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(WIP) Adding another Bone for Jiggle


blabba

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I was just curious and maybe wondering if the possible works:

 

Add a new Bone via JFF program to hdtDefaultBBP.xml and see if it jiggles by copying the same breast data to a new member.

I did a test run with NPC Belly Bone and ended up breaking HDT altogether as it simply didn't jigglify my whole entire body. (AKA HDT broke and all I had was static mesh not even TBBP animation jiggle)

 

I was wondering if this is due to a limitation in the actual HDT Physics Extensions DLL file.

 

In any case, it seems that the opposite works out just fine though. I can add as many collision detection zones tied to any number of bones the mesh supports. So I was successfully able to add pregnancy belly collision to the breast swinging...

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Lol I never got any response back but thought I should update this for the community.

 

I FOUND A WAY TO GET OTHER BONES TO JIGGLE!!!! :) :)

 

Currently working on getting the Belly bone weight to jiggle along with the breasts, it's very exaggerated right now and needs massive tweaking but for the most part works :)

 

HueHueHue, I'll upload a proof of concept .gif later hopefully...

 

For others looking to do the same thing:

Hint: Add a constraint from whatever bone weight you want to jigglify to both R Breast and L Breast (or L Butt and R Butt), objectify the shape as closely as you can and voila TBBP enabled jiggle for whatever bone and with tweaking collision can be enabled as well!

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Lol I never got any response back but thought I should update this for the community.

 

I FOUND A WAY TO GET OTHER BONES TO JIGGLE!!!! :) :)

 

Currently working on getting the Belly bone weight to jiggle along with the breasts, it's very exaggerated right now and needs massive tweaking but for the most part works :)

 

HueHueHue, I'll upload a proof of concept .gif later hopefully...

 

For others looking to do the same thing:

Hint: Add a constraint from whatever bone weight you want to jigglify to both R Breast and L Breast (or L Butt and R Butt), objectify the shape as closely as you can and voila TBBP enabled jiggle for whatever bone and with tweaking collision can be enabled as well!

 

I hope one day the jiggle physics will be perfected to the state where the jiggly parts all react to gravity realistically - they should sag and flatten towards the ground during "fun".

 

In other words, gibe jiggling bunda plox

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When you look closely at the hdt.xml files, you'll notice that hdt can work for more than just the breast and butt bones, but the .xml config was designed for those specifically :).

 

Hence, technically you can also make bouncing knees and what not. However, if the bone is missing in the .xml, I'm guessing some programming-savvy modder would have to take a look into the code and add the constraint info him/herself ;).

What you managed to accomplish is very interesting and I hope you'll share the .gif with us and maybe some more updates on your progress :D.

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Here's the gif of my crappy implementation of jiggle Belly Bone weight so far.

I tied it to the Butt Jiggle and haven't discovered the proper contraints needed to stop it from sagging down and becoming 'flat'

 

Hopefully a more experienced user can tell me what specific things I'll have to adjust to get rid of those problems...

 

 

 

HDT_test.jpg

 

 

 

I've attached my file that I used:

In order to properly test you'll need a TBBP Body WITH Belly weights!!! (Try TPSB or TBBP + Belly bodies)

This is by no means a finished product and is fully meant for EXPERIMENTING!

So please don't complain to me asking for a better jiggle or something, I can only do what I can do...

 

Edit: Forgot to mention, that this method would work a LOT better if the animations themselves manipulated the Belly weight. Sadly I'm no animator and consequently suck at 3-D modelling. So if you are an animator or know someone who can, pass this info along and see if they'd be interested (doesn't have to be for belly jiggle as Ryu stated, can be done for other parts as well)

hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml

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In order to properly test you'll need a TBBP Body WITH Belly weights!!! (Try TPSB or TBBP + Belly bodies)

This is by no means a finished product and is fully meant for EXPERIMENTING!

So please don't complain to me asking for a better jiggle or something, I can only do what I can do...

 

Awesome, this works, but it goes crazy with the meshes I have. What was your process of going about creating it might I ask? I do have the JFF tool, so I might be able to recreate it using the default HDT values (those seem to work better for my character).

 

Also, there really isn't any way of making the joint in the .xml a standalone is there? I remember attempting this with another custom .xml and it produced a vortex belly because of how the body mesh was weighted. I would rather not let the affected bone leech off values from another bone (like the butt) because it'll be better for fine tuning if it was independent. Though I know the JFF tool and ultimately the .xml files have to work in the confines of what the HDT plugin dictate, so it's understandable if it's an impossibility.

 

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When you look closely at the hdt.xml files, you'll notice that hdt can work for more than just the breast and butt bones, but the .xml config was designed for those specifically :).

