forced feminization TGQM

[MadAl777]

TGQM

View File

---

The mod adds a new quest and characters which will “push” the male protagonist to magical alteration of his body to feminine one.

I tested it on my build with more than 3000+ mods and everything worked just fine.

This mod is a logical continuation of my attempt to remake the YPTG mod for use without SL Hormones!

 

 

I give full consent without asking permission from me to use my mod in your own modifications! The only thing I ask is to credit me.

Thank you for your support!🙂 

 

The mod adds a new character named Lim. She lives in an Alchemist's Shack near Ivarstead. During a short conversation, she will offer the male player her unique potions, which give incredible bonuses, at the cost of... turning the male player into a woman (if he consumes too many of them!).

The main features of the modification now are that it has a ‘Memory for NPCs’ system, which remembers the player when they were a man and will definitely react to the fact that they have become a woman.
(At the moment, I have created dialogues and lines for NPCs with relationship ranks with the player ranging from -1 to 3, i.e. from enemies to friends and allies, as well as for members of the Dark Brotherhood and Jarls of Skyrim).

The second feature is how the character change menu is implemented. Now you won't be able to accidentally choose a different race and ruin your progress in game!

You'll have to start a new game for test this version!

Spoiler

To turn a player into a woman, all you need to do is disobey Lim's advice and drink three of her potions at once.

 

Hard Requirements:

Skyrim Anniversary Edition!

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/15109 For the dialogues for Lim (she has no voice-acting)

High Poly Head For Lim's face

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/6817 For Lim's hairs

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/106441 If you are playing on Skyrim version lower than actual on Steam now

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/46311 HIMBO FOR NEW MORPH SYSTEM!!!

SexLab P+ (I haven't tested it on Legacy SexLab version, so you can test it by yourself)

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/36869 SPID (Spell Perk Item Distributor) for NPCs recognition

 

 

Thanks for your attention, and remember that THIS IS A GAME, where u can do whatever u want to do!

 

 

 

 

---

• Submitter
  MadAl777
• Submitted
  07/08/2025
• Category
  Adult Mods
• Requirements
  Backported Extended ESL Support; KS Hairdos SSE, Fuz Ro D-oh - Silent Voice, High Poly Head, HIMBO; SexLab P+; SPID
• Regular Edition Compatible
  No
• Install Instructions

  Just install as usual mod in MO2 or Vortex or Manually drop to Data folder.

 

Edited August 9, 2025 by MadAl777
Update is out

[Commander_]

I have no idea what I just read. 

[MadAl777]

5 minutes ago, Commander_ said:

I have no idea what I just read. 

Well, maybe I should add some tags then 😄

[ebbluminous]

26 minutes ago, Commander_ said:

I have no idea what I just read. 

From the description, it looks like it adds a beer that can turn a boy player into a girl player

[MadAl777]

1 minute ago, ebbluminous said:

From the description, it looks like it adds a beer that can turn a boy player into a girl player

 

[Chaosdmd]

Is this permanent, or reversible without console commands? Or any chance you will add a female to male version as well?

[ArgyleSmith]

Bravo. 

I have no programming skill to speak of, but I hope you'll consider making use of Emily's "Thoughts" system as a means of creating a more immersive experience for whatever path you choose for story development.

If the modern modding tools permit, maybe consider a question progression centered on the player's actions and experiences.

Random ideas:

A visit to a Dibellan altar might prompt Dibella to gift the player with a fetish, kink, or a body modification
Jealously or feelings of attraction might prompt the player to seek appearance improvements=>YPS fashion
A traditional-style quest where an NPC recognizes the ale-induced sex change and seeks to somehow exploit it.
Would the ale affect NPCs? That opens a Pandora's box of sorts ...

Looking forward to seeing how this develops.

[MadAl777]

3 hours ago, Chaosdmd said:

Is this permanent, or reversible without console commands? Or any chance you will add a female to male version as well?

For now it's not. The main purpose of this concept mod for now is making script, which will "force" player to change, using game narrative. Probably, once I understand better the logic of Creation Kit I will add quest with choices like in Dibella's follower in YPS.

[MadAl777]

16 minutes ago, ArgyleSmith said:

Bravo. 

I have no programming skill to speak of, but I hope you'll consider making use of Emily's "Thoughts" system as a means of creating a more immersive experience for whatever path you choose for story development.

If the modern modding tools permit, maybe consider a question progression centered on the player's actions and experiences.

Random ideas:

A visit to a Dibellan altar might prompt Dibella to gift the player with a fetish, kink, or a body modification
Jealously or feelings of attraction might prompt the player to seek appearance improvements=>YPS fashion
A traditional-style quest where an NPC recognizes the ale-induced sex change and seeks to somehow exploit it.
Would the ale affect NPCs? That opens a Pandora's box of sorts ...

Looking forward to seeing how this develops.

I don't think, that it will be allowed to use Emyli's mod in mine mod. Maybe I'll add some kind of substitute of "thoughts" but later. Regarding the deities - I think I will use Hermaeus Mora as the "higher power" that force player to change. Because it was this Daedra who once interfered with the history of the world, forcing Ethelia to leave the game world, because he foresaw how she would destroy it. Recognition by NPCs, as well as their "transformations" is a rather difficult aspect. That is why, from the narrative side, I want to use Hermaeus Mora in the mod. He will just erase everyone memory about past of your character. However, I can try to add a couple of NPCs in the future quest, who will be forced to repeat the path of your "newly made" maiden.😉 And thank you for your kind words!

