Licenses - Player Oppression

[Nuascura]

@cerebus300 @Lucky Sparrow @Plaguetard2.0 @Sir Walter Ratleigh 

My dear testing hoes: here's what you wanted, though with some exceptions.

 

Thaneship only grants immunity to the "insurance" requirement. But, you may find that this also fulfills your desires depending on what license features you've enabled and how you change your equipment license costs. 

[Nuascura]

On 10/4/2023 at 7:15 PM, Corsec said:

I should clarify that when I say blocking the barter screen, I wasn't thinking of blocking by script. I don't know if that's possible or how to do it. It may require editing the vanilla script.

 

What I meant instead was to edit the dialogue line so that it would result in branching off to a custom dialogue line where they simply refuse to serve the player without a Trading Licence. Hopefully this could be done in a way that is much simpler than the way SLS does it, because SLS force-closes the barter screen.

 

Of course, all this would require editing vanilla dialogue and could conflict with other mods.

 

Or would it be best done by blocking NPCs based on their membership of a merchant faction?

Well, blocking via dialogue branch based on merchant faction was precisely the method which I'd been testing with from the beginning. So yeah, not to worry. I'm going to check viability in practice, now, since I'm done with thaneship immunity.

[Corsec]

17 minutes ago, Gyra said:

Well, blocking via dialogue branch based on merchant faction was precisely the method which I'd been testing with from the beginning. So yeah, not to worry. I'm going to check viability in practice, now, since I'm done with thaneship immunity.

 

OK, cool. Were you planning on a new trading licence or on restricting it by the pre-existing licences?

[Nuascura]

9 minutes ago, Corsec said:

OK, cool. Were you planning on a new trading licence or on restricting it by the pre-existing licences?

New trading license. 
 

Merchant Faction can be split into subtypes Blacksmith and clothing (or whatever it’s actually called). Since the different merchants have crossover goods, which is especially the case with general goods merchants, it doesn’t seem right to restrict barter dialogue based on pre-existing licenses.

 

I’ll also need to filter out specific merchant types since Bethesda also groups Fences and Street Sellers under the same dialogue group, though thankfully with explicit Faction names as mentioned.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Gyra

[cerebus300]

Hey, I love the mod. One thing that I would like to see is a bit of a buffer period between the removal of an item and the time when you get fined for it. I've had it happen a lot already where a mod strips DDs off the character (SLUTS for example) and the mod is just trading it for another item, but I get immediately slammed with a fine. Is it possible to work in a delay to avoid this from happening?  I mean, if she is just being willful and walking around like she thinks that she has the freedoms that men have, well, she needs to be taught a lesson. ?

[Nuascura]

2 minutes ago, cerebus300 said:

Hey, I love the mod. One thing that I would like to see is a bit of a buffer period between the removal of an item and the time when you get fined for it. I've had it happen a lot already where a mod strips DDs off the character (SLUTS for example) and the mod is just trading it for another item, but I get immediately slammed with a fine. Is it possible to work in a delay to avoid this from happening?  I mean, if she is just being willful and walking around like she thinks that she has the freedoms that men have, well, she needs to be taught a lesson. ?

Hm… totally possible, and very easy to be done. In fact, I’d reduced the delay when compared to BML so that enforcers could be more responsive (given that equipment check takes some noticeable time). I can make the delay adjustable in a later update.

[Nuascura]

@Corsec SPID use to place random license documents in NPC inventories will likely be useful with the upcoming update.

 

What I've done is I've made license sellers sell only one license type per cycle. This means is that, if you've bought a license, sellers will refuse to sell you a duplicate should you lose your "copy." In such a case, you'll either have to find another copy or wait until your original expires.

 

For example, say I bought an Armor License. Should I drop this document and talk to a seller, they will now explicitly refuse to sell me a copy. To reactivate my benefits, I can do one of the following:

- Steal another NPC's "Armor License"

- Retrieve the "Armor License" I'd dropped

- Wait until my "Armor License" expires while outside my inventory, after which I can purchase a new one from the seller

 

Besides all that, I've also implemented a Crafting License, mildly as you had suggested early on, but contained solely within BMLE. Players without a Crafting License will only be able to use cooking pot furnitures.

[Lute]

Hmm. Aside from a trading license, how about a general property license?

 

You can't own anything unless you have it. That means anything in your inventory at all. Including gold, if you want to be hardcore, so that license will have to earned in a different way.

[Nuascura]

3 minutes ago, Lute said:

Hmm. Aside from a trading license, how about a general property license?

 

You can't own anything unless you have it. That means anything in your inventory at all. Including gold, if you want to be hardcore, so that license will have to earned in a different way.

How would you propose one earn a "general property license"?

[Lute]

5 minutes ago, Gyra said:

How would you propose one earn a "general property license"?

 

I imagine one can be rather imaginative about the ways one can earn such a license... But the obvious one would be a sufficient amount of sexual favors.

