i don't care if you used ai. i care that you never opened the game

[BlackBoxMods]

saw the thread about ai in mods and it turned into teams pretty fast. code's fine, the art is usualy off, the writing makes you feel sick, the voices are taking someone's job i've read that same split on like three sites this month. honestly i don't think most of us can tell, and i don't think most of us are trying to. if it doesn't clip through the couch and the sentences don't sound like a warranty, you're not auditing the tool at 1 in the morning you're checking if the save still loads i've had handmade stuff die on the loading screen and stuff that was probaly generated just work. the label didn't help. what i can't stand is the description you can tell when somebody pasted a paragraph they didn't read. a pile of features, and then the file doesnt do the second one. you didn't open your own game. then the rest of us get to be the test team in the comments, wich is a miserable job, sorry.  if it runs, say what it does like a normal person. if it doesn't, i don't really care how you made it.

where's the actual line for you:

the art, the code, or the fact the modder never played it?

[NymphoElf]

All of it. I hate AI in its entirety. It is dehumanizing from every angle because it steals/mimics real human talent and dilutes it to something people can do with the push of a button. It's soulless and empty, and you CAN tell if you pay attention, but it seems not enough people care. Complacency kills, and will result in humanity's extinction.

[Count Chocula]

AI voicing has given us a voice protagonist in Skyrim. In the future, I want to be able to choose whatever kind of voice I want for my character in games like Skyrim or Fallout That will happen only with AI assistance. 100 years ago, people bitched about automatic elevators eliminating the jobs of elevator operators. We didn't stop developing automatic elevators just to save those jobs and we're not going to stop developing more sophisticated AI just to save the jobs of voice actors. That's just how it is.

 

As for "a line," the line is whether or not a game or a mod does the job I expect it to do. Why would I care if the mod maker never played the game if I like the mod? That's like saying I won't eat food heated in a microwave even though I am satisfied with its nutritional value and I like the way it looks and smells.

[NymphoElf]

3 minutes ago, Count Chocula said:

We didn't stop developing automatic elevators just to save those jobs and we're not going to stop developing more sophisticated AI just to save the jobs of voice actors. That's just how it is.

 AI isn't just going to take a niche subset of jobs. It can theoretically take them all. This is the exact kind of complacency that will end with our extinction. "That's just how it is" is not a compelling argument for anything. It's the same as saying "Because I said so". There's absolutely no substance or validity to it. The status quo only remains if you let it remain.

 

Too many people are short sighted and have defeatist mentalities.

[Grey Cloud]

6 hours ago, BlackBoxMods said:

saw the thread about ai in mods and it turned into teams pretty fast. code's fine, the art is usualy off, the writing makes you feel sick, the voices are taking someone's job i've read that same split on like three sites this month. honestly i don't think most of us can tell, and i don't think most of us are trying to. if it doesn't clip through the couch and the sentences don't sound like a warranty, you're not auditing the tool at 1 in the morning you're checking if the save still loads i've had handmade stuff die on the loading screen and stuff that was probaly generated just work. the label didn't help. what i can't stand is the description you can tell when somebody pasted a paragraph they didn't read. a pile of features, and then the file doesnt do the second one. you didn't open your own game. then the rest of us get to be the test team in the comments, wich is a miserable job, sorry.  if it runs, say what it does like a normal person. if it doesn't, i don't really care how you made it.

where's the actual line for you:

the art, the code, or the fact the modder never played it?

Well AI can write better than you so there is that.

[Count Chocula]

1 hour ago, NymphoElf said:

 AI isn't just going to take a niche subset of jobs. It can theoretically take them all. This is the exact kind of complacency that will end with our extinction. "That's just how it is" is not a compelling argument for anything. It's the same as saying "Because I said so". There's absolutely no substance or validity to it. The status quo only remains if you let it remain.

Sticking one's fingers in one's ears and saying "La la la I am not listening to progress" never accomplished anything. "That's just how it is" is nothing like "Because I said so." Automatic elevators didn't replace manually operated elevators just "because someone said so." It happened because it made business sense. Companies are in the business of making money, not in the business of making their customers happy and certainly not in the business of making their employees happy.

 

None of that means I think we need unfettered, unregulated development of AI technology. We definitely need regulation. Some jobs are going to be replaced by AI, just like elevator operators lost their jobs due to automatic elevators. And 100 years ago, there were people who said the exact thing you are saying now, and refused to ride on automatic elevators. Eventually, there were no more manually operated elevators and those people had no choice (unless they took the stairs). AI is going to keep getting more powerful and more sophisticated whether people like you like it or not. Which is why we need AI to be regulated. One thing we don't need regulation to do, though, is save the jobs of actors and artists any more than we needed regulation to save the jobs of elevator operators.

 

You and I are never going to see any kind of common ground between us on this issue (other than I suspect you also think we need AI to be regulated). So we have reached "agree to disagree."

Edited 6 hours ago by Count Chocula
Fixed a typo, replaced "says" with "saying."

[Grey Cloud]

19 minutes ago, NymphoElf said:

AI isn't just going to take a niche subset of jobs. It can theoretically take them all.

 

19 minutes ago, NymphoElf said:

Too many people are short sighted and have defeatist mentalities.

I couldn't agree more with the above quotes.

 

These billionaires are not doing this to improve the lives of regular people.

[tyran1]

45 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

 

I couldn't agree more with the above quotes.

 

These billionaires are not doing this to improve the lives of regular people.

 

why is this always the argument people fall back on? do you mind if I explain how the economy works real quick? I'll keep it simple.