Edited July 9, 2025 by MadAl777

[ArgyleSmith]

43 minutes ago, MadAl777 said:

I don't think, that it will be allowed to use Emyli's mod in mine mod. Maybe I'll add some kind of substitute of "thoughts" but later. Regarding the deities - I think I will use Hermaeus Mora as the "higher power" that force player to change. Because it was this Daedra who once interfered with the history of the world, forcing Ethelia to leave the game world, because he foresaw how she would destroy it. Recognition by NPCs, as well as their "transformations" is a rather difficult aspect. That is why, from the narrative side, I want to use Hermaeus Mora in the mod. He will just erase everyone memory about past of your character. However, I can try to add a couple of NPCs in the future quest, who will be forced to repeat the path of your "newly made" maiden.😉 And thank you for your kind words!

Emily has the Thoughts system as a mod separate from YPS, in fact. And it seems new mods are appearing that trigger events based on various conditions instead of having a normal quest structure.
 

Regarding an NPC recognizing the player as changed gender, it seems to me that can be contrived, as with your earlier mod where the quest sends you various places to learn about being a chick. In other words, the recognition is contrived. Same way the Greybeards recognize the Dragonborn as one they may test for authenticity. 

No need to overcomplicate things! :-)

[MadAl777]

2 minutes ago, ArgyleSmith said:

Emily has the Thoughts system as a mod separate from YPS, in fact. And it seems new mods are appearing that trigger events based on various conditions instead of having a normal quest structure.
 

Regarding an NPC recognizing the player as changed gender, it seems to me that can be contrived, as with your earlier mod where the quest sends you various places to learn about being a chick. In other words, the recognition is contrived. Same way the Greybeards recognize the Dragonborn as one they may test for authenticity. 

No need to overcomplicate things! 🙂

Hm... interesting. I'll check it. Thank you for advice!

[KentuckyExpat]

I see that one of the requirements is a mod that provides werewolf recognition. Since my playthroughs don't have werewolves, go I still need it?

Edited July 12, 2025 by KentuckyExpat

[MadAl777]

6 hours ago, KentuckyExpat said:

I see that one of the requirements is a mod that provides werewolf recognition. Since my playthroughs don't have werewolves, go I still need it?

Unfortunately yes. This mod is installed in my build, so while working on creating TGQM I was "automatically" forced to make it required for installation. In the future I will try to make a version that does not require Growl, but this is not in my plans yet. But overall, Growl is a pretty cool mod - I recommend installing it, because it changes the gameplay for werewolves well.

Edited July 12, 2025 by MadAl777

[ArgyleSmith]

Hopefully BEES can maintain accessibility for us 1.5.97 neanderthals.

Congratulations on the early testing success.

Personally, I'm not enthusiastic about the HM memory fix. I presume that's to make programming easier, but the loss of immersion, to me, seems potentially extreme.

I asked for AI assistance to come up with a potential alternative scenario that doesn't demand a great deal in terms of work.

 

