TomahawkChop Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Like the title says? I am having a hard time making a character because my new game character(custom race) only shows 100 hair and 52 eyes... but my old save has more than 300+ hairs and 100+ eyes ingame when I use changerace... so maybe there is a way?
gvman3670 Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Some races can't use all the stuff that vanilla (human) races can use. Make a vanilla human race. Why use a custom race anyway, especially one that appears human?
TomahawkChop Posted February 26, 2014 Author Posted February 26, 2014 hmm well.. you see I am using lovergirl race.. and in my 1st game all the stuffs that human can use(hair,eyes and etc) is in there.. even the mods that I added like SG Hair, Eyes.. but when I created a new game... it doesnt show.. but when I choose vanilla race it does show.. I tried another race also.. but no luck still stuck in 100 hair... and I think it only shows the first 100 hair? that is from a mod that I installed... and I use this custom race.. reason? is because it is cute imo lol
gvman3670 Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 I'm just wondering how Lovergirl is any different than Nord or ygNord. Is it really any different? To the point you can't make the same look using a vanilla human race? I've never noticed a difference in any of the custom human races.
Guest Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 I'm just wondering how Lovergirl is any different than Nord or ygNord. Is it really any different? To the point you can't make the same look using a vanilla human race? I've never noticed a difference in any of the custom human races. Custom races most often have their own custom textures, face morphs, hair styles, eye nifs, or tails, or ears, or unique traits. They also tend not to suffer from wrist or neck seams because the author has already done the blending work. But the main advantage of using a custom race is that you can change whatever you like about them; the body they use, the textures, the skeleton, their animations - no changes you make will affect the default vanilla races. Lots of good reasons to use one. edit: ygNord is a custom race.
gvman3670 Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 I'm just wondering how Lovergirl is any different than Nord or ygNord. Is it really any different? To the point you can't make the same look using a vanilla human race? I've never noticed a difference in any of the custom human races. Custom races most often have their own custom textures, face morphs, hair styles, eye nifs, or tails, or ears, or unique traits. They also tend not to suffer from wrist or neck seams because the author has already done the blending work. But the main advantage of using a custom race is that you can change whatever you like about them; the body they use, the textures, the skeleton, their animations - no changes you make will affect the default vanilla races. Lots of good reasons to use one. Yeah, I understand the different body/texture part. But beyond a different mesh/texture path there's not much reason to use on that looks human. Right? I can understand a Raht or something. That's kind of to be expected. But just another human? I've never just gone through the bother. I guess I try to keep it simple.
Trykz Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 hmm well.. you see I am using lovergirl race.. and in my 1st game all the stuffs that human can use(hair,eyes and etc) is in there.. even the mods that I added like SG Hair, Eyes.. but when I created a new game... it doesnt show.. but when I choose vanilla race it does show.. I tried another race also.. but no luck still stuck in 100 hair... and I think it only shows the first 100 hair? that is from a mod that I installed... and I use this custom race.. reason? is because it is cute imo lol This is almost certainly a conflicting race controller. Whoever built one of the races you're using did something wrong when they scripted the race controller quest. It sounds to me like someone manually added whatever race is conflicting to all of the HeadParts formlists. Trykz
TomahawkChop Posted February 26, 2014 Author Posted February 26, 2014 I'm just wondering how Lovergirl is any different than Nord or ygNord. Is it really any different? To the point you can't make the same look using a vanilla human race? I've never noticed a difference in any of the custom human races. Custom races most often have their own custom textures, face morphs, hair styles, eye nifs, or tails, or ears, or unique traits. They also tend not to suffer from wrist or neck seams because the author has already done the blending work. But the main advantage of using a custom race is that you can change whatever you like about them; the body they use, the textures, the skeleton, their animations - no changes you make will affect the default vanilla races. Lots of good reasons to use one. Yeah, I understand the different body/texture part. But beyond a different mesh/texture path there's not much reason to use on that looks human. Right? I can understand a Raht or something. That's kind of to be expected. But just another human? I've never just gone through the bother. I guess I try to keep it simple. Can we just stick to what I wanna ask? why do I feel this is going else where? hmm well.. you see I am using lovergirl race.. and in my 1st game all the stuffs that human can use(hair,eyes and etc) is in there.. even the mods that I added like SG Hair, Eyes.. but when I created a new game... it doesnt show.. but when I choose vanilla race it does show.. I tried another race also.. but no luck still stuck in 100 hair... and I think it only shows the first 100 hair? that is from a mod that I installed... and I use this custom race.. reason? is because it is cute imo lol This is almost certainly a conflicting race controller. Whoever built one of the races you're using did something wrong when they scripted the race controller quest. It sounds to me like someone manually added whatever race is conflicting to all of the HeadParts formlists. Trykz so is there a way to fix this? :/ oh wait... I think I understand now how to fix this tnx Trykz edit: I thought race compatibility will fix it but it seems I am wrong :/ so I should uninstall that race?
