The cannon ending of Skyrim's civil war?

[sammythesquirrel]

Search tuned up nothing so here goes: What do you think the canonical ending for Skyrim's civil war  is/should be, and why?

I have seen many arguments from both sides on other boards and i'd like opinions of people here, particularly since my own theory seems to be radically different than anyone else. so before i post said theory, lets have some discussion please.

 

[Epic Gamer Frey]

No one will win. The right way for it to end is the leace thing during the main quest. That way nobody can cry about the other side winning.

 

Though I do want the Stormcloaks to win. I hate the empire and the wimperials.

All I want is for Nords to be Nords again, ruling themselves and worshipping the Nordic gods instead of being northern imperials worshipping the "9 divines".

 

 

And Ulfric is a sexy Nord. Who wouldn't want him on the throne.

[Captain Cobra]

Doesn't matter, Thalmor won.

[Buddy Christ]

No one will win. The right way for it to end is the leace thing during the main quest. That way nobody can cry about the other side winning.

 

Though I do want the Stormcloaks to win. I hate the empire and the wimperials.

All I want is for Nords to be Nords again, ruling themselves and worshipping the Nordic gods instead of being northern imperials worshipping the "9 divines".

 

 

And Ulfric is a sexy Nord. Who wouldn't want him on the throne.

 

But Ulfric is just a puppet of the Thalmor!

And my Dunmer characters hate him for being a racist, thinking of the Nords as the Master Race.....

 

[Epic Gamer Frey]

 

 

No one will win. The right way for it to end is the leace thing during the main quest. That way nobody can cry about the other side winning.

 

Though I do want the Stormcloaks to win. I hate the empire and the wimperials.

All I want is for Nords to be Nords again, ruling themselves and worshipping the Nordic gods instead of being northern imperials worshipping the "9 divines".

 

 

And Ulfric is a sexy Nord. Who wouldn't want him on the throne.

But Ulfric is just a puppet of the Thalmor!

And my Dunmer characters hate him for being a racist, thinking of the Nords as the Master Race.....

 

The emperor and his "empire" are puppets of the Thalmor.

The Thalmor are playing everyone because the empire allows it.

 

Last time I did the Civil War as a Dunmer, she joined the Stormcloaks. She wanted to show the dark elves of the Grey Quarter (they don't deserve to be called Dunmer) that they have to earn the respect of the Nords, not just expect the Nords to like them. She hated the dark elves of the Grey Quarter.

[FauxFurry]

Going with the Truce reached in Season Unending would probably be the best course of action for Bethesda Softworks to take whenever they get around to Elder Scrolls 6.

[Allannaa]

In my world, the Stormcloaks should, and do, win.

 

They're a proud people.  For all they seem to be earth-germanic-norse, they remind me a lot of my own culture -- that of Scotland.  (Yes, Scotland allowed Britain to "take over", but let's face it, that was to get money, support, goodies, and whatnot at the expense of the Crown and save a penny.  And this is about Skyrim anyway!)

 

But the Sons of Skyrim love their land and their culture and each other -- and they even accept those non-Nords who want to be free, and who have guts enough to fight for that freedom.  The Stormcloaks don't hide behind convention and courtesy, and they don't bend their knees to invaders.

 

To me, the Empire is a perfect example of corruption and pandering.  Had the forces of the Empire actually harnessed the potential of Skyrim, then there's no way the Altmer could have imposed their religious beliefs on the rest of the Empire.  But rather than make concessions internally when the war had dragged on to increasingly unsustainable levels, the Emperor sold his people out.

 

The high elves are powerful?  Sure.  But everyone sleeps.  Make nice at the Dark Brotherhood.  That's cheaper in the long run.

 

The Thalmor believe that no man can reach godhood?  The gods themselves say otherwise.  Let the Thalmor believe what they like, and ignore their insistence that Talos wasn't ascended.  If they start shit over it, slit their throats.

 

The Altmer impose an uneasy peace through totalitarianism, torture, and violation of rights, and when someone protests, they resort to their magic and their swords to enforce their beliefs and choices.  But they're not invincible, and they bleed just like everyone else.

 

Once they're gone from Skyrim, it won't take long for the rest of the Empire to realise that they, too, can throw off the yoke of High Elven slavery.

 

And as long as one Stormcloak draws breath, then Skyrim will be free.

[CovertDemon]

Doesn't matter, Thalmor won.

Pretty much the only logical ending. Even if the Legion wins the civil war, the Thalmor will still curbstomp them. They already did it once, they will be capable of doing it twice.

[Jexsam]

Assuming we accept the other guild questlines as canon, my guess is the Stormcloaks will win, but it won't amount to much.

 

It's been three goddamn years since the game came out so I'm just going to say SPOILER WARNING here but not put it all in spoilers because fuck that.

