SexCrime

[afa]

1) Do you think crime severity should be adjustable on a hold-by-hold basis? (eg: allow user to make nudity fine in riften but misdemeanour in solitude)

 

2) Do you think the bounty for each crime severity level should be adjustable on a hold-by-hold basis? (eg. allow user to make nudity misdemeanour fine cost 10 gold in whiterun but 100 gold in windhelm)

 

3) Do you think the definition of nudity should be adjustable on a hold-by-hold basis? (eg. allow user to make exposed breasts illegal in winterhold, but ok in riften, so long as the crotch is covered)

 

4) I'm considering adding in functionality so that the player can make certain actions crimes without making them something that the citizens actually care about. Specifically, they could choose whether any citizen would report the player for the crime, or if only guards would bother. Should this be adjustable on a hold-by-hold basis? (eg. player can set it so that citizens in dawnstar don't care about your homosexuality, but the guards will still be forced to report you. Go to Solitude, however, and every citizen is a homophobe.)

 

5) I plan on dramatically enhancing the framework's definition of a 'public area'. The plan is to make it so that All exterior cells that are in or near a city or town will be public. All interior cells will be private by default, but users will be able to set the following interiors as public:

• Castles / Palaces / Places where Jarls live.
• Barracks / Forts / Military Camps.
• Temples.
• Guild Halls.
• Inns / Taverns.
• Shops

1. Yes

2. Maybe? 1 already let the user define the level of the crime in each hold, this one seems to just adjust the bounty level. There seems to be some overlap between the two. If I want say Solitude to be harsher against X I can just bump up its level to the point where the bounty is 100 rather than 10. But I can see how it does allow for more flexibility. So yes if it isn't too difficult for you do do.

3. Yes

4. Yes if you think it is possible. Besides civilian and guards I am thinking something along the line of a gender check (say men might not report a female PC for being naked ) also relationship and morality, but those two are sort of unreliable in the game or does not offers much variety.

5. Yes that would be interesting, also I am not sure if the law should be enforce in the wilderness or should it only be enforce while PC is near an open cities or town or within a Hold's gate for the closed cities.

 

 

 -Can you add customization per race? This way you can nicely roleplay the civil war, for example make very discriminating laws for argonians, khajiits and dunmer in windhelm, nords in solitude etc. .

 

For the forseeable future, this framework will apply to the player character only, so this idea is entirely unnecessary. It is a long-term goal to somehow extend the functionality to make it feel like the laws apply to civilians and followers, but I've not even begun thinking about how I plan to deal with this -- the amount of work required is daunting. I might revisit this specific idea down the road, but for now I'm going to shelf it.

 

You have just given me an idea for another scanner though: make it a crime to have interracial sex, or make it a crime to have sex with one or more specific race(s). I might implement this depending on how much interest it gets.

 

-Make wearing clothes also a crime. So if i join the thieves guild and try to establish it in Skyrim i can roleplay then that the guards enforce a nudity law for outsiders to combat crime, similiar for dark brotherhood to make hiding weapons more difficult.

 

"Make wearing clothes a crime" -- I've seen this suggestion before, and I am torn on the issue. It wouldn't be difficult to implement a scanner that checks for clothedness, but at this stage I wonder if the SexCrime framework should only concern itself with real-life crimes. I might implement this at some stage. Even if I don't implement this as an obvious part of SexCrime, if a modder working on something that requires it -- such as Slaverun -- were to specifically request the feature, then I would probably work towards a good compromise.

 

Actually, my main issue with this feature isn't that it's not 'realistic' (fuck realism), it's that a law should be applied to all of the Jarl's subjects. Even though this framework doesn't explicitly effect civilians, it is easy to imagine that they would be punished if they just went around fucking in the middle of the street. As soon as you make it illegal to be naked then you have to start wondering why none of the other citizens seem to care about the law.

 

Once again: if this feature is requested enough, or specifically requested by a modder for use in their project, I'll do it. Until then I'm not really interested.

 

-Make wearing no slave items a crime. So you could force players that they need to wear a gag, armbinder/cuffs and a blindfold to be allowed to enter a hold. Would be very handy for extremely corrupt and misognystic holds like falkreath or slaverun.

