No idea how to get Nemesis working in MO2.

[Jotasran]

It never gave me a problem in Vortex,  I installed as a mod, then on the right panel went to Data, then added Nemesis Unlimited Behavior Engine.exe as an executable.

 

When I try to run it, a little counter stating MO2 preparing vfs and then nothing. 

 

I've seen on forums that setting Nemesis as an exception for Windows Defender might help... but that is a complete mystery as to how to do that.  Every article talks about menu options in my windows security that do not seem to exist in my screen.

 

Any ideas on what I should do?

 

Edit:  the entire modding folder where MO2 is is now an exception to Windows Defender.  It doesn't matter.  Thing is, I ran it once when I 1st set it up.  Now I want to tick some check boxes and Nemesis won't come up.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Jotasran

[Varithina]

if you have steam and mo installed in the program files or any of the main windows directories move them out of it, and it should work the same way as installing fnis under mo, install the mod as usual, go up onto the mo2 tool bar and click the two cogs icon to configure an exe file, select add from disk, then navigate through the files in the provided box to nemesis exe, select ok, then go onto the right side of the screen above the esp list where you have the file that is used to run the game, and hit the drop down button then scroll down to nemesis, and the hit the run button, and do what nemesis says, and you should be good, with the output going into the overwrite folder, after that create a new mod from the overwrite folder and activate that just above the overwrite as a new mod.

[Jotasran]

 

6 hours ago, Varithina said:

if you have steam and mo installed in the program files or any of the main windows directories move them out of it,

I've stayed away from the main windows folders in both.  I think MO2 is in C:\Modding\MO2 and I have Steam in C:\games.  Only thing which may be wrong is that MO2 (as did Vortex) uses MyGames in the user directly to store some .inis and such. 

 

6 hours ago, Varithina said:

then go onto the right side of the screen above the esp list where you have the file that is used to run the game, and hit the drop down button then scroll down to nemesis, and the hit the run button, and do what nemesis says, and you should be good, with the output going into the overwrite folder, after that create a new mod from the overwrite folder and activate that just above the overwrite as a new mod.

 

I know I've done nothing like that and didn't see to do that on the installation instructions in Nemesis, but I will try that when I get home. 

 

To be honest, I've tried reading on the Overwrite thing and just don't get it (nothing like it in Vortex).  I know clicking on overwrite opens some data which is last in the LO, and that I can make data into a mod... but not sure of the point.  For example, if I delete a mod that has portions in Overwrite, does the stuff in Overwrite still stay in that created mod?  It's probably not in the scope of this particular post but I've found the thing pretty counter-intuitive.  In any case, I'll do as  you suggest and report back. 

 

Thanks for your help on this

 

 

[Varithina]

34 minutes ago, Jotasran said:

 

I've stayed away from the main windows folders in both.  I think MO2 is in C:\Modding\MO2 and I have Steam in C:\games.  Only thing which may be wrong is that MO2 (as did Vortex) uses MyGames in the user directly to store some .inis and such. 

 

 

It is not a nemesis thing, it is a mo2 thing, any external program exe etc has to be run through mo2, otherwise it does not see the installed mods, so things like fnis, sseedit, bodyslide etc, all have to be set up as executables in mo2, and run through mo2 so that they see all the mods mo2 has installed.

 

Hmm, it used to be stated in the mo2 install guide to set it up as a mobile instance when first running it, no idea if that has changed though, mobile installs however do mean that you need a separate install of mo2 for each game it is managing, though with modern drive sizes that is not too much of a problem.

[traison]

4 hours ago, Jotasran said:

To be honest, I've tried reading on the Overwrite thing and just don't get it (nothing like it in Vortex).  I know clicking on overwrite opens some data which is last in the LO, and that I can make data into a mod... but not sure of the point.  For example, if I delete a mod that has portions in Overwrite, does the stuff in Overwrite still stay in that created mod?

 

The overwrite folder functions as a mod as-is. It is where newly created files get dumped as there's no way for MO2 to know which mod to place new files into. When RaceMenu creates a file, it will appear as if SkyrimSE.exe created it, same applies to any other skse plugin etc. I believe there's an option to force files created by tools to be placed in a specific mod, i.e. you can have BodySlide place files in "BodySlide Data".

 

Creating a mod out of the override folder makes sense when your overwrite folder is otherwise empty, but then you say run FNIS and it dumps its files in overwrite - you can create "FNIS Data" out of it for instance. I do not use this feature either.

 

Uninstalling a mod that has created files in overwrite (an skse plugin for instance) will leave its files in overwrite - again, because there's no association between that file and the source mod. If you want to keep things in check, move these new files to the mods they belong to and next time they're written to they will remain where you placed them. I occasionally move RaceMenu presets to a mod, just to make sure I don't lose them by accident. If I overwrite them in RaceMenu they stay in my presets mod.

