Giving up on MO

[cretin]

Some background; I had a very stable NMM + Wrye Bash + BOSS setup with 300+ mods and a launch-day savegame.  I decided to invest the time to port over to Mod Organizer for the additional benefits that I was hearing about.

 

I learned a lot through several days of installing and tweaking mods, and generally coming to understand MO.  Ultimately I decided to bail on it.

 

* "Too fiddly"

Ironically, MO becomes just too fiddly, when any independent patcher or tool has to be launched from MO.  In theory it sounds simple.  In practice, these tools get incredibly confused when they expect to see some dll or ini or logfile that you've left in your Overwrite mod.  I spend a lot more fiddly time in MO than I ever did in NMM and Wrye Bash.

 

* The Overwrite mod

Seriously.  You have to pick and choose from the overwrite mod and shove stuff into it every time you look at MO funny.  I get the 'why' of it, but it's just an extra step that is a pain in the ass compared to a native Data workflow.

 

* Inconsistency

For some reason, two consecutive launches of a game from MO can either CTD, or not CTD.  This inconsistency I suspect is related to how MO folds the mods into the virtual list to present to Skyrim, or how arbitrary the LOOT order seems to be, but it drove me crazy.  This ultimately was the straw that broke the camel's back, that I couldn't point to one mod to say "This is the problem."   It's just random whether it works or not.  All conflicts looked clean.  I would find a load order that resulted in a perfectly solid game, back up that load order-- but then load, play, save, quit, and reload -- instant CTD.  Or not.

 

I had some success by defining BOSS as the mod sorter from within MO, but it was still a crapshoot.

 

Ultimately MO seems to be nice if you're nowhere near maxing out your mods, or if you keep to a set of very stable and known mods from the Nexus.  If you're working with all kinds of crap, sometimes it's best to stick it in native Data and let it sit.  Basically, it comes down to:

 

NMM + Wrye Bash can be a pain, but once it's stable, it's stable.  Mods don't move from where they are.  And in spite of what people say, both tools are pretty good at maintaining an asset history.

MO is a world of pain until you can find the sweet spot where it's stable, but then you launch it again (or run LOOT again) and you just have to start troubleshooting all over again.

So I'm back to NMM, Wrye Bash and BOSS (I had a full backup just in case), and now I'm solid.

 

[Jayce Dimmer]

I've found the reverse to be true. After installing six or seven mods traditionally, my Data folder might as well be trash.

 

Also, why the ruddy 'ell would you use BOSS and LOOT? I've had nothing but CTDs and crashes at the main screen when I use 'em to sort my plugins. Do that stuff manually; TES5Edit is your friend.

 

I also fail to see how clicking seven times to add an executable is finicky. You only need to do it once.

[ao2thend]

If you think Mod Organizer is bad on Skyrim, then you haven't tried it with something else like Fallout New Vegas.  I tried to get it working because everything online says its possible but after a day of setting it up and an hour of playing, it stopped being able to load the 4GB loader for FNV and after I tried every supposed fix to get it working, it still didn't work.  Other versions didn't work, then it wouldn't even load up any of the Fallout launchers at all.  I am now using FOMM because MO cannot run FNV like its advertised to. 

 

Its alright if you use Skyrim, but its like you said, tons of work checking, rechecking, and fixing stuff when you'd already be playing if you were using NMM.   The ONLY reason to use MO is for the profiles.  That's it.

 

In my opinion, MO is over hyped, its user base overestimates its capabilities and its far less effective then advertised and far more complicated then it should be.  

[Guest IAmTheOneWhoKnocks]

If you think Mod Organizer is bad on Skyrim, then you haven't tried it with something else like Fallout New Vegas. 

 

Man, try getting it going with Oblivion!

It took me so long to work out that you need to select the profile you want in MO, close MO and then launch Oblivion through steam otherwise it doesn't detect your profiles.

[GodSmack]

im indifferent about them to be honest, they both have their faults and there pros.

 

MO has WAY more options than NMM does and is somewhat more advanced in terms of installation, order control, and organization, now if only they worked right there wouldnt be a problem.

