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Can We Please Move On From Female Bounce/collision?


zzz72w3r

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First of all, all the little I know about HDT physics I learned here the last two weeks, also two languages have gone obsolete since last time I did any programming.  Second, this is by no means understating all the hard works and even more important the patience modders have put up on this board.  However, based on what I learned here, to me at least that there is now a standard implementation method of female bounce/collision impacts people on this site are looking for.   Someone please tell me based on what is available now, why can't we have a sticky on a standardized installation guide for users like myself.

 

What are people looking for: movements of female breasts, ass and belly relative to character movement and collisions with hand(male/female) and SOS.

 

1. skeleton - we all are using a standard one.

2. HDT mesh - again standard has achieved for various female mesh formats and male (SOS and hand).

3. non-intrusive implementation of Havok - clp2011's Havok for Beginners approach is totally reversible via mod managers if someone can put them in a release package.

4. xml - a standard package is still needed

 

For users, all we need are xml packages for outcomes on three female body areas, may I suggest packages release in this mod managers friendly format:

3 nodes XML small bounce, small collision by "xxxx mmddyr".rar  - the natural package

3 nodes XML medium wiggle, large collision by "xxxx mmddyr".rar - the porn package

3 nodes XML large wiggle, large collision by "xxxx mmddyr".rar - the exaggerated package

(I don't think there is demand for small bounce, large collision)

 

Tinkerers who are proficient with xml coding can tinker all they want for the best outcome as long as they release the package in those formats.  We users can all see what we are getting and try them since the process is not irreversible.

 

If what I stated is not nonsense, can someone who really knows this stuff put a simple guide and file links on a sticky so we can all move on to use this stuff rather than asking about it over and over?  Even if there are better methods, the fact is whether the incremental wait is worth it for a game that came out in 2011 with Dragon Age 3 and Witcher 3 all coming in the next 12 months.  I'd rather see more hairs and skirts with physics in Skyrm than more body part movements that are barely noticeable (apology to those who are waiting for the exaggerated package).

 

Just my 0.02.  Thanks again to all the modders and this wonderful board.   

 

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judging by what i learned and seen in order to get nice quality bounces that people want, all goes back to an animation file.The very simple is have a one skeleton ( expl is vanilla skel ) with extra data - path to a behavior file animation ( again that use vanilla game)  for hdt like  effect.But when someone made custom skeleton adding new nodes and tweaked params+names  in old nodes , it broke the order and now we got +10500 variables skeletons  is chaos right now.No wonder people have troubles with hdt and allot questions.

You make item, you add bone node to skeleton and skin it in order to work in game properly  , you make xml for it and cycle continue.Then its a new shared skeleton cause item wont work if you don't have nodes in it and etc.

 

So i think its better for behavior files that can be also edited. Hdt is heavy on cpu to, as i worked and tested ,world filled with hdt stuff breaks the game for me.Thats my thought on this ,thats not a progress for the game.Also better study verlet physics that was already in the game ))                    like demo in vid

http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/tutorials/simulate-tearable-cloth-and-ragdolls-with-simple-verlet-integration--gamedev-519

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I thought I had already answered it.

With "Havok Breast Physics" you have a mod that provides the available parameters for Havok in the game with ESP and ESM.

This is very valuable when you consider the alternatives.

 

What paramaters are, depends on the XML.

There are actually here on LL for every taste a XML.

 

You can test any XML.

 

With JFF you can without provides knowledge in XML, himself editing.

Maybe you should try it once.

 

I suppose your question after a re-upload of my mod was just a joke.

When I have time, I will provide the mod as MO and NMM version.

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Thanks, clp2011.  I know in your original Havok for Breast Physics mod you did not include anything for the belly node in the xml because of your distaste for unnatural movements but for your planned release package can you include all the nodes?  Something like:

 

3 nodes XML small bounce, small collision by clp2011 mmdd2014.rar

 

Someone else can build on this base so the files will contain all the foundation and people just need to tinker with the parameters with JFF to release packages for different type of effects and repackage the files for release for those who have used your mod.

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Thanks, clp2011.  I know in your original Havok for Breast Physics mod you did not include anything for the belly node in the xml because of your distaste for unnatural movements but for your planned release package can you include all the nodes?  Something like:

 

3 nodes XML small bounce, small collision by clp2011 mmdd2014.rar

 

Someone else can build on this base so the files will contain all the foundation and people just need to tinker with the parameters with JFF to release packages for different type of effects and repackage the files for release for those who have used your mod.

 

There is already xml with Belly etc

What prevents you from using this XML?

