reading/confusing (pick two.) the important details and screw the balance up. The whole Body choice ordeal and HDT vs TBBP...depending on which install page you read it can get really confusing. At least I was/am confused. Some of the issues last month was 4K textures on an armor mod ( I did not know I was DL the 4K pack by default rather than the 2k. it took me a week to figure out the CTD's in menus) and a mod that added textures for undead females put out of order gave NPC's zombie skin, stuff like that. All right, Skyrim is finishing the clean install and I am off to STEP. I will read some more there and look back here for more info if offered. Thank you for your help. This has been a confusing, frustrating experience but so many people try to help in this community and most of the related communities. You have made a difference. Thank you again.

[ButchDiavolo]

I follow the STEP plan (the Core one, with the green bars before it). BUT I pick and choose what mods I want to install. If they recommend mods that I will never use or am not interested in, then I don't install them. Also, I never install  texture mods that are more than 2K. Unless you have a new monitor that can actually show the difference between 2 and 4 K textures, there is absolutely no point in getting 4K textures. Your graphics card will have to render those bigger textures and can cause a massive drop in fps (and even CTDs).

 

The way I mod Skyrim is: first I do the STEP thing. once that is done, I install other mods that are not mentioned in STEP such as texture mods, Sexlab mods etc. But I do keep the general STEP divisions. So non-STEP object texture mods go under the Step object texture mods, NPC texture mods go under that part of the list etc. Since STEP doesn't include SexLab mods, they go at the bottom of the list, but before the "Patches" (section 2.N.).

 

As far as the body types and HDT I can't help you, since I have never used them. I always play as a male and I have no interest in non-vanilla women. For the problems related to Bodytypes and HDT, you can best post a message in the respective sub-forums, since most of the expert users are there.

 

As for LOOT. It is a very handy tool, but it is not always correct. So run LOOT to sort the mods and then tweak the loadorder using common sense. MO can help you in this respect, because in the left pane you can see which mod overwrites which. (which probably explains why your NPC got zombie skins). So ALWAYS check which mod overwrites which and adjust accordingly.

 

For installing FNIS in MO, there is a little "trick" you have to use if you also install other FNIS files (creature, spells etc): You first install FNIS, renaming the mod to FNIS. Then Install the "add-ons" and ALSO rename them to FNIS! Then you will get the option to merge the add-ons into the FNIS mod. This way you have only one FNIS mod (with the add-ons merged into it) which reduces the possibility of fnis errors.

 

Cleaning mods: you already know how to clean mods with TES5edit. Most non-STEP mods don't have dirty edits. If you use one that does, clean it. SexLab mods generally have no TES5edit problems. (cos Lovers Lab modders are awesome).

 

This are just some pointers, off the top of my head, to keep in mind when modding Skyrim. I am sure there are plenty more tips.

Oh! and remember that the step site has a wealth of tips/ guides, so do a search on the site for more information.

 

Last, but definately not least: install Crash Fixes. And read the description page from more optimising tips.

 

Good luck!

 

P.S. It might also be a good idea to follow your post here, so you will get notified when someone responds. Just click on the "Follow this post" button at the top right of this screen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[netruss1964]

I follow the STEP plan...

Good luck!

 

P.S. It might also be a good idea to follow your post here, so you will get notified when someone responds. Just click on the "Follow this post" button at the top right of this screen.

 

Great information! Specifically the FNIS part, I did not consider merging them together as I have done others. As for the body types, I always play as a male ( mostly because I am a male trapped in a male's body.) and although I did not initially find the vanilla females a problem I ran across these youtube videos...Yeah, I was fascinated by hypnotic cleavage motions and began a side trip. Call me a perv. I do not really care as long as I do not end up on some offender list or in the back of a squad car. I do like eye candy, animate or inanimate. I enjoy beautiful things. The modding was more fun than playing the tired old title, at least for awhile. Seeing the changes in the visuals and in the game play and knowing that I am doing it "my way" has built the anticipation level up so now I am getting frustrated with my failures. Again I extend my thanks to you and all the others who have helped the confused here, Thank you. I imagine I will be posting the results of this venture in case you are interested. Have a great week!

 

[ButchDiavolo]

As my avatar says "Supercow al rescate!"... Supercow to the rescue I enjoy helping people with problems I can help with. I know how frustrating it is when you are modding Skyrim and it just won't work the way you planned it. Boy, do I know... I am on my 15th (or so) install of Skyrim, due to various problems, issues and mysterious events. So if I happen to see a post asking for help, and I can, then I at least try to help.