[Kruggar]

I'm using BM Licenses 1.1.0, and haven't tried this enhanced version yet. 

 

I saw that BM licenses original mod isn't a hard dependency anymore, so question is how do I upgrade from that version to this version of mod? Is it ok if I do it mid game?

[Nuascura]

3 hours ago, Kruggar said:

I'm using BM Licenses 1.1.0, and haven't tried this enhanced version yet. 

 

I saw that BM licenses original mod isn't a hard dependency anymore, so question is how do I upgrade from that version to this version of mod? Is it ok if I do it mid game?

It can be safe! You just need to be sure that BML isn’t running through any of its scripts.

 

If you want to be extra safe,

1. Go to an interior cell

2. Disable BML via MCM

3. Wait 10 seconds outside the MCM

4. Save game

5. Overwrite BML with BMLE

6. ???

7. Profit (load game and enjoy)

[Ralof of Riverwood]

Just had a guard come up and slap some devices on me for using a crafting station, even though I have that license disabled and was in my home when I was crafting.

[Nuascura]

35 minutes ago, Ralof of Riverwood said:

Just had a guard come up and slap some devices on me for using a crafting station, even though I have that license disabled and was in my home when I was crafting.

I'll have to remember to disable furniture checking in player homes. However, I can't replicate your issue with crafting station violation when the license option is disabled.

 

Crafting License is enabled by default. Maybe double-check that it is disabled? The logic for this license type is the same as all the other licenses in terms of MCM activation. Either you had it enabled or I didn't remember to compile the script. If you're still having issues, try a new game and lmk what happens.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Gyra

[Ralof of Riverwood]

Just did some testing. On the old save, the crafting license was definitely disabled, and the splash screen listed it as unnecessary. I still got in trouble. Turning it on, then off again didn't change anything.

 

It may be worth mentioning that I was crafting in the museum from Legacy of the Dragonborn, so not a vanilla home.

 

New character, Whiterun forge - I noticed I got a warning when in violation, something I didn't see on the old save. Guards fined me. When disabled, nothing happens.

New character, LotD museum forge - mod warns me about being in violation, but no guards see me and I don't get in trouble. When disabled, nothing happens.

New character, Breezehome alchemy table - mod warns me about being in violation, but no guards see me and I don't get in trouble. When disabled, nothing happens.

 

Conclusion - mod works as advertised on new character, but some wires appear to have gotten crossed when updating the mod with a pre-existing save. Since it was a fairly new character anyway (only level 2) I'll probably just delete the character and start over.

 

Edit - before giving up on the character, I slept in a bed for 12+ hours to start a new day and the guards aren't hassling me anymore.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Ralof of Riverwood
update test info

[Plaguetard2.0]

On 10/7/2023 at 4:35 AM, Gyra said:

@cerebus300 @Lucky Sparrow @Plaguetard2.0 @Sir Walter Ratleigh 

My dear testing hoes: here's what you wanted, though with some exceptions.

 

Thaneship only grants immunity to the "insurance" requirement. But, you may find that this also fulfills your desires depending on what license features you've enabled and how you change your equipment license costs. 

I will give this a test! Appreciate it very much! I am currently in the process of switching from DAR to OAR, and likewise potentially combat animations, so it might be a few days with life and socializing and work, but I will definitely try things out and let you know. Thanks for adding it in.

[Nuascura]

40 minutes ago, Ralof of Riverwood said:

New character, Whiterun forge - I noticed I got a warning when in violation, something I didn't see on the old save. Guards fined me. When disabled, nothing happens.

Something was certainly stuck in your old save beforehand, and the Debug Notification you saw is precisely to help debug these cases. See, that notification is supposed to indicate that a bounty quest has started due to crafting license violation. Supposedly, with the way I’ve coded it, it should be impossible for you to be approached for this specific violation without seeing that notification. But according to you, you were approached without seeing that notification.

 

Still, glad the mod now works on both your old and new save. I’ll double-check for pitfalls on my end.

[MaybeNobody]

Thanks for all the work you've put into the mod!

 

Just an idea, it would be great if we could set up a license renewal fund. Letting us deposit gold with the guards so when our licenses expire, if we have enough money in the fund, the license automatically renews itself.

 

 

[Nuascura]

57 minutes ago, MaybeNobody said:

Thanks for all the work you've put into the mod!

 

Just an idea, it would be great if we could set up a license renewal fund. Letting us deposit gold with the guards so when our licenses expire, if we have enough money in the fund, the license automatically renews itself.

Thanks! And I hope you continue to enjoy this mod!

 

As for your suggestion, I will have to kindly decline it. My reasoning is similar to why I chose to limit Thane Immunity benefits to the Insurance feature rather than have it mod-wide, so to speak: Just like with BananasManiac's vision as the original author, the need for players to constantly return to a license seller is a roleplay taxation type of thing and a necessity according to design intent. Gold is honestly too easy to come by in Skyrim. If, by any method, the player can limit how often they actually interact with this mod's features, that severely compromises the mod's design. And that's beyond basically rendering most of this mod redundant.

