You need to stop...

[Lagoon0654]

Hmm I'm sort of with the OP on this one, in that it can be a little tedius.

 

But overall, the current setup is  fine imo.

[Bob Minos]

Seriously, I'll say it one more time, 99% percent of requests NEVER get fulfilled.  Can you now see why it is pointless to have individual threads that cater to something that will just be ignored or bumped forever?  That is just a waste of server space and bandwidth.

 

If you want something made or ported, then what you need to do is learn to mod yourself.  Most of the mods that exist today, be they clothing, armor, quests, overhauls or whatever, came to be as a result of an individual wanting something that didn't exist and that no one was willing to spend the time to make.  Most all of these individuals had zero knowledge of modding.  They just rolled up their sleeves and got after it.

 

Having a subsection of requests won't get them met, nor will it get them attention.  Instead, folks need to stop waiting on others and figure out how to make things themselves.  There are a number of tutorials on this site and others.  There are also a number of folks here that are willing to help coach you along.

 

This ^... I know that's how Mr. Dave got started way back (only because I know him), and ended up in the industry for a long time now because of it. I also started that way, but my turnout is a bit different.

[kurisu7885]

Figuring out how to just make it yourself is good for some, but for some of us any of it just flies over our heads.

[Debaster]

Yeah, making mods is crazy hard. So modders really only have time(that isn't occupied by work/family/angsting/pron) for making mods that they want. Nothing in life is free. There wouldn't be nearly as many request threads in the first place if more people learned basic stuff like load order/hair stripes or coloring armor with photoshop/anything involving the CK/ reweighting armors for diff bodies etc. And would there be such a high demand for them if mods weren't so complicated and time-consuming to make? 

 

As someone who starting modding with Oblivion, I gotta say it's progressed a lot faster and mods are far more user friendly. During Oblivion, it seemed over my head, and it was confusing as fuck, and I'm still not that knowledgeable, but I can at least understand the expense that comes with making a mod. You think this shit is over your head? Try designing even a simple GUI. that.shit.is.murder. but anyone can learn it. you either really want it or you don't.

 

[gregathit]

Figuring out how to just make it yourself is good for some, but for some of us any of it just flies over our heads.

 

 

Sorry but that is just nonsense.  Anyone can learn to mod, IF they are willing to take the time and effort to do so.  It isn't rocket science.  You just have to be willing to spend the time reading numerous tutorials and experimenting.  99.9% of the modders here and elsewhere knew next to nothing about modding or armatures when they started out.

 

Let's call a spade a spade.  If you are unwilling to take the time and effort to learn, then just say it straight out instead of beating around the bush.

[javamonsoon]

 

Figuring out how to just make it yourself is good for some, but for some of us any of it just flies over our heads.

 

 

Sorry but that is just nonsense.  Anyone can learn to mod, IF they are willing to take the time and effort to do so.  It isn't rocket science.  You just have to be willing to spend the time reading numerous tutorials and experimenting.  99.9% of the modders here and elsewhere knew next to nothing about modding or armatures when they started out.

 

Let's call a spade a spade.  If you are unwilling to take the time and effort to learn, then just say it straight out instead of beating around the bush.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. Learning to mod for Skyrim is brickwall city. In my profession, industrial mechanic, I'm on the other side of the coin. I can talk shop with my peers in a manner that is medieval chinese to the unitiated. I can write you a paper on something extremely simple that is so dense and arcane it defies belief. When it comes to modding for Skyrim I might as well drop the thought right now.

 

Willing to take the time is not the same as having the time to go with it. This is for me, as much as everybody else, a way to relax. Play a game.

 

In my opinion, you're combing with broad strokes. A can do it, so B should be able too. So yeah, I'll give you a selection of tools which are totally not up to the job which you'll soon discvover, give you some basic knowledge without really explaining things beyond that and then expect you to service a mammoth-CAT. Experiment while you're at it. I'm pretty sure you'll get the machine humming like a bumblebee in no time at all. Don't give up! You can do it too! Just be happy I'm not a brain-surgeon, things could be worse.