 

Breast Havok Physic works with any xml when it is called hdtPhysicsExtensionDefaultBBP.xml

In the meshes of the mod , you can also enter a different xml in NiStringExtraData

Or rename the xml if it is called differently.

 

If everything would be so easy , do not you think I or others would not have done that long ago

I have more than 70 xml files.

Because I am bored? 

 

No.

An example:

Version with little butt bounce and version with strong butt bounce.

 

If I make a version with strong butt bounce, this version will probably work so wonderfully for UNPB / Sevenbase.

For most CBBE-Armors, it will be useless - even though it's the same XML.

Although it is a common skeleton mesh and HKX used - but in the Armor is often another skeleton has been used.

Therefore looks at CBBE butt bounce very often, like watching a folding chair open and close.

The armor has a different skeleton, other bone weighting etc.

 

Their requirement would have to be made for every body type.

 

Topic Belly bone:

Realistic to a certain degree - Yes.

If you're pregnant, for example.

 

What should jiggle a lean woman. The skin?

 

Maybe an idea.

Several xml, with different strengths of belly bounce.

 

And this xml's in the script of "pregnancy" mods dynamically assign.

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Re: Clp2011

 

Like I said I am not technically proficient to know how complicated it is to address different types of physics with various body meshes.  Nevertheless, I would like to see people releasing xml packages with clearly labeled descriptions rather than spreading out different individual xml files or even irreversible .nif implementations all over the forums.  I meant no disrespect on why there isn't a solution but I think the issue at this point of development is so close to the end and really should be about communication regarding testing procedures for users.  I used one of the base xml with belly node but I have no idea whether I have collision in those nodes since there is no good way to test collision anywhere besides breasts.  I am new here and if this forum was intended for modders trying out stuff then I apologize for stepping out of bound.

 

Lastly, I know we had this discussion before regarding the belly node.  You do realize that even people with iron abs move their stomachs when they breath and we have no bone below the chest for that big mass of tissues within.  A fit and lean woman has more movement at the stomach area than at the breasts during exercise (I was a competitive rower for many years and have been around many of them).  Yes using bounce physics on the belly node is a lie because it's the fat contained in the breasts resulting in bounce but I will take the compromised illusion of breathing than none.  

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I am not criticizing your idea.

I do not think this is wrong.

 

The history of HDT PE, however, shows that it is only wishful thinking, with different strong effects - to have THE SOLUTION - with belly or without belly.

 

Here is an example:

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/28922-hdt-breast-physic-and-collision-for-sevenbase-unpunpb-cbbe-and-topmodel/

 

Different XML with varying degrees of effects.

 

Is this THE SOLUTION?

Never.

 

For one, Butt Bounce is to less or strong.

The other is butt bounce ok, but not breast bounce, etc.

One wants SOS collision for breasts, the other for butt, the next for everything.

 

It is impossible to realize any idea 100%.

Even if you want it, you have to compare effort and benefit.

 

The super solution would be a WYSIWYG editor like RaceMenu.

As long as there is no such thing, we will have to live with the fact that there are a variety of type is XML.

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I am a pretty new HDT PE user and have to admit I am somewhat in the same boat as the TO.

 

I tested several .xml files for my CBBE HDT body and the effects vary a lot. I understand that it is almost impossible to standardize .xml presets for HDT PE, because it depends on:

 

-personal taste (as the TO and clp2011 already mentioned, weak/strong jiggle, some like belly bounce, some not, because they create even body shapes without any belly, because they like it athletic etc. etc.)

-body mesh weight paint used (BBP, TBBP, HDT)

-outfit mesh weight paint used (BBP, TBBP, HDT)

-skeleton

-general body/outfit shape used (UNP/UNPB, CBBE etc.) and maybe even more adjusted by Bodyslide 2 or personal .nif setups ? large breasts, small breasts, big butts, small butts, tested for min weight, tested for max weight etc. etc.

-even your personal animation setup plays a role, there are customized animations (Immersive Animations for example) with abrupt movements for attacking/slashing etc. that might not look well with every .xml file.

 

...BUT it might be useful to know at least a couple of the above information that matters in form of a mod description when somebody posts a .xml preset here.

 

At moment some of the delivered files here lack even the info which HDT PE version (12.14, 14.28 ?) or if a HDT body is used, or if the .xml file was created only for SexLab animations in mind (so SexLab animations might look awesome, while the breasts coil around my chars ears while she is sprinting ?) As a user I call that rather unstructured if I want to stay polite, and a bloody mess when I am not in the mood to stay polite...

 

Not pointed to clp2011 (your mod description actually has the above info needed), in no way, just saying that in general.

