Sex Mod Framework - Development Discussion

[Halstrom]

34 minutes ago, TheCaptn said:

 

I doubt there will be for quite a while friend. I think the best case scenario would be that Ashal, CE0, Halstrom and whoever else actually knows their shit are working together in a smaller, private group, away from all of us yapping at them... Just checking back here occasionally to see what's up.

I'm only a little cog on the side, I watch the pro's, help test and make kinky side mods. Yet again, SF is a learning curve for everyone with new improved Beth Quirks and we don't have animations yet. Not sure whose framework will kick off first or if there will be more than one. A lot depends on the size of this community, it may end up bigger than FO4 but smaller than Skyrim. The initial release hype is now slowing just going by the frequency of posts here in the SF section. I'm just relearning how to use SFEdit, haven't done any FO4 modding for probably 3 or 4 years now
It may pickup again now we have a modding tool.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Halstrom

[DocClox]

I've been watching with interest, but there really isn't a whole lot to talk about until we have the tools. (It doesn't help that everyone and their dog seem to be insisting I sign up to Discord before I can test their software).

 

One If I had one request after reading this thread it would be: resist the temptation to add gameplay elements to the framework. Mods at this level work best when they are as application agnostic as possible. Building in, say, arousal sounds like a good idea, but the scanning in SLA and derivatives has often proven either buggy or expensive, and if a modder doesn't need that functionality they shouldn't have to work around it.

 

Let's make the framework as boring as possible, and do the cool stuff in mods that take advantage of the API. Something I've been meaning to chip in with for a while.

Edited October 23, 2023 by DocClox

[Trykz]

6 hours ago, DocClox said:

I've been watching with interest, but there really isn't a whole lot to talk about until we have the tools. (It doesn't help that everyone and their dog seem to be insisting I sign up to Discord before I can test their software).

 

One If I had one request after reading this thread it would be: resist the temptation to add gameplay elements to the framework. Mods at this level work best when they are as application agnostic as possible. Building in, say, arousal sounds like a good idea, but the scanning in SLA and derivatives has often proven either buggy or expensive, and if a modder doesn't need that functionality they shouldn't have to work around it.

 

Let's make the framework as boring as possible, and do the cool stuff in mods that take advantage of the API. Something I've been meaning to chip in with for a while.

 

This was exactly my point right from the beginning of this thread.

 

Basic, functional, and stable as possible. I really liked how well things worked between AAF, Real Handcuffs, and Violate.

If you ran just those three, everything just worked. And it worked well. If you stacked on too much more, that's when

things started getting a bit wonky.

 

There were tons of Skyrim mods I wanted to try. Why didn't I? Devious Devices. Thanks, not my cup of tea.

 

Integrate. Don't try to dominate. The fewer hard requirements, the better.

[TheCaptn]

On 10/8/2023 at 5:44 AM, vallixas said:

This is the longest a beth game has taken to release a male nude lol

 

Just FYI, there's a cock you can use now. Theenco put one up on Nexus today... I don't think we have a skin that hides the underwear yet but I'm betting it won't take long.

[ebbluminous]

4 hours ago, TheCaptn said:

 

Just FYI, there's a cock you can use now. Theenco put one up on Nexus today... I don't think we have a skin that hides the underwear yet but I'm betting it won't take long.

I am waioting for the penis shaped spaceship mod

[DocClox]

44 minutes ago, ebbluminous said:

I am waioting for the penis shaped spaceship mod

 

I have a ship with "truck nuts" if that's any good

 

 

[ebbluminous]

1 hour ago, DocClox said:

 

I have a ship with "truck nuts" if that's any good

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

It's a start

[Halstrom]

16 hours ago, ebbluminous said:

It's a start

Yes, sexy Spaceship docking animations are going to be a big thing
"Oh... you are filling my cargo port with so much hot contraband cargo!"

Edited October 25, 2023 by Halstrom

[TheCaptn]

On 10/24/2023 at 11:39 PM, Halstrom said:

Yes, sexy Spaceship docking animations are going to be a big thing
"Oh... you are filling my cargo port with so much hot contraband cargo!"

