More dumb questions for new installation. CBPC >>> AND >>> SMP?

[anjenthedog]

RE: reinstalling skyrim from scratch - continued

 

Please bear with me. if you've read my drivel before, you know I'm wordy.... just trying to cover the background to avoid unnecessary Q&A and save us both some time

 

The way my previous setup worked,  I had both of the original versions of CBBE-3BBB and BHUNP installed.

 

Due to the oddity and ~complexity of having both body types  installed and working, I religiously avoided updating either, to avoid breaking them (had broken many times before I got the two playing nicely with each other, but that was ~4 years ago and memory fades)

 

As a result of using the original versions so long, I have zero experience with the current versions of either  (3BA v2, BHUNP v2, v3...etc) body types, outside second-hand info from various passing threads, mixed with common sense. 

 

I don't plan on installing either of the original versions, and probably will just stick with one type this time

 

Anyway, when I was using those two, I had both CBPC and SMP available at all times, (hotkey between CBPC and SMP), and I got used to it, even capitalized on it for situationally reduced load by switching out to CBPC except when I wanted it SMP.

 

So....... I recall seeing many threads over the past few years, that, paraphrasing, said "Pick one or the other dude when installing, one or the other" regarding CBPC vs SMP. and I didn't pay much attention, because I really had no personal need to know the finer details for the newer iterations of the body types, but I do remember it being said in advise responses to various threads like it was a mantra.

 

Is that The Rule these days for the current versions of CBBE-3BA and BHUNP? Or, alternatively,  can you still have both CBPC and SMP available (one or the other ACTIVE, not both at once, ftr) on the fly and switch using a hot key, like you used to be able to do? 

Edited February 5, 2025 by anjenthedog
dtails

[B3juc0]

You can have both... when you install 3BA for example the FOMOD will ask you this at the beginning... Do you want SMP Breast, or SMP Vagina, the rest is CBPC (So when you switch to SMP only the Breast are SMP the rest is still CBPC). BHUNP has a better MCM as far as options vs 3BA... and both bodies look ancient compared to UBE (High-poly body based on DAZ 8.1). UBE runs 3BA physics and can be further customized if you go to their Discord... but that's not what your asking (Just putting it out there for the more experienced users since UBE is more complex).   

[danna233]

Both of course. You need both physics. CBPC for collisions, body physics. SMP for hair, clothes.

[traison]

The key is to not have them both affect the same bone/node. Whether a solution like that comes in a pre-packaged box or not I do not know - I use my own toys. I'm going to +1 danna233's comment: CBPC for body, SMP for hair and clothes.

[anjenthedog]

8 hours ago, danna233 said:

Both of course. You need both physics. CBPC for collisions, body physics. SMP for hair, clothes.

Hair and clothes I get. They've always been hdt assets (or smp if you prefer), at least wrt hair with hdt/smp performance, (not referring to the static hair of "long ago")

 

I meant switching on the fly between CBPC and SMP body physics, not the peripherals (Hair clothing, jewelry). As I noted, in the older iterations of both body types, SMP and CBCP body physics was still on the table, ie both could be fully installed during the fomod stage,  and both could be used in game by switching with an assigned hotkey, (although not simultaneously active effects of course)

 

Are you suggesting that that's not the case any more, that you have to choose one or the other during installation, or only some subset is still allowable?

Edited February 5, 2025 by anjenthedog

[danna233]

7 minutes ago, anjenthedog said:

Are you suggesting that that's not the case any more, that you have to choose one or the other during installation, or only some subset is still allowable?

In any case, you need both physics Faster HDT-SMP and CBPC. And how you will apply them in the body is at your discretion. When installing the 3BA body, you will be asked in detail which physics you want to apply to which part of the body. Regarding the hot key, 3BA has one.

[anjenthedog]

@danna233, Yep, I am completely and fully and totally aware of FSMP requirements. CBPC requirements, CBBE requirements  (if I choose a CBBE-3BA variant body type) as well as all the other dependencies required by Skyrim SE for various mods, etc.  I've been playing since 2019 and had over 700 mods installed at the time my last install died, (due to a Steam crash and subsequent actions taken as a direct result of vague, obtuse, misleading Steam and Nexus support).