-Make wearing a chastity belt a crime. Would also be very handy for extremely corrupt and misognystic holds like falkreath or slaverun.

 

I have similar objections to these as I did to enforced nudity -- which is to say that my gut reaction is to say no, but it wouldn't take much for me to change my mind. In addition to those objections, I don't want to make devious devices (or whatever) a requirement for installing this framework, so I'd need to come up with some work around.

 

Don't be disheartened by this though: I should be able to create an API and a custom clothing tag that other modders can use to create this law for themselves.

 

The nudity law currently is only an issue with Slaverun and Slaverun Enforcer, but with the ability to change the law in Whiterun there shouldn't be any conflict between this mod and them as long as the user switch off the law for Whiterun.

What could be more interesting with clothed being illegal is to expand SexCrime to be a framework for Slaverun and Slaverun Enforcer to call upon when changing the law, however the user will have to know not to fuss with the menu of SexCrime unless they know what they are doing. The hold to hold framework could potentially be useful if mods similar to Slaverun get expand to other holds, which as far as I know non exist yet sadly.

Stripping NPCs will need to be handle by something similar to Slaverun Enforcer.

Right now I don't think there's enough mod out there that can take advantage of a clothed being illegal function...but is this going to be one of those which one should exist first question?

 

The follower crime expansion sounds daunting, but very exciting however!

[geo29]

I like the MCM menu structure in Trade and Barter http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/34612/?. It allows you to leave things as defaut for all races or holds or set custom rates. A similar structure could work here.

 

What I would love to see is a situation that ties sexcrime monitoring with paycrime and arousal and sex skill. 

For example - let's say it's a minor crime to be topless in Riften, and if a guard sees you they might accept a blowjob instead of gold as a bribe if their arousal is above a threshold. If the PC has low skill at oral, maybe they then ask for other sex in addition. In Windhelm, maybe they ask for a monetary bribe only and don't ask for sexual favors unless they have very high arousal.

 

Same applies to public sex- let's say it's a more serious crime. In Riften, maybe guards will accost, rape and then imprison an offender, whereas in Windhelm they might just imprison you. 

 

Also, maybe public sex in the middle of the Bee and Barb in Riften is fine, whereas in the Bannered Mare it might not be. Maybe the Innkeeper requires a bribe (gold or sex) to not report it if it is a minor crime.

 

[Zydar]

For anyone who is interested in a hold-by-hold customization system, I have a little questionnaire for you regarding what you think should be hold-by-hold and what can be global. I can theoretically make everything hold-by-hold, but the more stuff that stays global, the simpler the UI. I think it is important that as much stay global as possible to prevent setup and customization from becoming a headache for the user.

 

For each of the questions below, please provide a yes/no answer, then feel free to make suggestions or state how important you feel that point is to you.

 

1) Do you think crime severity should be adjustable on a hold-by-hold basis? (eg: allow user to make nudity fine in riften but misdemeanour in solitude)

 

2) Do you think the bounty for each crime severity level should be adjustable on a hold-by-hold basis? (eg. allow user to make nudity misdemeanour fine cost 10 gold in whiterun but 100 gold in windhelm)

 

3) Do you think the definition of nudity should be adjustable on a hold-by-hold basis? (eg. allow user to make exposed breasts illegal in winterhold, but ok in riften, so long as the crotch is covered)

 

4) I'm considering adding in functionality so that the player can make certain actions crimes without making them something that the citizens actually care about. Specifically, they could choose whether any citizen would report the player for the crime, or if only guards would bother. Should this be adjustable on a hold-by-hold basis? (eg. player can set it so that citizens in dawnstar don't care about your homosexuality, but the guards will still be forced to report you. Go to Solitude, however, and every citizen is a homophobe.)

