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HDT short hair WIP


JN273

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Hey hey lovers. I just have to let out some steam in this weird way, so please bear with me, drink a cup of coffee and read. I warn you, this is me ranting like an old man. I'm writing this because I think I just want this to be said. You can seriously skip the spoiler and just read what's beneath it.

 

 

After dawnguard was released a lot of us modders were very horny about applying the Verlet physics to clothes. To most of our shame this little trick by Bethesda was probably just a test for their engine to see how it handles physics, though... well who knows? Oblivion had physics on the mythic dawn banners so...

Anyway, during my years with modding, though I've never been a big modder, I've done most there is to do, though almost everything I do is personal due to me hating incomplete projects. My vampire lord armor, that is a really mad mesh really is still haunting me and anything related to that. After this period of august 2012 when people really started to do some progress, most of us were dissapointed due to the fact that the verlet was so fucking hard coded that we couldn't really use it. I'm still a bit upset about that verlet cape over at Nexus reagarding the major reaction that got, when that was some old progress really.

So the time pass, nothing major happens, except that a certain chinese man makes some fine progress. This was very interesting ideed, but I coulnd't really particpate though I wanted to due to a lot of shit going on. Now 1-2 weeks ago I started to long for that good ol' modding, so I watched videos etc and got really into it. I seriously want to go into this modding again as an old user of both Nexus and LL, though my account here is fairly new, though I've been here during most of my "modding development years". Damn I'm bad at being social, but let's get to the good stuff shall we?

 

 

A while back I did this:

 

 

 

 

I like long hair, but I love this type of hair. Mmm... So as you can see, this is probably just stupid to have all these bones, but I really want a fluid movement. Anyway what I want to say is that; Nekros pushed me in the right direction and Canderes for doing a lot of great stuff really, but I can't do this. I just can't do this at the moment, because my 3ds Max is fucking bonked at the moment. And my main reason is Exams, Surgery and DS2. Yes I'm waiting eagerly for DS2 PC.

 

What I wonder if there's someone here on LL that I might do this with? Or if someone can be so kind to actually skin this baby? I know that's way too much to ask for, but that, exporting and doing the final in nif scope is what's left. Sorry for my ranting and I hope that I get some understanding and help. Thanks people and mod on!

 

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Hey hey lovers. I just have to let out some steam in this weird way, so please bear with me, drink a cup of coffee and read. I warn you, this is me ranting like an old man. I'm writing this because I think I just want this to be said. You can seriously skip the spoiler and just read what's beneath it.

 

 

After dawnguard was released a lot of us modders were very horny about applying the Verlet physics to clothes. To most of our shame this little trick by Bethesda was probably just a test for their engine to see how it handles physics, though... well who knows? Oblivion had physics on the mythic dawn banners so...

 

Anyway, during my years with modding, though I've never been a big modder, I've done most there is to do, though almost everything I do is personal due to me hating incomplete projects. My vampire lord armor, that is a really mad mesh really is still haunting me and anything related to that. After this period of august 2012 when people really started to do some progress, most of us were dissapointed due to the fact that the verlet was so fucking hard coded that we couldn't really use it. I'm still a bit upset about that verlet cape over at Nexus reagarding the major reaction that got, when that was some old progress really.

 

So the time pass, nothing major happens, except that a certain chinese man makes some fine progress. This was very interesting ideed, but I coulnd't really particpate though I wanted to due to a lot of shit going on. Now 1-2 weeks ago I started to long for that good ol' modding, so I watched videos etc and got really into it. I seriously want to go into this modding again as an old user of both Nexus and LL, though my account here is fairly new, though I've been here during most of my "modding development years". Damn I'm bad at being social, but let's get to the good stuff shall we?

 

 

A while back I did this:

 

 

 

 

I like long hair, but I love this type of hair. Mmm... So as you can see, this is probably just stupid to have all these bones, but I really want a fluid movement. Anyway what I want to say is that; Nekros pushed me in the right direction and Canderes for doing a lot of great stuff really, but I can't do this. I just can't do this at the moment, because my 3ds Max is fucking bonked at the moment. And my main reason is Exams, Surgery and DS2. Yes I'm waiting eagerly for DS2 PC.

 

What I wonder if there's someone here on LL that I might do this with? Or if someone can be so kind to actually skin this baby? I know that's way too much to ask for, but that, exporting and doing the final in nif scope is what's left. Sorry for my ranting and I hope that I get some understanding and help. Thanks people and mod on!

 

 

I would love to see your idea in practice.
I myself have no idea about it, but Yoo is probably the best contact for you.
 
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I just started trying to learn the ins and outs of HDT myself last week. I like your idea for adding physics to shorter hair. One thing you might want to consider forum looking at your images is how the bones will fall into a straight position taking the curve out of the hair when gravity is applied. Well I think that's what will happen any way. Oh and I'm willing help how I can with my limited knowledge and skill.