 

As I said before, you are best off asking specifically about HDT and the different body types in their respective sub forums. The way it works on the LL forum is that if you have a big, complicated problem, cut it into pieces and post in the relevant threads, because that is where the users/ developers/ mod creator are. But before posting, read the thread to see if your question has already been asked. If it is a known issue, it will have been answered multiple times. And people tend to get... um... huffy if someone asks yet again. Don't get me wrong, the LL community is incredible. Most are extremely helpful. But you can also imagine that if you answered a question, probably many times, they can get a bit "depressed" and will ignore the question.

 

Modding correctly involves A LOT of reading. The best thing you can do for yourself (and your sanity) is read up as much as you can and at least have a basic knowledge of how mods functions. That way it is easier to troubleshoot issues if (when) the come up. Again, this is why STEP is such a valuable asset. But also the LL forums are a valueable asset, because 99.9% of the time, the issues you have has already been answered.

 

Again, good luck! And have a good week.

 

[Nazzzgul666]

I wouldn't consider myself an expert in these things, for the practical things better follow the official guides, but i think i can give you at least some hints what to search for.

Your problems don't sound like bad load order to me, and if, i'd just recommend Loot, that does a pretty good job for the load order. To solve your problems i'm sorry to say that you still have a bit work to do, but it's worth it.

 

First thing you should do is: make sure the SKSE thing for extended memorey is properly configured, i struggled myself some time to get this working with MO and can't say for sure what i've done and what has worked, but there are several guides out there.

Next, even if you don't use an ENB, use ENBoost. In parts it depends on your hardware/system which config is best, and after reading some guides there, you can play a bit with some values to find the best options.

 

After doing that myself i still have some random CTDs, but very random, means: it might happen 5 minutes after playing, but more often than not my game runs fine for several hours without crashing.

 

Almost last: It's not only the load order you should care about in MO + Loot. The install order (left side in MO) is much more important. But usually that's just a case of reason, nothing too complicated. Like: make sure a patch for a mod is below the mod itself. If a mod has requirements, they should be above the mod. The only thing i know about which requires knowledge is the skeleton, never let that be overwritten by anything. MO will tell you if something overwrites anything, here is an example: http://prntscr.com/ccvlei

And an example for the only case MO is wrong, usually a lightning bolt means: "I'm unecessary because everything is overwritten.", but somehow i need both.

A green + means, "I'm overwriting something".

A red _ means "'Something overwrites me".

You can double click those symbols to get a pop-up which mod is overwritten, and even which files. So if you're searching for a problem with textures and you have a suspect, but it only overwrites scripts, it's probably another mod which causes the problem.

 

Oh, and make sure you start everything in MO. FNIS, Bodyslide, Loot, SKSE, TES5edit. And never start Skyrim itself, let it be done by SKSE via MO. Although i believe, after a complete reinstall, you have to start Skyrim once via Launcher, but really only that single time. It should look like this:http://prntscr.com/ccvu3c

 

And finally: use the "Alternate start" mod. When something doesn't work as expected you might try a new game, some mods even require that, and this mod will allow you to skip the intro sequence. Saves a LOT of time when testing.

[netruss1964]

As my avatar says "Supercow al rescate!"...  also the LL forums are a valueable asset, because 99.9% of the time, the issues you have has already been answered.

 

Again, good luck! And have a good week.

 

 

I wouldn't consider myself an expert in these things... Saves a LOT of time when testing.

 

Hey. Thank you. I am struggling with step. It is pissing me off frankly. I am too irritated at the moment to assemble the issues correctly in my head to express myself clearly. (ooossaaaawwww....meditation routine....) I do not find the information presented in a way that is clear. Here is where I began, starting with core, STEP:2.2.9.2 - S.T.E.P. Project Wiki. Is this a good one? (or THE one?) I guess I am too easy to throw off track by all the pretty pictures and the bold red print thrown in places...(sigh). The process feels like it is wrong somehow. There are specific instances where I am installing a mod that has a patch for a mod I intend to use but have not installed yet...I cannot, with the referred FOMOD installer, install a patch for a mod I do not have. I am assuming the STEP patches include these or I am reinstalling the mod later...don't know. Then they have me installing the skeleton and on the specific instruction page is a BOLD RED notice to be sure to run FNIS. The STEP core has not had me install FNIS yet...should I have it already? It is making my spidey sense go nuts waiting to see how I missed something...start over?!? again?!?!? I feel like such a kid with this stuff, an eight year old in a room full of adults with master's degrees speaking of dark matter. "didn't you know that?". Thanks again! Mod till it hurts!

