Normal Female Animations Suck, Do we need CK before we see some real animation changes?

[WaR_SPiRiT]

I just started a new melee character in Fallout 4, and it made me realise that my female character stands like a man. She walks like a man, she runs like a man and well she just sprints... Anyone working on something better? Thanks.

[Halstrom]

I just started a new melee character in Fallout 4, and it made me realise that my female character stands like a man. She walks like a man, she runs like a man and well she just sprints... Anyone working on something better? Thanks.

No they're not, so its up to you to do it...........

[Leito86]

JRPGs are that way --->

[AsariX]

Well, first we're going to need a physics displacer to work, something like HDT or whatever.

Next, we'll need to replace the combat boots with some proper shoes with 6-inch stiletto heels (heelless heels for the institute, ofcourser).

And then, and only then will we be able to make realistic animations with properly arched backs and swaying butts and stuff.

Really gotta do stuff in the right order.

[DexesTTP]

Short version, no, we don't need the CK.

 

 

Long version :

Animations aren't handled by Fallout or Skyrim directly, but by a series of Frameworks made by Havok.

 

For Skyrim, the version used for all Havok files was the 2010 32 bits one. At the time, there was a free SDK given by Havok that allowed talented people to write a software to convert the hkx animation files (Skyrim's ones) to files readable by free software.

 

The Fallout files use the 2014 64-bit version, which has no SDK given at all. So, in order to make any animation, we need to either rewrite the converter from scratch, find a format workaround and use the old converter or use the Havok Animation Studio. There was an old thread on Nexus which described a workaround with a video to show what can be done, but I didn't meet anyone who could actually make it work. Most animators don't have access to the Havok Animation Studio, as it is a little bit pricey.

 

So, even with the CK, we couldn't make our own animations. We probably need a tool written from scratch to make it happen.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Short version, no, we don't need the CK.

 

 

Long version :

Animations aren't handled by Fallout or Skyrim directly, but by a series of Frameworks made by Havok.

 

For Skyrim, the version used for all Havok files was the 2010 32 bits one. At the time, there was a free SDK given by Havok that allowed talented people to write a software to convert the hkx animation files (Skyrim's ones) to files readable by free software.

 

The Fallout files use the 2014 64-bit version, which has no SDK given at all. So, in order to make any animation, we need to either rewrite the converter from scratch, find a format workaround and use the old converter or use the Havok Animation Studio. There was an old thread on Nexus which described a workaround with a video to show what can be done, but I didn't meet anyone who could actually make it work. Most animators don't have access to the Havok Animation Studio, as it is a little bit pricey.

 

So, even with the CK, we couldn't make our own animations. We probably need a tool written from scratch to make it happen.

 

FO4, and all of BGS's previous games, don't differentiate between male and female skeletons in the animation flags. It's possible to do so but that requires a script, which does require the GECK, to flag individual animations as being one sex or the other. At least that's what I was led to understand.

[DexesTTP]

FO4, and all of BGS's previous games, don't differentiate between male and female skeletons in the animation flags. It's possible to do so but that requires a script, which does require the GECK, to flag individual animations as being one sex or the other. At least that's what I was led to understand.

Actually, that's not true for Skyrim which differentiated between male and female animations for some reason. But, for FO4, that's indeed the case and it might need a script or a behavior change to implement female-specific animations.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

 

FO4, and all of BGS's previous games, don't differentiate between male and female skeletons in the animation flags. It's possible to do so but that requires a script, which does require the GECK, to flag individual animations as being one sex or the other. At least that's what I was led to understand.

Actually, that's not true for Skyrim which differentiated between male and female animations for some reason. But, for FO4, that's indeed the case and it might need a script or a behavior change to implement female-specific animations.

 

 

I'm not surprised by that. It feels like Bethesda wasn't even trying to make this an RPG. So of course characters don't get any attention because they don't matter beyond being suppliers or cannon fodder.

[Guest Akrabra]

What is wrong with the animations? The normal running one looks abit weird, but other than that they seem fine. 

[WaR_SPiRiT]

It's when she holds a one hander melee weapon, I only noticed because I started a new melee character. Basically her legs are spread, her arms are spread and her shoulders are back and firm. Doesn't look comfortable, and definitely not feminine.

[Anbeegod]

I think the animations are just fine. You don't expect someone to run with elegance in a wasteland.

[guk]

Pretty much half of the animations in FO4 are laughably bad. This gets often quite immersion-breaking when characters suddenly seem to be puppets or robots. No idea how anyone can find them credible or natural?

 

For example the female player idle has this weird tilting and stretching of the pelvis which is anatomically impossible, together with the slightly hunchbacked forward tilt of the neck this does absolutely NOT look natural or aesthetically pleasing. Luckily there is a mod to replace the player idle and flavors with NPC styles.

And while the female walking animation looks only slightly weird, the female running animation from the side looks like a cartoon rabbit on hot embers. Many combat animations are really crappy, like the "weapon drawn idle" seems to be ported 1:1 from Fallout 3 / NV. And there seems to be no reaction on the player face when aiming or shooting a gun.