 

Hence, technically you can also make bouncing knees and what not. However, if the bone is missing in the .xml, I'm guessing some programming-savvy modder would have to take a look into the code and add the constraint info him/herself ;).

 

What you managed to accomplish is very interesting and I hope you'll share the .gif with us and maybe some more updates on your progress :D.

 

Actually the marvelous thing about the HDT Physics extension by Hydrogen is that it works for all human bone weights that you have installed!

So if a bone is missing in the HDT.xml it's only because the previous modder who made that file just couldn't be bothered to objectify the bone weights.

All you have to do is add it via the marvelously crafted JFF program (you can manual edit it but JFF prevents you from inputting incorrect values).

 

At least that's how I enabled some Jiggly for belly (as well as forearm - but that was just awkward...)

 

Now I just need these 3 questions answered in order to get a much better grasp of the physics as well as to implement fully working bouncing belly (well okay not FULLY working bouncing belly as that would require animation support... but close enough)

 

1. Which way are the dang +x, +y, +z axis facing in skyrim :( I'm 3-D inept

2. I've more or less figured out where the hkpcapsule shapes start from I just need to find a better way to map them or find the necessary offsets...

    Reloading a save in skyrim to see my changes is simply taking too long and unfortunately my Skyrim mods were all installed with NMM (because I modded skyrim way before the wonderful MO tool got released)

3. what exactly do the different motor types do under the constrain section? I've figured out quite a few of the settings and their effects but I simply

    cannot see what the motors do :/ I've got a few more settings to figure out but that'll come in time as I play with them more.

 

 

Any help/suggestions/comments are appreciated!

 

For now I'll just be experimenting with what effects adding the TBBP (Breast01 bone weights) do with breast jiggle :)

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In order to properly test you'll need a TBBP Body WITH Belly weights!!! (Try TPSB or TBBP + Belly bodies)

This is by no means a finished product and is fully meant for EXPERIMENTING!

So please don't complain to me asking for a better jiggle or something, I can only do what I can do...

 

Awesome, this works, but it goes crazy with the meshes I have. What was your process of going about creating it might I ask? I do have the JFF tool, so I might be able to recreate it using the default HDT values (those seem to work better for my character).

 

Also, there really isn't any way of making the joint in the .xml a standalone is there? I remember attempting this with another custom .xml and it produced a vortex belly because of how the body mesh was weighted. I would rather not let the affected bone leech off values from another bone (like the butt) because it'll be better for fine tuning if it was independent. Though I know the JFF tool and ultimately the .xml files have to work in the confines of what the HDT plugin dictate, so it's understandable if it's an impossibility.

 

 

 

Hmm yea this plugin's breast jiggle is kinda loopy (same thing for the belly although that's to be expected...)

 

The way I made this was by opening up two JFF windows and Copying the collision detection values from the HDT.xml onto CLP's all-In-One xml file!

Then I added the Belly parameters and added constraints for the Belly in the JFF tool tying it to the Butt weights (I tried breasts but result was a lot worse)

 

To be honest, your best bet to fix breast spasming is to open up an HDT.xml file that works for your Body and copy over the breast paramters to my test version linked above. Make sure you copy the breast's constraint data as well! Then from there you can start tweaking Belly Parameters and Contraints :)

 

Hope this helps, If not let me know and I'll try to take some pics of what not to edit and what TO edit.

 

As for answering your second question, I'm afraid I honestly don't know, I'd need to read Hydrogen's Source code for the plugin to get a better understanding of it. But from my own tests, collision detection breaks jiggle for me when I link to the HDT.xml. That's why I decided to have both collision data and the actual jiggle data combined in the experimental plugin. This way I get both jiggle and <some> collision.

 

P.S. Can you let me know if my built in collision detection works for you? It only sometimes works for me but I think that's because my objectification of the body parts is incorrect for my specific body preset.

 

 

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1. Which way are the dang +x, +y, +z axis facing in skyrim :( I'm 3-D inept

X-axis should be right ( - ) and left ( + ), Y-axis should be backward ( - ) and forward ( + ), Z-axis should be down ( - ) and up ( + ).

 

 

 

 

In order to properly test you'll need a TBBP Body WITH Belly weights!!! (Try TPSB or TBBP + Belly bodies)

This is by no means a finished product and is fully meant for EXPERIMENTING!

So please don't complain to me asking for a better jiggle or something, I can only do what I can do...

 

Awesome, this works, but it goes crazy with the meshes I have. What was your process of going about creating it might I ask? I do have the JFF tool, so I might be able to recreate it using the default HDT values (those seem to work better for my character).