[yotvjsv]

Hey, the mod is amazing. Really good job so far. I`m using it instead of sls because its simpler and more transparent.

Wonder if you are going to provide more collar exemption like optional features? For example similiar options for piercing`s/hands restrain/gags etc..

I think it could be justified in some "lore" friendly way e.g. piercing exemption = piercing with soulgems used to locate women, gags exemption = well, we are the dragonborn u know, murdering someone with your voice is not that hard, hands restrain = pickpocket prevention. Just some ideas from myself. Exemptions would be optional anyway so i guess people could customize their playstyle, from simple license system to full bound skyrim experience. 

 

[Nuascura]

3 minutes ago, yotvjsv said:

Hey, the mod is amazing. Really good job so far. I`m using it instead of sls because its simpler and more transparent.

Wonder if you are going to provide more collar exemption like optional features? For example similiar options for piercing`s/hands restrain/gags etc..

I think it could be justified in some "lore" friendly way e.g. piercing exemption = piercing with soulgems used to locate women, gags exemption = well, we are the dragonborn u know, murdering someone with your voice is not that hard, hands restrain = pickpocket prevention. Just some ideas from myself. Exemptions would be optional anyway so i guess people could customize their playstyle, from simple license system to full bound skyrim experience. 

 

Thank you.

 

As for the suggestion, maybe, maybe not. I may or may not get back to you on this. The Trading License was really the last “license type” I was planning to implement. Putting too many features in will make the mod bloat like SLS. And that’s without mentioning the possibility of choice paralysis should I overwhelm the player with too many things to do/change. 

If I remember to do so, I may additionally add an option to forbid player from holding device keys without a Collar Exemption, but this will be part of the mentioned license type, not a separate license.

 

For any experience going full bondage, best to continue using a mod like Devious Cursed Loot or any other similar but newer mod that I’m unfamiliar with which enforces equipping of Devious Devices restraints.

[Corsec]

Gag exemption is a great idea. How about rationalising it as a Free Speech Licence?. Without one, it would be illegal to not wear a gag in public.

 

It's also a great excuse to put gags on NPCs, for consistency and immersion.

 

31 minutes ago, Gyra said:

 And that’s without mentioning the possibility of choice paralysis

 

I can verify, this is a real thing lol.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Corsec

[Nuascura]

Gag Exemption? Maybe. We’ll see, again, after I do Trading License.

 

In either case; to all:

 

An upcoming to-be-decided update (may not be the next one) will reformat MCM to improve readability, which likely involves adding additional tabs. This change may require a cleaned or new game save/character so to reload BMLE’s mod settings page. You’ll be notified of this change via the changelog, which you should always read before downloading an update.

 

Ta-ta.

[yotvjsv]

1 hour ago, Gyra said:

Thank you.

 

As for the suggestion, maybe, maybe not. I may or may not get back to you on this. The Trading License was really the last “license type” I was planning to implement. Putting too many features in will make the mod bloat like SLS. And that’s without mentioning the possibility of choice paralysis should I overwhelm the player with too many things to do/change. 

I have never modded skyrim so i have no clue how problematic my idea is, but alternatively instead of adding many exceptions you could think about one option which would be considered hardcore mode, maybe something like dragonborn license? without it player would be forced to wear full set of devices . Maybe this would solve the choice paralysis u were talking about. Hope it helps ?

 

1 hour ago, Gyra said:

For any experience going full bondage, best to continue using a mod like Devious Cursed Loot or any other similar but newer mod that I’m unfamiliar with which enforces equipping of Devious Devices restraints.

Thats a problem, basically any mod that forces equipping devious devices works like dcl, open container - get deviced. I mean there are some other quests mods, but currently there is no mod providing full bondage experience typically at the city by guards, or by forcing a law. There was a mod city bondage i believe, which equipped devices everytime player entered a city but looks like its gone for good, couldnt find it.

[cerebus300]

7 hours ago, yotvjsv said:

Thats a problem, basically any mod that forces equipping devious devices works like dcl, open container - get deviced. I mean there are some other quests mods, but currently there is no mod providing full bondage experience typically at the city by guards, or by forcing a law. There was a mod city bondage i believe, which equipped devices everytime player entered a city but looks like its gone for good, couldnt find it.

 

Yeah, I use DCL to force items on my character, as well as Devious Mimic, and I've been happy with it overall. I would love to have more cases where the guards applied devices and removed keys as punishment for bad behaviors, rather than sending the character to jail. I have yet to find a fun jail experience that doesn't break or cause all kinds of problems. The DCL prison is a great idea and fun to do ONCE, but after that, it is ridiculously tedious. POP just breaks and is clunky as hell, even though I like the concept behind it and many of the things that it tries to do.