 

You see i could go on about this forever. However:
 

Short version, no, we don't need the CK.


Long version :
Animations aren't handled by Fallout or Skyrim directly, but by a series of Frameworks made by Havok.

For Skyrim, the version used for all Havok files was the 2010 32 bits one. At the time, there was a free SDK given by Havok that allowed talented people to write a software to convert the hkx animation files (Skyrim's ones) to files readable by free software.

The Fallout files use the 2014 64-bit version, which has no SDK given at all. So, in order to make any animation, we need to either rewrite the converter from scratch, find a format workaround and use the old converter or use the Havok Animation Studio. There was an old thread on Nexus which described a workaround with a video to show what can be done, but I didn't meet anyone who could actually make it work. Most animators don't have access to the Havok Animation Studio, as it is a little bit pricey.

So, even with the CK, we couldn't make our own animations. We probably need a tool written from scratch to make it happen.

And this pretty much concludes FO4 modding for me, until someone figures out how to get custom standalone and replacer animations into the game.

IMO Screenarchery is just boring and repetitive without mods to force poses and facial animations. So what do i need all the great outfits and textures and body replacers for, if i can only make the exact same screenshots with the player standing around in vanilla idle and staring at nothing with this dumb look in the face?

[Kaz Aanh]

Short version, no, we don't need the CK.

 

 

Long version :

Animations aren't handled by Fallout or Skyrim directly, but by a series of Frameworks made by Havok.

 

For Skyrim, the version used for all Havok files was the 2010 32 bits one. At the time, there was a free SDK given by Havok that allowed talented people to write a software to convert the hkx animation files (Skyrim's ones) to files readable by free software.

 

The Fallout files use the 2014 64-bit version, which has no SDK given at all. So, in order to make any animation, we need to either rewrite the converter from scratch, find a format workaround and use the old converter or use the Havok Animation Studio. There was an old thread on Nexus which described a workaround with a video to show what can be done, but I didn't meet anyone who could actually make it work. Most animators don't have access to the Havok Animation Studio, as it is a little bit pricey.

 

So, even with the CK, we couldn't make our own animations. We probably need a tool written from scratch to make it happen.

 

Why should "we" do this? Why Bethesda can't do this? They for sure have all stuffs like plugins for 3dsmax and photoshop, and proper tools/documenations about creating animations.

 

"we love our modding community" my  ass

 

If they don't release together with the GECK , at least some tutorials about these new files types. And we get nothing.

 

[DexesTTP]

Why should "we" do this? Why Bethesda can't do this? They for sure have all stuffs like plugins for 3dsmax and photoshop, and proper tools/documenations about creating animations.

 

"we love our modding community" my  ass

 

If they don't release together with the GECK , at least some tutorials about these new files types. And we get nothing.

I think they can't really do this.

 

First, they don't seem to use 3DsMax but Havok, so they don't have the plugins ready. The format we are given is native to the tool they use.

 

Second, the Havok format, even if I think there's some kind of license transfer, is still Havok's. I don't think Bethesda have the right to disclose its internals, and I don't even know if they know the internals (as they should deal with the data only via the Havok framework).

 

And this pretty much concludes FO4 modding for me, until someone figures out how to get custom standalone and replacer animations into the game.

IMO Screenarchery is just boring and repetitive without mods to force poses and facial animations. So what do i need all the great outfits and textures and body replacers for, if i can only make the exact same screenshots with the player standing around in vanilla idle and staring at nothing with this dumb look in the face?

You might be in luck, because I'm working on exactly such a tool. Of course, it will take some time to finish (I'm already a month in and I'm barely beginning to have some kinds of results) but assuming nothing happens these tools should be available for the end of the year (very large estimate), and some early builds should appear rather soon.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

 

Why should "we" do this? Why Bethesda can't do this? They for sure have all stuffs like plugins for 3dsmax and photoshop, and proper tools/documenations about creating animations.

 

"we love our modding community" my  ass

 

If they don't release together with the GECK , at least some tutorials about these new files types. And we get nothing.

I think they can't really do this.

 

First, they don't seem to use 3DsMax but Havok, so they don't have the plugins ready. The format we are given is native to the tool they use.

 

Second, the Havok format, even if I think there's some kind of license transfer, is still Havok's. I don't think Bethesda have the right to disclose its internals, and I don't even know if they know the internals (as they should deal with the data only via the Havok framework).

 

That seems to be half the equation. The other half seems to be an attitude at Bethesda that whatever they can't (or won't) do, the modders will. It's that kind of laziness that has alienated players and modders alike (like Kendo2 here on LL).

[Halstrom]

Pretty much half of the animations in FO4 are laughably bad. This gets often quite immersion-breaking when characters suddenly seem to be puppets or robots.

Maybe they are robots? That would be an interesting mod that gave different animations to Gen3 Synths as a subtle indicator they weren't human.