EDIT: The notice to run FNIS was not in red text, my memory was incorrect there. Still working on it.

[ButchDiavolo]

*chuckle* Yes, that is the correct page, And I agree that sometimes STEP feels... counterintuitive. The way I do it is this:

 

When it says to install a mods with patches for mods you don't yet have, install the mod when STEP says you should, but don't activate it yet.And make a little note to reinstall it when everything (beside the patches) are installed. Then go through the list/ notes and reinstall the mods, this time with the correct patches. The most important thing about STEP seems to be the order in the left pane of MO.

 

As for FNIS: Fnis is installed as the last mod/ tool/ patch. You won't/ shouldn't be running Skyrim while still installing mods (the benchmarking is for the techiegeeks). So one of the last steps you take is running FNIS before starting Skyrim.

 

An important tip when first running Skyrim: if you won't install a mod that skips the Helgen scenario (Live Another Life, skyrim unbound), then do NOT install any other mods yet. The Helgen scenario is both extremely script heavy and badly written, so too many mods starting up and starting their scripts is bound to cause problems. Wait with installing other mods until you are able to go into an enclosed area (player house/ small shop).

 

Let me know when you have more questions or finished STEP. I can probably give you a few more pointers when you are done. Also I can teach you about dark matter and dark energy if you want. I might even give you a lollipop while you are listening

[ButchDiavolo]

And an example for the only case MO is wrong, usually a lightning bolt means: "I'm unecessary because everything is overwritten.", but somehow i need both.

 

I want to make a "caveat" to this, Nazzzgul666. In the case of PapyrusUtils (which in STEP is to be installed quite early on) you will get the gray lightening bolt after you install SexLab Framework. This is because SexLab itself includes PapyrusUtils. The best thing to do in this case is to check which version is the newest. At the moment SexLab includes the latest version, so you can safely delete the PapyrusUtil which has the grey lightening bolt.

 

But for installation purposes, you might want to keep it installed, until SexLab Framework has been installed.

[netruss1964]

*chuckle*... The way I do it is this:

 

When it says...I might even give you a lollipop while you are listening

 

H.R.!... S.H.A.R.P. incident in occurrence!...*MOMMY!* (did you just pat my knee?)

 

Yeah, That's kinda the way I figured to pull it off. I appreciate your thoughts ( now I am concerned about your intentions though...I am not really eight...Hey! this is funny!) Seriously though, Thanks. I am getting into the "rhythm" of it now. I basically am using their base as a "step off" into my own program I believe I shall christen as The SKIP program. I seem to have skipped from 1/4 to 1/3 of the mods so far...I don't want needs and...and... so yes, SKIP seems to apply thus far. A lot I used in my previous broken play list so I am not deterred by this. Thanks again! Be safe!

 

Tune in next week to learn how our hero fares....

 

EDIT: I want to be sure to state clearly that I perceive the STEP program as a very worthwhile en-devour and the individuals involved are to be commended for their hard work and great intentions. I support them, in spirit at least at the moment. The fact that i am struggling with the program does not condemn it or it's supporters ( I am a member after all...).

[Nazzzgul666]

 

As my avatar says "Supercow al rescate!"...  also the LL forums are a valueable asset, because 99.9% of the time, the issues you have has already been answered.

 

Again, good luck! And have a good week.

 

 

I wouldn't consider myself an expert in these things... Saves a LOT of time when testing.

