Let's talk about slavery (Now with a small download!)

[Chase Roxand]

At least a few of us have wanted a proper slavery mod for quite a while now, and I've had enough of it. Last night I started to put together a basic structure for a slavery mod. It isn't functional, but I wanted to figure out what we want before I work too much on things. At the moment, here's what I've got planned:

 

- Restricted freedom based on distance from an NPC or object, based on certain cells/worldspaces, or using the leash system.

- Automated punishment (lethal and non-lethal)

- Collar management

- Slavers that will capture, transport, and sell you. Modders can add their own masters to be sold to and slavers will randomly take you there.

- Automatic reactions for the master(s) depending on your behavior (weapons, clothing, etc).

- Basic enslavement for NPCs. All of the fancy stuff is for the player.

 

Essentially, it'd work like this:

CIOS SexoutSlaveryFreePlayer ; resets settings

; define some vital/optional variables here

CIOS SexoutSlaveryEnslavePlayer

You'd have one topic to include in your quest that would re-enslave the player according to your settings, along with whatever else you'd like the script to do. However, you could use however much (or little) of the automated scripts as you want.

 

Now, the problems:

- I'll gladly include pre-made dialog as resources, but I'm not going to write it.

- I don't have the time to do all of this, but I'll get as much done as possible.

- I don't know what else you guys would need to get the ball rolling on a plugin or two for this. What needs to be automated? What kind of variables would you need?

- Form lists with cells don't appear to work.

- If the leash system is being removed from SexoutNG, I'll have to port it to this. Unless no one wants it.

 

So? Ideas, suggestions?

 

EDIT

The first development version of SexoutSlavery can be found here.

[Commanderx]

The Legion slavery already allows for the base female companions to be enslaved as well, so it would be interesting to see this incorporated as well.

[Guest Loogie]

My slavery mode is nothing fancy - it just makes it so you can't leave the fort, strips your gear, slaps a collar on you and turns fast travel off. All that stuff needs handled separately, and using my method it's REALLY easy to fuck it up by forgetting any one of those - which I've done a few times. What Chase is recommending is a project where all this stuff happens more or less automatically.

[GSBmodders]

Sounds good chase and thank you for getting this started. If there is anything you need, gear or prop wise send me a pm.

[Kissinger]

I have to admit, I'm really not sure how much of the below is in the scope of what you're suggesting (or even how much work it might be!). But here are some thoughts anyways.

 

Food/Sleep/Wait Management:

 

Depending on whether hardcore mode is on or not, slavers/masters should be in charge of managing the player's needs as they see fit. It would be cool if this was dynamic (i.e. players would get fed/watered as they needed/as the slavers decided.) Also, the sleep/wait menu could be replaced with a brief dialogue list of actions, based on what was contextually appropriate. So press 'T' and you might try, for instance, rattling your chains, or masturbating, or howling at the moon, or whatever. Or you might decide to doze off and be punished for being slothful by a returning master. The wait mode should be totally eliminated though. It doesn't really serve any meaningful roleplaying purpose here.

 

Pregnancy Integration:

 

There should be some recognition of whether or not players are already pregnant when enslaved, as this may influence eventual buyers. Late term pregnancies should be recognized in some way by slavers. They might transport the player in a cart, instead making a pregnant PC undergo a strenuous walk in the scorching Mohave. Unless they are particularly cruel (they are slavers, after all).

 

Sexout Lust Integration:

 

Pretty please?

 

PipBoy Removal:

 

It might be interesting to have some gameplay sans Pipboy. I can't imagine why any slaver or master would let the player keep it at all times, at least. It might make for a better slavery experience if slavers or masters decide what the player wears, for instance. Mods can be managed through MCM (but maybe there can be some kind of emergency inventory access triggered through dialogue...like a safe word.) If the player really needs to change something, they can always beg for it. And this way, escape might be actually challenging and fun. There might be an actual problem solving element to gameplay, rather then just lockpicking open a cage whenever the slavers turn around.