gvman3670 Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Can we just stick to what I wanna ask? why do I feel this is going else where? Sorry. I wasn't trying to go anywhere in particular. I was, however, wondering why it seems so many people wanna' be bothered to use custom races.
Trykz Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 so is there a way to fix this? :/ oh wait... I think I understand now how to fix this tnx Trykz edit: I thought race compatibility will fix it but it seems I am wrong :/ so I should uninstall that race? It doesn't use RaceCompatibility as a dependency? If it doesn't, then that's where things are screwing up. To provide a bit of insight, this is exactly why you should never use that method: Race Compatibility has a single significant task: to dynamically add races to HeadPart formlists. Manually adding a race to a HeadPart formlists causes the race to conflict with any other race in the Data folder (regardless of whether or not Race Compatibility is installed), because that particular race is over-riding those formlists. Two or more custom races cannot co-exist in a single Skyrim Data folder because all of them try to grab control of the same formlists, with ONLY the last loaded race winning out. There's also the issue of quest breakage, because the game cannot detect any race other than vanilla. Race Compatibility also rectifies that situation through the use of "proxy" keywords, which quests can refer to to ascertain the vanilla race the custom race was created from (the duplicated race). Though I've yet to see this feature work consistently in multi-race installations. The most notable issue is the cook greeting during the DB main questline, which usually stops ANY custom race right in it's tracks, and forcing the player to resort to the console to skip that part of the quest. What race is it you're having this issue with? It's any easy fix if I knew which one it was and where to get it. Trykz
Zquad1 Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 Can we just stick to what I wanna ask? why do I feel this is going else where? Sorry. I wasn't trying to go anywhere in particular. I was, however, wondering why it seems so many people wanna' be bothered to use custom races. one answer for ya----- Why not??? @ TomahawkChop The only way I can see loading up an old character is by making a note of what you installed & the Slider numbers in the race menu when you first made that character I right now can make my very first character because I noted all I installed to make that character. other wise I would just say move on & create a better character then you did before. here is a tip though, if you know what you installed.... un-install every mod that pertains to character creation & start with the very basic settings you used when you made your character other wise you won't get the look your after. then go back & re-install your most resent character creation mods. here is an example: say your using the Lover girls race but you made the character using race menu 0.1 but you now have race menu 10.a un-install 10.a & install 0.1 make your character, then install 10.a again.
GrimReaper Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 Can we just stick to what I wanna ask? why do I feel this is going else where? Sorry. I wasn't trying to go anywhere in particular. I was, however, wondering why it seems so many people wanna' be bothered to use custom races. Because you can make your very own special snowflake with a custom race. I only use the ygnord race that comes with ECE and everytime I feel it's time to try something new I can do that without changing every last woman in Skyrim into a pretty anime elf, a cat or a deer. It's the same with custom followers. If you want to quickly change the textures/meshes Lydia uses, you're out of luck. With a follower that has it's own meshes and texture paths this is not a problem at all, just copy and paste. I use the ygnordrace as a template for whatever I feel like playing, not as a fleshed out race.
