So is this it for Starfield?

[Djlegends]

3 hours ago, RohZima said:

 

I think that might be about to change with StarSim.

 

Edit: Well that depends on what you mean 'force' to buy. But I expect StarSim to be seen as defacto mandatory.

ehh that won't be there for a minute since theres some background issues happening there some of the team members left the group as well

[trurebel1]

For me what killed starfield was the lifeless NPCs. They should have waited a bit for AI and tech to catch up to allow a world where every NPC had names jobs etc like skyrim. 

[brown66]

23 hours ago, trurebel1 said:

For me what killed starfield was the lifeless NPCs. They should have waited a bit for AI and tech to catch up to allow a world where every NPC had names jobs etc like skyrim. 

 

It had nothing to do with AI. And the only technology that remains to be developed so that all NPCs can be unique is the hardware that supports first the game consoles (in this case it became just a game console...) and secondly the computers, especially the processors and memories.

 

As you already know, in Skyrim, with the exception of most bandits, guards, trolls, spiders, skeletons and other general enemies, all other NPCs are unique. That's a really cool thing to do, but the other side of the coin was that you had about 20 to 30 unique NPCs per village and sometimes not even that. When Witcher 3 was released around spring 2015, the city of Novigrad looked like what a real city should be like, full of buildings and people, and although the vast majority (more than 99%) !) being the generalist NPCs automatically generated by the computer, the city really felt like a city. Meanwhile, Whiterun, or even Solitude, seemed like a small forgotten hamlet in the countryside. This was one of the criticisms made of Bethesda's RPGs, especially Skyrim.

 

Hence the reason why Bethesda used the same technique in Starfield that CD Red Projekt used in Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077. And what do people do? Criticize this option! Just as the defenders of Witcher 3 and Cyperpunk said, in real life most of the people we see on a daily basis behave like generalist and stupid NPCs, where they only tell us "Good Morning" or "Sorry", so there was no justification for Bethesda not to do the same in its RPGs, as CD Red Projekt and other game publishers have done.

 

However, I also dream of the day when processors will have enough power and computers (not to mention damn game consoles) will also have enough memory capacity (and probably also a 128-bit operating system) to support, in real time, the necessary scripts, meshes and textures so that a game can have hundreds or even thousands of unique and distinct NPCs on a city, each with their own voice, body and face, without the repetitions that we see in Starfield and so many other games. And if you've actually played Starfield, you've already realized that its Achilles' heel is the scrip engine (and it's now optimized!), which is already stretched almost to the limit and will still have to make room for at least one more DLC - Starborn.

 

However, it seems to me that the creation of unique NPCs in Skyrim was actually better and superior to what happened in Starfield... Perhaps for this contributed the fact that unique NPCs in Skyrim have fewer dialogue options and much shorter dialogues, than what we saw in Starfield, and in this last game, and as much as it pains me to say this, there are excessively long, repetitive dialogues that add little or nothing to the NPCs' story. Sometimes, it seems like someone at Bethesda had a number of dialogues to do and each dialogue had to have a certain number of words and this person simply worried about reaching those numbers, rather than creating a good story for each NPC, even if that meant fewer dialogue options or shorter dialogues.

 

Final Note: The current so-called AI has existed for a few years now and basically consists of five algorithms. What has changed in AI is the amount of information that now exists for these algorithms to work with, due to much of our data circulating without control or with very little control on the internet and especially the fact that graphics cards of the last generations, especially since the COVID (read Nvidia's RTX 3000 generation and AMD's RX6000 generation), are extremely powerful, allowing algorithms to reach results in much less time than was the case before.

 

And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to play Starfield. I've already wasted too much time writing what no one will read.

 

Have fun!

[Djlegends]

22 hours ago, brown66 said:

 

It had nothing to do with AI. And the only technology that remains to be developed so that all NPCs can be unique is the hardware that supports first the game consoles (in this case it became just a game console...) and secondly the computers, especially the processors and memories.

 

As you already know, in Skyrim, with the exception of most bandits, guards, trolls, spiders, skeletons and other general enemies, all other NPCs are unique. That's a really cool thing to do, but the other side of the coin was that you had about 20 to 30 unique NPCs per village and sometimes not even that. When Witcher 3 was released around spring 2015, the city of Novigrad looked like what a real city should be like, full of buildings and people, and although the vast majority (more than 99%) !) being the generalist NPCs automatically generated by the computer, the city really felt like a city. Meanwhile, Whiterun, or even Solitude, seemed like a small forgotten hamlet in the countryside. This was one of the criticisms made of Bethesda's RPGs, especially Skyrim.

 

Hence the reason why Bethesda used the same technique in Starfield that CD Red Projekt used in Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077. And what do people do? Criticize this option! Just as the defenders of Witcher 3 and Cyperpunk said, in real life most of the people we see on a daily basis behave like generalist and stupid NPCs, where they only tell us "Good Morning" or "Sorry", so there was no justification for Bethesda not to do the same in its RPGs, as CD Red Projekt and other game publishers have done.