 

billionaire only makes money when the masses buy their product. the masses only have money to buy products when they have a job. if the billionaires stopped paying the masses, the masses wouldn't have the money to buy the billionaires products, thus making the billionaire -- not a billionaire anymore. 

 

it is in their direct interest that people keep working because people need to make money to make the billionaires rich. same with the government, if everyone gets replaced with AI, no ones making money, if no ones making money, no ones paying taxes and if no one is paying taxes, the government doesn't have a budget. so this doomsayer "AI gonna take all our jobs, billionaires wanna get rid of us" talk, is the most childish, elementary lack of understanding of how the world works to begin with. we currently have laws in place that require companies to hire certain people, they can't turn away certain groups for any reason beyond inability to do the job. and you think that overnight all of that will just go away and every job will be AI? I think the AI hate stuff is genuinely getting worse than flat eathers, day by day. 

[Vyru]

3 hours ago, Count Chocula said:

AI voicing has given us a voice protagonist in Skyrim. In the future, I want to be able to choose whatever kind of voice I want for my character in games like Skyrim or Fallout That will happen only with AI assistance.

I 100% agree with this, i couldn't go back to silent dialogue when we have the option to have all our mods voiced and it's not like anyone will get the voice actors in a studio to record all the lines for our degenerate sex mods lolol. I get where @NymphoElf is comming from too and i partly agree that AI shouldn't and can't replace everything, but for some things like the voiceover example it's great and i wouldn't want to just completely reject the existance of AI and be missing out on it's benefits.

[Reginald_001]

4 hours ago, tyran1 said:

billionaire only makes money when the masses buy their product. the masses only have money to buy products when they have a job. if the billionaires stopped paying the masses, the masses wouldn't have the money to buy the billionaires products, thus making the billionaire -- not a billionaire anymore. 

Wow.. you really believe that don't you?

 

I am not religious, but there's a quote in the bible. It's there, because it's truth: 'To those that have everything, everything will be given, from those that have nothing, everything will be taken'

 

Let me tell you how it works: Money buys the power to make more money and to push those that make less money down. Money solidifies positions of power. This is called the Pareto distribution curve, and despite popular belief that this is a social construct, this is a natural phenomenon that you see everywhere in nature. Don't believe me? Space is the 99% and we are the .0000000001% alive in the universe. That is the Pareto distribution curve.

 

https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/engineering-mathematics/pareto-distribution/

 

And for good measure, a Scientific PROOF against your argument with this principle applied to economics. 

Trickle-down-economy is the biggest FUCKING LIE that rich people made.. (how ironic.. to solidify their position of power).. do you believe that lie? REALLY???

 

https://web.mae.ufl.edu/uhk/PARETO.pdf

 

Quote

 

Such easing benefits the well to do via increases in equity
prices and bankers against derivative miscalculations, but hurts the rest of the population
through increased inflation, near zero interest on savings, and larger deficits. The net effect
will be to increase income inequality even further in the future. It is urgent that this country
reduce the value of n to a more equitable value of n=8 . Some of the unbelievable prices we
are seing presently for luxury homes, paintings and salaries of CEOs, movie stars, and athletes
are a direct consequence of the trillions of dollars of fiat money which has been injected into
the economy in the last four years by the Federal Reserve. It has not helped the average
family whose real wealth has decreased by some 40% since 2008.

 

But please, continue to educate the masses with your wisdom!!

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Reginald_001

[Count Chocula]

14 minutes ago, Reginald_001 said:

Trickle-down-economy is the biggest FUCKING LIE that rich people made.

Hard to argue with that. At least hard to argue coherently with it.

 

On the topic of AI, apparently the AI poobahs tout something they call the singularity, when AI will become self-aware and magically solve all problems. Assuming that assessment of their beliefs is true, they are essentially banking on creating god. The wikipedia article I linked above says Sam Altmant and Elon Musk both say the singularity has already arrived. I think what has already arrived is their particular brand of snake oil.

[NymphoElf]

6 hours ago, Count Chocula said:

Sticking one's fingers in one's ears and saying "La la la I am not listening to progress" never accomplished anything. "That's just how it is" is nothing like "Because I said so." Automatic elevators didn't replace manually operated elevators just "because someone said so." It happened because it made business sense. Companies are in the business of making money, not in the business of making their customers happy and certainly not in the business of making their employees happy.

 

None of that means I think we need unfettered, unregulated development of AI technology. We definitely need regulation. Some jobs are going to be replaced by AI, just like elevator operators lost their jobs due to automatic elevators. And 100 years ago, there were people who said the exact thing you are saying now, and refused to ride on automatic elevators. Eventually, there were no more manually operated elevators and those people had no choice (unless they took the stairs). AI is going to keep getting more powerful and more sophisticated whether people like you like it or not. Which is why we need AI to be regulated. One thing we don't need regulation to do, though, is save the jobs of actors and artists any more than we needed regulation to save the jobs of elevator operators.

 

You and I are never going to see any kind of common ground between us on this issue (other than I suspect you also think we need AI to be regulated). So we have reached "agree to disagree."

 

You make some wild and reaching accusations of me in this post.

 

Asserting that we'll never see any common ground from a few sentences is extremely presumptuous and does nobody any favors.

 

I'm very hopeful that I'm wrong and that AI won't devolve into yet another tool of our rapidly dystopianized world, but the trend does not look good for that outcome, so I'm going to actively resist and warn people as much if I can. In this scenario, I would rather be "the fool who got worried over nothing" than the person who would say "I told you so".