Which reminds me, I'm really looking forward to having an Ivy style companion who turns literally everything into a cheesy innuendo, from the shape of rocket toys to the word "thrusters"; who wants every alien to have tentacles and every pirate to plunder their booty. Just to a completely over-the-top level...

[Gray User]

On 10/23/2023 at 1:01 PM, Trykz said:

 

This was exactly my point right from the beginning of this thread.

 

Basic, functional, and stable as possible. I really liked how well things worked between AAF, Real Handcuffs, and Violate.

If you ran just those three, everything just worked. And it worked well. If you stacked on too much more, that's when

things started getting a bit wonky.

 

There were tons of Skyrim mods I wanted to try. Why didn't I? Devious Devices. Thanks, not my cup of tea.

 

Integrate. Don't try to dominate. The fewer hard requirements, the better.

 

I would third this. Stability is very important for the foundation mods in the 300modleaninggoddamntowerofpisaheldtogetherbyhornyandwishfulthinkingandloadorderalgorithms that most users run. 

[Mr. Otaku]

Here's my suggestion, name the framework "Sexfield" it'd be perfect.

[BigOnes69]

On 9/10/2023 at 7:54 AM, zaira said:

One idea comes to my mind that I am really missing in Skyrim:

The framework should be free of context - not a sex animation framework but an "Advanced Animation Scene Framework" as the core and then add adult specific stuff as plugins.

This would have a lot of benefits for all:

• We can define non-sex related animation scenes (cuddling, kissing, whipping, BDSM, ass slapping, ...)
• Less danger of being banned
• Find more developers who are willing to contribute but who don't like adult entertainment

 

Have not seen you posting recently. Wondering what happened to you. I know you had a section for Maria Eden on the toys discord site and someone is spamming the shit out of that site. Do you know what is going on with Toys? There are no more posts on Toys mods. Are you going to continue?

[user1984]

One frustration I tend to have is that the sex animation frameworks don't handle height difference well. I tend to play tall males and/or short females. Just a personal preference towards short, buxom females and size difference is a turn on. Sometimes the vanilla game supports height adjustments, sometimes they come with a mod (or console command). The animation framework tends to ignore this possibility. I assume each partner plays out in reference to a single origin point outside of themselves. This enables standard dimension models to match up, but with varied dimensions the key parts don't usually line up. It would be great if the animation framework could be aware of model dimensions and locations of  key parts. Maybe the animation could play in relation of coordinates of genitals. That would ensure that penetration at least plays out correctly. Other parts might be still off, but that might be a better trade-off. Or maybe there could be more than one optional alignment point, and the animator could define which is used, depending if it is genital, boob or oral centric activity. Having the framework be aware of the actual key contact points, and even support collisions/deformations, would be a dream, but is probably overkill. Just aligning based on needs of the particular animation and models would probably get you most of the way there. 

 

Didn't have energy to read through the whole thread. Maybe my concern is there already and answered. Sorry if so.

 

[117xxx]

18 hours ago, user1984 said:

One frustration I tend to have is that the sex animation frameworks don't handle height difference well. I tend to play tall males and/or short females. Just a personal preference towards short, buxom females and size difference is a turn on. Sometimes the vanilla game supports height adjustments, sometimes they come with a mod (or console command). The animation framework tends to ignore this possibility. I assume each partner plays out in reference to a single origin point outside of themselves. This enables standard dimension models to match up, but with varied dimensions the key parts don't usually line up. It would be great if the animation framework could be aware of model dimensions and locations of  key parts. Maybe the animation could play in relation of coordinates of genitals. That would ensure that penetration at least plays out correctly. Other parts might be still off, but that might be a better trade-off. Or maybe there could be more than one optional alignment point, and the animator could define which is used, depending if it is genital, boob or oral centric activity. Having the framework be aware of the actual key contact points, and even support collisions/deformations, would be a dream, but is probably overkill. Just aligning based on needs of the particular animation and models would probably get you most of the way there. 

