Harassment Against Game Devs

[Rayblue]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

 

In Korea, extreme fanatics of pop music are called sasaeng, primarily because they are known to stalk their favorite stars, among other obsessive activities.

 

However, in the case of game developers, a form of harassment has formed over time as games become more widespread and popular.

[Ravana]

How's that for fucked up, eh? I thought Star Trek Online's literally unpleasable player-base was bad, I probably should have guessed less popular games in bigger franchises would have it worse.

 

Shameful, honestly. I don't understand why people feel the need to go so far as DEATH THREATS over a video game that is OBJECTIVELY below expectations. I liked Dragon Age 2 a lot, for example.

 

It makes me wonder in particular how those people act in real life when their restaurant messes up their order or their pharmacy doesn't have their meds. It's a little unnerving.

[Rayblue]

I had a friend who once worked as a forum mod for an MMO operator. Said he was happy at first for accepting the job, as he was idealistic about helping out other players. However, as time went on, it seems that for him, there are those who have a terrible predisposition to threaten management for even the smallest things or changes, and demanding to have it all on an silver platter. Eventually, after six years he gave up and resigned, deciding that staying any longer in such a toxic environment isn't making him healthy.

 

It is all right to criticize, but there are those who have a frightening combination of ill temper and want. We've seen singers who have been shot and killed by fans, and in America, it's not impossible to imagine the horror that in a few years a gamer that has gone ballistic actually drive-by a dev for merely nerfing a weapon.

 

[Astaroth-Lite]

Of all the things to get worked up over. Entertainment isn't worth occasional bickering let alone being worked up to the point of threats of violence. Very, very, very few things are worth going that far; and entertainment isn't even close to them. As Ravana has already stated, it's shameful. Absolutely shameful. People who do or say such things over such trivial matters are the very definition of immaturity.

[gregathit]

Death threats and such are obviously ridiculous and should NOT be allowed in any form.  To bad that we can't hunt these fuckers down and wire their private parts to an electrical outlet.  Send a death threat and get a jolt of electricity to the crotch.  

 

 

However, let's not mix fans complaining about the gaming industries lies, deceits and attempts to push out half a game and sell the rest to you via DLC with some fans going over the top.  Folks who pay money (and often an excessive amount) do have a right to get upset and vocal.  If the game industry can't handle the price of "fame" then they need to go do something else for a living. 

[Koko.Hekmatyar]

I agree with Greg taking it as far as death threats is just asinine and accomplishes nothing especially if you're just talking and have no intention of actually trying to back up said threat as the saying goes "if you can't walk the walk then you shouldn't talk the talk". However, Consumers complaining is a totally different matter all together, Take the ME3 ending debacle people payed 60+ bucks for that game and were disappointed with the ending and had every right to complain but the companies response to their complaints more or less threw rocket fuel on the fire making it worse then it should have been.

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

I could say a lot that could get me banned, but instead I'll just say this;

 

Welcome to the Internet.

[kurisu7885]

The sad price of anonymity.

[Rayblue]

Death threats and such are obviously ridiculous and should NOT be allowed in any form.  To bad that we can't hunt these fuckers down and wire their private parts to an electrical outlet.  Send a death threat and get a jolt of electricity to the crotch.  

 

 

However, let's not mix fans complaining about the gaming industries lies, deceits and attempts to push out half a game and sell the rest to you via DLC with some fans going over the top.  Folks who pay money (and often an excessive amount) do have a right to get upset and vocal.  If the game industry can't handle the price of "fame" then they need to go do something else for a living. 

 

I understand that it is necessary to complain, but an extreme minority tends to be louder, and also blur the distinction between a legitimate complaint and a veiled threat.

 

Also, I am not in defense of the big corporate game companies (I wonder if there was a Congressional investigation into their business practices, however that'll require a different thread for such a discussion), but there is a price to be paid for gaining celebrity as a dev -- or a modder -- in the public eye because if you do go online (moreso with your real name) you have to be calm and professional in speech and writing, keep a spine and gain thick skin to deal with the Internet.

 

There are those in the industry who aren't meant to be working there, and so these tend to misunderstand the customer base they're supposed to sell to, and use the wrong words to describe it or what they're doing. Pick the wrong words during an interview, or sell a bad product that looks clean on the outside, and these'll incite anger.

[Captain Cobra]

Goodbye Hamburger Helper, you will not be missed.

[Emily]

 New heights of Nerd Rage.

[Dragonovich]

I think this is just a new form of constructive criticism 

[javamonsoon]

It all points back to the industry itself. For years they have been pushing shovelware AAA-games (Blops 1,2,3,4,5,6, Madden 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, the list goes on and on), then they start promising things and don't deliver, defend themselves by calling crap-implementation a feature and call upon artistic integrity and still expect us to lap it all up like good little minions and pay top-dollar for sub-standard bullshit.