 

5) I plan on dramatically enhancing the framework's definition of a 'public area'. The plan is to make it so that All exterior cells that are in or near a city or town will be public. All interior cells will be private by default, but users will be able to set the following interiors as public:

• Castles / Palaces / Places where Jarls live.
• Barracks / Forts / Military Camps.
• Temples.
• Guild Halls.
• Inns / Taverns.
• Shops

Should these be adjustable on a hold-by-hold basis? (eg. user can make it so that sex is perfectly acceptable in Inns / Taverns in Solitude whilst keeping it illegal in Whiterun's Inns / Taverns)

 

I welcome any further miscellaneous suggestions or comments.

 

To all question, yes. This would allow for future mods to adjust the parameters accordingly. So if say Slaverun were to use this framework, in Whiterun it would be a crime to have a string of cloth on the player but vice versa in Solitude.

 

Have different profiles for each mods even, have the player adjust the active profile being used in different holds. Or even different interiors. Like for Riften and maybe Markath its not a surprise to have prostitute around, but Solitude and Windhelm for example, they won't tolerate that.

 

By the way, I dare not try to update to 0.3 yet. Maybe soon, but I can't see anything bad going on when I updated and played around with it a bit. For now I'll just keep it as it is. Had my papyrus logging off to reduce a bit of load on my PC so I'm not sure if its a mess or not.

[Tensu_Makadi]

Just a quick question haven't tested this part yet but on what does the Define Nudity part entail? I get what it is saying but how does it make its determination for any option besides the default no clothing in main slot?

[leechlord]

Just a quick question haven't tested this part yet but on what does the Define Nudity part entail? I get what it is saying but how does it make its determination for any option besides the default no clothing in main slot?

 

So basically, in vanilla Skyrim, there is only one armor slot that can possibly cover the main part of the body. This is because Bethesda decided to just bundle entire sets of armor together, instead of making the player mix-and-match a chestpiece from one set, shoulders from another, and some leggings from yet another. That's why 'Dragonplate Armor' covers the entire body (except hands, feet, head, etc) even though it's only one piece of equipment. The default option for Define Nudity simply checks if there is any clothes/armor using this slot, and decides that you are naked if it is empty.

 

Many modders are unsatisfied with the lack of flexibility this system provides, and so they have released small partial clothing items (such as a bra, or panties, or a skirt, or a chastity belt, etc). Since you can't have two different pieces of armor in the same slot, the only way to mix and match these partial clothing items was to put them into different slots. Luckily Bethesda left a number of spare, unused, slots for modders to use instead.

 

If you use any mods that add these sorts of clothing (if you use devious devices then the chastity belt counts as one), then just checking for the basic armor slot isn't going to be ideal anymore. Luckily there is some sort of modder consensus on what type of clothing each (normally unused) slot should contain, and so it is possible for me to adjust the nudity checking algorithm to actually look for partial clothing items on the character. Using any of the non-default nudity definitions will check for the appropriate slots (in addition to the vanilla armor slot).

 

I might as well point out that the algorithms have no possible way of actually knowing if a piece of clothing covers up the important bits or if it entirely misses the area. Unfortunately that's the best I can do. It should be good enough for most. If you want realism I advise not using ridiculously skimpy armor in the first place.

[Zydar]

Would like to report that updating to 0.3 from 0.2 is not possible without some save corruption along the way. So I'm guessing I will go ahead with 0.2 for now.

There would be an error about SOS missing an add-on file before everything just freeze. Scripts will go haywire and all sort things. I will get a misdemeanor bounty every time I went from exterior to interior and vice versa. Tested this by using the disable mod -> save -> reload and save game without the mod in load order -> load with updated mod as well as using some save game script cleaner.

 

IMO I think you have to incorporate some safe way to update and uninstall the mod as a priority. For now I think my character shall have the added challenge of remaining pure not only to the general public but to her fellow followers and bandits alike. Even if she has the Devious Devices teasing her whims lol

[leechlord]

Would like to report that updating to 0.3 from 0.2 is not possible without some save corruption along the way. So I'm guessing I will go ahead with 0.2 for now.

 

There would be an error about SOS missing an add-on file before everything just freeze. Scripts will go haywire and all sort things. I will get a misdemeanor bounty every time I went from exterior to interior and vice versa. Tested this by using the disable mod -> save -> reload and save game without the mod in load order -> load with updated mod as well as using some save game script cleaner.