 

However, I also dream of the day when processors will have enough power and computers (not to mention damn game consoles) will also have enough memory capacity (and probably also a 128-bit operating system) to support, in real time, the necessary scripts, meshes and textures so that a game can have hundreds or even thousands of unique and distinct NPCs on a city, each with their own voice, body and face, without the repetitions that we see in Starfield and so many other games. And if you've actually played Starfield, you've already realized that its Achilles' heel is the scrip engine (and it's now optimized!), which is already stretched almost to the limit and will still have to make room for at least one more DLC - Starborn.

 

However, it seems to me that the creation of unique NPCs in Skyrim was actually better and superior to what happened in Starfield... Perhaps for this contributed the fact that unique NPCs in Skyrim have fewer dialogue options and much shorter dialogues, than what we saw in Starfield, and in this last game, and as much as it pains me to say this, there are excessively long, repetitive dialogues that add little or nothing to the NPCs' story. Sometimes, it seems like someone at Bethesda had a number of dialogues to do and each dialogue had to have a certain number of words and this person simply worried about reaching those numbers, rather than creating a good story for each NPC, even if that meant fewer dialogue options or shorter dialogues.

 

Final Note: The current so-called AI has existed for a few years now and basically consists of five algorithms. What has changed in AI is the amount of information that now exists for these algorithms to work with, due to much of our data circulating without control or with very little control on the internet and especially the fact that graphics cards of the last generations, especially since the COVID (read Nvidia's RTX 3000 generation and AMD's RX6000 generation), are extremely powerful, allowing algorithms to reach results in much less time than was the case before.

 

And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to play Starfield. I've already wasted too much time writing what no one will read.

 

Have fun!

i've read it...

[Reigor]

On 1/3/2025 at 4:03 PM, brown66 said:

Hence the reason why Bethesda used the same technique in Starfield that CD Red Projekt used in Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077. And what do people do? Criticize this option! Just as the defenders of Witcher 3 and Cyperpunk said, in real life most of the people we see on a daily basis behave like generalist and stupid NPCs, where they only tell us "Good Morning" or "Sorry", so there was no justification for Bethesda not to do the same in its RPGs, as CD Red Projekt and other game publishers have done.

 

Nothing (besides money) stopped BGS from combining the best of both worlds. Have the NPCs that the player will often interact with, shopkeepers, quest givers/targets, and the like, have schedules and include crowd NPCs for the added immersion. There are a few NPCs with schedules, the miners and office workers in Cydonia for example. The only issue I see, besides dev time, is additional costs for Voice Actors, which may have been a deciding factor, since BGS decided not to use AI voices. 

 

As much as I can understand the VA community not liking AI because the tech threatens their livelihoods, this is one of those cases where some AI use would have been beneficial if VA for numerous minor bits was deemed too expensive.

 

Another, slightly related criticism is BGS refusal to use backdrops to give the illusion of their cities being much bigger. Yes, the player can't explore all of it, but as long as its big enough it won't matter. Consequently, I felt the interiors of most of the space stations, like Deimos, far too small from what their outside suggests. The idea being to trick the player's mind. 

[Djlegends]

4 hours ago, Reigor said:

 

Nothing (besides money) stopped BGS from combining the best of both worlds. Have the NPCs that the player will often interact with, shopkeepers, quest givers/targets, and the like, have schedules and include crowd NPCs for the added immersion. There are a few NPCs with schedules, the miners and office workers in Cydonia for example. The only issue I see, besides dev time, is additional costs for Voice Actors, which may have been a deciding factor, since BGS decided not to use AI voices. 

 

As much as I can understand the VA community not liking AI because the tech threatens their livelihoods, this is one of those cases where some AI use would have been beneficial if VA for numerous minor bits was deemed too expensive.

 

Another, slightly related criticism is BGS refusal to use backdrops to give the illusion of their cities being much bigger. Yes, the player can't explore all of it, but as long as its big enough it won't matter. Consequently, I felt the interiors of most of the space stations, like Deimos, far too small from what their outside suggests. The idea being to trick the player's mind. 

also the Den have schedules ironically

[Djlegends]

also quick Update: For those that hate the VC program apparently Bethesda made a loophole in which you can paywall your mod along with have a free identical version on Nexus as well

[RohZima]

On 1/8/2025 at 4:11 AM, Djlegends said:

also quick Update: For those that hate the VC program apparently Bethesda made a loophole in which you can paywall your mod along with have a free identical version on Nexus as well

 

Todd the emperor - just making up contradictory laws on a whim! 😅

[RohZima]

I'm actually being cynical not about Bethesda but certain people a few years back who used to condemn patreon modders like myself. They couldn't understand what I did back then that Bethesda do not write international copywrite laws that the world then has to follow... This just proves that they simply make it up as they go.

 

I'm also seeing a calamitous future for creations with angry users finding they:

 

1. paid for a free mod

2. paid for mod that broke in an update and the modder is MIA

3. paid for a mod that broke other mods

4. paid for mod that then someone else made a free version

5. paid for a mod that corrupted a save