 

PS> just in case, I'm also fully versed in Bodyslide and using Racemenu, so you don't need to guide me on those aspects either. I was just asking if the newer version of the body types fully support CBPC AND SMP (which I've discovered they don't, from another respondent)

Edited February 5, 2025 by anjenthedog

[anjenthedog]

15 hours ago, B3juc0 said:

You can have both... when you install 3BA for example the FOMOD will ask you this at the beginning... Do you want SMP Breast, or SMP Vagina, the rest is CBPC (So when you switch to SMP only the Breast are SMP the rest is still CBPC). BHUNP has a better MCM as far as options vs 3BA... and both bodies look ancient compared to UBE (High-poly body based on DAZ 8.1). UBE runs 3BA physics and can be further customized if you go to their Discord... but that's not what your asking (Just putting it out there for the more experienced users since UBE is more complex).   

Ok so it's not as fully featured as the old body types were. Thanks for the clear answer. Appreciated. 

 

And yep, I know UBE is the new "bomb", and I'd probably choose it, but I'm wary about limited clothing and armor choices. 

Edited February 5, 2025 by anjenthedog

[belegost]

UBE doesn't have the sheer number of apparel that 3BA or BHUNP does. It may or may not look better, but that's irrelevant if you don't have the same options.

[B3juc0]

Most of the outfits and mods are in the discord (Not Nexus or here). 

[anjenthedog]

27 minutes ago, B3juc0 said:

Most of the outfits and mods are in the discord (Not Nexus or here). 

good point... 

 

I favor a custom set made up of bits and pieces from various mods for my female players, often over a dozen different mods contribute to a single outfit, sometimes as many as two dozen, so a large palette of mods is important to me, so thanks for that reminder.  Even if I "know" about it,  Discord isn't something my mind automatically thinks of... 

 

I like the detailing and degree of realism that UBE offers, but for now I think I'm just going to "suffer' with either BHUNP or CBBE-3BA in whichever version they've progressed to, both of which I'm familiar with as bodytype families, and which I already have a set of mods that covers them well. idk we'll see, I just got the game booted earlier this evening in vanilla mode and have some foundation building (sundries like SkyUI, etc) to do before I start on bodies.

[B3juc0]

A modded Skyrim is extremely CPU intensive... even on my 7800X3D CPU I hit 100% cpu utilization sometimes when a lot of mods are trying to do something (That's 8 cores/16 threads peg to max and then you get stutters). Vanilla Skyrim might run on a potato PC but once you add tons of mods it becomes a whole different game. Some of these mods use the latest instruction sets (AVX512, C++, VS22, Python ect...) It's not a single threaded game anymore. 

[anjenthedog]

12 hours ago, B3juc0 said:

A modded Skyrim is extremely CPU intensive... even on my 7800X3D CPU I hit 100% cpu utilization sometimes when a lot of mods are trying to do something (That's 8 cores/16 threads peg to max and then you get stutters). Vanilla Skyrim might run on a potato PC but once you add tons of mods it becomes a whole different game. Some of these mods use the latest instruction sets (AVX512, C++, VS22, Python ect...) It's not a single threaded game anymore. 

 

I've been playing since 2019 on my 4.3GHz 9700K proc with 64G of RAM.  I'm not a newb, just reinstalling Skyrim after a catastrophic Steam crash and some subsequently vague, obtuse, misleading support from both Steam and Vortex support personnel that left the game broken. 

 

My sole issue on hardware is the video, (1060C 6G) but I get around its limitations relatively fine. I run in ultra mode and I use every bell and whistle I can within the abilities of my wimpy card to improve the visuals, including community shaders (and its addons), real clouds,  real storms, and several others (or did before the crash and will again once they're all installed to the new game)

 

My issue with Skyrim bodies (the ostensible topic of this conversation) is, as I explained ad nauseum in my opening post, due to idling on the first iterations of both CBBE-3BBB and BHUNP and not being fully aware of how the body types been altered in the latest versions

 

Thanks for the unrequested "schooling", but I graduated university as a budding physicist/engineer 40 37 years ago

 

Edited February 7, 2025 by anjenthedog
ommission

[B3juc0]

No schooling or anything, just stating a fact for whoever reads it.  

 

BTW- I'm a NASA Astrometrist at John C Stennis Space Center. 