 

IMO I think you have to incorporate some safe way to update and uninstall the mod as a priority. For now I think my character shall have the added challenge of remaining pure not only to the general public but to her fellow followers and bandits alike. Even if she has the Devious Devices teasing her whims lol

 

Sorry about that. It's a shame.

 

Yeah, this is my first mod ever, so I'm learning a lot as I go. Once I realized my mistake I figured I might as well rip the bandaid off ASAP, whilst the userbase is still small, and whilst I can still reasonably point to my 'untested! don't blame me if your savefile corrupts!' disclaimer.

 

I have already begun scripting in measures to make upgrades much safer. Hopefully we never have to deal with this again. Hopefully that issue *is* actually a result of a bad upgrade. I'd hate to think there's a bug or conflict that nasty in the release itself.

 

The next major release will take a bit longer to come out than the previous few. I'm adding hold-by-hold customization, an advanced and customizable definition of 'public area', and (if I have time) making NPCs actually respond to sex crimes. I suspect that once those features are added the mod could become a lot more viable for many people, so I want to ensure that any upgrades after that point are safe.

 

Once those features make it into the release then almost all of the core features will be added, so (after a period testing and bugfixing) I might look at finally calling it a stable release.

[Zydar]

No worries, by the time I completed this playthrough (or grow bored of the character) I hope there might be some updates and new mods to try. Looking forward to what you would come up by then as well.

 

At least someone is doing something about the bounty lol

[Sun Shang Xiang]

Bug: Even if I disable the SexCrime, I still get the update that my bounty for X hold has increased. That is particularly annoying in Slaverun, even more so if you are a slave. Since you don't have any money, you have to go to jail because you were seen either naked or having sex with someone. A slave in Slaverun is *required* to be both naked and have sex(as part of the quest and the town law), and you can't do that if you are in jail.

[Sneaksmile]

 

Hello, I have 2 questions?  ...  no problem if PO it's installed ?  and  work with any version of SexLab?

 

Thanks  ...  also maybe you can upload some pics of the mod? 

 

At the moment I expect that the player will rack up a very high bounty whilst out in the pillory for Prison Overhaul. If you go into the SexCrime MCM menu and disable the framework when you get arrested and reactivate it once you're released that there are no problems.

 

I have only tested the framework with the latest version of SexLab. I don't know if it works with others.

 

I'm not sure what pictures you would want to see from this mod. It doesn't really add anything visual to the game.

 

 

Thanks by respond, so what does this mod exactly then?  from what I understand this change the crime judgments, right?  but adds new punishments or something? 

 

Greetings.

[leechlord]

Bug: Even if I disable the SexCrime, I still get the update that my bounty for X hold has increased. That is particularly annoying in Slaverun, even more so if you are a slave. Since you don't have any money, you have to go to jail because you were seen either naked or having sex with someone. A slave in Slaverun is *required* to be both naked and have sex(as part of the quest and the town law), and you can't do that if you are in jail.

 

Noted. I think the disable whole framework option is bugged. I'll fix it for the next release. Until then, your best bet would be to set all of the relevent crimes to 'Legal' whilst in Slaverun. The next version will allow you to set these options on a hold-by-hold basis, greatly improving compatibility with Slaverun.

 

 

 

Hello, I have 2 questions?  ...  no problem if PO it's installed ?  and  work with any version of SexLab?

 

Thanks  ...  also maybe you can upload some pics of the mod? 

 

At the moment I expect that the player will rack up a very high bounty whilst out in the pillory for Prison Overhaul. If you go into the SexCrime MCM menu and disable the framework when you get arrested and reactivate it once you're released that there are no problems.

 

I have only tested the framework with the latest version of SexLab. I don't know if it works with others.

 

I'm not sure what pictures you would want to see from this mod. It doesn't really add anything visual to the game.

 

 

Thanks by respond, so what does this mod exactly then?  from what I understand this change the crime judgments, right?  but adds new punishments or something? 

 

Greetings.