 

While I not condone violence in consumer-disputes (verbal, physical, implied or made real), it's about time the gamers took the fight to the devs. Game-reviewers can't be trusted, the reviewboard itself isn't independant but actually staffed by the industry and there's no independant quality control/ consumer watchdog.

 

It's safer to buy a kitchen-appliance than a computer-game, really.

 

There's also still the crazy believe amongst the gamers themselves that a game is entertainment and that we as gamers should therefore pipe down. Don't like it, don't buy it. Gamers are the perfect demographic for any group of codemonkeys looking to cash in on a half-baked idea. We buy, because entertainment and we make rockstars out of devs. (Cliffy B. Todd Howard. Peter Molinaux. Will Wright. and more)

 

Not only do we need a culture-change within the gamer-demographic, we also need to see a paradigm-shift within the industry. They are nothing more than service-providers and they aren't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. They're not a charity, nor are they charitable. They offer a service that is in relation to other things extremely overpriced for the state of the shovelware they dump on us.

 

As long as the larger segment of the gamer-community kisses the butts of devs and act as their apologist-army, the industry sits on a twice-inflated stay out of jail card. And they're milking it for it's worth.

 

More vocal gamers? Yes, please. Stop being an ATM and start demanding quality for your money. It frigging doesn't grow on trees.

[Guest]

I agree that we need to demand a higher quality, but the best way to do that is to vote with our wallets and provide constructive criticism. These death threats or just spewing vitriol are never an acceptable way to criticize anything, and only serves to perpetuate the stereotype that we're all just immature losers.

 

The article mentions Black Ops 2 and the "feedback" that the dev received from a balance change. A change that, if you were to ask people who aren't screaming manchildren, was apparently needed. How in any way is "Today I go out buy a sniper rifle kill you and your family sell you're body to a convicted rapist that is also a necropheliac!"  or "End your fucking life you cancer cunt i will fuck your daughter," taking the fight to them? If I were a dev, all it would show me is these people are throwing a tantrum because they didn't get what they want, and are making threats to rape my daughter because of it.

 

Yes, we need a culture change. We need to push the fact that threats and similar bullshit is unacceptable and only serves to make us look bad, rather than being a push for higher quality. In fact, depending on the situation, the rage just pushes for the status quo again actually stifling any advance in quality because of developers who don't want to be sent threats of some armchair developer hiring "a bunch of black guys to violate your daughter". 

 

Yes, we should be more vocal, but we need to actually say something rather than frothing at the mouth like a lot of these vocal gamers do. I also agree about a change in the industry, because as someone who want to be a game dev I'm aware that it's the publishers that are screwing both developer and consumer alike.

[Captain Cobra]

Gosh, you goyim are entitled.

 

You should be HAPPY to eat shit!

[javamonsoon]

Gosh, you goyim are entitled.

 

You should be HAPPY to eat shit!

You must be a Bioware employee! LOLOL

 

@Nixon,

 

The noise of the extremely vocal still pales in comparison with the events in Korea shortly following the launch of Diablo III. Gamers there actually sacked the Blizzard of Korea offices, as in, angry horde with pitchforks and rakes.

 

Recent releases show that the industry hasn't learned one bit from Blizzard's fiasco, or at least reckon that they're not in Korea and therefore rather safe. No, I'm not calling for a raid on Canada (where most studios are based now), but I would like the industry to start taking us seriously and not as gametest-cattle that pays them.

 

All changes start with chaos, but if we truly want that change that most people really want then we'll have to get the devs' attention first. Because kissing their butts in their official forums clearly didn't work. (or at the very least backfired) Stuff like that is never pretty. If the referenced outcry is the right way of going about things I can't tell. It's my personal experience that being less than cordial begets some interesting results, often immediately so.

 

Especially where it pertains the industry, being friendly and understanding never bought us anything but a perpetuation of half-assed crap at a premium.

 

Changes are happening though.

-EA dropped the always online requirement for The Sims 4. They are also considering doing away with always online across the board.

-Bioware returned to giving the player extensive options with Dragon Age: Inquisition and have stated their intent to drop the dumbing down of their franchises.

-Maxis stated their intent to return to their roots with The Sims 4, focusing more on experience and gameplay than on collecting ingredients to bake an apple-pie. (If they still remember how awesome they used to be, that is.)

-Microsoft and their Xbone fiasco. Enough said.

 

(As an aside, EA is really working on change. They astound me, really.)

 

I do think it's still early to really cry 'change!' and even though I too think that the extremely vocal are taking things too far, without them we wouldn't even have the current changes. It's good to realise that.

