Binding

[Talesien]

1 hour ago, Lazy Palm said:

If it was between 0.1.10 and 0.2.01, I did some pretty significant changes to that part and that is another storage area getting restructured situation. Switched all the hard limit blocks to the small rules set to that disable what you want dropdown under the mcm (and under settings under the action menu), knowing those in-dev rules would make the pool get a lot larger.  And I didn't want to have to restructure the MCM every time something is added.  Also, I figured people that are using this mostly as a tie up framework to support other mods might not want all of the D/s rules.

 

If it was cleared between the first and second previews, I probably need to look at something 🤣

Well ... not certain, if I read what you wrote correct, that drop down didn't exist in 01.01? I'm pretty certain I did set it before (because I remember being so-so about this being a drop down, makes sense to keep the MCM from absolutely overflowing with checkboxes, but OTOH the lack of multi-select drop-downs in SkyUI makes it a bit of a chore. I guess in the end it's justifiable, given most people will not change rules that often ... I think?) I can't say 100% I didn't set that in another save, but I doubt it. I will check profiles and see if any other profile is already on 02.01.

And ah yes ... hindsight, that could be one of my superpowers as well. 😛 

 

[Lazy Palm]

Yeah, MCM dropdowns are a bit limited, so I was trying to move some of that stuff out and into the setting menus (long press on action, settings, enabled rules).  You should just be able to click stuff on and off here (without re-dropping down).  Of course I have broken a lot of the MCM backup stuff with these changes also, which needs to be addressed too...

 

Enabled Rules - what dom can set when in dom controlled mod

Active Rules - what is currently in effect

 

I need to rename these to something more easily understood...

Edited December 9, 2024 by Lazy Palm

[Talesien]

Before you go on a ghost chase, while I could replicate the whipping bug, it went away after disabling Pamatronics Beatup using ZAP once and re-enabling Pama (perhaps simple unticking and ticking the checkbox would also done the trick, didn't test that). So I guess that might really be something that somehow got introduced by updating.
Seems ZAP Whipping ends on its own though, I assume that's intended?

[Lazy Palm]

19 minutes ago, Talesien said:

Before you go on a ghost chase, while I could replicate the whipping bug, it went away after disabling Pamatronics Beatup using ZAP once and re-enabling Pama (perhaps simple unticking and ticking the checkbox would also done the trick, didn't test that). So I guess that might really be something that somehow got introduced by updating.
Seems ZAP Whipping ends on its own though, I assume that's intended?

 

Yeah, ZAP ends on its own.  Pama has the the action key.  And the internal whipping system (for non zap / DD only users - which means no pama either, I think it needs zap items, but might be bundled and I should check) uses the action key.  The internal system (that I forgot building) that is still using a wood sword vs a whip because I have not found an asset yet, and still needs slave tats marks, etc, etc. etc....

 

Edit: wait, didn't you mention zap 7 assets are free to use and have a very open license?  or I am just misremembering that?

Edited December 9, 2024 by Lazy Palm

[Anunya]

One request: in the MCM (last I checked) there are quite a lot of options to set animations/ poses for specific events. It would be great if a default was shown, as (as a new user) it's pretty hard to make informed decisions about which one to select.

[Talesien]

21 minutes ago, Lazy Palm said:

 

Yeah, ZAP ends on its own.  Pama has the the action key.  And the internal whipping system (for non zap / DD only users - which means no pama either, I think it needs zap items, but might be bundled and I should check) uses the action key.  The internal system (that I forgot building) that is still using a wood sword vs a whip because I have not found an asset yet, and still needs slave tats marks, etc, etc. etc....

 

Edit: wait, didn't you mention zap 7 assets are free to use and have a very open license?  or I am just misremembering that?

Can't remember stating that, but yes it does. Not sure on the permissions for the SE port, but then it shouldn't be much of a problem to put the original mesh through Cathedral Asset Cleaner to convert it. (Or I could do it if you like.)
Pama's has a hard dependency on ZAP, so ...

[Lazy Palm]

23 minutes ago, Anunya said:

One request: in the MCM (last I checked) there are quite a lot of options to set animations/ poses for specific events. It would be great if a default was shown, as (as a new user) it's pretty hard to make informed decisions about which one to select.

 

Should be working in the 0.2.01 preview 1.5.  I think so at least 🙂

[Anunya]

38 minutes ago, Lazy Palm said:

 

Should be working in the 0.2.01 preview 1.5.  I think so at least 🙂

 

I was on 1.1.0

 

Will updating from 1.1.0 to the current version require a new game?