 

 

This mod allows you to set various SexLab related activities (and nudity) to be illegal. The ONLY thing this means at this stage is that if you are seen committing one of these crimes then your bounty will go up. It does not add any new punishments or anything like Prison Overhaul.

[Sneaksmile]

 

Bug: Even if I disable the SexCrime, I still get the update that my bounty for X hold has increased. That is particularly annoying in Slaverun, even more so if you are a slave. Since you don't have any money, you have to go to jail because you were seen either naked or having sex with someone. A slave in Slaverun is *required* to be both naked and have sex(as part of the quest and the town law), and you can't do that if you are in jail.

 

Noted. I think the disable whole framework option is bugged. I'll fix it for the next release. Until then, your best bet would be to set all of the relevent crimes to 'Legal' whilst in Slaverun. The next version will allow you to set these options on a hold-by-hold basis, greatly improving compatibility with Slaverun.

 

 

 

Hello, I have 2 questions?  ...  no problem if PO it's installed ?  and  work with any version of SexLab?

 

Thanks  ...  also maybe you can upload some pics of the mod? 

 

At the moment I expect that the player will rack up a very high bounty whilst out in the pillory for Prison Overhaul. If you go into the SexCrime MCM menu and disable the framework when you get arrested and reactivate it once you're released that there are no problems.

 

I have only tested the framework with the latest version of SexLab. I don't know if it works with others.

 

I'm not sure what pictures you would want to see from this mod. It doesn't really add anything visual to the game.

 

 

Thanks by respond, so what does this mod exactly then?  from what I understand this change the crime judgments, right?  but adds new punishments or something? 

 

Greetings.

 

 

This mod allows you to set various SexLab related activities (and nudity) to be illegal. The ONLY thing this means at this stage is that if you are seen committing one of these crimes then your bounty will go up. It does not add any new punishments or anything like Prison Overhaul.

 

 

Thanks for the explanation, now everything is crystal clear  , I'm going to try it especially for make nudity a crime, it's sad that don't add new punishments or something    , well ... THANKS.  

[leechlord]

 

 

Thanks for the explanation, now everything is crystal clear  , I'm going to try it especially for make nudity a crime, it's sad that don't add new punishments or something    , well ... THANKS.  

 

 

I actually created this framework because I am working on a mod that WILL add new punishments. I realized that I wanted a more advanced crime system in place before I started, and decided to make a framework out of it so that other mods could make themselves compatible. Don't expect anything too soon, but if you're interested then here is a link to an early concept:

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/33557-modwip-sso-crime-punishment-design-document/

[Googlebox]

Loving the mod interacts nicely with prison overhaul for example ^^

Especially love that i can set specific clothes as naked in SSLab arrousal and then get hassled for it with sexcrime - works not always but well enough

 

Small feature suggestion incase you don't have enough to do already(lol) 

Might not even be possible but: More integration with SL Arroused Would be awesome to be able to categorize the outfits further with a selection between "Naked" and "Only naked to moral npc's"? would be a nice toggle for the crimes too actually.

 

But then i don't really know if morality even applies to all npcs or just followers XD - just thought priest might find the skimpy clothes my pc is dressed in more objectionable then your average citizen.

[handsandarrows]

I hope this has not been mention before, but this mod seem to recognize the Custom Slave Harness from DD, the one that keep you from wearing armor, as clothes, allthough for example Sexlab Aroused recognize as naked correctly... I hope maybe there is some way to fix so player can get penalty for nudity when wearing only Harness?

[crudo]

Just added this mod and think I will keep it around for a while.  Nice work.  The only issue I ran into was with Prison Overhaul.  When sent to prison and then taken outdoors for punishment in Whiterun my bounty kept going up as I was outside all day.  This complicates things because the guards will track me down in prison and arrest me a second time and that pretty much locks up Prison Overhaul and if it didn't it would be an endless loop.

 

I know I can simply go into the MCM and turn off public nudity as a crime but I don't care for hopping to the MCM to suspend a mods actions.  Could you possibly update the mod so you are not penalized when you are in prison or maybe make a hotkey to toggle the mod on/off?