 

however NMM has the user friendly interface with easy to understand steps to installation for new users, yet once you hit 100+ mods your only 2 options are to uninstall every mod one by one, or just nuke your skyrim and reinstall, also you require the help of other programs that are not built into the MM which in the long run just take up more space

 

the only reason i am using MO is the extremely easy/fast installation process, and conflict detection (which at this point blows) 

[cretin]

I also fail to see how clicking seven times to add an executable is finicky. You only need to do it once.

 

But it's not *really* just the once.  How many times have you had to re-launch MO because GenerateFNISForUsers.exe gave you a 2033 error, because you left its scraps in the Overwrite mod?  Ugh.  (And hey, maybe your answer is 'zero', but that one plagues me).

 

Or UNP TexBlend?  Forget about it.  I had to roll my own SG Textures + Bella by faking TexBlend out to get something that worked.  (But admittedly, now I'm glad I did, because I have a pretty sweet body + face kit with no seams now)

[Jayce Dimmer]

 

 

But it's not *really* just the once.  How many times have you had to re-launch MO because GenerateFNISForUsers.exe gave you a 2033 error, because you left its scraps in the Overwrite mod?  Ugh.  (And hey, maybe your answer is 'zero', but that one plagues me).

 

Or UNP TexBlend?  Forget about it.  I had to roll my own SG Textures + Bella by faking TexBlend out to get something that worked.  (But admittedly, now I'm glad I did, because I have a pretty sweet body + face kit with no seams now)

 

 

Yeah, it really is just once. Just don't put mods in your Data folder; make a new folder in "Mod Organizer\mods" and place them in there. Problem solved.

 

Not used TexBlend. Never needed to.

[GodSmack]

 

I also fail to see how clicking seven times to add an executable is finicky. You only need to do it once.

 

But it's not *really* just the once.  How many times have you had to re-launch MO because GenerateFNISForUsers.exe gave you a 2033 error, because you left its scraps in the Overwrite mod?  Ugh.  (And hey, maybe your answer is 'zero', but that one plagues me).

 

Or UNP TexBlend?  Forget about it.  I had to roll my own SG Textures + Bella by faking TexBlend out to get something that worked.  (But admittedly, now I'm glad I did, because I have a pretty sweet body + face kit with no seams now)

 

 when i first used MO, i did have the error 53 with creatures and all that fun stuff and it did end up taking me the whole day to fix what i could have done in 5 mins, epic face palm moment

 

after that i just mad one overwrite mod to hold all overwrites and i really havent had issues since, i get what you mean with it not being exactly friendly FNIS and other outside executable, infact now i even have issues with my skyrim due to priority changes that i still need to make.

 

however if u are using race menu, the neck seam can be easily fixed by using this http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/50329/?

[cretin]

 

 

 

But it's not *really* just the once.  How many times have you had to re-launch MO because GenerateFNISForUsers.exe gave you a 2033 error, because you left its scraps in the Overwrite mod?  Ugh.  (And hey, maybe your answer is 'zero', but that one plagues me).

 

Or UNP TexBlend?  Forget about it.  I had to roll my own SG Textures + Bella by faking TexBlend out to get something that worked.  (But admittedly, now I'm glad I did, because I have a pretty sweet body + face kit with no seams now)

 

 

Yeah, it really is just once. Just don't put mods in your Data folder; make a new folder in "Mod Organizer\mods" and place them in there. Problem solved.

 

Not used TexBlend. Never needed to.

 

 

Well, your answer is a bit confusing, as that's how MO works.  I only ever launched GenerateFNIS from MO.  The problem was that aforementioned "file already exists" error in GenerateFNIS.  I could not get past that error with a clean Data directory unless I stuck the FNIS tools into the actual Data folder.  That took a full day of searching for a clue, trial and error.  But then it required an Overwrite mod update every time you run it, regardless of whether it made changes or not, or it would choke with the "file already exists" error.

 

All of the above is when launching the tool from MO.  I never use anything outside of MO, but in spite of Gopher's tutorial the SkyProccer tools, FNIS, and texture blending tools simply don't consistently work from MO with an enormous number of mods.  Caveat:  for me.