 

I don't bother too much with sorting out the overwrite folder, because the conflict resolution tools in MO2 clearly show if the conflict winning file is in overwrite or not - just like it would show any other mod. The only time I mess with the overwrite folder is when it starts to swell up to several gigabytes and its all leftovers from uninstalled mods.

 

Obviously you lose the benefits of a mod manager if all your files end up in overwrite, so you will have to find that balance yourself.

Edited August 17, 2023 by traison

[Jotasran]

3 hours ago, traison said:

If you want to keep things in check, move these new files to the mods they belong to

I'm not sure how to move files to a mod.  Do you mean place them directly under the mod it belongs to?

 

I guess I also don't get how/why files are separated from a mod and then this confuses MO2.  If I download Racemenu, for example, then all files in the zip file belong to Racemenu.  But it seems to me (perhaps incorrectly) that some of the file structure gets removed and thrown into this overwrite folder.  So because I didn't know to do that, if I get rid of a mod, i have mystery files sitting in the last load order.  So if I decide to get rid of Racemenu, then Racemenu bits are left in overwrite... or the mod that I created from it. 

 

When I realized that overwrite was accessed by clicking it (as opposed to just being under the word "overwrite"), I think I had several overwrite files in it.  I created a Mod from it called "Stuff from Overwrite".  Looking at the data within, it looks like the files are from XPMSSE Nemesis Papyrus Stack Fix, an unmanaged Bash Patch, and Combat Gameplay Overhaul.. but also a bunch of other stuff like meshes from armor, animations.    I fully expect to purge some of these mods from the LO as the who reason for going to MO2 in the firstplace was to make it easier to see load order and conflicts visually.  Should I start over and reinstall mods one by one to pair these Owerwite things with the source mod?

[Jotasran]

15 hours ago, Varithina said:

go onto the right side of the screen above the esp list where you have the file that is used to run the game, and hit the drop down button then scroll down to nemesis, and the hit the run button, and do what nemesis says, and you should be good, with the output going into the overwrite folder, after that create a new mod from the overwrite folder and activate that just above the overwrite as a new mod.

When I hit the run button, nemesis says nothing.  A quick counter runs and then it goes away without giving me the chance to tic boxes of the mods I need Nemesis patches for. 

 

Edit:  Btw, I've restarted my computer, and tried to run Nemesis a dozen times or so.  I've read that it can just be quirky.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Jotasran

[Jotasran]

Well, I'm about over MO2.  I know everyone says its better, but I see all over in posts that people struggle to get Nemesis working.  And I can't seem to get Wrye bash to show any text in it's plugin search feature. 

 

I've set exceptions for MO2 and Nemesis in Windows Defender.  I have no other anti-virus.

 

I've turned off Core Isolation Memory Integrity as I've seen posts say to do.

 

I've installed Nemesis through as an executable through MO2 and set up the Nemeis Output "empty mod" with Nemesis pointing to it as opposed to the overwrite folder.

 

I've reinstalled Nemesis to make sure I didn't bugger it up with overwrite issues. 

 

When I run it, the "preparing vfs" notice pops up and show the progress bar fill up but then just disappears with no progress.

 

I guess it must be something I'm doing wrong, because everyone swears by MO2... but Jesus.

[Varithina]

Mo2 is a great tool for managing mods, but it does have a damn steep learning curve, especially if you are coming from another mod manager, does fnis or any other programs xedit or such run and work properly when run through mo2, if they are doing the same thing it could be something is missing from your pc that mo2 requires, but like quite a few of the more modern stuff it will not actually tell you what is missing, it just assumes you know and have installed all that it requires.

 

If you are getting this fed up go back to vortex, you know how that works and can get things working with it, sure mo2 is good but vortex works just as well for things.

[assassin394]

If you mean Nemesis crash during animation generation then its a common thing. Just keep try again. Also keep Nemesis window focus and don't touch anything. Don't switch to Chrome or something like that. In my exprience Nemesis tend to crash more often if I switch to other windows when its running.

[traison]

10 hours ago, Jotasran said:

I'm not sure how to move files to a mod.  Do you mean place them directly under the mod it belongs to?

 

I guess I also don't get how/why files are separated from a mod and then this confuses MO2.  If I download Racemenu, for example, then all files in the zip file belong to Racemenu.  But it seems to me (perhaps incorrectly) that some of the file structure gets removed and thrown into this overwrite folder.  So because I didn't know to do that, if I get rid of a mod, i have mystery files sitting in the last load order.  So if I decide to get rid of Racemenu, then Racemenu bits are left in overwrite... or the mod that I created from it. 