 

The Dark Brotherhood questline culminates in the major event that I think tilts everything in Ulfric's favor - Titus Mede II, Emperor and the man that led the most successful campaign against the Thalmor before the end of the Great War, is assassinated without even putting up a fight. The only figurehead the Empire could have really rallied under was just a burnt out old man, and is dead now to boot. The Empire itself may stagger on as an entity, but the internal issues caused by this assassination coupled with the already strained position of the Empire will cause morale to plummet and likely cause some increased disorganization as everyone scrambles in the aftermath.

 

The Stormcloaks capitalize on this, push any remaining Imperial influence out of Skyrim, and hit a brick wall as it turns out they don't have the resources or manpower to actually take the fight to the Thalmor. So instead they opt for the ol' Russian technique - live in a cold-ass place and hope the enemy is dumb enough not to retreat as winter sets in.

 

With any luck, Ulfric will get deposed shortly after becoming High King and replace by someone just as passionate but considerably more moderate. Ulfric's the general the Stormcloaks need right now, but just doesn't have all the qualities needed of a leader capable of running all the aspects of a fledgling kingdom. One hold isn't the same as running a whole province... He's a racist fuck, to boot.

 

My head-canon has my Dragonborn forcing Ulfric out of the throne. Being the closest thing to Talos presently on Nirn, rallying the Nords behind her banner will be a cinch. And when Ulfric inevitably asks "Why should I?" Kallista will give him three big, winged, fire-breathing reasons...

[White Divinity]

I believe the empire should win, that way they will have a chance against the thalmor..

 

Plus, most Nords are racists mo**erf**kers, they want skyrim for them and no other, the stormcloak winning the fight is like giving the thalmor skyrim, because Ulfric will die soon after winning and skyrim will have no king + manpower to fight.

[Epic Gamer Frey]

 

 

Is the main reason I hate Tullius.

[ao2thend]

The way I see it going down is neither side gets recognition for winning because within months, maybe years from the time of the civil war, the Thalmor are going to start a second war.  This time, they will decimate the Legion, and take over most of Tamriel.  Skyrim and Hammerfell might hold out for awhile, but eventually they too will fall.  Of course that's when the Thalmor leadership is going to get complacent, which will lead to revolt and eventually culminate into an all out bloodbath that ends with all sides decimated, clinging onto what semblance of order they can, which is when TES6 will probably occur.   

 

That's how I see Bethesda doing it, because they can't really go out and say one side or the other won because it depends on what quests you do. The game's very cannon contradicts itself.   The only way to fix that issue is to make it so neither side is recorded in history as winning because the second war of the Thalmor essentially erases it from history.  

[Thelios]

The Dragonborn ultimately rules Skyrim.  Any other High King and Jarls are only in position because the Dragonborn allows it, and the Emperor as well for that matter.  The Thalmor, Empire, Stormcloaks, Blades etc. all answer to the Dragonborn whether they like it or not.  As Jexsam pointed out, the Dragonborn has three additional reasons that they all will listen to and heed.

[Jaravaya]

My two cents at the moment are :

- Ulfric betrayed "the way of the voice" by using it's power on king Torygg (arguable though, between nords... but the account of the scene by Elisif and the former guard to be executed in Solitude are leading me to the conclusion that this was kind of sucker punch from Ulfric)

- Ulfric committed atrocities in Markarth, antagonizing a whole faction of otherwise moderate dudes, pushing them in the arms of the daedra and the practice of the old ways (or were the forsworn practicing that before? That isn't clear to me)

- Ulfric dragged the Thalmor into skyrim by forcing the empire to grant him the right of worshiping Talos. He and he alone inflicted this war on his own people because... Identity crisis?

- Because he wanted vengeance against the Thalmor for the betrayal he was the victim during the war (remember, he used to work for those guys) Basically, he dragged the whole population of skyrim into war to solve a personnal matter.

- Talos... is a man. A hero maybe, but not a god and the Greybeards exist only because the nords failled the gods by worshiping man before, they were punished (battle of the red mountain) and Yorgen Windcaller founded the temple in High Rothgar because the power of the voice is not inherant to mankind but a gift from Akatosh and Kinareth. Will the gods let mankind try to foul them twice?

- Wich explain why the Thalmor consider the worship of Talos an heresy. Of course, those guys are like the nazi of Tamriel and therefore not the best people to handle the situation with calm and assertiveness. Saddly they lose their way as well and their methods only increase defiance and antagonism.

- The empire is left with a mess they can't really handle by their own because they grew soft, with a clumsy corrupted administration and a tendencie to overthink everything and solve nothing, maybe to busy waiting for the gods to save the day.