[XJ347]

Hmmm well I am going to have to agree to disagree.

 

MO makes things more stable by allowing you to easily manage the install order, and see what is conflicting. Yes you have to do some extra work to use executables, but they DO work and just dump the data into the overwrite folder. FNIS has to be run just as much with NMM and MO, If you move FNIS overwrite files into a mod folder then you can easily swap between profiles without needed to active FNIS between switches.

 

I found things are only unstable in MO

1. If you are trying to use a previous save from outside MO with MO (probably has script fragments and nothing to do with MO),
2. Updating MO from an ancient version of MO.
3. Bad install order of mods (which is EASILY fixed by altering the priority of the mod) Lazy way of fixing this is to use Loot, Then click the alert button and select potential mod order and hit fix. I manually set my priority personally.

 

The ONLY thing MO can't do well in Skyrim is the creation kit... If you are altering mods in the CK then MO is a problem. Apparently for some Tex blend too, but I haven't used that tool.

 

So overall I appreciate the perks of MO over its problems. To each their own though...

 

 

 

[cretin]

To each their own though...

 

That's cool, I'm just offering my experience and don't really mean to state an absolute.  Admittedly I'm not approaching it the right way, as I'm trying to port a very heavily-invested set of mods into MO (and it didn't help that the NMM Import function was a complete bust, and installed many outdated mods that were left over from updates).

 

I see MO as another useful weapon in the arsenal of making Bethesda games do stuff they weren't designed to do.  But I do think it's just a bit overhyped as a panacea, when you're much better off using it if you have a clean slate to begin with.

 

But I don't think it automatically invalidates a well-established NMM + Wrye Bash workflow, not at all.  Wrye Bash profiles are nearly as good (although they don't dig into meshes and textures per se), and it's much easier to manage bashed patches and proccer mods with it.

[Guest]

I've got my problems with MO, you've covered a few of my niggles but I've got others. But in the end the pros vastly outweigh the negatives, especially when we're talking about NMM.

 

To be honest most of us ported a 'heavily-invested set of mods', I spent weeks, nay months, trying to get my beloved setup working right and  I'm still tweaking. But there's a definite pain wall you go through with MO, after a while it's foibles just become background and the workflow stops seeming clunky or awkward.

 

I say you should have stuck with it longer, but your choice man. 

[...0...]

Some background; I had a very stable NMM + Wrye Bash + BOSS setup with 300+ mods and a launch-day savegame.  I decided to invest the time to port over to Mod Organizer for the additional benefits that I was hearing about.

 

I learned a lot through several days of installing and tweaking mods, and generally coming to understand MO.  Ultimately I decided to bail on it.

 

* "Too fiddly"

Ironically, MO becomes just too fiddly, when any independent patcher or tool has to be launched from MO.  In theory it sounds simple.  In practice, these tools get incredibly confused when they expect to see some dll or ini or logfile that you've left in your Overwrite mod.  I spend a lot more fiddly time in MO than I ever did in NMM and Wrye Bash.

 

* The Overwrite mod

Seriously.  You have to pick and choose from the overwrite mod and shove stuff into it every time you look at MO funny.  I get the 'why' of it, but it's just an extra step that is a pain in the ass compared to a native Data workflow.

 

* Inconsistency

For some reason, two consecutive launches of a game from MO can either CTD, or not CTD.  This inconsistency I suspect is related to how MO folds the mods into the virtual list to present to Skyrim, or how arbitrary the LOOT order seems to be, but it drove me crazy.  This ultimately was the straw that broke the camel's back, that I couldn't point to one mod to say "This is the problem."   It's just random whether it works or not.  All conflicts looked clean.  I would find a load order that resulted in a perfectly solid game, back up that load order-- but then load, play, save, quit, and reload -- instant CTD.  Or not.

 

I had some success by defining BOSS as the mod sorter from within MO, but it was still a crapshoot.