 

Hey. Thank you. I am struggling with step. It is pissing me off frankly. I am too irritated at the moment to assemble the issues correctly in my head to express myself clearly. (ooossaaaawwww....meditation routine....) I do not find the information presented in a way that is clear. Here is where I began, starting with core, STEP:2.2.9.2 - S.T.E.P. Project Wiki. Is this a good one? (or THE one?) I guess I am too easy to throw off track by all the pretty pictures and the bold red print thrown in places...(sigh). The process feels like it is wrong somehow. There are specific instances where I am installing a mod that has a patch for a mod I intend to use but have not installed yet...I cannot, with the referred FOMOD installer, install a patch for a mod I do not have. I am assuming the STEP patches include these or I am reinstalling the mod later...don't know. Then they have me installing the skeleton and on the specific instruction page is a BOLD RED notice to be sure to run FNIS. The STEP core has not had me install FNIS yet...should I have it already? It is making my spidey sense go nuts waiting to see how I missed something...start over?!? again?!?!? I feel like such a kid with this stuff, an eight year old in a room full of adults with master's degrees speaking of dark matter. "didn't you know that?". Thanks again! Mod till it hurts!

EDIT: The notice to run FNIS was not in red text, my memory was incorrect there. Still working on it.

 

Hm, i have to admit that i didn't really follow step, or even knowing it by heart. But maybe that's the reason for my random crashes, most times i watched some youtube tutorials how to setup things.The imho difficult things to install are things like ENBoost and SKSE, things you don't install in MO but don't forget to configure MO to use it afterwards. However, some more things in general:

Afaik you can install FNIS at any point, but you can't play without running it. You can try but animations will be missing or even be broken, including vanilla ones. If you ever have problems with animations, just quit the game and run FNIS, that might fix it.

And yes, FOMOD installers might cause a problem when you install a patch for a mod you didn't install yet, i'd install required mods first no matter what a guide says. Don't forget that those guides might be (much) older than the version of the mods you're installing, there is no point in following them blind imho.

 

Good thing is: you're using MO. At least for me the reason for MO isn't because it would be easy to handle, it isn't. But at least for mods you're installing there, It's almost impossible to get things so messy that you need to start from scratch again. So if you've installed a mod via FOMOD with a patch for a mod you didn't have yet, I'd install this necessary mod and just reinstall the FOMOD mod again, MO can handle this. 

Usually it's even enough to change the install order just by drag & drop, FOMOD installers might have routines to check if something is avaivable, though, that's why i'd reinstall them.

 

You only have to be careful if you were already playing with a mod and uninstall it, that includes updating mods. The Skyrim engine doesn't provide a possibility to stop/delete scripts properly, even so called "clean saves" are no guarantee that it's really clean. As long as there is no game breaking problem, i usually avoid updating and even uninstalling mods with scripts during a running game to avoid causing bigger problems, others do that often, though. 

I start new games pretty often, so that's no big deal anyways for me, if you want to test a mod, i'd make a save via console (just type 'save <nameofsave>'), that way you'll get a save with a custom name easy to find again some time later if you don't like the mod for any reason. That's at least the save way, but of course you can try to make  a clean save and hope it works, most times it does.

 

Btw. if you make a new profile in MO, it changes order to alphabetical, if there is a possibility to avoid that i didn't find it. To avoid problems here, i rename at least the mods i want to have in a certain order (and have problems to remember which one). I just name them from "modname" to "aaModname, abModname,...", that helps to keep them in order.

 

And last, use http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/31724/? SkyrimSave cleaner regularly while playing, but keep a backup. I'm not even sure what these "form id's" are it deletes, afaik it includes different stuff and once or twice i had problems with quests because it deleted too much, but imho it's impossible to avoid using it. If i have more crashes than usual, it deletes around 1k of these form id's and then it's running fine again, and at least half of the deleted id's are vanilla. Especially after visiting a city for the first time, there seem to be much stuff which should be cleared even without any mods installed.

[netruss1964]

 

 

Hm,...a new profile in MO,

...

 

 

I just click the "Priority" or "Mod Name" category headers to switch back and forth between order of occurrence or alphabetical. I have used multiple profiles in Mod Organizer but it makes FNIS act stupid so I stopped pressing my luck. If any one has any comments on that issue (explanations or fixes I would love to hear about it.). When I was dealing with this issue I discovered Fore had withdrawn support for FNIS with Mod Organizer and help from him was strained. Regardless, He helped, I got it fixed and I do not dick around with profiles any more. Thank you for your time! 

 

[netruss1964]

I have completed the STEP core install of in excess of 160+ mods. I learned nothing myself of why the MODs were downloaded and installed in the order they were suggested with the instructions they gave. I had 280+ mods in the game I just cleansed from memory with the problems mentioned in the initial post I expected to install up to two thirds of those again...with out much in the way of change in my understanding of the details I expect to now experience new and improved problems given the number of modifications. This is not good. I tried not to download anything in STEP that I knew would conflict with expected future/previous mods but...(SIGH). I feel back at the beginning and with in a week I will have color changing NPC's , no archery and probably new issues...