 

Skill/Stat Checks:

 

It'd be cool if you could negotiate with slavers, but obviously this depends on context. Ideally certain stats would make it more likely you'd be enslaved (high CHR, low END/STR, low INT, and so on.) How to manage stat checks seems specific to however the slavery system evolves, though. The other thing to consider is whether or not the system should create specific stats with regards to enslavement and how they might relate to SPECIAL attributes. Integrating these new stats with dialogue would be up to modders.

 

Escape:

 

This should be a basis of roleplaying. Whether or not the player is allowed to actually escape, it seems appropriate to track whether or not they tried. Are they obedient, reluctant, or outright defiant? Maybe eager? It's important to the Fallout experience that players are allowed to roleplay.

 

 

Phew. Hope there's something useful in all of that!

 

[Chase Roxand]

I'd much rather get too much feedback than too little!

 

What I'm putting together isn't going to do very much on its own in-game. It'll establish slavers and control most of their activities, but once a slave master is reached and you're sold (or enslaved by means defined by another plugin), this plugin will only provide automated systems for controlling slavery-related activities. However, that doesn't make any of what you say invalid. It just means that if I do include those things, some of them would only be resources.

 

Food/Sleep/Wait Management:

Waiting will be disabled, depending on how strict the enslavement is. I'll definitely consider the menu. Food and sleep will be included for sure. I forgot about hardcore... and roleplay. I usually forget that people want immersion.

 

Pregnancy Integration:

This is something that I'd add in much later, but it's a great idea.

 

Sexout Lust Integration:

Wouldn't be hard at all, but I'm not sure what modders would do with it. Care to elaborate?

 

PipBoy Removal:

This will be up to the modders, but I'll be sure to include it as an option (for modders, not users). I can think of several situations where it'd be preferable to have a PipBoy.

 

Skill/Stat Checks:

There will be a conversation with the slaver before some captures, so stats will certainly come into play.

 

Escape:

Based off of what I've already coded, you could be set up to be unable to escape. But stats, I didn't include that yet. Tracking them will only be partially controlled by this plugin. Only pre-made escape routes that I include will be tracked.

 

Remember, this will be a resource, not an actual mod.

[afa]

This is getting really specific, I am no modder, but I really don't know how you would into making a slavery resource that isn't an actual mod.

The closest thing around these part would be SexoutSewerSlave and it is a mod on its own.

I might be completely off base here but...

 

I believe what people are looking for in a slavery mod is some sort of situations/events that puts the PC in peril that is somehow fitting in the Fallout environment. So first is the triggering of the slavery, what will cause the capturing of the PC? Quest line specific? Defeat in combat? Simple dialog; got trick or debt?

So I guess you will have to first define a slaver. Is that person a custom NPC or is that person going to be any Raider/Kahn/Fiend/Powder Gang showing up as slaver base on a % chance.

 

Next, what is the "goal" or end of the slavery scenario? Complete escape? Escape but with slavers hunting you down? End of a quest line? Move up into the rank of being a slaver? Never end? Game over scenario?

If the goal is the escape how can the PC escape? Just run fast enough dodging bullets? Fight the slaver either by brute force or some sort of science/medicine/sneak check?

What happen if the PC fail to escape? Some sort of punishment? tougher chains so harder escape next time? Can the PC just keep trying to escape as many times as she wants? Will the slaver eventually just kill the PC after too many failed attempts or sell the PC off to another slaver and the escape scenario starts over again with another slaver?

If the goal is the move up into becoming a slaver then the slaver will probably take the PC out to capture slaves and the PC will have to do her parts.

 

Now in between the time of capture until the "end" what would the slavers have the PC do? Slave trades that require transfer of ownership for the PC to another NPC, probably some sort of traveling and path finding mechanics with limited movement, Oblivion's PlayerSlave comes into mind. Fight in some sort of arena? Pleasing clients? Fight/Please until PC can have a chance to escape/become a slaver/set free?

 

I think we need to figure out how the slavery scenario will play out first.

