CGi Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 The heat not a "bad" issue, but it causes the card to throttle, which makes it slower then it nVidia counterpart.So to keep the performance/price ratio up, the card needs to be cooled rather good so it runs at it's optimal clock speeds. Actually: ATi users have better performance in games with nVidia GameWorks as most shaders are not utilized. Good trade-off? Depends on personal taste. nVidia HairWorks is definitly best when off, as it looks terrible and costs to much performance for imo a degrade in visuals. As you said: You hit a hard limit in 32bit games and even if the game is 64bit, utilizing the 64bit driver component to it's full extend, or made to adress more then 3.8GB VRAM thru DX and the driver, the bandwidth will still be a limiting factor, not to mention that high resolutions need at least 6GB of VRAM (like the Occulus Rift). But this and 3k/4k gaming is out of the scope when looking at what the thread author is looking for. And ENB is made with nVidia in mind. it does not run faster on nVidia but a tad more stable. As for the upgrade advice: Totally agree with you and all the others who mentioned it, even tho i recommend waiting.
afa Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 For heat to really be consider throttling there are basically two scenario, the card itself is overheating to the point where things go bad at stock settings, or you are overclocking and hitting thermal limits. I doubt any non reference 390/970 card will overheat to the point where it starts to affect performance out of the box, if it does there's something wrong with that specific card. (a reference 290/290x maybe, but not the current gen) The other would be overclocking which is whole another can of worms altogether.
bjornk Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Well, the problem is, most cards with custom coolers come factory overclocked these days. Some even advertise overclocking abilities (or utilities) as a "feature". You either get a reference card with a bad cooler or a custom card with a good cooler but factory overclocked. There isn't anything in between.
CGi Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 ATis 29x and up run at their limits, hitting the temperature where the cards start to throttle in most "new" games. No OC or over-the-top graphic settings needed, just default with native screen res. The best cards for ATi users are due to this Sapphires Tri-X or MSis Twin Frozr series. nVidia simply does not convert this much power into heat, so most non-stock coolers are sufficient for pretty long gaming sessions. Whoever buys a card with a stock cooler, does something completly wrong so those are not even taken into consideration. Anyhow: Why is this discussed in this thread again? So far, the majority recommends to wait or save money for a 980 or up.
Thehunteroftruth Posted November 2, 2015 Author Posted November 2, 2015 Thanks for the answer guys. Will the 390 be good with the psu and case i mentioned before? Anyways I plan on playing on 1080p.
CGi Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Did you mention your PSU?Well... 750W 80% with 2 mechanical HDs and and lets say 2 SSDs + the 360 will be more then enough to power your PC and run games @1080p and offers some room for upgrades.
Thehunteroftruth Posted November 2, 2015 Author Posted November 2, 2015 Did you mention your PSU? Well... 750W 80% with 2 mechanical HDs and and lets say 2 SSDs + the 360 will be more then enough to power your PC and run games @1080p and offers some room for upgrades. Yes I did, see below. I have in mind 1 ssd for the OS and 1tb Hard disk. Check this: http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-390-vs-GeForce-GTX-970 Looking at the specs comparison the radeon is better. But be sure your PC case has a really good airflow. I have this case in mind. I'm not sure if it is any good with this card but it's cheap. It's called lc power gaming 975. I also found the psu of the same brand at 650w. Will this be enough?
CGi Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 i'm pretty stuborn when it comes down to PSUs, as for me everything below a Seasonic is not worth considering especially when thinking about the output stability and what damage a failing PSU can cause. But milestones differ, so some people will recommend different ones like Corsair, XFX and such.But if you want/need to buy a new PSU, then get at least a decend one as it's the heart of the PC. Seasonic isn't cheap and so isn't Corsair. But XFX, beQuit and such could be a good alternative for you. And don't aim for anything below 700W Silver (80%), as imo is reduces the expandability of your PC and the PSU is the last thing you want to upgrade, just because you upgrade something else. Cable management is important as well, to get a good airflow into your PC case.
zzz72w3r Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Another PSU snob here. You can't go wrong with any of the brands listed by CGI but I am bias toward Seasonic as well because it's where the other big brands go to if they need to impress reviewers (many top Cosair and XFX PSU are rebranded Sasonic). Power usage calculation is tricky but most guides are based on the bottom of the barrel PSU. A good 550W can easily perform as well as a el cheapo 700W. Currently running slightly overclocked 980+i5+8GB+1ssd+1hdd on a 7 years old Seasonic 550W. Using online charts my system load is around 275-450W and most places would recommend nothing below a 700W for my setup. A system builder was saying the same thing especially given the PSU is 7 years old until he saw the PSU is a Seaonic.
Yotix Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Nvidia just shot themselves in the foot: Soon you'll have to register with email in order to be able to download drivers. (Not sure what they're planning. If they're like Microsoft, they'll require you to use an "Nvidia account" which they will lock for no reason and take months of phone calls to arrogant, incompetent, romanian Support people to unlock again. Then they'll create a horribly boring app store which uses the Nvidia Account, and because everyone hates the Nvidia Account and its support, start making it mandatory everywhere. If they're not quite that stupid, erm, why would they start asking for the email address?)