[ButchDiavolo]

I have completed the STEP core install of in excess of 160+ mods. I learned nothing myself of why the MODs were downloaded and installed in the order they were suggested with the instructions they gave. I had 280+ mods in the game I just cleansed from memory with the problems mentioned in the initial post I expected to install up to two thirds of those again...with out much in the way of change in my understanding of the details I expect to now experience new and improved problems given the number of modifications. This is not good. I tried not to download anything in STEP that I knew would conflict with expected future/previous mods but...(SIGH). I feel back at the beginning and with in a week I will have color changing NPC's , no archery and probably new issues...

 

Take a deep breathe... and relax.

 

The reason why STEP puts the mods in the order they are is simply that, in case of the textures, the textures are overwritten in the order of installing.

The mods that where installed alphabetically could be installed in any order without issues. They just belong to that mod category. That was mentioned on the STEP site.

 

Now that you have installed the STEP core, there is one important mod you have to install that isn't included in STEP (yet?) and that is Crash Fixes 12. Crash Fixes needs SKSE Plugin Preloader, so get that one as well. The preloader is a .dll file that you must put in the orginal Skyrim directory, so don't install it with MO!

 

Crash Fixes will prevent the most common causes of CTDs. SKSE Plugin Preloader will, and you won't believe it..., load SKSE plugins before the game is initiated when you start up.

 

If you didn't install a mod that skips the Helgen intro, the best thing you can do is start Skyrim and play through the intro, before installing anything else. Then when you made it to Riverwood, go into Alvors/ Gerdurs house or the store. Or any other quiet interior space. Make a save and exit the game. Now you can start adding all the other mods you want.

 

If your did install Live Another Life or SKyrim Unbound, you don't have to start Skyrim, but can begin adding your others mods.

 

The thing to remember when adding these mods is:

 

- which mod will overwrite which. You can see that very easily in MO. Nazzz explained how a few posts back (the plusses and minuses ect).

i.e. SexLab Framework will overwrite PapyrusUtil. This is because SexLab includes PapyrusUtil. So this is good. In the left pane, you will see a grey lightening bolt, which means that PapyrusUtil is redundant. So you can safely remove it.

 

- if in the right pane you see a broom next to a file, this means that the esp (or esm) is redundant as well. The esp/esm is just there to make sure the associated .bsa files are read. Since you should have MO handle you BSA files, you can safely untick the esp/esm files (freeing up some plugin space). This is usually the case with big texture files, such as the HighRes Texture packs.

 

- when you want to see which files are being overwritten of a certain mod, double click on the mod in the left pane. This will open a screen with some tabs. Click on the "Conflict" tab. This has two panes, a top and a bottom. The top one shows which files the mod you are viewing is overwriting (resulting in a green + in the left pane main list). The bottom one shows you which mod is overwriting the mod you are viewings files (resulting in a red - in the left pane main list). if another mod is overwriting the files you need to use, then move the "offending" mod above the correct mod in the left pane.

i.e. SOS will overwrite a lot of Skyrim's original files. If you install a mod that changes the male textures/meshes after SOS, this mod will most likely overwrite the SOS files. now, if you want to keep using the SOS files, you have to move the mod that overwrites SOS above SOS in the left pane list. This will ensure that when you play Skyrim, the SOS files take precedent over all others.

 

So, keep modding. And don't panic! If you run into weirdness, you can always ask here. Just keep track of what mod are overwriting eachother.

[netruss1964]

 

Take a deep breathe... and relax...

I understand the colored +/-, I understand Mod Organizer pretty well at this point. I have cleaned files with TES5Edit, ordered mods with LOOT, created hundreds of bashedpatch0's to click and drag around and run GenerateFNISforUsers God only knows. I am not familiar with the file structures of the game and the mod files which alter it. I am working half blind. I am going to have to suffer with my stupidity a bit longer while I figure this out. I do not always know which file should win in the conflict resolution game, i have made some educated guesses and some bad ones. It took me a week to get the mods i had to play nice and I worked for about five weeks ( off and on of course) since then trying to nail down the texture issues, the imaginary torch and the archery fail with no luck. I was evidently hoping that by participating in the STEP program I would learn more of the "Why" or have some epiphany through osmosis or something. I apologize if I appear to be ranting, I kinda was. Thank you for the pointers every 10 sentences or so I get some thing new I did not know yet so please and thank you. I am going to start assembling my mod installs and shove some more content into the bag. I shall return with better questions I hope. THANK YOU Vachnic!  