[zippy57]

This is getting really specific' date=' I am no modder, but I really don't know how you would into making a slavery resource that isn't an actual mod.[/quote']I think that most slavery mods, while the people/location/circumstances involved may be different, are largely going to end up with a lot of the same features. An example would be the wait/sleep override. Rather than five diffeerent mods all with their own scripts to do it, they just set a variable in the master and it takes care of it. And at the very least having a central plugin controlling everything would make it much easier to avoid things like somehow being enslaved by one mod while already enslaved by another; with five standalone plugins the modders need to sort that out amongst themselves but with one master plugin you just add a variable check and it's solved.

 

Keep in mind Sexout.esm itself is just a resource, it doesn't do anything by itself. Without it we'd have fifteen different scripts trying to deal with sex and nothing would work at all. This is the same type of thing.

[GSBmodders]

I think we need to figure out how the slavery scenario will play out first.

 

nope' date=' what needs to be done first is exactly chase is doing, creating the engine that future slavery mods will run on.

 

PipBoy Removal:

This will be up to the modders, but I'll be sure to include it as an option (for modders, not users). I can think of several situations where it'd be preferable to have a PipBoy.

 

This should probably be left out, I do not think I am the only one with a pipboy removal mod in their load order. This will most definately cause conflicts in game and serious QQ's for anyone wanting to use this. Not to mention that it is likely that anyone who stops using this and uninstalls the mod would then experience the no pipboy bug and not being able to access the inventory menu, map and so on

[zippy57]

PipBoy Removal:

This will be up to the modders' date=' but I'll be sure to include it as an option (for modders, not users). I can think of several situations where it'd be preferable to have a PipBoy.[/quote']This should probably be left out, I do not think I am the only one with a pipboy removal mod in their load order. This will most definately cause conflicts in game and serious QQ's for anyone wanting to use this. Not to mention that it is likely that anyone who stops using this and uninstalls the mod would then experience the no pipboy bug and not being able to access the inventory menu, map and so on

I would also vote no on this, or at least it being left up to the player rather than the modder. I would say that, as a rule, unless you're in a completely controlled environment (like Tranquility Lane in an unmodded FO3) you should not be taking away something so important to gameplay. A lot of mods have not switched over to MCM and you'd be depriving the player of their only method of changing settings.

 

It's the classic gameplay vs. story battle, really. Yes, the player would probably get the Pipboy taken from them in this situation were it real. But the Pipboy is simply too important to the basic gameplay to do that to the player.

[Chase Roxand]

Message received. I won't be including PipBoy removal.

 

Just got into in-game testing after hours of coding. It's very basic, but it works. The player can be enslaved, can have their stuff taken away to a specific location, and can be punished according to what the modder wants.

 

Since I won't have any time to work on this during the week, expect some sort of release tomorrow.

[prideslayer]

Love the idea, agree about not removing the pip boy. If there were some other way to access inventory and heal yourself I'd probably consider it, but without those options, relying on all the mods that could possibly use slavery having to manage it themselves makes me nervous.

 

As for the leash, I think you should probably put your own system in the mod, or copy the one from NG. Sad truth is, I don't think it works quite right, and I also don't want to have to keep the leash updated / add features to it. It's one of those things that belongs in another mod, and I think a slavery mod is the perfect place for it!

 

Feel free to steal the leash in whole or part from sexout if you like though! Once you have yours and an initial version is released, I'll remove the one from Sexout.

 

New post will be fothcoming with my own ideas about what should be in such a mod.

[prideslayer]

My thoughts on the essentials, and some nice to haves, for a GP slavery mod.

 

1. Equipment. When enslaved, your equipment is often removed and hidden in a container somewhere. I think this containers refID should be in the slavery mod, so all mods know where your 'stuff' is. If you get traded from one group (mod) to another, your stuff could be moved to the new container and the ref updated.

 

2. Collars. Most of the mods use some kind of collar as well. Legion Tryout fits you with one that is basically just for looks. Sewerslave fits you with an explosive one. Since different mods may want to continue having different effects like this, they should probably continue to provide their own collars, at least in the graphical sense.