 

When I realized that overwrite was accessed by clicking it (as opposed to just being under the word "overwrite"), I think I had several overwrite files in it.  I created a Mod from it called "Stuff from Overwrite".  Looking at the data within, it looks like the files are from XPMSSE Nemesis Papyrus Stack Fix, an unmanaged Bash Patch, and Combat Gameplay Overhaul.. but also a bunch of other stuff like meshes from armor, animations.    I fully expect to purge some of these mods from the LO as the who reason for going to MO2 in the firstplace was to make it easier to see load order and conflicts visually.  Should I start over and reinstall mods one by one to pair these Owerwite things with the source mod?

 

Right click anywhere in the mod list, select Create Empty Mod; or do it like I do, simply go to the mods directory and create a new subdirectory - that's your mod - refresh the list in MO2 and the mod appears.

 

I already mentioned why files get separated. The reason why you're seeing BodySlide files in overwrite is because the mod that provides the bodyslide files did not come with pre-made meshes. So, when BodySlide creates these meshes for the first time, they're new files. There's no way for MO2 to know which mod provided BodySlide with the shape files from which it generated the meshes, thus the files end up in overwrite. If you absolutely want to keep all files with their respective mods then you need to keep a very close eye on the overwrite folder. In my opinion though this is not worth it. Instead, learn to use the tools at your disposal to track down issues. A stray nif in your overwrite folder isn't going to do anything if its part of some custom armor mod - the ARMA/ARMO records are gone when the mod is uninstalled, there's no more references to that nif. For vanilla replacers you will have to dive into the overwrite folder to remove replacement meshes and textures, but this is again where basic troubleshooting comes in - you see the wrong armor in-game, you track it down with xEdit, locate the file in overwrite and delete it.

 

I don't know about Combat Gameplay Overhaul, but my guess is you probably found some FNIS generated files perhaps. Same deal there, MO2 can't know which mod provided the data files for FNIS when it generated those hkx files.

 

Again, there's a way to force BodySlide, FNIS, etc. to dump all their new files into a specific mod:

 

Edit: If you're still confused about what MO2 does and how it works in the background. Launch the Explorer++ tool from MO2 and view your Skyrim Data directory. Compare it to what you see in the regular Windows File Explorer. This will reveal the magic to you.

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by traison

[Jotasran]

5 hours ago, Varithina said:

does fnis or any other programs xedit or such run and work properly when run through mo2

MO2 doesn't seem to have any requirements that I can see.  But that would explain much if it did.  Nemesis only has C++ redistributable 2019,  but I've installed it several time with vortex and no problems.  Thing is that it worked once and I have physics on the body.  Its just that as I've added mods that require Nemesis, I can't get those running (like combat game overhaul).

[Jotasran]

19 minutes ago, traison said:

So, when BodySlide creates these meshes for the first time, they're new files. There's no way for MO2 to know which mod provided BodySlide with the shape files from which it generated the meshes, thus the files end up in overwrite

Ok.  I think I get that now.  Thanks.  Now I"m curious why vortex doesn't use overwrite.  Is that actually a negative of Vortex? 

[traison]

25 minutes ago, Jotasran said:

Ok.  I think I get that now.  Thanks.  Now I"m curious why vortex doesn't use overwrite.  Is that actually a negative of Vortex? 

 

If you do what I said in the edit of my previous post you may realize that Vortex functions in an entirely different way than MO2. Both have their pros and cons, but in my mind there's no question which one is superior for a modder who truly wants to actually mod the game without fear of bricking their setups.

[Jotasran]

5 hours ago, traison said:

Both have their pros and cons, but in my mind there's no question which one is superior for a modder who truly wants to actually mod the game without fear of bricking their setups

I hear you and believe you.  You've never steered me wrong, Traison.  Learning curves I can deal with...  but I'm really stuck on getting Nemesis to function.  There must be a solution but I'm just not seeing it.  Wrye bash works well enough... I can make a batched patch and I found a mod that detects delinquent masters.  So Nemesis not running is my last real barrier related to MO2.  Hell, it might be a windows 11 specific to MO2 for all I know.  Apparently there are a lot of unhelpful opinions on google university.

[Varithina]

43 minutes ago, Jotasran said:

I hear you and believe you.  You've never steered me wrong, Traison.  Learning curves I can deal with...  but I'm really stuck on getting Nemesis to function.  There must be a solution but I'm just not seeing it.  Wrye bash works well enough... I can make a batched patch and I found a mod that detects delinquent masters.  So Nemesis not running is my last real barrier related to MO2.  Hell, it might be a windows 11 specific to MO2 for all I know.  Apparently there are a lot of unhelpful opinions on google university.

 

Not too sure about the windows 11 issue as that is what my new pc, which is the one I am using runs, I also run mo2 and have run nemesis under it, so chances are something is either missing that either nemesis or mo2 are wanting, or their are firewall/anti virus issues with it, or mo2 is borked in some way, which version of mo2 did you get, the exe installer or the zip file?