 

Good stuff, I was looking for something like this for quite some time.

[Kimy]

I hope this has not been mention before, but this mod seem to recognize the Custom Slave Harness from DD, the one that keep you from wearing armor, as clothes, allthough for example Sexlab Aroused recognize as naked correctly... I hope maybe there is some way to fix so player can get penalty for nudity when wearing only Harness?

 

That harness occupies slot 32 (body), which if I am not totally mistaken is SexCrime's definition for -not- being naked. I guess you'd have to add it to the "treat this clothing as naked" list.

[MallaVelve]

Idea;  

 

Nudity, sex, rape, etc.  is a crime in some holds. 

 

This is all well and good but what about slavery and slave gear?  Would a uptight and lawful Solitude not frown on slavery?  Would not the guards and or citizens want to free you from this obvious crime against your freedom/dignity/self worth? 

 

I am unsure of how this could be implemented but seems to be well within the scope of this mod and something that bothers me.  

An option to make a Holds guard and or citizen try to free you and not punish you makes sense to me.

[Justoutthere]

Just tried this out and had a very curious effect, when I first loaded my game after installing my character was bodyless, just a disembodied head with a weapon.

 

Took a bit but finally sorted out what the issue was, my character had changed sex and as it was a custom race that has no male counterpart it was just a floating head

 

I am sure it was this mod that caused this as I uninstalled it and reloaded the same save and I was there in full.

[leechlord]

Just tried this out and had a very curious effect, when I first loaded my game after installing my character was bodyless, just a disembodied head with a weapon.

 

Took a bit but finally sorted out what the issue was, my character had changed sex and as it was a custom race that has no male counterpart it was just a floating head

 

I am sure it was this mod that caused this as I uninstalled it and reloaded the same save and I was there in full.

 

This mod does not change any character's sex/gender. It does not add, alter, or remove any cosmetics of any kind. The only way this could possible have occurred is if you installed 0.1 or 0.2 and another mod made the same terrible mistake those versions once made.

 

If you were using 0.3 then I am 99.9% certain that your issue has nothing at all to do with SexCrime.

[Justoutthere]

 

Just tried this out and had a very curious effect, when I first loaded my game after installing my character was bodyless, just a disembodied head with a weapon.

 

Took a bit but finally sorted out what the issue was, my character had changed sex and as it was a custom race that has no male counterpart it was just a floating head

 

I am sure it was this mod that caused this as I uninstalled it and reloaded the same save and I was there in full.

 

This mod does not change any character's sex/gender. It does not add, alter, or remove any cosmetics of any kind. The only way this could possible have occurred is if you installed 0.1 or 0.2 and another mod made the same terrible mistake those versions once made.

 

If you were using 0.3 then I am 99.9% certain that your issue has nothing at all to do with SexCrime.

 

When I add this mod (Ver 0.3) I get a sex change, when I dont I dont. Whilst I am sure there is no intention to change the sex of the character I am experiencing this. I am using a custom character race that is rather strict in its use ( Demonica) so perhaps there is a conflict there, it is not a big issue as can very easily be resolved. I was just making people aware of the experience so that if anyone else had it they would be able to resolve without fuss and also allow the modder to know of it. 

 

Just to repeat the main point

 

IT ONLY HAPPENED WHEN I INSTALLED THIS MOD. 

[dragsteal]

First of all, I like your mod! It's what I need to make the game "more realistic".

 

But I think I've found a new bug or something similar. I'm not sure if it's known or not.

Every time a sex scene starts (SexLab 1.59), the scene will be interrupted after 1-2 seconds and the npc "bounce" back like an ragdoll ending.

 

Whithout this mod, it doesn't happen, so I think it's a bug.

 

 

(Sorry for my bad english, I hope you know what I mean  )

[nottadoctor]

I had a strange issue created by (I think) interactions with this mod and some other LoversLab mod. Sex was stopped at a randow point in the act, both parties were redressed, and the npc was bounced away from me.

[magnusx]

It happened me when i installed defeat, but not the actual version, the previous one

[nottadoctor]

That must be the incompatibility then.