 

3. Leash should probably be different, functionally and codewise, from a collar. It need not have a model and be an actual item, but I think it's important to keep the two separate so that all mods, with their different functioning collars, can use the same leash functionality. A leash spell/quest similar to the sexout system itself would probably be fine here; set some vars (distance, who holds the leash, etc) then cast the spell on the victim.

 

4. Some kind of 'registration' system for mods would be nice. Mods with enslavement could tell the slavery mod they exist and are loaded, and then enslavement-aware mods would only have to check with the enslavement mod and not all the sub-mods in order to make dialog choice and so on.

 

 

[Chase Roxand]

My thoughts on the essentials, and some nice to haves, for a GP slavery mod.

 

1. Equipment. When enslaved, your equipment is often removed and hidden in a container somewhere. I think this containers refID should be in the slavery mod, so all mods know where your 'stuff' is. If you get traded from one group (mod) to another, your stuff could be moved to the new container and the ref updated.

Already done. You can select between removing all weapons/clothing/supplies, just weapons, or nothing. I've included an exclusion list and it ignores "SexoutNGNudeBodies".

When the player's items are removed, they're moved to a default container, then moved elsewhere if you defined "stolenItemsContainer" before enslavement.

 

2. Collars. Most of the mods use some kind of collar as well. Legion Tryout fits you with one that is basically just for looks. Sewerslave fits you with an explosive one. Since different mods may want to continue having different effects like this, they should probably continue to provide their own collars, at least in the graphical sense.

Also already done. The collar and punishment are treated seperately and are modder-defined. You can use a premade punishment or your own, and by default the player will be equipped with a useless collar that can't be removed. However, by changing the "Collar" reference before enslavement, it will equip whatever you want.

3. Leash should probably be different, functionally and codewise, from a collar. It need not have a model and be an actual item, but I think it's important to keep the two separate so that all mods, with their different functioning collars, can use the same leash functionality. A leash spell/quest similar to the sexout system itself would probably be fine here; set some vars (distance, who holds the leash, etc) then cast the spell on the victim.

I figured that you'd want the leash code moved here. It'll probably get moved over later, rather than sooner, but feel free to remove it from SexoutNG before then. I'm not even sure anyone will use it.

4. Some kind of 'registration' system for mods would be nice. Mods with enslavement could tell the slavery mod they exist and are loaded, and then enslavement-aware mods would only have to check with the enslavement mod and not all the sub-mods in order to make dialog choice and so on.

Can't say that I'd know how to go about this. Certainly there will be dialog conflicts, but it's really up to the modders to be responsible and not leave the conditions wide open. Do you have any suggestions for a script?

 

[Halstrom]

4. Some kind of 'registration' system for mods would be nice. Mods with enslavement could tell the slavery mod they exist and are loaded' date=' and then enslavement-aware mods would only have to check with the enslavement mod and not all the sub-mods in order to make dialog choice and so on.[/quote']

Can't say that I'd know how to go about this. Certainly there will be dialog conflicts, but it's really up to the modders to be responsible and not leave the conditions wide open. Do you have any suggestions for a script?

I thought of this earlier and added formlists in SCR

ActorDataIsEnslavedByLegion, ActorDataIsEnslavedByPowderGangers ActorDataIsSlave etc, feel free to use them or add similar in SexoutNG and I will remove them. I also added a couple of Lists for collars & bindings. Use them or add your own, are you planning it to be an ESP or ESM?

Looking forward to seeing an Enslavement system

[Chase Roxand]

I thought of this earlier and added formlists in SCR

ActorDataIsEnslavedByLegion' date=' ActorDataIsEnslavedByPowderGangers ActorDataIsSlave etc, feel free to use them or add similar in SexoutNG and I will remove them. I also added a couple of Lists for collars & bindings. Use them or add your own, are you planning it to be an ESP or ESM?