- Wich leads us to the Dragonborn. Yep, we are the gift from the gods to mortals! LOL, jokes on them, we are worthless. Nevertheless, the dragonborn has to solve the equation and the whole thing comes down to following the way of the voice and let the gods decide of the fate of the Thalmor, or not and let the Thalmor decide of the fate of men. Note that the gods are a bit out of choice : they have to relay on a mortal to enforce their religion and actually have no way to control him/her. They are pretty fucked.

 

So who should win? And what shall be the futur?

The Stormcloacks are passionate people. In my book, that makes them perfect candidate for defeat. That army won't hold on the long run, especially against the Thalmor, aspecially if the gods decide to forsaken them for using their power in a wrong way.

 

 

The Stormcloaks capitalize on this, push any remaining Imperial influence out of Skyrim, and hit a brick wall as it turns out they don't have the resources or manpower to actually take the fight to the Thalmor. So instead they opt for the ol' Russian technique - live in a cold-ass place and hope the enemy is dumb enough not to retreat as winter sets in.

 

 

That would be clever, I don't believe the Stormcloacks are (they are passionate, very... passionate). They believe in the power of the nords, the way the Thalmor believe in the power of the elves. Ultimatly, they will try their luck and fall apart.

 

My guess : Futur is chaos. Mankind is left without strong leadership, the Thalmor are turning their own backs to the gods and start worshiping their own evil nostrils, the Daedra are worshipped everywhere out of desperation and a big guy with a gigantic sword start killing men made monsters... mmmh. That would make a good sequel, I am sure no one though about that before!

[Epic Gamer Frey]

My two cents at the moment are :

- Ulfric betrayed "the way of the voice" by using it's power on king Torygg (arguable though, between nords... but the account of the scene by Elisif and the former guard to be executed in Solitude are leading me to the conclusion that this was kind of sucker punch from Ulfric)

Jurgen Windcaller Betrayed the Nords by creating "the way of the voice." Taking their most powerful weapon and using it to worship Kyne. which  the Greybeards now call Kynareth, so the greybeards are the ones who betrayed Jurgen's "Way of the voice" by worshipping an imperial god.

 

 

- Ulfric committed atrocities in Markarth, antagonizing a whole faction of otherwise moderate dudes, pushing them in the arms of the daedra and the practice of the old ways (or were the forsworn practicing that before? That isn't clear to me)

Forsworn (Reachmen) did that way before the Stormcloaks drove them out of Markarth.

 

 

- Ulfric dragged the Thalmor into skyrim by forcing the empire to grant him the right of worshiping Talos. He and he alone inflicted this war on his own people because... Identity crisis?

Ulfric didn't force the empire to grant him the right to worship Talos. The Jarl of Markarth gave him the right to worship talos, but once the Thalmor found out, they threatened the empire and forced them to outlaw worship of Talos. Now the Thalmor are free to kill any Nord they want just by claiming they are Talos worshippers. With the empire gone, the Thalmor can't freely murder Nords.

The Markarth Incident is what caused the Stormcloak Rebellion.

 

- Because he wanted vengeance against the Thalmor for the betrayal he was the victim during the war (remember, he used to work for those guys) Basically, he dragged the whole population of skyrim into war to solve a personnal matter.

 

"I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil. I fight for their wives and children, who's names I heard whispered in their last breaths. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing. I fight... because I must." - Ulfric Stormcloak

 

- Talos... is a man. A hero maybe, but not a god and the Greybeards exist only because the nords failled the gods by worshiping man before, they were punished (battle of the red mountain) and Yorgen Windcaller founded the temple in High Rothgar because the power of the voice is not inherant to mankind but a gift from Akatosh and Kinareth. Will the gods let mankind try to foul them twice?

Talos is a God. Blood of a Divine was needed in TES IV: Oblivion. His armour was used.

 

 

TES Lore = Crazy as fuck.  I love it.

[XJ347]

I know what happens.

 

Ulfric asks Thalmor for help, and the Thalmor then are the saviors of Skyrim... The Thalmor then politically force the Imperials out of Skyrim. Skyrim then gets its freedom under the protection of the Aldamari Dominion... as long as they admit Tiber Septum was a man!

 

The Aldamari Dominion gets everything they want. They weaken the Empire, and force the Stormcloaks to opening denying Tiber Septum. Win Win for them never having to actually enter the war.

[Epic Gamer Frey]

I know what happens.

 

Ulfric asks Thalmor for help, and the Thalmor then are the saviors of Skyrim... The Thalmor then politically force the Imperials out of Skyrim. Skyrim then gets its freedom under the protection of the Aldamari Dominion... as long as they admit Tiber Septum was a man!

 

The Aldamari Dominion gets everything they want. They weaken the Empire, and force the Stormcloaks to opening denying Tiber Septum. Win Win for them never having to actually enter the war.

 

The Thalmor want to destroy man and end the world. They don't want to rule it.