Guest Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 Sorry. I wasn't trying to go anywhere in particular. I was, however, wondering why it seems so many people wanna' be bothered to use custom races. I know I'm only adding to the thread hijack, but anway.... No disrespect intended at all, but if you really can't think of any advantages to be gained from using custom race folders, you're just not that deeply into character customisation. If you were you wouldn't need to ask. A trivial example - say I want to have my nord toon wear a bunch of tattoos that I rip from google images - applying it to a shared dds file is going to have predictable consequences; the nord shopkeeper, her nord customers, and every other nord female in the game is going to be sporting my tattoo, and that really sucks. What I need is a separate folder that's referenced by my toon but none of those npcs.....custom race then. Some custom races are exceptionally well made, come with stuff I couldn't achieve without using a bunch of mods and doing some serious fiddling around in photoshop. I've used both Ningheim and Temptress as a base for lots of toons in the past, it's meant I didn't have to do a bunch of work outside of the game, somebody else has already done the hard parts. To answer the OP (and sorry for the hijack) - whenever I've had this sort of issue it's been because my setup has just changed, mods have been updated since, and I've usually missed some important but obscure step I discovered during the lifetime of the install. There's just no easy way to extract the attributes from a save and apply them seamlessly while taking all these little variables into account, some mods claim to be able to do it but they've never worked for me. Zquad has it right, it's what I do too, and I'd urge you to use Mod Organizer if you don't already because it makes the whole process of re-establishing your plugins a lot less of a pain in the ass. That and making a note of your slider settings will get you close to resurrecting a toon. Sorry that doesn't help you now though.
TomahawkChop Posted February 27, 2014 Author Posted February 27, 2014 It doesn't use RaceCompatibility as a dependency? If it doesn't, then that's where things are screwing up. To provide a bit of insight, this is exactly why you should never use that method: Race Compatibility has a single significant task: to dynamically add races to HeadPart formlists. Manually adding a race to a HeadPart formlists causes the race to conflict with any other race in the Data folder (regardless of whether or not Race Compatibility is installed), because that particular race is over-riding those formlists. Two or more custom races cannot co-exist in a single Skyrim Data folder because all of them try to grab control of the same formlists, with ONLY the last loaded race winning out. There's also the issue of quest breakage, because the game cannot detect any race other than vanilla. Race Compatibility also rectifies that situation through the use of "proxy" keywords, which quests can refer to to ascertain the vanilla race the custom race was created from (the duplicated race). Though I've yet to see this feature work consistently in multi-race installations. The most notable issue is the cook greeting during the DB main questline, which usually stops ANY custom race right in it's tracks, and forcing the player to resort to the console to skip that part of the quest. What race is it you're having this issue with? It's any easy fix if I knew which one it was and where to get it. Trykz well I installed lovergirl race first... I am sure before it is working perfectly with more than 300 hair and 100+ eyes.. then I installed TurndownXRace from jack.. because of the armors.. maybe after 5 months? ; v @ TomahawkChop The only way I can see loading up an old character is by making a note of what you installed & the Slider numbers in the race menu when you first made that character I right now can make my very first character because I noted all I installed to make that character. other wise I would just say move on & create a better character then you did before. here is a tip though, if you know what you installed.... un-install every mod that pertains to character creation & start with the very basic settings you used when you made your character other wise you won't get the look your after. then go back & re-install your most resent character creation mods. here is an example: say your using the Lover girls race but you made the character using race menu 0.1 but you now have race menu 10.a un-install 10.a & install 0.1 make your character, then install 10.a again. hmmm... sounds like... I will uninstall jackshop, and turndown race... well tnx for the advice.. gonna try it then... then maybe if it works.. I can install again those mods... like what happened to my old save before.. x.x