 

Also, there really isn't any way of making the joint in the .xml a standalone is there? I remember attempting this with another custom .xml and it produced a vortex belly because of how the body mesh was weighted. I would rather not let the affected bone leech off values from another bone (like the butt) because it'll be better for fine tuning if it was independent. Though I know the JFF tool and ultimately the .xml files have to work in the confines of what the HDT plugin dictate, so it's understandable if it's an impossibility.

 

 

Hmm yea this plugin's breast jiggle is kinda loopy (same thing for the belly although that's to be expected...)

 

The way I made this was by opening up two JFF windows and Copying the collision detection values from the HDT.xml onto CLP's all-In-One xml file!

Then I added the Belly parameters and added constraints for the Belly in the JFF tool tying it to the Butt weights (I tried breasts but result was a lot worse)

 

To be honest, your best bet to fix breast spasming is to open up an HDT.xml file that works for your Body and copy over the breast paramters to my test version linked above. Make sure you copy the breast's constraint data as well! Then from there you can start tweaking Belly Parameters and Contraints :)

 

Hope this helps, If not let me know and I'll try to take some pics of what not to edit and what TO edit.

 

As for answering your second question, I'm afraid I honestly don't know, I'd need to read Hydrogen's Source code for the plugin to get a better understanding of it. But from my own tests, collision detection breaks jiggle for me when I link to the HDT.xml. That's why I decided to have both collision data and the actual jiggle data combined in the experimental plugin. This way I get both jiggle and <some> collision.

 

P.S. Can you let me know if my built in collision detection works for you? It only sometimes works for me but I think that's because my objectification of the body parts is incorrect for my specific body preset.

 

Okay, thanks, I'll see what I can do once I get back to it.

 

Well, the breasts aren't too much of a problem, they do bounce loudly and float around afterward. It's the butt and belly that do the spasms--they are like on constant vibrate (I blame this on either the jiggle settings or the collisions). From what I can tell, the breast collisions are non-existent, but the belly/butt collisions are indeterminate (I can't tell with them spazing out so much). Hope this information helps though!

 

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Haha yes, thanks for confirming that breasts do indeed not collide (they used to before I added the belly as an inertia object)

 

Although for the breasts and butt I seem to get not as spazzy as you suggest (could be my preset though) but definitely after awhile they do indeed 'collapse' a bit or spazz out like crazy.

 

Mind if I ask what animations you may be using as well? (All mine are tested with 360 walk overwritten by Animations from Dragonfly TBBP)

 

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Haha yes, thanks for confirming that breasts do indeed not collide (they used to before I added the belly as an inertia object)

 

Although for the breasts and butt I seem to get not as spazzy as you suggest (could be my preset though) but definitely after awhile they do indeed 'collapse' a bit or spazz out like crazy.

 

Mind if I ask what animations you may be using as well? (All mine are tested with 360 walk overwritten by Animations from Dragonfly TBBP)

 

Animations are the default CBBE idle (it animates both the breast and butt nodes from what I'm aware)--the rest are either derived from SexLab or other animations (like Natural Breast Animation, but none don't use butt nodes from what I know of).

 

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For those more interested in the finer details of the animation/HDT plugin file proper:

 

Here's some helpful tutorials: https://dalyup.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/havok-tutorial-01-getting-started/

 

And the free download kit, which includes a visual animation debugger: http://www.havok.com/try-havok

 

I'm debating whether or not to take a crack at trying to setup the visual debugger and fine-tuning settings there, this would be require me to invest a lot of time initially without any immediate results, but if I get setup then testing new values/finding better values to use would be a cinch...

 

Meh regardless I hope references help someone out there.

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Just to clarify some things...

 

What body mesh is that?

Was it weighted for a belly bone?

 

What skeleton are you using? 

Does it NOT have a belly bone?

 

In JFF, you created the node & info for belly bone physics with all the parameters that it wanted and HDT plugin dynamically added a bone for the game. Is this right?

 

 

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Just to clarify some things...

 

What body mesh is that?

Was it weighted for a belly bone?

 

What skeleton are you using? 

Does it NOT have a belly bone?

 

In JFF, you created the node & info for belly bone physics with all the parameters that it wanted and HDT plugin dynamically added a bone for the game. Is this right?

 

The Body mesh that I was using for that specific gif at the time was an experimental mesh for TPSB:

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/25180-unofficial-bodyslide-2outfit-studio-tutorials/page-6?do=findComment&comment=650000

 

It was indeed weighted for the belly bone.