 

Didn't have energy to read through the whole thread. Maybe my concern is there already and answered. Sorry if so.

 

you can use xxsutility for skyrimse(tips for admin: maybe this mod is born in a not acceptable website,but this mod is useful.

[Halstrom]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:57 PM, user1984 said:

One frustration I tend to have is that the sex animation frameworks don't handle height difference well. I tend to play tall males and/or short females. Just a personal preference towards short, buxom females and size difference is a turn on. Sometimes the vanilla game supports height adjustments, sometimes they come with a mod (or console command). The animation framework tends to ignore this possibility. I assume each partner plays out in reference to a single origin point outside of themselves. This enables standard dimension models to match up, but with varied dimensions the key parts don't usually line up. It would be great if the animation framework could be aware of model dimensions and locations of  key parts. Maybe the animation could play in relation of coordinates of genitals. That would ensure that penetration at least plays out correctly. Other parts might be still off, but that might be a better trade-off. Or maybe there could be more than one optional alignment point, and the animator could define which is used, depending if it is genital, boob or oral centric activity. Having the framework be aware of the actual key contact points, and even support collisions/deformations, would be a dream, but is probably overkill. Just aligning based on needs of the particular animation and models would probably get you most of the way there. 

 

Didn't have energy to read through the whole thread. Maybe my concern is there already and answered. Sorry if so.

 

Till we get to the stage of actual physics of the Vag hole pushing the Penis etc, I doubt there will be perfect alignment with varied body shapes and heights.

[zaira]

On 10/31/2023 at 8:44 AM, BigOnes69 said:

Have not seen you posting recently. Wondering what happened to you. I know you had a section for Maria Eden on the toys discord site and someone is spamming the shit out of that site. Do you know what is going on with Toys? There are no more posts on Toys mods. Are you going to continue?

Don't know what happened to toys  - and yes I am still working on MEP, but with very slow progress. I will only stop when it is possible to continue with Starfield because I like SciFi much more than mid age style.

[Teddar]

2 hours ago, zaira said:

Don't know what happened to toys  - and yes I am still working on MEP, but with very slow progress. I will only stop when it is possible to continue with Starfield because I like SciFi much more than mid age style.

 

Ooh! MEP in space. Lots of possiblilties. Looking forward to that. ?

[Mister E]

If we haven't decided on a name for this framework yet, may I nominate the name SpaceseX? (With the X deliberately capitalized so as to make the joke as unsubtle as possible)

[ebbluminous]

5 hours ago, Mister E said:

If we haven't decided on a name for this framework yet, may I nominate the name SpaceseX? (With the X deliberately capitalized so as to make the joke as unsubtle as possible)

Nah, caused Elon not worthy of such an honour

[Halstrom]

9 hours ago, Mister E said:

If we haven't decided on a name for this framework yet, may I nominate the name SpaceseX? (With the X deliberately capitalized so as to make the joke as unsubtle as possible)

LOL, that's hilarious, I probably would consider that if I made the sexmod. A lot of people hate him but its the modders decision not ours and it would probably end up with him laughing about it initially but buying Beth just to shut it down when the first tentacle pregnancy mod using it happens

Edited November 5, 2023 by Halstrom

[SleepyNinja]

So now that the honeymoon faze is long gone for most people. What's the current stance on Starfield modding? Did Bethesda do right by delaying the modding tools? It seems vanilla Starfield is increasingly being reviewed poorly. Personally I stopped playing 50 hours in, wasn't a big fan of the new "exploration" and the main quest. I did somewhat enjoy the combat though. I might jump back in when the tools drop or the dlc releases. I have no doubt you modders at LoversLab will deliver when the time is right, however I think the sex scene will be more niche than Fallout 4 due to how the game is designed and player sentiment towards the game.

[DocClox]

20 minutes ago, SleepyNinja said:

So now that the honeymoon faze is long gone for most people. What's the current stance on Starfield modding?