Trykz Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 @ TomahawkChop The only way I can see loading up an old character is by making a note of what you installed & the Slider numbers in the race menu when you first made that character I right now can make my very first character because I noted all I installed to make that character. other wise I would just say move on & create a better character then you did before. here is a tip though, if you know what you installed.... un-install every mod that pertains to character creation & start with the very basic settings you used when you made your character other wise you won't get the look your after. then go back & re-install your most resent character creation mods. here is an example: say your using the Lover girls race but you made the character using race menu 0.1 but you now have race menu 10.a un-install 10.a & install 0.1 make your character, then install 10.a again. That won't make any difference for the problems he's having with hairs not showing up. It doesn't use RaceCompatibility as a dependency? If it doesn't, then that's where things are screwing up. To provide a bit of insight, this is exactly why you should never use that method: Race Compatibility has a single significant task: to dynamically add races to HeadPart formlists. Manually adding a race to a HeadPart formlists causes the race to conflict with any other race in the Data folder (regardless of whether or not Race Compatibility is installed), because that particular race is over-riding those formlists. Two or more custom races cannot co-exist in a single Skyrim Data folder because all of them try to grab control of the same formlists, with ONLY the last loaded race winning out. There's also the issue of quest breakage, because the game cannot detect any race other than vanilla. Race Compatibility also rectifies that situation through the use of "proxy" keywords, which quests can refer to to ascertain the vanilla race the custom race was created from (the duplicated race). Though I've yet to see this feature work consistently in multi-race installations. The most notable issue is the cook greeting during the DB main questline, which usually stops ANY custom race right in it's tracks, and forcing the player to resort to the console to skip that part of the quest. What race is it you're having this issue with? It's any easy fix if I knew which one it was and where to get it. Trykz well I installed lovergirl race first... I am sure before it is working perfectly with more than 300 hair and 100+ eyes.. then I installed TurndownXRace from jack.. because of the armors.. maybe after 5 months? ; v hmmm... sounds like... I will uninstall jackshop, and turndown race... well tnx for the advice.. gonna try it then... then maybe if it works.. I can install again those mods... like what happened to my old save before.. x.x I looked into a few versions of JackGa's race mod. And that's where your problem lies. Pretty certain of it, and here's why I'm of that belief: for each and every version of Jack's TurndownX race, he has included the version of Race Compatibility he used to script the race controller quest. I also recall ygNord doing exactly the same thing. First, including ANY version of Race Compatibility with a race mod is utterly dumb. The only version that should ever be relied upon should be TMPheonix's latest version, as it's the only one that has all of the latest necessary changes to Skyrim's playervampirequest.pex file. And any Race Compatibility version that includes a BSA will almost certainly break every race you install "except" the one it was primarily designed for, or scripted with. The version of Race Compatibility used should be left to the user. NOT the race modder. When you mix and match different versions of Race Compatibility (a version you download with one race, and then overwrite with one included with a different race), HeadPart formlists are destined to get screwed up. Resulting in issues similar to yours, but not tied to hairs exclusively. It can also affect brows, eyes, and tint masks, as well as having gameplay repercussions such as the typical broken Dark Brotherhood quest. TMPheonix's version of Race Compatibility is the only version directly derived from expired6978's original version. Which incidentally, is the ONLY version I've ever known to work consistently among ALL custom races scripted with it. I've likely built more custom races than any other race modder around (20 or more, with another 12-15 WIPs in development right now). And each one of them works with all the others without conflict. And they work because I always build my races using TMPheonix's vanilla Skyrim ESM (which doesn't include ANY DLC scripting), and let the user pick the version of his mod they need depending on their DLC configuration as a requirement. Trykz
TomahawkChop Posted February 28, 2014 Author Posted February 28, 2014 @ TomahawkChop The only way I can see loading up an old character is by making a note of what you installed & the Slider numbers in the race menu when you first made that character I right now can make my very first character because I noted all I installed to make that character. other wise I would just say move on & create a better character then you did before. here is a tip though, if you know what you installed.... un-install every mod that pertains to character creation & start with the very basic settings you used when you made your character other wise you won't get the look your after. then go back & re-install your most resent character creation mods. here is an example: say your using the Lover girls race but you made the character using race menu 0.1 but you now have race menu 10.a un-install 