 

You'll have to accept that there are people who genuinely can't grasp the CK/Papyrus concepts, even if they wanted too. The people are lazy card is oftenly pulled too soon, generally speaking.

 

While I personally was able to pick up the absolute basics fairly easy, finding relevant information that doesn't rely on the reader being a grizzled modder is downright murder. After two days of fruitlessly scouring the internet, official Beth-forums included, I've come to the conclusion that the frustration isn't worth it. Motivation to learn to do what I want be damned.

 

What it all boils down to, is talent and aptitude. My profession has always been an open book for me, I never had to reach, never had to work for knowledge and never felt like I was way in over my head. Here I'm just another noob without a clue. I just lack the aptitude to connect the dots without a mountain of documentation that's to the point. I'm not too big to freely admit to that.

 

In closing, your post just isn't fair towards a good group of people.

[Vioxsis]

 

What it all boils down to, is talent and aptitude.

 

 

So my time and effort accounts for nothing? All the times i failed, all the times looking for an answer to a question i didn't know how to ask, all the times wasting hours on something only for it not to come to fruition, searching out information from multiple places/sources and then searching out the information to understand the first piece of information means nothing?

 

That one sentence is not fair to a good, but smaller group of people.         

[javamonsoon]

 

 

What it all boils down to, is talent and aptitude.

 

 

So my time and effort accounts for nothing? All the times i failed, all the times looking for an answer to a question i didn't know how to ask, all the times wasting hours on something only for it not to come to fruition, searching out information from multiple places/sources and then searching out the information to understand the first piece of information means nothing?

 

That one sentence is not fair to a good, but smaller group of people.         

 

To clarify that bit.., It doesn't mean that it leaves people unable to learn anything new. Talent/no-talent is not mutually exclusive, it just means that those without talent have to work a lot harder. In and on itself that's not a bad thing, but you have to ask yourself if it in the end is worth it. You obviously thought it was, I decided it wasn't.

 

By the way, you ran into the same problems I did. Given the fact that you got angry with that particular passage, I do believe that you too doubt the value of your modding-skills. I sense that you feel that you've been through too much for what you eventually ended up with. Otherwise that passage wouldn't have stood out to you.

[Vioxsis]

That sentence bothered me because I've heard it too many times, Its patronising, it only recognises the end result as something to be expected, and not the time, effort and work put in to it.      

 

whether i have talent or not doesn't negate all the work i put in to learning all i know. 

 

 

And it won't have been just us that ran in to those problems every one who tried would have.

And doubt is not worth wasting time on, better to just fail, at least that meant you tried. 

 

[Demonhunter]

 

Snip----

 

Im a house painter, So im as dumb as they come, i started modding about 2 yrs ago. my first model was absolutly shit!!!!!

Now im not saying i'm an uber awesome modder, but i learnt through trial and error. So... Yes, modding comes down to patience and persistence. beleive me when i say, i wanted to give it up sooooooooooo many times, even leanring to go through the ck was a mission. but in about 5mth's  i was able to create some awesome looking swords for skyrim (Its my love) 2yrs down the track and finally my textures look decent. 

 

And from what i understand from Greg, he means, as you very well know, your trade took time to learn, as does modding.

But i do agree with the fact that some people are just naturally good, But their are some that are great, its usually these people who work harder to acheive their goals than the ones who need not try, that make the better mods. 

 

To say that if you gave people the tools to fix something you have done for years and expect them to know it, is a complete contradiction to your argument,

 

It takes time 

 

Just my oppinion as little as it is 

[javamonsoon]

 

 

Snip----

 

Im a house painter, So im as dumb as they come, i started modding about 2 yrs ago. my first model was absolutly shit!!!!!

Now im not saying i'm an uber awesome modder, but i learnt through trial and error. So... Yes, modding comes down to patience and persistence. beleive me when i say, i wanted to give it up sooooooooooo many times, even leanring to go through the ck was a mission. but in about 5mth's  i was able to create some awesome looking swords for skyrim (Its my love) 2yrs down the track and finally my textures look decent. 

 

And from what i understand from Greg, he means, as you very well know, your trade took time to learn, as does modding.