[Nazzzgul666]

 

 

Take a deep breathe... and relax...

I understand the colored +/-, I understand Mod Organizer pretty well at this point. I have cleaned files with TES5Edit, ordered mods with LOOT, created hundreds of bashedpatch0's to click and drag around and run GenerateFNISforUsers God only knows. I am not familiar with the file structures of the game and the mod files which alter it. I am working half blind. I am going to have to suffer with my stupidity a bit longer while I figure this out. I do not always know which file should win in the conflict resolution game, i have made some educated guesses and some bad ones. It took me a week to get the mods i had to play nice and I worked for about five weeks ( off and on of course) since then trying to nail down the texture issues, the imaginary torch and the archery fail with no luck. I was evidently hoping that by participating in the STEP program I would learn more of the "Why" or have some epiphany through osmosis or something. I apologize if I appear to be ranting, I kinda was. Thank you for the pointers every 10 sentences or so I get some thing new I did not know yet so please and thank you. I am going to start assembling my mod installs and shove some more content into the bag. I shall return with better questions I hope. THANK YOU Vachnic!  

 

No reason to say sorry for ranting, at least for me.

So many mods i don't want/think i need them and no explanation why i should use them is exactly the reason why i never bothered following it.

Usually there is a proper description what a mod does at the page for the mod itself, you might check them if something is changing the archery system for example. And hopefully the names give you a hint which one. 

Afaik the only reason not using a mod would cause problems* is when it's required for another mod, but that you'll see fast, game will crash when starting, and MO tells you which mod is missing and which one needs it. So if that's the case, you can decide to use both or none of them.

 

*except mods which fixes bugs, of course

 

Sometimes it's enough to have a requirement installed, but leave the .esp unticked so it doesn't change your game. I know that works for "Estrus for Skyrim" as an requirement for "Estrus Chaurus +" for example. I don't know a way to figure out those mods by yourself, but asking in the support thread for the mod that requires a problematic mod will usually help here. Or simply post a papyrus log when you have problems, there are many ppl who see/know problems and if they can be avoided, although i count myself to those wise guys.

 

About file structure: the point about MO is that it leaves your data folder untouched. Instead, it creates a virtual data folder which you'll never see. There are the files according to your install order and the game loads mods from there. That means, if you want to replace for example the sound effects from sexlab, you go to your MO folder, then "mods->sexlab->sound->fx" and replace the .wav files for the voice you chose ingame (voice 1, voice 2, 3,...).

However, this structure you see in the sexlab folder is also the structure you see when you click the green +  etc in MO.

 

And sometimes, problems in your game don't mean you did anything wrong. Instead it's just a bug in a mod you're using, or a conflict between 2 mods which might happen no matter which order you use. The savest way to nail the problematic one down is just to disable all*, and enable one after another.

And especially here it's important to try this with a new game. That's the only way to make sure there are no leave-behinds that still cause problems although you disabled the mods. I never tried Skyrim unbound, Alternate start puts you in an empty cell with no NPCs around which is good to install some mods like sexlab without anything disturbing you. And it allows you to start with owning breezehome for example to check if NPCs are ok afterwards, you'll be teleported there from this cell if you choose that  option.

It might be a good idea to start with minimum mods, wait until they are installed, then make a save in the cell or breezehome and install some more after that save. It happens that if you start/install too much mods at once one or another doesn't get installed properly which can cause strange things either.

 

*all means: everything you don't need. Things you'll need are things like FNIS, the cleaned patches etc., usually a skeleton and the requirements for mods you'll leave installed. 

It's been too long that i had no clue and did that myself, so i'm afraid i'd forget something if i try to give you a list of mods you shouldn't touch, but afaik: don't worry to make mistakes here. Just untick them in MO and you'll see when it was too much. You shouldn't be able to do something you can't fix with some few mouse clicks.

You might try it the other way around, leave everything enabled and disable one after another. It's reasonable to test mods from the category where you have problems. For archery and torch: gameplay and combat system changing mods for example (imho both in both cases), but not every mod has the proper description in MO, you might need to guess and check the description of suspects. If only some, but not all NPCs are affected, disable mods that add NPCs. Don't try to solve all problems at once, that's just confusing. Do one after another.