CGi Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Another PSU snob here. You can't go wrong with any of the brands listed by CGI but I am bias toward Seasonic as well because it's where the other big brands go to if they need to impress reviewers (many top Cosair and XFX PSU are rebranded Sasonic). Yep. But (atm) Corsair is no longer using Seasonic as base, but cheapo korean stuff, based on the old design making it look legit. Same what ASUS did with the caps on their graphic cards. -.-' Such a shame, because the prices do not reflect this change in quality. Power usage calculation is tricky but most guides are based on the bottom of the barrel PSU. A good 550W can easily perform as well as a el cheapo 700W. Currently running slightly overclocked 980+i5+8GB+1ssd+1hdd on a 7 years old Seasonic 550W. Using online charts my system load is around 275-450W and most places would recommend nothing below a 700W for my setup. A system builder was saying the same thing especially given the PSU is 7 years old until he saw the PSU is a Seaonic. Why a 700W PSU was recommended to you is rather simple. if your system, for one reason or another, needs alot of currency then it needs it fast and bigger PSUs usually have bigger caps, making a immidiate deliveries of big currencies possible. As a bad example: An extreme overclocked CPU goes from idle mode into OC mode, resulting in higher energy consumption and this energy is better there when it's needed. Or in short: Bigger PSUs have better reserves, resulting in less stressed hardware, making everything run a little smoother and last a little longer. it's all about being better safe then sorry, in case the worst case happens.
Thehunteroftruth Posted November 2, 2015 Author Posted November 2, 2015 I see thanks for the info. Is there another psu with a similar price that performs better? What about the case, should I change it too?
zzz72w3r Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 It's probably better you let people know what big brands are available in your location and at what price level. For example, Antec is probably the best value-for-money brand in terms of quality but where I currently am it's all local brands at those price points. For some reason local people at these budgets only want flashy cases with throw-in PSU that are usually crap.
CGi Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Why don't you save your money a while longer and wait for a time where prices are better, like after christmas?Then you may be able to get better stuff, maybe even at lower prices then what those parts cost now. if you're from Germany or can order from there, take a look at Alternate.if you're from America, know someone there or are otherwise able to order from there (w/o added taxes ^^), then i recommend NewEgg. Both are not the cheapest you can get, but at least the working conditions of their employees are not as bad as Amazon, so a little higher price for doing the right thing is never wrong.
MoonSpot Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Don't forget freesync(AMD) vs gsync(Nvida). May be an additional cost consideration either for the current upgrade or a future monitor. Gsync adds something like $100 dollars(USD) cost over Freesync for similar functions in similar product classes. Thus far green teams solution is said to yield better results by reviewers, but whether the marginal improvement from 1 offering over the other is worth the money is subjective. Furthermore Gsync monitors tend to have limited options for connectivity on top of their proprietary Gsync module on the monitor, where AMD is going through industry standards with manufacturers a lot more. I'm fairly sure I'm going red on my next upgrade as every time I look at nvidas cards prices I add $100 to it to account for their Gsync module on the monitor side. Certainly changes the cost to performance metric if you want that adaptive sync loven.
CGi Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 You're sadly one of a few who think things thru in such a detail.But don't forget: FreeSync still has it's problems ... which "may" be solved for when you switch to ATi.
ousnius Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 You're sadly one of a few who think things thru in such a detail. But don't forget: FreeSync still has it's problems ... which "may" be solved for when you switch to ATi. G-Sync still has problems as well. I'm using it myself. For instance, recording video with various software causes games to run at 5 fps, until you turn off G-Sync, then it runs at the normal fps again.
MoonSpot Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 You're sadly one of a few who think things thru in such a detail. But don't forget: FreeSync still has it's problems ... which "may" be solved for when you switch to ATi. Ah, but that is different from manufacturer to manufacturer of the monitor. Only thing to do is do the research prior to purchase for your cards target refresh rate and cross them off the list one by one. The Freesync able offerings appear to have been getting quite a bit better of late. I'm optimistic.
CGi Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 i have a FreeSync monitor myself and the low FpS problem is rather annoying for me as i tend to run games with super sampling AA (where HBM hels a ton). Virtual resolution i didn't even bother trying yet has i heard bad stuff about this in combo with FreeSync ... supports only DX9 games so far anyway, as it seems. So i thought its worth mentioning, if the thread author really considers buying a new monitor even tho his momentary monitor (most likely w/o any Free- or GSync) works just fine.
MoonSpot Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 i have a FreeSync monitor myself and the low FpS problem is rather annoying for me as i tend to run games with super sampling AA (where HBM hels a ton). Virtual resolution i didn't even bother trying yet has i heard bad stuff about this in combo with FreeSync ... supports only DX9 games so far anyway, as it seems. So i thought its worth mentioning, if the thread author really considers buying a new monitor even tho his momentary monitor (most likely w/o any Free- or GSync) works just fine. #necrocreeperbump With low fps compensation that crimson's added has your experience with your 1st gen freesync monitor experience improved?
CGi Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 #necrocreeperbump With low fps compensation that crimson's added has your experience with your 1st gen freesync monitor experience improved? Not that i could see a difference but if there is a difference then it's to subtle for me and on my hardware.
TenFootMidget Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Personally i've had both cards, I burnt out the 390 after 4 months of having it, pushing games too hard I guess. However i've had my 970 for nearly a year now, no issues whatsoever and I believe features that Nvidia provide, such as Geforce Experience and a big bonus for me, since I record, is shadowplay. By far the best recording software I've ever used, obviously only available to Nvidia cards. And i'm able to play fallout 4, skyrim, gta v in 4k, the lowest FPS i've ever had in any 3 of said games is around 20-25fps, in GTA V. Skyrim averages 40-50FPS for me, and with nearly 170 mods in NMM including ENB and many graphic overhauls, i'd say it's pretty darn good. But, if you are willing to wait and save up for the 980ti, that is your best option. I'm currently waiting for the new line-up to come out so I can see what there is, if nothing interests me i'm buying a 980ti.
fgambler Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 GPU is the only piece you shouldn't save money. Get the more powerful your money can buy, that's the best advice I can give.
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