 

Just had a though as well which install did you choose when first running mo2, the portable version (one install of mo2 for every game that you are using it with) which is the one usually recommended or the other one which basically uses one install of mo2 for every game it manages.

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Varithina

[Jotasran]

6 hours ago, Varithina said:

which version of mo2 did you get, the exe installer or the zip file?

I can look when I get home, but I got MO2 some time ago.  I think I got it from Nexus, but can't be sure.  What is better to use... exe installer or zip?  Version is 2.4.4 and looks like I downloaded from Nexus.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Jotasran

[traison]

2 hours ago, Jotasran said:

I'm really stuck on getting Nemesis to function.

 

Right, onto the issue at hand then I guess...

 

14 hours ago, Jotasran said:

I've turned off Core Isolation Memory Integrity as I've seen posts say to do.

 

There are some things you shouldn't do, regardless if it means getting bouncy tits happening.

 

On 8/17/2023 at 7:44 AM, Jotasran said:

When I try to run it, a little counter stating MO2 preparing vfs and then nothing.

 

Sometimes when .Net applications crash they do not display error messages. It could be you need a JIT debugger for it to happen. Regardless, the error message is always dumped into Event Viewer (eventvwr.msc). Look for App Crash entries as well as .NET related error entries. Google has the specifics on this no doubt. Start here.

 

If you find nothing relevant in Event Viewer, grab Process Monitor from Sysinternals (Microsoft) and have it log File, Registry and Process/Thread activity while you attempt to launch Nemesis. Does it reveal anything?

 

Plan B could be to attempt to install Nemesis straight into the Skyrim Data directory. Add it as a tool in MO2 like you normally would and run it through there as well. This may resolve some issues tools may have with their Working Directory. This may also be a totally pointless idea and only something you occasionally have to do when you have symlinks in your path (like I used to have).

Edited August 18, 2023 by traison

[Jotasran]

3 hours ago, traison said:

There are some things you shouldn't do, regardless if it means getting bouncy tits happening.

 

Sigh.  It wouldn't be the 1st time that got me in trouble.  I reactivated it.

 

[Jotasran]

4 hours ago, traison said:

Regardless, the error message is always dumped into Event Viewer (eventvwr.msc). Look for App Crash entries as well as .NET related error entries.

OK, I brought up Event Viewer after restarting and starting/failing Nemesis again.  I see under windows logs  there is Application.  Nothing says .net or anything resembling App Crash or Nemesis or anything that jumps out at me.  But this looks alien to me so maybe I'm missing something obvious.

[Jotasran]

4 hours ago, traison said:

grab Process Monitor from Sysinternals (Microsoft) and have it log File, Registry and Process/Thread

Again, beyond my skill set...but I seem to have generated a .PML file without Success in paths containing Nemesis with the Process Name of ModOrganizer.exe.  It's got a lot of "NO MORE FILES" in Result and some Buffer Overflow and End of File messages.  I'd post the file here, but it's got my name in the data path.  Can I send the file directly to you to make sense of?  It's got 3832 events in it.  Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Edited August 19, 2023 by Jotasran

[Varithina]

7 hours ago, Jotasran said:

I can look when I get home, but I got MO2 some time ago.  I think I got it from Nexus, but can't be sure.  What is better to use... exe installer or zip?  Version is 2.4.4 and looks like I downloaded from Nexus.

 

Normally as I use the portable option the first time it runs, I tend to go for the zip version, it is simply download, unzip into a directory you want it to go, I usually unzip into one named after the zip file, copy and paste that directory to where it is finally going to be, rename it to match the game it is going to work with adding mo to the end of it, so for working with skyrim se it would end up skyrim se mo, then run mo2 exe file, first time it should then ask do you want portable or hmm, can not remember what the other option is. I always choose portable.

 

From what I am aware with this though mo2 will if you pick a slight older version than the current, give you the option to update after running, doing so should install all the required files, even if they are not already there.

[Jotasran]

1 hour ago, Varithina said:

I use the portable option the first time it runs, I tend to go for the zip version,

Ok, I downloaded the 7z version of 2.4.3 from github. I've backup both my MO2 folder and the users/apdata.. etc.  folder.  I believe I downloaded instance mode before.  Should I drop the zip into my MO2 folder and overwrite files there... or will it gum up my LO?  Even if its portable as opposed to instance?

[Just Don't]

Why are you using old versions. You can create portable or global instances from the installer. It has nothing to do with the zipped file or installer. And using an old version surely won't help you.

[Jotasran]

Well.... the old version seemed to have worked.  With 2.4.3, I can now get the Nemesis tic box.  I need to reinstall my mods, but don't have reload them.  It sure seems like 2.4.4 just didn't work for me and that Varithina was correct.  Maybe it was a portable vs. instance thing... I don't know.... but Nemesis fired up without a hitch.