[anjenthedog]

With all due respect, you're telling me things that have nothing to do with the thread, and it sounds pretty darned preachy to me, as if I'm a clueless newb. Got over those kinds of posts 6 years ago when I'd ask a simple question and get "Modding is hard and not for mere plebs" replies from condescending "pros"

 

PS> congrats. Great place to work. I worked at another NASA facility as an EE for a decade

Edited February 12, 2025 by anjenthedog

[Splintered_Lizard]

Pardon, I have a question about CBPC. I suppose I'm unsure how it works because I never see vagina physics working. I use the BHUNP body. Breast, belly etc. all work fine. I recently switched from the basic SOS schlong to the TRX one. Still no change in collision physics, even when I tried to do SMP instead.  If I'm missing something obvious, please inform me.

Also, I noticed that above the OP stated they had a hotkey to switch between the two physics type. I'm sorry but how and where would that hotkey be set? Thanks for the help.

[Back2friday]

On 2/7/2025 at 5:54 PM, anjenthedog said:

I'm not a newb, just reinstalling Skyrim after a catastrophic Steam crash and some subsequently vague, obtuse, misleading support from both Steam and Vortex support personnel that left the game broken. 

 

My friend, get rid of vortex. That mod manager will be nothing more than a pain in the ass in the future for your mod build. TRUST ME i been on vortex. 

Im also starting skyrim from scratch years later on my new computer and i decided to go with mo2. Thankfully i did. No more setting up rules and all that crap that comes with vortex. Mo2, just simple installation and drag n drop to sort. The best thing about mo2, it stores everything virtual. Meaning your skyrim directory will be CLEAN. Yes CLEAN. 

The overview of your mods, separators, conflicts, plugins you get is just superior. 

Second best thing, you can just copy your entire build for backup. Meaning if you copy it on a new computer, you have everything sorted. With vortex you have to set up rules again. Yeah well good luck remembering that if you havent played for a while. 

I also find vortex ui to be terrible UGLY. Ever since i first installed it tbh. mo2 has it simple everything you need on 1 screen. 

 

and to answer your op, yes you can still switch from smp to cbpc  

Also to look out for,

3bav2 has some new sliders added to the body. This problem i had early today. I used the new 3bav2 sliders on the pc body while also wearing 3bav1 outfits. This leads to diffrent body switching or however you call it. To avoid this is to NOT use the new 3bav2 sliders on your pc body and your body remains the same when switching armor/clothing. 

 

GN 

[Just Don't]

7 hours ago, Splintered_Lizard said:

Pardon, I have a question about CBPC. I suppose I'm unsure how it works because I never see vagina physics working. I use the BHUNP body. Breast, belly etc. all work fine. I recently switched from the basic SOS schlong to the TRX one. Still no change in collision physics, even when I tried to do SMP instead.  If I'm missing something obvious, please inform me.

BHUNP should have options in its installer to manage SOS collisions. If it doesn't you might need an additional mod providing said files or it just lacks support for that (but I doubt that's the case, CBBE 3BA has it so BHUNP likely supports it already).

 

7 hours ago, Splintered_Lizard said:

Also, I noticed that above the OP stated they had a hotkey to switch between the two physics type. I'm sorry but how and where would that hotkey be set? Thanks for the help.

That's a 3BA thing, so in its MCM. But since you're using BHUNP you'll have to check its own MCM if there is one, or check the mod description to see if such a feature exists.

[belegost]

11 hours ago, Back2friday said:

My friend, get rid of vortex. That mod manager will be nothing more than a pain in the ass in the future for your mod build. TRUST ME i been on vortex. 

Im also starting skyrim from scratch years later on my new computer and i decided to go with mo2. Thankfully i did. No more setting up rules and all that crap that comes with vortex. Mo2, just simple installation and drag n drop to sort. The best thing about mo2, it stores everything virtual. Meaning your skyrim directory will be CLEAN. Yes CLEAN. 

The overview of your mods, separators, conflicts, plugins you get is just superior. 

Second best thing, you can just copy your entire build for backup. Meaning if you copy it on a new computer, you have everything sorted. With vortex you have to set up rules again. Yeah well good luck remembering that if you havent played for a while. 

I also find vortex ui to be terrible UGLY. Ever since i first installed it tbh. mo2 has it simple everything you need on 1 screen. 

This is the most braindead take on the whole MO2 vs. Vortex debate I have ever seen. And I've seen a lot of them. All it tells me you have never really tried to get into nitty-gritty, actually attempted to set it up properly and have no idea how it functions. There is no difference in functionality between MO2 and Vortex, there are differences in nomenclature but the core works exactly the same way.