[Lazy Palm]

59 minutes ago, Talesien said:

Can't remember stating that, but yes it does. Not sure on the permissions for the SE port, but then it shouldn't be much of a problem to put the original mesh through Cathedral Asset Cleaner to convert it. (Or I could do it if you like.)
Pama's has a hard dependency on ZAP, so ...

That would be amazing, it would be one less thing I have to teach myself this week 🤣

 

I feel like ZAP is about one skyrim update away from never running properly again (the parts that are not already broken), feels like there are more cracks as the years move along...

Edited December 9, 2024 by Lazy Palm

[Lazy Palm]

Just now, Anunya said:

Will updating from 1.1.0 to the current version require a new game?

 

In theory, no.... *crosses fingers on both hands*
 

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Lazy Palm said:

Edit: wait, didn't you mention zap 7 assets are free to use and have a very open license?  or I am just misremembering that?

 

44 minutes ago, Talesien said:

Can't remember stating that, but yes it does.

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but ZAP 8 permissions do say that "All previous permissions regardless of conditions are hereby rescinded...."  To me, it seems very reasonable that this would apply to older versions like ZAP 7.  t.ara is the author of both versions.  It would be weird to have wildly different permissions for those versions, especially if some of the assets are identical (a ZAP 8 mesh is not a modder's resource, but the identical mesh packaged in ZAP 7 is free to use???)

 

If there's any doubt, why not just ping t.ara with a quick message and ask if ZAP 7 assets are free to use as mod resources?  That way, you'll be sure that you're in the clear.  t.ara is still around (though less often than some members) and in my own experience has responded to my questions.  It only takes a minute to fire off a message and be sure that there's no problem.

[Talesien]

23 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

 

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but ZAP 8 permissions do say that "All previous permissions regardless of conditions are hereby rescinded...."  To me, it seems very reasonable that this would apply to older versions like ZAP 7.  t.ara is the author of both versions.  It would be weird to have wildly different permissions for those versions, especially if some of the assets are identical (a ZAP 8 mesh is not a modder's resource, but the identical mesh packaged in ZAP 7 is free to use???)

 

If there's any doubt, why not just ping t.ara with a quick message and ask if ZAP 7 assets are free to use as mod resources?  That way, you'll be sure that you're in the clear.  t.ara is still around (though less often than some members) and in my own experience has responded to my questions.  It only takes a minute to fire off a message and be sure that there's no problem.

I agree that shooting t.ara a DM is probably the best way. That stated, you can not simply revoke or change rights of one mod on another mods page. Even if that mod is the successor. You need to change the permissions where they are written. That said permissions like these are extremely ... malleable. If you want to be on the save side, use a proper license like MIT, GPLv2 or v3, Apache, whatever (personally I would likely use GPLv3 for a mod, unless I intend to monetize it perhaps, I'm not a jurist though).

[Lazy Palm]

42 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but ZAP 8 permissions do say that "All previous permissions regardless of conditions are hereby rescinded...."  To me, it seems very reasonable that this would apply to older versions like ZAP 7.  t.ara is the author of both versions.

 

Thanks for the additional info Hexbolt!

[Hex Bolt]

12 minutes ago, Talesien said:

I agree that shooting t.ara a DM is probably the best way. That stated, you can not simply revoke or change rights of one mod on another mods page. Even if that mod is the successor. You need to change the permissions where they are written.

We are a modding community, and a niche one at that, so I would set aside legalistic wrangling in favor of honoring the wishes and intent of a mod author and the spirit of any expressed desires.  If the matter concerned two unrelated mods by the same author, I'd certainly agree that permissions on one would not apply to the other.  But with ZAP 7 & 8, where 8 is just a newer version, having different mod pages is not nearly as significant as the author's wording that all previous permissions are rescinded.

 

In a community for modders, rather than a business environment governed by legal contracts, intent matters.  Which is more likely?  Does t.ara actually intend to offer ZAP 7 as a free modder's resource but retain tight control over ZAP 8, 9, and beyond, or is does t.ara intend for the "rescinded" statement to apply to any versions?  Which is more likely?  If we accept that it's more likely that this is the author's intent, then a legalistic argument that t.ara didn't specifically update an older page acknowledges that it's going against the author's wishes.