Spoiler

Got it! Thanks for clarifying that the modder is leaning toward the Hermaeus Mora godlike intervention scenario, but you’re looking for an attractive, simpler alternative that avoids such heavy-handed divine meddling while still fulfilling their vision of an ale-triggered gender change with immersive impacts on home ownership (including temporary loss and re-acquisition) and NPC/follower reactions. The focus is on making the implementation as easy as possible using current modding tools for Skyrim Anniversary Edition (AE) and Special Edition (SE), while keeping it engaging and lore-friendly. Below, I’ll propose a streamlined alternative that achieves these goals with minimal complexity, leveraging existing mods and tools to reduce scripting effort, while still delivering the immersive consequences the modder wants. --- ### Core Concept: Moonshade Ale with Bureaucratic and Social Consequences The mod introduces “Moonshade Ale,” a mystical brew that, after consuming a set number of bottles (e.g., 3), triggers a magical gender change via an Alteration or Alchemy-based effect, framed as a rare alchemical discovery rather than a Daedric intervention. The transformation causes NPCs to question the player’s identity, leading to temporary loss of home ownership and curious reactions from followers, which the player must resolve through simple, immersive tasks. This approach avoids godlike memory manipulation, keeps the narrative grounded, and prioritizes ease of implementation using existing modding tools. --- ### Implementation Details (Simplified for Ease) #### 1. Ale-Triggered Gender Change - **Creation**: In the *Creation Kit*, create “Moonshade Ale” as a potion with a custom effect. Use a simple Papyrus script to track consumption and trigger the gender change: ```papyrus Scriptname MoonshadeAleScript extends ActiveMagicEffect GlobalVariable Property MoonshadeCount Auto GlobalVariable Property PlayerGenderChanged Auto Event OnEffectStart(Actor akTarget, Actor akCaster) MoonshadeCount.Mod(1) If MoonshadeCount.GetValue() >= 3 Debug.Notification("The ale’s magic reshapes your form!") Game.ShowRaceMenu() PlayerGenderChanged.SetValue(1) ; Flag for NPC/ownership effects EndIf EndEvent ``` - **Tools**: Use *ShowRaceMenu Alternative* (SKSE plugin) to safely open the character creation menu, locking race selection to prevent skill resets. This mod is lightweight, AE/SE-compatible, and minimizes bugs. - **Lore**: Frame the ale as an ancient alchemical brew, perhaps tied to a forgotten mage or a Sanguine-inspired recipe found in a small quest (e.g., retrieving a recipe from a ruin). This keeps it immersive without requiring a Daedric Prince’s direct involvement. - **Ease**: The ale is a single item with a basic script, and *ShowRaceMenu Alternative* handles the gender swap, reducing scripting effort. Place the ale in a few inns or a single quest location (e.g., a chest in Bleak Falls Barrow) for simplicity. #### 2. Temporary Home Ownership Loss and Re-acquisition To make home ownership loss immersive yet easy to implement, use a single, reusable quest framework that temporarily locks houses and requires a straightforward task to regain access. - **Loss Mechanism**: - **Locking Houses**: Add a simple script to vanilla house doors (e.g., Breezehome, Hjerim) to lock them when `PlayerGenderChanged == 1`. Use a shared script to minimize work: ```papyrus Scriptname HouseLockScript extends ObjectReference GlobalVariable Property PlayerGenderChanged Auto Event OnActivate(ObjectReference akActionRef) If PlayerGenderChanged.GetValue() == 1 && akActionRef == Game.GetPlayer() Lock() Debug.Notification("The steward questions your ownership!") ; Start generic re-acquisition quest EndIf EndEvent ``` - **Ownership Pause**: Instead of removing the player from house factions (which can be complex), mark the house as “disputed” via a global variable, preventing access to owned containers until resolved. This avoids faction conflicts and simplifies scripting. - **Re-acquisition**: - **Single Quest Template**: Create one generic quest in the *Creation Kit* (e.g., `GenderChangeOwnershipQuest`) that applies to all houses. The quest triggers when the player tries to enter a locked house and directs them to the steward or jarl. - **Simple Tasks**: Offer easy, lore-friendly ways to regain ownership: 1. **Present a Deed**: Automatically add a “Deed of Ownership” to the player’s inventory during vanilla house purchases (requires minor edits to house purchase quests). The player presents the deed to the steward via dialogue (e.g., “Here’s proof I own this house.”). No scripting needed beyond a dialogue condition: `GetItemCount(DeedItem) >= 1`. 2. **Speech Check**: Add a Persuasion dialogue option (e.g., “I’m the same person, trust me!”) with a low Speech requirement (e.g., 25). Use vanilla Speech check mechanics for simplicity. 3. **Pay a Fine**: Offer a dialogue option to pay a small fee (e.g., 500 gold) to “update records.” Example dialogue: - Steward: “You don’t look like the owner. Pay 500 gold to fix the records, or prove it’s you.” - Player: Pay, Persuade, or Present Deed. - **Resolution Script**: On task completion, unlock the door and reset access: ```papyrus Scriptname OwnershipQuestScript extends Quest GlobalVariable Property PlayerGenderChanged Auto ObjectReference Property HouseDoor Auto Event OnQuestComplete() HouseDoor.Unlock() PlayerGenderChanged.SetValue(2) ; Mark as resolved Debug.Notification("You’ve reclaimed your house!") EndEvent ``` - **Hearthfire Homes**: For Hearthfire properties, use the housecarl (e.g., Rayya) instead of a steward. Add a dialogue option like, “You know me, Rayya—let me back in!” with a guaranteed success if the player is a thane, keeping it simple. - **Ease**: Use one quest template for all houses, with variables to specify the house and NPC (e.g., Proventus for Breezehome, Wylandriah for Honeyside). Limit ownership loss to 2-3 key homes (e.g., Breezehome, one Hearthfire property) to reduce workload. The