Looking forward to seeing an Enslavement system

[/quote']

 

It'll be an ESM, though I have no idea how to make/edit an ESM. I've never had to manage one before. And it already uses SCR, so I'll take advantage of those form lists. Thanks!

[zippy57]

It'll be an ESM' date=' though I have no idea how to make/edit an ESM. I've never had to manage one before. And it already uses SCR, so I'll take advantage of those form lists. Thanks![/quote']You can use FNVEdit to flag a plugin as an ESM, then you just change the file extension.

[prideslayer]

4. Some kind of 'registration' system for mods would be nice. Mods with enslavement could tell the slavery mod they exist and are loaded' date=' and then enslavement-aware mods would only have to check with the enslavement mod and not all the sub-mods in order to make dialog choice and so on.

[/quote']

Can't say that I'd know how to go about this. Certainly there will be dialog conflicts, but it's really up to the modders to be responsible and not leave the conditions wide open. Do you have any suggestions for a script?

 

I was thinking of something like.. a formlist called something like SlaveGroupsEnabled, and create a few misc items like SlaveModLegion, SlaveModKhans, SlaveMod(whatever).

 

When a mod that provides slavery with that group is loaded, it could add the appropriate tokens to the formlist. I'm not sure how useful it would be to be honest.. was just thinking out loud I guess.

 

 

It'll be an ESM' date=' though I have no idea how to make/edit an ESM. I've never had to manage one before. And it already uses SCR, so I'll take advantage of those form lists. Thanks!

[/quote']

 

Just make the ESP as normal and when you're ready, in FNVEdit you can open the header and edit the 'flags' section, check off ESM.

 

Other people rename back and forth, and I think the latest GeckPU lets you edit ESMs directly in the GECK, but I don't do either of those myself -- just to keep sane.

 

I keep Sexout locally as an ESP that I work on. Whenever I make a new release and am ready to test, I delete Sexout.esm, then copy Sexout.esp, rename the copy, and turn on the flag in FNVEdit. This helps me bug hunt too, since I always have the ESP and ESM both available -- the ESP has the most recent unreleased changes, while the ESM is either the released version, or the soon-to-be released version.

 

If during editing I screw up the ESP too badly, I just delete it, copy and rename the ESM, turn off the flag, and start again.

 

 

[GSBmodders]

this could probably use a separate faction for slavers that are neutral to other factions, a common auction house and i would also say simple slavers pens scattered about as kind of a dumping ground to add a bit more depth.

 

as for resources i sent thomthom sound recording's of auctions in progress from opening bid to the final strike of the gavel. that is something else this could probably use. I do not think I have those anymore myself but thomthom most likely does.

 

a few other things is that i converted a few of the bondage outfits from oblivion and altered hentai's apple set to give it more of a bdsm slaves look, if you want to add those in i'll send them your way otherwise i'll dump them in the props thread as usual

[Halstrom]

this could probably use a separate faction for slavers that are neutral to other factions' date=' a common auction house and i would also say simple slavers pens scattered about as kind of a dumping ground to add a bit more depth.

 

as for resources i sent thomthom sound recording's of auctions in progress from opening bid to the final strike of the gavel. that is something else this could probably use. I do not think I have those anymore myself but thomthom most likely does.

 

a few other things is that i converted a few of the bondage outfits from oblivion and altered hentai's apple set to give it more of a bdsm slaves look, if you want to add those in i'll send them your way otherwise i'll dump them in the props thread as usual[/quote']

Adding them to SCR for us would be even better

I've been using the latest GECK with PowerUP since it was released and had no problems working on SCR.ESM directly, I haven't had to convert it back to an ESP yet

 

[Cathal]

It would be fun to have a few NPC's (either originally in FNV or some brand new ones) that could be enslaved and trained in an extensive way, meaning include breaking them in, changing relation depending on if player is cruel towards them when theyre enslaved etc.

[Kissinger]

I'd much rather get too much feedback than too little!

 

Ok' date=' it seems like my understanding of what you're working on was a little broad. But hopefully the mod will be richer for it somehow????