Thanks to Vioxsis, who smoothed out the weights and fixed alignment issues, I plan on releasing a CBBE Bodyslideable version in the next few hours of the TPSB body with some outfit conversions.

 

I also used the latest version of XPMS as my skeleton. To my knowledge it does have a belly node.

 

From my limited understanding of how Havok physics works and specifically Hydrogen's specific dll file: (This stuff could also be entirely wrong)

1. The node name needs to correspond with an existing weight painted area on your mesh if you plan on making it an inertia object

    - If the above isn't true, HDT breaks and all you'll get is a static female mesh

 

2.  The way the actual "physics" works is that the area that is weight painted (even if it is slightly painted) will be given the same physical properties as the simplified object that you define. (a.k.a the hksphere/hkcapsule stuff) The HDT plugin dynamically inserts this simplified 'object' into the Havok world (not seen in game) and interacts with other Havok specified objects.

 

3.  To get better/smoother effects, you tie the havok object to a MotionKeyFrame object (aka animated bones) via the constraints tab. In my case, since their are no belly animations (that I know of) I tied it to the RBreast and LBreast Inertia objects, which were in turn tied to the RPreBreast/LPreBreast. The Prebreast constraint definitions in the xml in this case act as an anchor for the Breasts (and Belly in my case) for them to 'snap back' to since those bones aren't animated/moved. Also I tied the belly to the Breasts because they have animation support that the physics seeds from. (BTW I found out later that tying constraints to the butt bones makes it far more stable/smooth)

 

There's some more stuff and details I've discovered (including what some of the other values do and acceptable ranges for doing specific stuff) but honestly I just kinda wanna finish the TPSB body before I try to further develop this idea. At least that way I can experiment with outfits too ;)

 

Sorry for long response, wanted to provide as much information as possible :)

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You can declare any standard bone as a collision object in the xml.

Did this (for me) with upper arms, forearms, hands anyway, and thighs.

With the right sitting the animation looks really cool.

The leg press the breast upward and the arms squeeze the boobs then inside and outside.

However, (therefore just for me - for testing) is hdt/havok relatively quickly unstable.

For me hdt runs with 8 CPU cores.

 

So less is often more. :)

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Thanks to Groovtama, I may get a new skeleton to play with and try the belly jiggle on!

 

Hopefully it will work out much smoother and be compatible with currently set animations :)

 

Anyway read the comments on here if you also want a better idea of how animations, skeletons and rig maps come together with HDT!

Also, if you use HDT download GroovTama's excellent skeleton! It's sooo much smoother! And no more deleting skeleton.hkx!

 

LINK

 

Edit: At some point when I have less on my plate I'll think about adding an [unofficial] guide here similar to what I posted for BodySlide except it will contain .gifs/videos of what each parameters do and share other HDT related information I have figured out throughout my testing. But that'll probably be awhile... (Or if someone else is interested in doing that and would like my help information wise PM me :P)

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Thanks to Groovtama who rigged up a custom skeleton file for me so I could test the belly jiggle!

Thanks to Vioxsis for creating the TPBS body which this was tested on!

Thanks to Monsto for this thread and HDT downloads!

Thanks to HydrogensaysHDT for his HDT physics extensions!

 

I have successfully made SMOOTH belly jiggle!

 

To-do's:

Tweak the jiggle to make it more refined

Tweak the TPSB belly weights (again) to make it look more 'realistically' pregnant (I say in quotes because realistic is subjective)

 

Stuff used:

HDTphysics extension

JFF + Sublime Text 3 (XML will be posted later)

Groovtama custom made skeleton (private)

TPBS body

 

I hope you enjoy ;)

I will upload my xml to the TPBS download page for any of you curious to try, but for now will focus on fixing the weighting of TPBS body.

 

Thanks to everyone for support!

(Ignore my horrible enb and bad breast jiggle)

 

 

17jw34qjgsnb122fg.jpg

 

 

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Test collision belly with sex action

 

attachicon.giftest2.gif

 

 

Holy shit... which mods do you have to have to get that effect?

 

I have the HDT all in one along with the beta body.

 

 

Link hdtm.xml to male body with SOS enabled and test.

I still have yet to try this myself actually xD

 

Edit: Also grab the skeleton file/hdtdefaultBBP.xml from this thread if you want optional Belly Jiggle:

LINK

 

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Do I have to link using nifskope? Or can I have the male equip the HDT object in game?

 

EDIT: Seems the actors are unequipping the havok object before sex... I even disabled undressing and they are still doing it...

 

Meh I personally don't mess with the HDT object stuff...

 

 

Unless you use an armor while having sex on your main char, you should be fine using nifskope to link to hdtm.xml

 

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