deed option requires minimal scripting, and Speech/fine options use vanilla mechanics. - **Immersion**: Frame the loss as a bureaucratic mix-up (e.g., “The jarl’s records don’t recognize your new form”), reflecting Skyrim’s rigid systems. The re-acquisition tasks feel like natural consequences without needing divine intervention. #### 3. NPC and Follower Reactions To keep NPC reactions immersive yet simple, focus on a few key followers and use an existing mod for generic NPCs. - **Followers**: - **Dialogue**: Use *Relationship Dialogue Overhaul* (RDO) to add 2-3 custom lines for key followers (e.g., Lydia, Serana). Example: - Lydia: “My thane, you’ve changed! Is this why they’re locking you out of your home?” - Condition: `PlayerGenderChanged == 1`. - **Implementation**: In the *Creation Kit*, add these lines to a new dialogue topic under RDO’s framework, which is beginner-friendly and AE/SE-compatible. RDO’s existing follower dialogue system makes this easier than creating new voice files. - **Ease**: Limit to 3-5 followers to reduce voice acting or silent dialogue needs. Use RDO’s unvoiced dialogue templates for simplicity. - **Generic NPCs**: - **Pronouns Mod**: Use the *Pronouns* SKSE plugin to automatically update NPC pronouns to female post-transformation via the Mod Configuration Menu (MCM). This requires no scripting and handles most generic dialogue (e.g., guards, innkeepers). - **Generic Comments**: Add one generic dialogue line for city NPCs (e.g., “Heard you’re not who you claim to be!”) via a *Creation Kit* dialogue topic, triggered by `PlayerGenderChanged == 1`. Keep it unvoiced to avoid voice acting. - **Ease**: *Pronouns* handles 90% of NPC dialogue with zero scripting. Custom follower lines via RDO are quick to add (1-2 hours in the *Creation Kit*), and limiting unique reactions to a few NPCs keeps the workload low. #### 4. Visual and Audio Consistency - **Animations**: Use *Ex tumbled Female Facial Animation* to ensure female animations post-transformation, preventing male animation glitches. It’s a simple drop-in mod. - **Body Models**: Support *CBBE* or *UNP* via *Enhanced Character Edit SE* for seamless body updates. Test with *FNIS* or *Nemesis* to avoid T-pose issues. - **Audio**: Since the player is unvoiced, no changes are needed. Follower dialogue via RDO can use silent lines or repurpose vanilla voice clips for ease. #### 5. Tools and Compatibility - **Tools**: - *Creation Kit*: For the ale, quest, and dialogue. - *SKSE*: For *ShowRaceMenu Alternative* and *Pronouns*. - *Address Library for SKSE Plugins*: Ensures AE/SE compatibility. - *MCM Helper*: Optional for toggling ownership loss or reaction frequency. - *SSEEdit*: To check conflicts with *USSEP*, *RDO*, or house mods. - **Compatibility**: - Test with *My Home is Your Home* (MHiYH) for follower home assignments and *Hearthfire Multiple Adoptions* for family interactions. - Ensure house mods (e.g., *JK’s Skyrim*) don’t override door scripts by targeting vanilla FormIDs. - **Ease**: Using *Pronouns* and *RDO* minimizes custom scripting. The ownership quest reuses vanilla dialogue mechanics (Speech checks, gold payments), and *ShowRaceMenu Alternative* simplifies the gender swap. --- ### Why This Is an Attractive Alternative - **Simpler than Hermaeus Mora**: Instead of scripting a global memory rewrite (which requires extensive dialogue and quest state changes), this uses a localized alchemical effect and bureaucratic consequences, leveraging existing systems (Speech checks, house factions). - **Immersion**: The ale’s mystical nature, NPC curiosity, and ownership disputes create a lived-in feel, as if Skyrim’s society is reacting realistically to a magical change. - **Ease of Implementation**: - The ale requires one item and a short script. - Ownership loss/re-acquisition uses one quest template with minimal scripting (deeds, Speech checks). - *Pronouns* and *RDO* handle most dialogue, reducing the need for custom voice work. - **Player Engagement**: Losing and regaining homes feels impactful but not punitive, with quick resolution options (e.g., deeds) for accessibility. - **No Godlike Meddling**: The transformation is personal, tied to the ale’s magic, and consequences stem from Skyrim’s bureaucracy and social dynamics, not divine intervention. --- ### Minimal Effort Breakdown - **Ale**: 1 hour to create in *Creation Kit* with a basic script. - **Ownership Loss**: 2-3 hours to script door locks and a single re-acquisition quest for 2-3 homes. - **NPC Reactions**: 1-2 hours to add follower dialogue via *RDO* and enable *Pronouns* for generic NPCs. - **Testing**: 2-3 hours to test with *USSEP*, *RDO*, *NFF*, and house mods using *LOOT* and *SSEEdit*. - **Total**: ~6-8 hours for a basic version, expandable later. --- ### Alternative (Even Simpler) If the above is still too complex, use the ale to trigger the gender change with *Pronouns* for dialogue updates, but replace ownership loss with a single steward dialogue per house (e.g., “Pay 500 gold to update records”). Skip custom follower dialogue and rely on *Pronouns* for all NPC reactions. This cuts implementation time to ~3-4 hours but sacrifices some immersion. --- ### Final Recommendation Create “Moonshade Ale” to trigger a gender change after 3 bottles, using *ShowRaceMenu Alternative* and *Pronouns* for stability and pronoun updates. Temporarily lock 2-3 homes (e.g., Breezehome, Lakeview Manor) when `PlayerGenderChanged == 1`, with a single quest to regain ownership via a deed, Speech check, or 500-gold fine. Add 2-3 follower dialogue lines via *RDO* (e.g., Lydia commenting on the change) and use *Pronouns* for generic NPCs. This delivers the modder’s vision—ale-triggered transformation with home ownership and NPC consequences—in a simpler, lore-friendly way that avoids Hermaeus Mora’s complexity. It’s immersive, impactful, and achievable in ~6-8 hours with *Creation Kit*, *SKSE*, and existing mods. If you need specific *Creation Kit* tutorials or script snippets, let me know! *