10.a & install 0.1 make your character, then install 10.a again. That won't make any difference for the problems he's having with hairs not showing up. It doesn't use RaceCompatibility as a dependency? If it doesn't, then that's where things are screwing up. To provide a bit of insight, this is exactly why you should never use that method: Race Compatibility has a single significant task: to dynamically add races to HeadPart formlists. Manually adding a race to a HeadPart formlists causes the race to conflict with any other race in the Data folder (regardless of whether or not Race Compatibility is installed), because that particular race is over-riding those formlists. Two or more custom races cannot co-exist in a single Skyrim Data folder because all of them try to grab control of the same formlists, with ONLY the last loaded race winning out. There's also the issue of quest breakage, because the game cannot detect any race other than vanilla. Race Compatibility also rectifies that situation through the use of "proxy" keywords, which quests can refer to to ascertain the vanilla race the custom race was created from (the duplicated race). Though I've yet to see this feature work consistently in multi-race installations. The most notable issue is the cook greeting during the DB main questline, which usually stops ANY custom race right in it's tracks, and forcing the player to resort to the console to skip that part of the quest. What race is it you're having this issue with? It's any easy fix if I knew which one it was and where to get it. Trykz well I installed lovergirl race first... I am sure before it is working perfectly with more than 300 hair and 100+ eyes.. then I installed TurndownXRace from jack.. because of the armors.. maybe after 5 months? ; v hmmm... sounds like... I will uninstall jackshop, and turndown race... well tnx for the advice.. gonna try it then... then maybe if it works.. I can install again those mods... like what happened to my old save before.. x.x I looked into a few versions of JackGa's race mod. And that's where your problem lies. Pretty certain of it, and here's why I'm of that belief: for each and every version of Jack's TurndownX race, he has included the version of Race Compatibility he used to script the race controller quest. I also recall ygNord doing exactly the same thing. First, including ANY version of Race Compatibility with a race mod is utterly dumb. The only version that should ever be relied upon should be TMPheonix's latest version, as it's the only one that has all of the latest necessary changes to Skyrim's playervampirequest.pex file. And any Race Compatibility version that includes a BSA will almost certainly break every race you install "except" the one it was primarily designed for, or scripted with. The version of Race Compatibility used should be left to the user. NOT the race modder. When you mix and match different versions of Race Compatibility (a version you download with one race, and then overwrite with one included with a different race), HeadPart formlists are destined to get screwed up. Resulting in issues similar to yours, but not tied to hairs exclusively. It can also affect brows, eyes, and tint masks, as well as having gameplay repercussions such as the typical broken Dark Brotherhood quest. TMPheonix's version of Race Compatibility is the only version directly derived from expired6978's original version. Which incidentally, is the ONLY version I've ever known to work consistently among ALL custom races scripted with it. I've likely built more custom races than any other race modder around (20 or more, with another 12-15 WIPs in development right now). And each one of them works with all the others without conflict. And they work because I always build my races using TMPheonix's vanilla Skyrim ESM (which doesn't include ANY DLC scripting), and let the user pick the version of his mod they need depending on their DLC configuration as a requirement. Trykz meaning I should install first that race compatibility? and then install the races? without overwriting it?
Zquad1 Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 @ TomahawkChop The only way I can see loading up an old character is by making a note of what you installed & the Slider numbers in the race menu when you first made that character I right now can make my very first character because I noted all I installed to make that character. other wise I would just say move on & create a better character then you did before. here is a tip though, if you know what you installed.... un-install every mod that pertains to character creation & start with the very basic settings you used when you made your character other wise you won't get the look your after. then go back & re-install your most resent character creation mods. here is an example: say your using the Lover girls race but you made the character using race menu 0.1 but you now have race menu 10.a un-install 10.a & install 0.1 make your character, then install 10.a again. That won't make any difference for the problems he's having with hairs not showing up. yup your totally right, It won't help him figure out the hair issue, I guess I mis-understood the question a bit, my bad!! I am with you I too believe it's a race compatibility conflict.