 

The only legitimate criticism you made is that you don't like the interface, which is fair, everyone has their own preferences, but it's still just a matter of taste not functionality. So even that is not a valid point. Everything else you said is misinformation and ignorance.

Edited March 23, 2025 by belegost

[anjenthedog]

11 hours ago, Just Don't said:

That's a 3BA thing, so in its MCM. But since you're using BHUNP you'll have to check its own MCM if there is one, or check the mod description to see if such a feature exists.

BHUNP *used to* have a similar entry. When I had BHUNP and CBBE-3BBB installed in Skyrim SE 1.5.97, each had their own "3BA" MCM (identical in makeup and content, just one for 3BBB and another for BHUNP)

[anjenthedog]

13 hours ago, Back2friday said:

 

My friend, get rid of vortex. That mod manager will be nothing more than a pain in the ass in the future for your mod build. TRUST ME i been on vortex. 

Im also starting skyrim from scratch years later on my new computer and i decided to go with mo2. Thankfully i did. No more setting up rules and all that crap that comes with vortex. Mo2, just simple installation and drag n drop to sort. The best thing about mo2, it stores everything virtual. Meaning your skyrim directory will be CLEAN. Yes CLEAN. 

The overview of your mods, separators, conflicts, plugins you get is just superior. 

Second best thing, you can just copy your entire build for backup. Meaning if you copy it on a new computer, you have everything sorted. With vortex you have to set up rules again. Yeah well good luck remembering that if you havent played for a while. 

I also find vortex ui to be terrible UGLY. Ever since i first installed it tbh. mo2 has it simple everything you need on 1 screen. 

 

and to answer your op, yes you can still switch from smp to cbpc  

Also to look out for,

3bav2 has some new sliders added to the body. This problem i had early today. I used the new 3bav2 sliders on the pc body while also wearing 3bav1 outfits. This leads to diffrent body switching or however you call it. To avoid this is to NOT use the new 3bav2 sliders on your pc body and your body remains the same when switching armor/clothing. 

 

GN 

Frankly I have zero trust in anyone who claims MO2 is "superior" to Vortex, same as I would for someone who claims the opposite. 

 

As for my issue, it has NOTHING to do with the manager used. Instead it has to do with how the newer versions of 3BBB (ie the new v2 3BA) and BHUNP (V3? V4?) work. It used to have either full 3BA response or full CBPC response. Now it's some sort of mishmash of some of one and some of the other,  or one OR the other, with no option for full switch from full 3BA to full CBPC coverage using the included MCM 3BA hotkey.

Edited March 23, 2025 by anjenthedog

[Back2friday]

@belegost

You are right. Im being ignorant. No hard feelings. Everything is easy when you know how it works. 

Idk ever since i started with mo2 it just looks and works better for noob people like me. 

[belegost]

20 minutes ago, Back2friday said:

@belegost

You are right. Im being ignorant. No hard feelings. Everything is easy when you know how it works. 

Idk ever since i started with mo2 it just looks and works better for noob people like me. 

I appreciate your cultured reply.

[anjenthedog]

On 3/23/2025 at 1:44 PM, Back2friday said:

@belegost

You are right. Im being ignorant. No hard feelings. Everything is easy when you know how it works. 

Idk ever since i started with mo2 it just looks and works better for noob people like me. 

The MO2 format works better for some than for others. I chose Vortex not for its annoying "kiosk" styling (I hate kiosk screen styling, ie playstation style menus and so forth)) but instead I chose it for its ease of use, as well as for its binding to Nexus (at the time I didn't realize MO2 had the same bindings, which made the decision easier for me)

 

Note: not that vortex doesn't DOES have *some issues (I routinely have a good bitch about certain vortex things like the lack of a user spec'd category field, that when set as a background operation, there's no follow-up report from FNIS, That one cannot view the load chains graphically unless they have accidentally caused a reentrant chain loop in the load order...after the fact) and the horribly confusing content in some of the deployment messages which *may pop up during deployment >> ie "save changes" and "revert changes" which the vortex team continues to deny there is any issue with, even though choosing "save changes" will result in a mod being depopulated by Vortex, therefore requiring a second deployment to fix the issue caused by "save changes", which imo is an utterly dumbfuck(tm) way to run the manager, and wtf does "revert" really do?)

 

 

Edited March 24, 2025 by anjenthedog