Of course AI systems are far from perfect. This doesn't necessarily work, and large tweaks might be necessary to bring these suggestions in line with the mod creator's vision.

"Moonshade Ale"was all from the AI, btw. Not sure if the name was stolen from elsewhere, but I kind of like it.

I can help try to flesh out the quest storyline(s). And run ideas past AI to help estimate feasibility. I'll try to align my suggestions with MadAI777's guiding vision.
 

[MadAl777]

37 minutes ago, ArgyleSmith said:

Hopefully BEES can maintain accessibility for us 1.5.97 neanderthals.

Congratulations on the early testing success.

Personally, I'm not enthusiastic about the HM memory fix. I presume that's to make programming easier, but the loss of immersion, to me, seems potentially extreme.

I asked for AI assistance to come up with a potential alternative scenario that doesn't demand a great deal in terms of work.

 

  Hide contents

Got it! Thanks for clarifying that the modder is leaning toward the Hermaeus Mora godlike intervention scenario, but you’re looking for an attractive, simpler alternative that avoids such heavy-handed divine meddling while still fulfilling their vision of an ale-triggered gender change with immersive impacts on home ownership (including temporary loss and re-acquisition) and NPC/follower reactions. The focus is on making the implementation as easy as possible using current modding tools for Skyrim Anniversary Edition (AE) and Special Edition (SE), while keeping it engaging and lore-friendly. Below, I’ll propose a streamlined alternative that achieves these goals with minimal complexity, leveraging existing mods and tools to reduce scripting effort, while still delivering the immersive consequences the modder wants. --- ### Core Concept: Moonshade Ale with Bureaucratic and Social Consequences The mod introduces “Moonshade Ale,” a mystical brew that, after consuming a set number of bottles (e.g., 3), triggers a magical gender change via an Alteration or Alchemy-based effect, framed as a rare alchemical discovery rather than a Daedric intervention. The transformation causes NPCs to question the player’s identity, leading to temporary loss of home ownership and curious reactions from followers, which the player must resolve through simple, immersive tasks. This approach avoids godlike memory manipulation, keeps the narrative grounded, and prioritizes ease of implementation using existing modding tools. --- ### Implementation Details (Simplified for Ease) #### 1. Ale-Triggered Gender Change - **Creation**: In the *Creation Kit*, create “Moonshade Ale” as a potion with a custom effect. Use a simple Papyrus script to track consumption and trigger the gender change: ```papyrus Scriptname MoonshadeAleScript extends ActiveMagicEffect GlobalVariable Property MoonshadeCount Auto GlobalVariable Property PlayerGenderChanged Auto Event OnEffectStart(Actor akTarget, Actor akCaster) MoonshadeCount.Mod(1) If MoonshadeCount.GetValue() >= 3 Debug.Notification("The ale’s magic reshapes your form!") Game.ShowRaceMenu() PlayerGenderChanged.SetValue(1) ; Flag for NPC/ownership effects EndIf EndEvent ``` - **Tools**: Use *ShowRaceMenu Alternative* (SKSE plugin) to safely open the character creation menu, locking race selection to prevent skill resets. This mod is lightweight, AE/SE-compatible, and minimizes bugs. - **Lore**: Frame the ale as an ancient alchemical brew, perhaps tied to a forgotten mage or a Sanguine-inspired recipe found in a small quest (e.g., retrieving a recipe from a ruin). This keeps it immersive without requiring a Daedric Prince’s direct involvement. - **Ease**: The ale is a single item with a basic script, and *ShowRaceMenu Alternative* handles the gender swap, reducing scripting effort. Place the ale in a few inns or a single quest location (e.g., a chest in Bleak Falls Barrow) for simplicity. #### 2. Temporary Home Ownership Loss and Re-acquisition To make home ownership loss immersive yet easy to implement, use a single, reusable quest framework that temporarily locks houses and requires a straightforward task to regain access. - **Loss Mechanism**: - **Locking Houses**: Add a simple script to vanilla house doors (e.g., Breezehome, Hjerim) to lock them when `PlayerGenderChanged == 1`. Use a shared script to minimize work: ```papyrus Scriptname HouseLockScript extends ObjectReference GlobalVariable Property PlayerGenderChanged Auto Event OnActivate(ObjectReference akActionRef) If PlayerGenderChanged.GetValue() == 1 && akActionRef == Game.GetPlayer() Lock() Debug.Notification("The steward questions your ownership!") ; Start generic re-acquisition quest EndIf EndEvent ``` - **Ownership Pause**: Instead of removing the player from house factions (which can be complex), mark the house as “disputed” via a global variable, preventing access to owned containers until resolved. This avoids faction conflicts and simplifies scripting. - **Re-acquisition**: - **Single Quest Template**: Create one generic quest in the *Creation Kit* (e.g., `GenderChangeOwnershipQuest`) that applies to all houses. The quest triggers when the player tries to enter a locked house and directs them to the steward or jarl. - **Simple Tasks**: Offer easy, lore-friendly ways to regain ownership: 1. **Present a Deed**: Automatically add a “Deed of Ownership” to the player’s inventory during vanilla house purchases (requires minor edits to house purchase quests). The player presents the deed to the steward via dialogue (e.g., “Here’s proof I own this house.”). No scripting needed beyond a dialogue condition: `GetItemCount(DeedItem) >= 1`. 2. **Speech Check**: Add a Persuasion dialogue option (e.g., “I’m the same person, trust me!”) with a low Speech requirement (e.g., 25). Use vanilla Speech check mechanics for simplicity. 