Trykz Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 meaning I should install first that race compatibility? and then install the races? without overwriting it? Nope. BOTH races are breaking each other. They both need to be re-scripted so both of their race controllers can co-exist in the same Scripts folder, and work WITH each other, rather than conflicting with each other. If they include standalone hairs, then all references to them will also need to be removed from any HeadParts formlists they were manually added to. The fixes those races require, while easy, won't be quick. Basically, their ESPs need to be rebuilt from scratch to insure no residual formlist mistakes still exist. Race Modding is damn near a science when dealing with multiple races. Everything needs to be done correctly so each race can exist in a single Skyrim installation without conflicting. Essentially, EVERY race should be scripted with exactly the same version of Race Compatibility (TMPheonix's vanilla version ESM), and NONE of them should ever include it in it's package. Race Compatibility version should be left to the user, who can base their decision on whatever DLC's they have installed. None of my race mods require any specific DLC to function properly, because I don't set them up using any particualr DLC as a master. Which is why I created TCRA to build them from, because it includes ALL of the necessary changes for every DLC. Many race mods require Dawnguard or Dragonborn to be present, because they use basic duplicated races whose changes were made INSIDE the DLC they require. Which is stupid, because not everyone who plays Skyrim has every DLC, which means the mod creator misses out on all those potential users. In other words, you simply can't use both of those races in one installation until they're fixed. Sorry, Trykz
TomahawkChop Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 sigh.. after uninstalling the races.. and installing only the lovergirl race.. I am getting now alot of CTD before the menu comes out.. I tried use BOSS but still CTD... hmmm, zz this is suck a pain..
Rayblue Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Make sure that in MO you only have one set of Chargen active (the one that came with Racemenu 2.5) and not the other (Chargen Core 2.5).
TomahawkChop Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 lol, I ended up reinstalling skyrim zz.. oh well.. : / booh guess gonna be back after 1 day..
TomahawkChop Posted March 2, 2014 Author Posted March 2, 2014 meaning I should install first that race compatibility? and then install the races? without overwriting it? Nope. BOTH races are breaking each other. They both need to be re-scripted so both of their race controllers can co-exist in the same Scripts folder, and work WITH each other, rather than conflicting with each other. If they include standalone hairs, then all references to them will also need to be removed from any HeadParts formlists they were manually added to. The fixes those races require, while easy, won't be quick. Basically, their ESPs need to be rebuilt from scratch to insure no residual formlist mistakes still exist. Race Modding is damn near a science when dealing with multiple races. Everything needs to be done correctly so each race can exist in a single Skyrim installation without conflicting. Essentially, EVERY race should be scripted with exactly the same version of Race Compatibility (TMPheonix's vanilla version ESM), and NONE of them should ever include it in it's package. Race Compatibility version should be left to the user, who can base their decision on whatever DLC's they have installed. None of my race mods require any specific DLC to function properly, because I don't set them up using any particualr DLC as a master. Which is why I created TCRA to build them from, because it includes ALL of the necessary changes for every DLC. Many race mods require Dawnguard or Dragonborn to be present, because they use basic duplicated races whose changes were made INSIDE the DLC they require. Which is stupid, because not everyone who plays Skyrim has every DLC, which means the mod creator misses out on all those potential users. In other words, you simply can't use both of those races in one installation until they're fixed. Sorry, Trykz Thank you so much... well finally I have more than 300 hairs and more than 52 eyes.. thank for the advices.. and to all who help me.. and it seems there is a function that you can just save as preset the face of my first save and it can be loaded to a new one.. thank you so much
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