 

Frankly, I'm amazed by how far forward it is, given that we're still having to reverse engineer everything.

 

21 minutes ago, SleepyNinja said:

Did Bethesda do right by delaying the modding tools?

 

They took longer than this with Fallout 4. I'm not holding my breath.

 

22 minutes ago, SleepyNinja said:

however I think the sex scene will be more niche than Fallout 4 due to how the game is designed and player sentiment towards the game.

 

Don't take YouTube and Reddit as being representative of players as a whole. I think this is going to be amazing!

[Halstrom]

1 hour ago, SleepyNinja said:

So now that the honeymoon faze is long gone for most people. What's the current stance on Starfield modding? Did Bethesda do right by delaying the modding tools? It seems vanilla Starfield is increasingly being reviewed poorly. Personally I stopped playing 50 hours in, wasn't a big fan of the new "exploration" and the main quest. I did somewhat enjoy the combat though. I might jump back in when the tools drop or the dlc releases. I have no doubt you modders at LoversLab will deliver when the time is right, however I think the sex scene will be more niche than Fallout 4 due to how the game is designed and player sentiment towards the game.

Beth need time to sort vanilla bugs and issues out first without people streaming broken games due to 200 mods they installed 2 hours into their first playthrough. Modders need to ply through the game to know what we are modding before getting too deep into modding instead of playing. 
I'm slowing on Gameplay because at lvl55 its losing some appeal and I'm starting to learn the modding I can do in SFEdit.
As far as how big mods will get, I'm hoping it ends up making it somewhere between FO and Skyrim for popularity.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Halstrom

[TheCaptn]

12 hours ago, SleepyNinja said:

Did Bethesda do right by delaying the modding tools? It seems vanilla Starfield is increasingly being reviewed poorly.

Two good replies above mine, but just to give a little historical context here, 3-6 months is basically the standard gap between a Bethesda game release and their mod tools releasing... The single exception was New Vegas, which released with its GECK because it was largely unchanged from the Fallout 3 GECK. But in comparison the upper end of that scale is Oblivion, which didn't get its Construction Set until a year after release.

This gap that we're waiting through is pretty standard so far. We also know that this has been a major engine revision, with Skyrim, Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 all being built in variants of CK1, but Starfield is the first game of the CK2 era, and that might delay the tools... So even if we're sitting here till February or March waiting on them, that's reeeally gonna suck for us, but it's still within the normal timeframe.

It's a build-it-and-they-will-come situation though. I've seen commenters on YouTube videos suggesting that all these modders will simply leave if there are no tools soon, and that's just not how it works. It's never been that way... Once the tools come out people will start using them to tune the game more to their own preferences. They reinvigorate the game, so more people come back to play again, and some of them take up modding too, etc. It's still going to become a platform for people to project their own ideas onto, even if the tools take a year...

The only possible threat would be an alternative game with an equally powerful set of modding tools releasing ahead of Bethesda and poaching all that enthusiasm and creative potential... But unless CDPR are secretly about to drop some god-tier world building tools for RedEngine, I can't even imagine who'd be in a position to do something like that.

Edited November 8, 2023 by TheCaptn

[Trykz]

2 hours ago, TheCaptn said:

But unless CDPR are secretly about to drop some god-tier world building tools for RedEngine, I can't even imagine who'd be in a position to do something like that.

 

The tools CDPR did release were a joke. Nothing substantive can be done with them.

No worldbuilding tools. No quest building tools. Without those, CP2077's modding

scene is severely limited. Unless another Alt, Judy, or PanAm outfit retexture is enough

for you.

 

CDPR could have saved themselves a LOT of heartache with the disastrous launch of

the game had they released a set of REAL modding tools so modders could squash bugs

and build new content for the game.

 

Releasing a set of Bethesda level tools was suggested more than once to CDPR. And not just by

modders, but a whole slew of highly respected games reviewers as well.

 

They simply didn't want to listen.