 

I am not lazy at reading (hey, I read all over 100 pages of the Private Needs thread to find an answer for my issue somewhere between the lines...because the author did not post a patch/fix history or troubleshooting section, but I decided the mod is still worth doing that), but there should be something to read at all..

 

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I 'll try to describe where the greatest need is - from my perspective and from my experience.

There is generally a great need for it to ever tell:
- What is HDT PE
- How does it work in principle
- Generally an understanding of HDT PE
Goal should be - to see HDT PE in my view - as just as natural as if you installed a suit of armor.
To this end, a basic understanding is necessary.
In Havok Breast Physic I 've tried to explain some of these relationships .
If it did not succees, it is because I can not speak English.
I use Goggle , write in English there and check if Goggle it into something understandable it does in German.

So - about we must not talk - my descriptions are probably the worst descriptions that are out there.
I'm sorry , I'll but it can not change.
So what is really needed is an introduction to HDT PE.

From me as a structural grams or program flowchart, so would probably helped many people.

The description of the mods in detail:
I and everyone else can naturally describe what is generally contained in the mod .But no more.

So it is pointless to write something like this, since it is purely subjective.
So the modders would have to provide for all options and each body a video or gif.
Therefore, I truly believe that relationships and functioning of HDT PE actually have priority.

No other tutorials, how do I install something, but a tutorial which creates an understanding of HDT PE.
Then the people are self-conscious.

You know what HDT PE version they have installed.
And they will also have no more fear, sometimes to test this xml, or even sometimes the other xml.
You have no fears, because then they know what they're doing.

Short summary:
The understanding of HDT PE should be as obvious as the installation of armor mods.
For an introduction to HDT PE needs to be written. Not for Setup, Step by Step and other.
Of this stuff has been around enough, actually too much because it just confused if you are not familiar.
The timeliness of these tutorials I will not even mention the first place.

There needs to be a simple introduction, what HDT PE is how the relationships are between DLL, directories, XML and how to use it.
I could do this too, I have also tried it in part, but everyone has their limits.
And my limits are foreign languages, in German, I would have no problem with that.

 

 

Edit:

And for anyone who can not wait:

Hydro has before something great.

I had already (mentioned as foreshadowing) it It wants a kind WYSISWYG - develop Editor.

 

I had suspected it. The calm before the storm.

He just kept too long out, as had to be something in the bush.

Hydro is already a crazy guy, I love him.

It will be a great challenge and I wish him the best of luck.

 

@ Hydro: Take your time, you have all the time in the world

 

See here: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/53996/?

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  • 2 months later...

I assume that when the body physics are worked out, hair and clothes are next. Seriously, at some point I want all that to be in a game already at it's release. The wind are blowing and your characters hair and clothes moves with the wind and physics also makes sure that our character actually breathes! Do the wind right and I may actually loose some stamina trying to walk towards the wind if it's strong enough.

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I assume that when the body physics are worked out, hair and clothes are next. Seriously, at some point I want all that to be in a game already at it's release. The wind are blowing and your characters hair and clothes moves with the wind and physics also makes sure that our character actually breathes! Do the wind right and I may actually loose some stamina trying to walk towards the wind if it's strong enough.

 

Sure no problem.

 

You just have to pay for the computer that could run all that at a decent framerate.

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I assume that when the body physics are worked out, hair and clothes are next. Seriously, at some point I want all that to be in a game already at it's release. The wind are blowing and your characters hair and clothes moves with the wind and physics also makes sure that our character actually breathes! Do the wind right and I may actually loose some stamina trying to walk towards the wind if it's strong enough.

 

Sure no problem.

 

You just have to pay for the computer that could run all that at a decent framerate.

 

 

Nah . . . wind could be simulated pretty easily. static movement/animation. 

  1. set "wind" direction.
  2. make grass meshes lean in the direction of the wind. Don't apply physics, just lean it.
  3. have differing meshes of vegetation lean to different degrees. 
  4. feeling industrious? make em bob some.
  5. Is the PC within a certain distance? forget the wind, lean it away from the pc.
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I assume that when the body physics are worked out, hair and clothes are next. Seriously, at some point I want all that to be in a game already at it's release. The wind are blowing and your characters hair and clothes moves with the wind and physics also makes sure that our character actually breathes! Do the wind right and I may actually loose some stamina trying to walk towards the wind if it's strong enough.

 

Well, we almost have hair in wind now.  Merida hair has so many parts it jiggles a bit even when ur still, and it looks like it is in slight breeze.   One of its best features!  Aside from just being awesome to begin with, I mean.

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