 

My reason for speaking up was just to state a different viewpoint, and reasonable people can disagree.  Messaging t.ara will answer the question and remove all doubt, so I don't have much more to say about this.

[dertcz]

But t.ara have mess in permission. In one place saying "THIS IS A MODDER´S RESOURCE" and second place in same page saying "The content in this upload is not open source or resource material.". Better ask him directly.

[Lazy Palm]

0.2.01 development preview 2 - this is a smaller update

 

* Added fake sleep to no beds rule (hogtied)

* Reworked dominant follower pre-enslavement event (dom moves you vs. fights everything)

* Added some additional logging to help identify issues with 0.2.01 bondage equips (line example: AddBondageItem() loaded item: [Armor < (0B001E3B)>])

 

 

Binding 0.2.01 preview 2.7z

[Lenore]

40 minutes ago, Lazy Palm said:

Added fake sleep to no beds rule (hogtied)

 

I thought it was already added?

[Lazy Palm]

5 minutes ago, Lenore said:

 

I thought it was already added?

 

It was in no beds using furniture, but no beds hogtied was using the hidden bedroll which does seem to work with Go To Bed.

 

edit; was also in camping with furniture.

Edited December 10, 2024 by Lazy Palm

[Talesien]

Just a short notice. Had the dom release me. Updated. Cleaned save. Checked MCM, most of it seems intact, except the rules set in the dropdown: "Rules enabled (for Dom controlled)" were reset again it appears. Just throwing that out here in case. Will check later today if italways resets if you get released or if it was just the updare.

Edited December 10, 2024 by Talesien

[Anunya]

Alright so I've finally gotten a game going and got to the Binding part... here are my first notes.

 

So I tried combing SubLola and Binding and it didn't work out that great - whether it's the combination or whether something else is going on I don't know. But I activated SubLola, then activated Binding. My PC was in the Bannered Mare and immediately got in trouble for breaking the rules  - reading a Word Wall without the appropriate rituals, which doesn't make sense.

 

Trying to get the hang of  it, my PC broke several rules that I'd set up the MCM. Side note: it'd be much better IMO to be told "you didn't kneel on the floor when you ate" (or whatever it is) when you break a rule, rather than just being told you broke the rule and then having to go through a longer conversation to find out what you did wrong.

 

My PC got punished a few times, but as far as I could see it either meant being put in a kneeling pose or just locked in place (and by that I mean, idling in one spot but being unable to move). It was more confusing than punishing. I think there were some messages like "kneel in place until you're told you can get up" and "you may get up now" messages, but the timing seemed off. It never felt

 

A couple of times I got told "your master loosens your gag so you can speak" but my PC was never wearing a gag.

 

There was a couple of direct conflicts with SubLola on the same master (which makes sense, and I think the solution is in tweaking the MCM settings). My PC is supposed to kneel to speak to the Binding Master, and also has kneeling for speaking to her SubLola master - which seems to be a problem if it's the same person. SubLola also popped my PC to her feet when speaking to her Master, which resulted in a Binding violation because she was speaking to him and not kneeling.

 

At one point the Master said he was going to put my PC in tight bondage, and went to put it on. I got a pop up that said "Valid set [ ]" and later "the Master cancelled a punishment" (or was it bondage?). Is this something that needs to be set up in the MCM somewhere?

 

I also got notices that I gained and lost points, but it was not clear to me quite why I got (or lost them) or why it mattered.

 

Finally - and I don't know if this is a Binding thing or just another general sexlab setting thing. The Master decided to have anal sex with my PC. That is fair enough (I assume the result of having the "free use" option on in the MCM) except she was wearing Laura's chastity belt, so it looked a bit off. I don't know if this is something Binding should handle (if Binding triggered the sex scene), whether it's a general sexlab thing, or whether it's best to just not combine those two.

 

Finally finally - got the tied up sleeping thing working but it took me a couple of minutes to figure out I had to press the action key to start sleeping. Some text to tell the player that would've been good

 

Anyhow, I'm enjoying playing around with it. I think I'll go back a bit and either try out separate Lola and Binding masters, or just limit the Binding rules a lot so there's less conflict (though that will limit the scope of the testing somewhat).

Edited December 11, 2024 by Anunya

[Talesien]

3 hours ago, Anunya said:

So I tried combing SubLola and Binding and it didn't work out that great - whether it's the combination or whether something else is going on I don't know. But I activated SubLola, then activated Binding. My PC was in the Bannered Mare and immediately got in trouble for breaking the rules  - reading a Word Wall without the appropriate rituals, which doesn't make sense.