3. **Pay a Fine**: Offer a dialogue option to pay a small fee (e.g., 500 gold) to “update records.” Example dialogue: - Steward: “You don’t look like the owner. Pay 500 gold to fix the records, or prove it’s you.” - Player: Pay, Persuade, or Present Deed. - **Resolution Script**: On task completion, unlock the door and reset access: ```papyrus Scriptname OwnershipQuestScript extends Quest GlobalVariable Property PlayerGenderChanged Auto ObjectReference Property HouseDoor Auto Event OnQuestComplete() HouseDoor.Unlock() PlayerGenderChanged.SetValue(2) ; Mark as resolved Debug.Notification("You’ve reclaimed your house!") EndEvent ``` - **Hearthfire Homes**: For Hearthfire properties, use the housecarl (e.g., Rayya) instead of a steward. Add a dialogue option like, “You know me, Rayya—let me back in!” with a guaranteed success if the player is a thane, keeping it simple. - **Ease**: Use one quest template for all houses, with variables to specify the house and NPC (e.g., Proventus for Breezehome, Wylandriah for Honeyside). Limit ownership loss to 2-3 key homes (e.g., Breezehome, one Hearthfire property) to reduce workload. The deed option requires minimal scripting, and Speech/fine options use vanilla mechanics. - **Immersion**: Frame the loss as a bureaucratic mix-up (e.g., “The jarl’s records don’t recognize your new form”), reflecting Skyrim’s rigid systems. The re-acquisition tasks feel like natural consequences without needing divine intervention. #### 3. NPC and Follower Reactions To keep NPC reactions immersive yet simple, focus on a few key followers and use an existing mod for generic NPCs. - **Followers**: - **Dialogue**: Use *Relationship Dialogue Overhaul* (RDO) to add 2-3 custom lines for key followers (e.g., Lydia, Serana). Example: - Lydia: “My thane, you’ve changed! Is this why they’re locking you out of your home?” - Condition: `PlayerGenderChanged == 1`. - **Implementation**: In the *Creation Kit*, add these lines to a new dialogue topic under RDO’s framework, which is beginner-friendly and AE/SE-compatible. RDO’s existing follower dialogue system makes this easier than creating new voice files. - **Ease**: Limit to 3-5 followers to reduce voice acting or silent dialogue needs. Use RDO’s unvoiced dialogue templates for simplicity. - **Generic NPCs**: - **Pronouns Mod**: Use the *Pronouns* SKSE plugin to automatically update NPC pronouns to female post-transformation via the Mod Configuration Menu (MCM). This requires no scripting and handles most generic dialogue (e.g., guards, innkeepers). - **Generic Comments**: Add one generic dialogue line for city NPCs (e.g., “Heard you’re not who you claim to be!”) via a *Creation Kit* dialogue topic, triggered by `PlayerGenderChanged == 1`. Keep it unvoiced to avoid voice acting. - **Ease**: *Pronouns* handles 90% of NPC dialogue with zero scripting. Custom follower lines via RDO are quick to add (1-2 hours in the *Creation Kit*), and limiting unique reactions to a few NPCs keeps the workload low. #### 4. Visual and Audio Consistency - **Animations**: Use *Ex tumbled Female Facial Animation* to ensure female animations post-transformation, preventing male animation glitches. It’s a simple drop-in mod. - **Body Models**: Support *CBBE* or *UNP* via *Enhanced Character Edit SE* for seamless body updates. Test with *FNIS* or *Nemesis* to avoid T-pose issues. - **Audio**: Since the player is unvoiced, no changes are needed. Follower dialogue via RDO can use silent lines or repurpose vanilla voice clips for ease. #### 5. Tools and Compatibility - **Tools**: - *Creation Kit*: For the ale, quest, and dialogue. - *SKSE*: For *ShowRaceMenu Alternative* and *Pronouns*. - *Address Library for SKSE Plugins*: Ensures AE/SE compatibility. - *MCM Helper*: Optional for toggling ownership loss or reaction frequency. - *SSEEdit*: To check conflicts with *USSEP*, *RDO*, or house mods. - **Compatibility**: - Test with *My Home is Your Home* (MHiYH) for follower home assignments and *Hearthfire Multiple Adoptions* for family interactions. - Ensure house mods (e.g., *JK’s Skyrim*) don’t override door scripts by targeting vanilla FormIDs. - **Ease**: Using *Pronouns* and *RDO* minimizes custom scripting. The ownership quest reuses vanilla dialogue mechanics (Speech checks, gold payments), and *ShowRaceMenu Alternative* simplifies the gender swap. --- ### Why This Is an Attractive Alternative - **Simpler than Hermaeus Mora**: Instead of scripting a global memory rewrite (which requires extensive dialogue and quest state changes), this uses a localized alchemical effect and bureaucratic consequences, leveraging existing systems (Speech checks, house factions). - **Immersion**: The ale’s mystical nature, NPC curiosity, and ownership disputes create a lived-in feel, as if Skyrim’s society is reacting realistically to a magical change. - **Ease of Implementation**: - The ale requires one item and a short script. - Ownership loss/re-acquisition uses one quest template with minimal scripting (deeds, Speech checks). - *Pronouns* and *RDO* handle most dialogue, reducing the need for custom voice work. - **Player Engagement**: Losing and regaining homes feels impactful but not punitive, with quick resolution options (e.g., deeds) for accessibility. - **No Godlike Meddling**: The transformation is personal, tied to the ale’s magic, and consequences stem from Skyrim’s bureaucracy and social dynamics, not divine intervention. --- ### Minimal Effort Breakdown - **Ale**: 1 hour to create in *Creation Kit* with a basic script. - **Ownership Loss**: 2-3 hours to script door locks and a single re-acquisition quest for 2-3 homes. - **NPC Reactions**: 1-2 hours to add follower dialogue via *RDO* and enable *Pronouns* for generic NPCs. - **Testing**: 2-3 hours to test with *USSEP*, *RDO*, *NFF*, and house mods using *LOOT* and *SSEEdit*. - **Total**: ~6-8 hours for a basic version, expandable later. --- ### Alternative (Even Simpler) If the above is still too complex, use the ale to trigger the gender change with *Pronouns* for dialogue updates, but replace ownership loss with a single steward dialogue per house (e.g., “Pay 500 gold to update records”). Skip custom follower dialogue and rely on *Pronouns* for all NPC reactions. This cuts implementation time to ~3-4 hours but sacrifices some immersion. --- ### Final Recommendation Create “Moonshade Ale” to trigger a gender change after 3 bottles, using *ShowRaceMenu Alternative* and *Pronouns* for stability and pronoun updates. Temporarily lock 2-3 homes (e.g., Breezehome, Lakeview Manor) when `PlayerGenderChanged == 1`, with a single quest to regain ownership via a deed, Speech check, or 500-gold fine. Add 2-3 follower dialogue lines via *RDO* (e.g., Lydia commenting on the change) and use *Pronouns* for generic NPCs. This delivers the modder’s vision—ale-triggered transformation with home ownership and NPC consequences—in a simpler, lore-friendly way that avoids Hermaeus Mora’s complexity. It’s immersive, impactful, and achievable in ~6-8 hours with *Creation Kit*, *SKSE*, and existing mods. If you need specific *Creation Kit* tutorials or script snippets, let me know! *