 

Few additional thoughts:

 

It looks like you're considering some kind of auctioning system? If not then I would like to suggest it. Door-to-door slave-selling is so passe.

 

I'm wondering if the slavers will be characters or individuals in any sense, also. It sounds like this might be premature/totally outside the scope of just a basic framework, but it might be interesting to let modders determine whether they prefer generic slavers to individuals with their own interests.

 

Sexout Lust Integration:

Wouldn't be hard at all, but I'm not sure what modders would do with it. Care to elaborate?

 

For roleplaying a character aroused by their slavery. If modders have the option to alter dialogue with masters based on player arousal, so much the better. But how this might work out is probably specific to the individual modder's design. It's probably something to consider at a later stage.

 

This should probably be left out' date=' I do not think I am the only one with a pipboy removal mod in their load order. This will most definately cause conflicts in game and serious QQ's for anyone wanting to use this. Not to mention that it is likely that anyone who stops using this and uninstalls the mod would then experience the no pipboy bug and not being able to access the inventory menu, map and so on[/quote']I would also vote no on this, or at least it being left up to the player rather than the modder. I would say that, as a rule, unless you're in a completely controlled environment (like Tranquility Lane in an unmodded FO3) you should not be taking away something so important to gameplay. A lot of mods have not switched over to MCM and you'd be depriving the player of their only method of changing settings.

 

It's the classic gameplay vs. story battle, really. Yes, the player would probably get the Pipboy taken from them in this situation were it real. But the Pipboy is simply too important to the basic gameplay to do that to the player.

 

Yikes! I didn't realize people had such strong feelings about the PipBoy.

 

I guess I would point out that slavery is supposed to be a "completely controlled environment," and that it might spur some more creative use of gameplay elements by modders, and might make for an interesting change of pace for players. And the idea that the pipboy is "simply too important to the basic gameplay" vastly understates what can be done without it, without really explaining what on earth you might need the pipboy for in a slavery mod anyways. Presumably you could always retrieve it with the rest of your stuff when escape, or when otherwise appropriate. And it would have always been possible to put a toggle in the mod settings, and have the mod default to keeping the PipBoy. But I can understand the technical arguments against the idea. I wouldn't want to be trapped in an agonizing reload cycle with a blank space on my arm where I'm expecting my PipBoy to be.

 

That said, it seems like the general consensus is against the idea. Which is cool, I'm not that attached to it. And if it's too much work to script, then by no means do I want it to detract from the primary functions of the mod. And the discussion can certainly go more interesting places, as it already has.

[Chase Roxand]

Auctioning system? Probably not. Controlling vanilla NPCs to get to the auction house would be too much of an issue and the whole thing would be a pain to code. Instead, the idea is that modders will populate a form list with possible slave masters or tokens. When the player is captured, a form is randomly selected from the form list. If it's an NPC, the slaver will travel to that NPC and start the "SexoutSlaverySellPlayer" conversation topic. The modder can define whatever that does (as in, what script runs). If the form is an item, the item will be added to the slaver and the script attached to the item will run. That way, the slaver can be controlled by other plugins if a modder doesn't want them to travel directly to the new slave master.

 

The in-game explanation for this would be that whichever slaver captures the player is working for the slave master that is randomly selected from the form list. However, if a modder doesn't like this, they can make their own auction system and just use a token in the slave master form list to activate it.

 

As for lust, this mod wouldn't need to integrate it. The lust variable is publicly available as Sexout.lust for any plugin that uses Sexout.

 

 

EDIT:

A bit unrelated, but does anyone know how I could add a warning "beep" when the player is near/outside of their safe area?

[Guest Loogie]

As an example of what the PipBoy means for core gameplay, if you're playing in hardcore mode without a PipBoy, you can't eat. Drinking could be worked around with a water source. All food in NV are inventory items.

[Chase Roxand]

I believe that Kissinger meant that the slaver would feed you (AddItem/EquipItem) while the PipBoy was removed.