[Dragonovich]

I love DRM, day one DLC, subpar gameplay, and buggy/glitched games! 

[javamonsoon]

I love DRM, day one DLC, subpar gameplay, and buggy/glitched games! 

Then you'll love the half-assed indie-games on Steam.

[Rayblue]

 

 

All changes start with chaos, but if we truly want that change that most people really want then we'll have to get the devs' attention first. 

 

Hopefully not setting off a car bomb right in front of their offices.

 

The most acceptable methods are putting up an online petition or even organizing a consumers' association.

 

 

BTW, has anyone remembered Derek Smart?

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

When has an online petition ever done anything more than just make you laugh?

[javamonsoon]

 

 

 

All changes start with chaos, but if we truly want that change that most people really want then we'll have to get the devs' attention first. 

 

Hopefully not setting off a car bomb right in front of their offices.

 

The most acceptable methods are putting up an online petition or even organizing a consumers' association.

 

 

BTW, has anyone remembered Derek Smart?

 

Online petition? Seriously? Maybe we can also get a bunch of schoolgirls to make lists of our discontents? By now, I think that devs are more worried about being on a schoolgirl's blacklist than being the focus of an online petition...

[Rayblue]

 

 

 

 

All changes start with chaos, but if we truly want that change that most people really want then we'll have to get the devs' attention first. 

 

Hopefully not setting off a car bomb right in front of their offices.

 

The most acceptable methods are putting up an online petition or even organizing a consumers' association.

 

 

BTW, has anyone remembered Derek Smart?

 

Online petition? Seriously? Maybe we can also get a bunch of schoolgirls to make lists of our discontents? By now, I think that devs are more worried about being on a schoolgirl's blacklist than being the focus of an online petition...

 

 

Well, given that America has more lawyers than any other country, yeah whale gamers can sue if they want.

[javamonsoon]

Well, given that America has more lawyers than any other country, yeah whale gamers can sue if they want.

That is of course, if the TOS/EULA for a given product doesn't prohibit law-suit/class action. Don't overlook that using the product is agreeing with the TOS/EULA. That also goes for Loverslab. I rarely read them, as common sense keeps you within the boundaries mostly, but the bottom-line is that it is understood that using a product is agreeing with any rules that are in place.

 

This is the main problem with computergames. You do your research by checking the dev-reports (if any), reading reviews (by bullshit reviewers who are afraid to lose their goodie-bags and free copies of games/review products) and you still end up with posh-crap you have no way of throwing back in the devs' faces, other than returning it to the shop and saddle the retailer with RMAs. (The retailer gets punished, not the devs.) And with digital sales gaining more ground, pretty soon you can't even do that anymore. (Origin and Steam have no-refund policies in place. Understandable if you ask me.)

 

The relationship between service-provider and consumer when it comes to computergames is way off. This kind of inequality, as I've mentioned before, does not exist when you buy a simple kitchen-appliance. You can even buy fruit, discover it's spoiled and return it problem-free. I don't care what considerations devs have. The legitimate buyer of a computer-game is a victim. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

It must change.

[BruceWayne]

Actually, EA allows for 7 days refunds on digital sales on Origin. https://help.ea.com/article/returns-and-cancellations

 

It's the only thing where they are ahead of Steam.

[Rayblue]

 

Well, given that America has more lawyers than any other country, yeah whale gamers can sue if they want.

That is of course, if the TOS/EULA for a given product doesn't prohibit law-suit/class action. Don't overlook that using the product is agreeing with the TOS/EULA. That also goes for Loverslab. I rarely read them, as common sense keeps you within the boundaries mostly, but the bottom-line is that it is understood that using a product is agreeing with any rules that are in place.

 

This is the main problem with computergames. You do your research by checking the dev-reports (if any), reading reviews (by bullshit reviewers who are afraid to lose their goodie-bags and free copies of games/review products) and you still end up with posh-crap you have no way of throwing back in the devs' faces, other than returning it to the shop and saddle the retailer with RMAs. (The retailer gets punished, not the devs.) And with digital sales gaining more ground, pretty soon you can't even do that anymore. (Origin and Steam have no-refund policies in place. Understandable if you ask me.)

 

The relationship between service-provider and consumer when it comes to computergames is way off. This kind of inequality, as I've mentioned before, does not exist when you buy a simple kitchen-appliance. You can even buy fruit, discover it's spoiled and return it problem-free. I don't care what considerations devs have. The legitimate buyer of a computer-game is a victim. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

It must change.

 

 

I know.

 

"The customer is always right." -- Selfridge.

 

Perhaps because of this phrase we're getting shitty games most of the time.