Of course AI systems are far from perfect. This doesn't necessarily work, and large tweaks might be necessary to bring these suggestions in line with the mod creator's vision.

"Moonshade Ale"was all from the AI, btw. Not sure if the name was stolen from elsewhere, but I kind of like it.

I can help try to flesh out the quest storyline(s). And run ideas past AI to help estimate feasibility. I'll try to align my suggestions with MadAI777's guiding vision.
 

Thank you very much for your kind words!
I think that as long as you have Growl and Survival Mode, the mod should work for you, since the .esp actually contains only 2 objects (ale and potion).
Regarding the narrative: I initially really wanted to use the idea of Daedra intervention (as it was already in TESO with Ethelia and Hermaeus Mora. However, later I remembered that in Morrowind there was a concept of "Chim", which in fact implied that some of the game's heroes "know" that they are characters in the game. I think that this version will be much easier to implement. As for the MessageBoxes themselves, I decided to make them more utilitarian, since a more "intimate" description can be made through a quest (as it was in the YPTG mod) with all the lush descriptions of how the main character is in shock (with all beauties of female curves)

[ArgyleSmith]

2 hours ago, MadAl777 said:

Regarding the narrative: I initially really wanted to use the idea of Daedra intervention (as it was already in TESO with Ethelia and Hermaeus Mora. However, later I remembered that in Morrowind there was a concept of "Chim", which in fact implied that some of the game's heroes "know" that they are characters in the game. I think that this version will be much easier to implement. As for the MessageBoxes themselves, I decided to make them more utilitarian, since a more "intimate" description can be made through a quest (as it was in the YPTG mod) with all the lush descriptions of how the main character is in shock (with all beauties of female curves)

The more skeleton I have from you the better I can put flesh on it.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:CHIM
 

I have no idea how to make use of the CHIM concept in terms of this mod.

Cheers!

[XELENS]

How does the "end result" look?

[MadAl777]

4 hours ago, XELENS said:

How does the "end result" look?

Pardon, end result of what? If you are interested about the quest - I'm fighting with CK right now (dialogues xdd). I think I'll upload a new version today.🙂

[XELENS]

24 minutes ago, MadAl777 said:

Pardon, end result of what? If you are interested about the quest - I'm fighting with CK right now (dialogues xdd). I think I'll upload a new version today.🙂

Sounds like I got it all wrong; thought it had something to do with feminization or a total male to female conversion. ^^

[MadAl777]

6 minutes ago, XELENS said:

Sounds like I got it all wrong; thought it had something to do with feminization or a total male to female conversion. ^^

It will be like you think (probably it is already like this right now) but u will have an "antidote" but only for 24 hours, You can test it in game already!

[KentuckyExpat]

Crap. I see that I need to have Survival Mode installed. I really don't want it since it conflicts with my play style. I have a tendency to have my PC immerse him or herself in ice water for sometimes extended periods (swimming from shore to the various islands in the Sea of Ghosts), which probably will kill me with Survival Mode enabled. Also, I'm not really interested in eating/drinking as a constant need. Again probably contraindicated with Survival Mode. As far as I'm concerned, eating/drinking is something that happens in the background, much like never having to repair your armor and still have it providing protection (for those not familiar with Oblivion, that was something the PC had to do, either by using Repair Hammers or by having an armorer do it.)

 

BTW, am I correct that Modex is used as just an 'AdddItemMenu' replacer or does it provide some other function? The reason I ask is that I downloaded Modex into my game and when I opened it my first response was WTH! This is way more complex than I need to simply grab an item out of an esp.