 

The most difficult problems to find are caused by too much stress to your system. If it's out of memory or can't handle the script load, pretty much everything from bad textues to strange behavior to broken quests or crashes can happen in every mod or even vanilla and it's not the fault of a single one, hard to reproduce for others and changing load order often just means, you might change one problem for another. So every mod that adds several NPCs is always the first one i disable when i'm hunting bugs, every NPC causes stress in both memory and scripts running. The whole devious devices and Cursed Loot are quite script heavy, but they have some MCM settings to reduce stress without disabling them completly, often worth a try to use those settings.

That's why i recommend to use and configure ENBoost and SKSE things first, that allowed me 2x-3x the amount of mods i could run without problems than before.

[netruss1964]

Bless your thick skin and grey matter.  Still working on it. Stop yelling! I am trying!

(I may have invented the yelling part to add drama...).

[netruss1964]

As my avatar says "Supercow al rescate!"... Supercow to the rescue I enjoy helping people with problems I can help with...

First question ( I decided I should spit them out as they occur rather than save up a massive list...): In TES5Edit, It has been my practice to right click the bashed patch and "Apply filter for conflict losers". After all the red shows up I start dragging files around or deleting files... how much and which ones showing red are game breakers? Can I / should I ignore any of that? Thanks again.

[ButchDiavolo]

 

As my avatar says "Supercow al rescate!"... Supercow to the rescue I enjoy helping people with problems I can help with...

First question ( I decided I should spit them out as they occur rather than save up a massive list...): In TES5Edit, It has been my practice to right click the bashed patch and "Apply filter for conflict losers". After all the red shows up I start dragging files around or deleting files... how much and which ones showing red are game breakers? Can I / should I ignore any of that? Thanks again.

 

 

Ermegersh! No. No no. One does NOT mess with the bashed patch! Use Wrye Bash to make a bashed patch. And that is it. Don't try to clean or rearrange the bashed patch. Ever.

 

What Wrye Bash does is look through all your mods and looks for leveled lists and other mod content that can be merged, so you can disable the mods that are merged (Wrye Bash does this automagically anyway) and cut down on your installed plugins.

If you start "cleaning/ messing" with the bashed patch, the patch will lose it's functionality. And cause massive problems, because you are now missing content and/or corrupted content.

 

So: NO... don't do it. Delete your current batched patch and make a new one and don't touch it!

 

[netruss1964]

 

Ermegersh!... NO... don't do it. Delete your current batched patch and make a new one and don't touch it!

 

 

 

On the preceding page I asked politely that there be no yelling...I am very sensitive...(sniff). I have done nothing to the bashed patch specifically. Now i have to go read the manual on TES5Edit again. I understood that choosing/applying a filter affected all loaded mods. Choosing to duplicate an entry from say...UNP armor re-placer to NPC Invisible helmets to turn it green does not change the bashed patch does it? There is a column labled BashedPatch0 which I do not touch, it appears as another mod on the page. Stop scaring me... I am off to study this now. Thanks!

[ButchDiavolo]

 

 

Ermegersh!... NO... don't do it. Delete your current batched patch and make a new one and don't touch it!

 

 

 

On the preceding page I asked politely that there be no yelling...I am very sensitive...(sniff). I have done nothing to the bashed patch specifically. Now i have to go read the manual on TES5Edit again. I understood that choosing/applying a filter affected all loaded mods. Choosing to duplicate an entry from say...UNP armor re-placer to NPC Invisible helmets to turn it green does not change the bashed patch does it? There is a column labled BashedPatch0 which I do not touch, it appears as another mod on the page. Stop scaring me... I am off to study this now. Thanks!

 

 

When doing work in TES5edit, it is usually best to load just the mods you want to check or all mods, except the bashed patch.

 

And I wasn't shouting I was... um... speaking a bit loud. With blood and stuff.

 

Edit:

also, when you are done working in TES5edit, especially when you have been "playing" within the leveled lists, it is a probably a good idea to rebuild the bashed patch, since things have been changed.

 

[ButchDiavolo]

Oh and I keep forgetting to post this for you.

 

The loadorder is the MO right pane list.

the modlist is the MO left pane list.

modlist.txt

loadorder.txt