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You're a man after my own heart! I find short hair strikingly attractive and yes, it does deserve to have it's own HDT treatment. Hopefully someone will pick this up and builds on it.

 

Best of luck to you man with your exams, surgery (hopefully nothing major?) and DS2 of course :D

Real life can be hectic at times but hey. we pull through eventually :)

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...is how the bones will fall into a straight position taking the curve out of the hair when gravity is applied...

Hmm I understand why you'd think so, but from my understanding of Canders work and Neckros that doesn't seem to be the case. Thank you for offering your time and help mate! Do you have any experience of skinning? I want to do this myself too, but like I said my 3ds Max is acting all crazy right now and I can't be bothered right now to fix it.

 

You're a man after my own heart! I find short hair strikingly attractive and yes, it does deserve to have it's own HDT treatment. Hopefully someone will pick this up and builds on it.

 

Best of luck to you man with your exams, surgery (hopefully nothing major?) and DS2 of course :D

Real life can be hectic at times but hey. we pull through eventually :)

Haha I'm glad I'm not the only one! Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it! And don't worry 'bout the surgery, nothing too major haha!

 

 

 

Oh and I forgot to say that if someone would be so kind, I can upload the max file. But I'll try to talk to Yoo later this day and see if there's anything he could contribute with.

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If you do lose the curve of the bones you can try using JFF to add springs. Limiting the constraint can help you keep the curve, but it will reduce the movement alot, so if the result you get from max isn't what you want then just export the hair + bones then use JFF on it to generate rigid bodies and see if it makes a difference. I've never used JFF myself, but the springs do tend to move things back in position after they come to rest.

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If you do lose the curve of the bones you can try using JFF to add springs. Limiting the constraint can help you keep the curve, but it will reduce the movement alot, so if the result you get from max isn't what you want then just export the hair + bones then use JFF on it to generate rigid bodies and see if it makes a difference. I've never used JFF myself, but the springs do tend to move things back in position after they come to rest.

Thanks for the reply Canderes! Though I'm not familiar with JFF (I'll look it up), one problem I have is with my 3ds max right now. I have 3ds max 2012 student version if that matters. If I'm following your actions in your videos, some things refuse to "work" or rather I don't have the option to do that etc. If there's one thing that really bothers me, is that when I go into the properties of a mesh, when I go from the skin section to the mesh section the hairs position resets down at the ground. And when I look at the bones of the scene, I don't have that lovely + / - icons on; for example: the root. It's just frustrating when it's been so long since I did something like this, plus that my time is kind of tight right now.

 

But I'll take a look at JFF, but could you be so kind as to take a look at the max file? I'm new to HDT, so I'm not too sure about this stuff. 

Oh and I have the mesh of a head hidden in the file too. I know it's not good, but it was mainly for testing purposes if I'd actually bother to do a good one in the future, which I hope to do.

hairTest5.7z

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If your bones tool isn't allowing you to pick the bones like in the video you need apply the service pack 2 update its some kind of bug. I had to do this myself. The hierarchy display is an option under the display menu of the selection window its the show children one. As for skinning I'm not the best at it I tend to paint the weights with the brush I guess you would call it. 

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Save as in 2011 or 2010 I don't have anything above that installed due to HDD space, but I can tell you that the mesh being lower on the mesh modifier is caused when someone imports a premade hair and copies/pastes the skin modifier from that hair on a new mesh. What you want to do is collapse it it editable poly, on the skin modifier->collapse to, then switch over to edit elements and reposition the mesh if it still isn't aligned and then add the skin modifier for the bones. Check select from scene (h) and under the display menu there is something called display children; without it I think it causes all the objects in the scene to be shown as a list instead of a hierarchy. Do get the service pack I know 2010/2011 had a ton of issues too with skinning. 

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Save as in 2011 or 2010 I don't have anything above that installed due to HDD space, but I can tell you that the mesh being lower on the mesh modifier is caused when someone imports a premade hair and copies/pastes the skin modifier from that hair on a new mesh. What you want to do is collapse it it editable poly, on the skin modifier->collapse to, then switch over to edit elements and reposition the mesh if it still isn't aligned and then add the skin modifier for the bones. Check select from scene (h) and under the display menu there is something called display children; without it I think it causes all the objects in the scene to be shown as a list instead of a hierarchy. Do get the service pack I know 2010/2011 had a ton of issues too with skinning. 

Ah thanks for all the tips Canderes, I really appreciate it! I will download it and see if it fixes some of my issues. Thanks for telling me about the positioning too. I remade the bones a bit, but I don't know if this will do or not... But I made a 2011 version of it and it's uploaded here. I really appreciate your help man, I really do!

hairTest6 2011.7z

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