 

Major spoiler:

 

From what I've read.... According to MK, the Thalmor win in the end.

 

[XJ347]

 

 

Is the main reason I hate Tullius.

 

Last I checked most of Skyrim was lawless and barbaric outside the cities. So seems like Tullius is right, since his troops are to busy killing ungrateful racist hicks and not pushing bandits out of Skyrim. 

 

 

[Epic Gamer Frey]

 

Last I checked most of Skyrim was lawless and barbaric outside the cities. So seems like Tullius is right, since his troops are to busy killing ungrateful racist hicks and not pushing bandits out of Skyrim.

 

Cyrodiil is having it's fair share of barbarism and lawlessness.

Skooma Lords have taken over Bravil.

[XJ347]

The Thalmor want to destroy man and end the world. They don't want to rule it.

 

You are right, they don't want to rule the world. If they did, they would just continue the war... /cough and win.

 

The Thalmor only wants to make sure they are left alone by weakening anyone they view as threats. So they have been sabotaging the Empire any chance they get, like by putting pressure on Skyrim to leave the Empire. Totally is a Thalmor plot!

 

Now saying that, Thalmor wanting to end the world? That is crazy talk! The Aldamari Dominion would change leadership away from the Thalmor if they wanted to destroy the world. The Khajiit and Bosmer would out vote the Altmer if that was the case... Are there individuals inside the Thalmor who are crazy? Sure, but individuals isn't the same thing as the group as a whole.

 

Then again I see the Thalmor as the good guys, they just have bad PR in Skyrim since both sides hate them.

[Jaravaya]

 

Major spoiler:

From what I've read.... According to MK, the Thalmor win in the end.

That shouldn't count as a victory if it is purely accidental though

 

 

There so many things going on, the frame is so dense... oops, wrong forum.

 

 

Then again I see the Thalmor as the good guys, they just have bad PR in Skyrim since both sides hate them.

 

The good guys lied about the causes AND the resolve of the oblivion crisis. Reminds me someone... mmmh... Don't ! Just.. don't.

[Epic Gamer Frey]

 

The Thalmor want to destroy man and end the world. They don't want to rule it.

 

You are right, they don't want to rule the world. If they did, they would just continue the war... /cough and win.

 

The Thalmor only wants to make sure they are left alone by weakening anyone they view as threats. So they have been sabotaging the Empire any chance they get, like by putting pressure on Skyrim to leave the Empire. Totally is a Thalmor plot!

 

Now saying that, Thalmor wanting to end the world? That is crazy talk! The Aldamari Dominion would change leadership away from the Thalmor if they wanted to destroy the world. The Khajiit and Bosmer would out vote the Altmer if that was the case... Are there individuals inside the Thalmor who are crazy? Sure, but individuals isn't the same thing as the group as a whole.

 

Then again I see the Thalmor as the good guys, they just have bad PR in Skyrim since both sides hate them.

 

 

The Aldmeri Dominion are the "good guy Elves", but the Thalmor are evil.

Their ultimate goal is to unmake Mundus.

 

 

Here's some stuff about the Thalmor and Old Mary's Dominion.

Barely any info, but it should be enough to know they aren't the good guys.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thalmor

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aldmeri_Dominion

 

Khajiit see the Elves as their saviours because... http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Void_Nights

 

To unmake Mundus, the Thalmor need to destroy.... http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Towers

 

 

Edit: Oh and the Elves basically view Shor/Lorkhan as the devil.

[Jexsam]

 

Major spoiler:

 

 

From what I've read.... According to MK, the Thalmor win in the end.

 

 

That shouldn't count as a victory if it is purely accidental though

 

Well since their goal is to unmake creation, then a win for them would simply be the end of the world. It doesn't have to be them necessarily that accomplishes it - merely that it is accomplished would mean their goal is achieved.

 

Kirkbride is an abstract motherfucker so you can't really interpret things wholly as they appear at first glance. From the AMA I'm looking at to sauce this info, "Michael has a way with words that will wrap your head around a telephone pole."

[afa]

It will likely not be address as Imperial won or Stormcloak won in the next game, since that decision is up to the player. Wonder if the next game is going to take place at a time after the event of Skyrim also. Even if it does there are enough leeway for it to go in any direction it needs, I doubt even Beth has it all figured out I mean even the whole how Skyrim should be and the whole "we want dragon in this game!" is stuff that they chose to adapt to and add into the game rather than something set in stone from the past.

 

To keep the status quo of variety I doubt any one faction will get to take over completely, unless the point of the next game is the overthrown of whoever that's in charge.

[teitogun]

I'm surprised at how relatively peaceful and civil Nord society in Skyrim is compared with actual Danish/Norwegian society of the early medieval period. They remind me of modern Swedes more so than the Vikings.

 

As for who won in the end? I'd say Maven.