[MadAl777]

16 hours ago, KentuckyExpat said:

Crap. I see that I need to have Survival Mode installed. I really don't want it since it conflicts with my play style. I have a tendency to have my PC immerse him or herself in ice water for sometimes extended periods (swimming from shore to the various islands in the Sea of Ghosts), which probably will kill me with Survival Mode enabled. Also, I'm not really interested in eating/drinking as a constant need. Again probably contraindicated with Survival Mode. As far as I'm concerned, eating/drinking is something that happens in the background, much like never having to repair your armor and still have it providing protection (for those not familiar with Oblivion, that was something the PC had to do, either by using Repair Hammers or by having an armorer do it.)

 

BTW, am I correct that Modex is used as just an 'AdddItemMenu' replacer or does it provide some other function? The reason I ask is that I downloaded Modex into my game and when I opened it my first response was WTH! This is way more complex than I need to simply grab an item out of an esp.

Oh, sorry for the inconvenience! I already foresaw such compatibility issues. Technically, you don't need Survival Mode active. Just load it into the game and turn on .esp. As for Modex - yes, it is an alternative to AddItemMenu. You can use any option convenient for you! In the next update I'll remove growl requirement and survival mode!  I planned to update the mod earlier but this dialogue system of Creation Kit is a mess for novice like me.

Edited July 28, 2025 by MadAl777

[KentuckyExpat]

3 hours ago, MadAl777 said:

Oh, sorry for the inconvenience! I already foresaw such compatibility issues. Technically, you don't need Survival Mode active. Just load it into the game and turn on .esp. As for Modex - yes, it is an alternative to AddItemMenu. You can use any option convenient for you! In the next update I'll remove growl requirement and survival mode!  I planned to update the mod earlier but this dialogue system of Creation Kit is a mess for novice like me.

Appreciate both your quick response and your understanding. I really want to use your mod if only to see how it stacks up compared to others. 

[KentuckyExpat]

Just created a new character and started a new playthrough. Early on I went through the transformation to see how you set it up. Pretty straightforward. I have a question for you. If someone were to create two character presets as part of a new playthrough, one male, one female; and began the playthrough as a male; how difficult would it be to have the female preset automatically load once the male drinks enough 'Strange Ale'? The way I see it, drinking the triggering ale would cause a swirly lighting effect along with a text box describing what is happening*. This would take a few seconds and when the swirly light effect fades the female preset appears in place of the male. This would create a much more immersive effect.

 

* Suggestion for the text box

 

Spoiler

Suddenly, your legs give out and you fall to the floor. Paralyzed, you begin to experience very strange sensations throughout your body. Your hips seem to broaden, pressing against your pants of your armor. Your chest is pressing against the inside of your cuirass while the top of the cuirass no longer touches your shoulders, as your shoulders have narrowed.

 

As these sensations continue, you feel something happening in your abdomen. The sensations feel almost like an upset stomach but it covers your entire abdomen down to your groin. There also a mild sensation like something is gently pressing against your intestines.

 

After a while, these sensations ease off and you again gain control of your body. You try to stand up. As you do so, you find yourself feeling slightly dizzy and your sense of balance feels off kilter. There is an unfamiliar weight dragging on your chest and your armor doesn’t fit right. You begin to remove your armor, starting with your cuirass. As you unfasten it and pull it off, you look down at your chest. BY THE GODS!! What’s this?!! I have breasts!! As you frantically try to slide your pants down you realize that your hips have broadened and as they fall to the floor… Horror of Horrors!! Your penis is gone, replaced by a vagina!! What was in that ale?!

 

 

[MadAl777]

1 hour ago, KentuckyExpat said:

Just created a new character and started a new playthrough. Early on I went through the transformation to see how you set it up. Pretty straightforward. I have a question for you. If someone were to create two character presets as part of a new playthrough, one male, one female; and began the playthrough as a male; how difficult would it be to have the female preset automatically load once the male drinks enough 'Strange Ale'? The way I see it, drinking the triggering ale would cause a swirly lighting effect along with a text box describing what is happening*. This would take a few seconds and when the swirly light effect fades the female preset appears in place of the male. This would create a much more immersive effect.

 

* Suggestion for the text box

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Suddenly, your legs give out and you fall to the floor. Paralyzed, you begin to experience very strange sensations throughout your body. Your hips seem to broaden, pressing against your pants of your armor. Your chest is pressing against the inside of your cuirass while the top of the cuirass no longer touches your shoulders, as your shoulders have narrowed.

 

As these sensations continue, you feel something happening in your abdomen. The sensations feel almost like an upset stomach but it covers your entire abdomen down to your groin. There also a mild sensation like something is gently pressing against your intestines.

 

After a while, these sensations ease off and you again gain control of your body. You try to stand up. As you do so, you find yourself feeling slightly dizzy and your sense of balance feels off kilter. There is an unfamiliar weight dragging on your chest and your armor doesn’t fit right. You begin to remove your armor, starting with your cuirass. As you unfasten it and pull it off, you look down at your chest. BY THE GODS!! What’s this?!! I have breasts!! As you frantically try to slide your pants down you realize that your hips have broadened and as they fall to the floor… Horror of Horrors!! Your penis is gone, replaced by a vagina!! What was in that ale?!

 

 

Thank you for your kind words in previous message! Unfortunately, for now I don't have this much skill in CK and papyrus to make smth like this. I know that there is a mod called True Form Curse (I guess), which provide this kind of function, but it's waaaaay to laggy (at least on my setup). So for now I can only provide this type of implementation  But I'll look through!