Known bug, guess Lazy Palm didn't get around fixing it yet (or you using an older version?) But yes it is a pretty annoying one, if you set a rule for having to do something for talking with NPC's, wait till they forcegreet you. 😛

 

3 hours ago, Anunya said:

My PC got punished a few times, but as far as I could see it either meant being put in a kneeling pose or just locked in place (and by that I mean, idling in one spot but being unable to move). It was more confusing than punishing. I think there were some messages like "kneel in place until you're told you can get up" and "you may get up now" messages, but the timing seemed off. It never felt

You should have the option to get whipped instead or suffer a monetary punishment (i.e. more or less pay a fine).
The time in a device (or harsh bondage), does seem a bit off. I think the MCM settings are in game minutes, but I'm getting the feeling the time starts with the dialogue, before you are actually in the device, didn't get around to verify that though.

 

3 hours ago, Anunya said:

I also got notices that I gained and lost points, but it was not clear to me quite why I got (or lost them) or why it mattered.

You can select in the MCM what you get points for, they are useful mainly (only?) with hybrid rules application. Where you need to spend points to change/remove a rule.
You are right, though, more documentation would be good for new users. Although some might enjoy experimenting and find out via trial and error, I suppose the majority would like at least some hints. ^^

 

3 hours ago, Anunya said:

 

Finally - and I don't know if this is a Binding thing or just another general sexlab setting thing. The Master decided to have anal sex with my PC. That is fair enough (I assume the result of having the "free use" option on in the MCM) except she was wearing Laura's chastity belt, so it looked a bit off. I don't know if this is something Binding should handle (if Binding triggered the sex scene), whether it's a general sexlab thing, or whether it's best to just not combine those two.

Technically the DD/ZAP/SLU++/P+ whatever filter should take care of it. So far the DD NG filters (using NG 0.3.9b2) seem to do the best job.

 

Edited December 11, 2024 by Talesien

[Talesien]

Question, setting a follower as potential dom starts a quest. That seems to happen every time. You also mentioned that followers you had a dom before are automatically set as a potential dom. So if the situations arise, and you've several Followers that 'qualify', how is the one chosen that goes through the motions? Random? The first one added to the group/or the list of potential doms? The last one? You didn't consider that possibility and have no idea either?

[Anunya]

5 hours ago, Talesien said:

Known bug, guess Lazy Palm didn't get around fixing it yet (or you using an older version?) But yes it is a pretty annoying one, if you set a rule for having to do something for talking with NPC's, wait till they forcegreet you. 😛

 

You should have the option to get whipped instead or suffer a monetary punishment (i.e. more or less pay a fine).
The time in a device (or harsh bondage), does seem a bit off. I think the MCM settings are in game minutes, but I'm getting the feeling the time starts with the dialogue, before you are actually in the device, didn't get around to verify that though.

 

You can select in the MCM what you get points for, they are useful mainly (only?) with hybrid rules application. Where you need to spend points to change/remove a rule.
You are right, though, more documentation would be good for new users. Although some might enjoy experimenting and find out via trial and error, I suppose the majority would like at least some hints. ^^

 

Technically the DD/ZAP/SLU++/P+ whatever filter should take care of it. So far the DD NG filters (using NG 0.3.9b2) seem to do the best job.

 

 

Thanks for all that Talesien

 

I'll keep poking at it. I do have DD NG, SLU+ (there's a ++?) and the second most recent version of Binding so I should be good. Though... NPCs haven't been undressing for some of the sex scenes either, so maybe something isn't properly installed somewhere (and here I thought I had my mods squared away =/ )

[Anunya]

... and there's a monetary component to being punished? I had no idea 😮 

[Kargano01]

13 hours ago, Lazy Palm said:

0.2.01 development preview 2 - this is a smaller update

 

* Added fake sleep to no beds rule (hogtied)

* Reworked dominant follower pre-enslavement event (dom moves you vs. fights everything)

* Added some additional logging to help identify issues with 0.2.01 bondage equips (line example: AddBondageItem() loaded item: [Armor < (0B001E3B)>])

 

 

Binding 0.2.01 preview 2.7z 276.28 kB · 12 downloads

Thanks for working so hard on it.

 

If it help, i can send you a log. ( as long as you tell me wich one and where i can find it is 😅)

 

Many thanks