 

Ultimately MO seems to be nice if you're nowhere near maxing out your mods, or if you keep to a set of very stable and known mods from the Nexus.  If you're working with all kinds of crap, sometimes it's best to stick it in native Data and let it sit.  Basically, it comes down to:

 

NMM + Wrye Bash can be a pain, but once it's stable, it's stable.  Mods don't move from where they are.  And in spite of what people say, both tools are pretty good at maintaining an asset history.

MO is a world of pain until you can find the sweet spot where it's stable, but then you launch it again (or run LOOT again) and you just have to start troubleshooting all over again.

So I'm back to NMM, Wrye Bash and BOSS (I had a full backup just in case), and now I'm solid.

 

U use 253 mods thats about max skyrim can handle. I use NMM and never had any problems even before the memory patch by sheson.

 

I will not say don't use MO but majority here say use MO because NMM sucks or MO is alot better well for me it's not.

 

Have stable games as long as i can remember and no fuss at all with NMM as you said when mods installed it stay there and no conflics. Even after start using LOOT it became better.

 

But i know what im doing and do a lot manually plus what mods do and which ones give trouble or over ride a lot.

 

Some like MO others NMM use what you like and feel good with.

 

I have also patience and time to perfect my game so for me using NMM is no big deal.

 

[gvman3670]

That isn't at all what my experience has been.

[RitualClarity]

The bottom line is you need to understand the tool you use. I used NMM and MO for Skyrim. I never could get NMM to work.. That is correct. Now for the background. I didn't know the mods I was using and thus I was making critical mistakes. Now I do know the mods and what is going on so I am sure I could get NMM to work well as well now. I am not sure how to work Wyre bash. That isn't the fault of WyreBash that is my fault for not understanding how it works to get the full advantage of the tools and features it has. I am sure that even with such a mature manager as WyreBash if someone don't know what they are doing they can seriously screw something up.

 

I use MO. Mo was a pain. Still is a pain.. but not to load or get to work. It is a pain to figure out how I want to load and configure all those wonderful options and control over the files. There is a thread here on LL that other that use MO heavily even for Fallout ( possibly even for Oblivion but that one is harder I hear). They are fully able to talk in depth and help anyone that has the patience understand and get some of the advanced features working. Bottom line MO is a powerful mod manager however also requires more understanding of the mods and what you want to do to get the manager to work well ( generally).

 

My advise is to use the mod manager that you are comfortable with provided it works for your needs. Don't matter if it is OBMM for Oblivion FOMM for Fallout and NMM for Skyrim. NMM for all of them, or for that matter WyreBash and other combinations provided you are able to understand and get the results you desire. Really mod managers are there to "manage mods" not cook you breakfast afterwards .

[Rayblue]

It's always been a rule of thumb -- regardless of any mod manager -- is to back up the vanilla Data directory before messing around with mods. Within MO, it takes pretty much of careful understanding how and what happens if one mod overwrites another in the mod list stack, and certain combinations of mods may or may not work.

 

Don't call MO overhyped, it actually works and keeps the Data directory clean, but it demands exacting study on the part of the player-user, as he/she must get hands dirty and tinker under the hood.

[RitualClarity]

This might help those that might desire using MO. It is a link to Gohper's videos r/t MO. He also has one for NMM.

 

To give you the level of complexity and power of Mo there are 10 videos to one video for NMM. MO is as Rayblue states for some individuals that are willing to "get their hands dirty and tinker under the hood".

[gvman3670]

I don't mind tearing mods apart, changing what I need, maybe adding a couple into one folder, then zipping them up and installing them into MO. It happens, and it also happens to teach you proper folder structure and other things about the game.

 

I started a brand new profile yesterday and it took a matter of maybe 15-20 minutes to activate the mods I wanted (of the 300 I have installed and added 4 more today), hash out the overwrites I wanted/needed, set the ini's, run LOOT, run FNIS and launch a whole new character. And it all worked flawlessly.

 

MO isn't being overhyped at all. OP, if you brought a dirty save or data folder over to MO then therein lies your problem. It really IS best to start with a clean and fresh install. And everyone who suggests MO will tell you this. But you can still bring those old game saves over if you really want to. I could tell you how and it's no more than dragging and dropping.