But i do agree with the fact that some people are just naturally good, But their are some that are great, its usually these people who work harder to acheive their goals than the ones who need not try, that make the better mods. 

 

To say that if you gave people the tools to fix something you have done for years and expect them to know it, is a complete contradiction to your argument,

 

It takes time 

 

Just my oppinion as little as it is 

 

My gripe was related to the post I qouted there.

That "Download the tools and do it"-attitude that's prevalent in the bethesda-modding-community is coming from people that already know how to do that stuff. In that light, my parallel is correct. I know my trade inside and out and to give a noob a handful of tools, little, or too advanced info and then sending him off to do a trained person's job while providing little to no back-up is quite the same thing.

 

Brickwall city.

 

Point is, that if you want people to take up something, merely providing them with a bucket of nails is not going to do anything for them unless you also provide a hammer and something to hammer those nails in.

[Demonhunter]

Depends on what your looking to do?

Make models, convert armors, scripting?

Honestly if i can do it so can you. you obviously want/ed to learn how to, their are tutoorials on how to do it and alot of people willing to help get you started. 

But if you dont want to or have given up then thats by your choice not that their isn help out their. 

If you are however still interested i myslef use blender. i think its a very simple program to use, if you want to model stuff. i have also written two tutorials on how to get started using it. 

 

Blender Tut1

Blender Tut2

 

If your into wanting to script or that stuff a couple of Pm's may help you. but i leave this to you to decide. 

 

 

[gregathit]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. Learning to mod for Skyrim is brickwall city. In my profession, industrial mechanic, I'm on the other side of the coin. I can talk shop with my peers in a manner that is medieval chinese to the unitiated. I can write you a paper on something extremely simple that is so dense and arcane it defies belief. When it comes to modding for Skyrim I might as well drop the thought right now.

 

 

 

Willing to take the time is not the same as having the time to go with it. This is for me, as much as everybody else, a way to relax. Play a game.

 

In my opinion, you're combing with broad strokes. A can do it, so B should be able too. So yeah, I'll give you a selection of tools which are totally not up to the job which you'll soon discvover, give you some basic knowledge without really explaining things beyond that and then expect you to service a mammoth-CAT. Experiment while you're at it. I'm pretty sure you'll get the machine humming like a bumblebee in no time at all. Don't give up! You can do it too! Just be happy I'm not a brain-surgeon, things could be worse.

 

You'll have to accept that there are people who genuinely can't grasp the CK/Papyrus concepts, even if they wanted too. The people are lazy card is oftenly pulled too soon, generally speaking.

 

While I personally was able to pick up the absolute basics fairly easy, finding relevant information that doesn't rely on the reader being a grizzled modder is downright murder. After two days of fruitlessly scouring the internet, official Beth-forums included, I've come to the conclusion that the frustration isn't worth it. Motivation to learn to do what I want be damned.

 

What it all boils down to, is talent and aptitude. My profession has always been an open book for me, I never had to reach, never had to work for knowledge and never felt like I was way in over my head. Here I'm just another noob without a clue. I just lack the aptitude to connect the dots without a mountain of documentation that's to the point. I'm not too big to freely admit to that.

 

In closing, your post just isn't fair towards a good group of people.

 

 

 

Disagree all you like, but the facts remain.  If you are unwilling to put in the time then you will be unable to master the skills.  It is NO different than anything else.  There is no easy button for modding.   There IS however a shit load of videos on youtube as well as a metric ton of tutorials for damn near everything.  You HAVE to be willing to spend the time, you have to be willing to do a bunch of reading, you have to be willing to do a lot searching, you have to be willing to do a ton of tinkering and finally you have to accept that you will make a crap load of errors.  Modding your game is an acquired skill that NO ONE is born with, making mods is merely the next step.

 

Take a specific modding feature: animating with blender.  It is crazy hard to learn how to do.  It has taken me 8 months of making a shit load of errors, but I am finally comfortable with it.  I wanted to learn it bad enough that I stuck with it.  I still have only scratched the surface of animating as there are tons of things (like IK constraints) that I still don't know how to do.  Modeling is another feature, one in which I am just starting to learn.  No one can learn everything all at once, you ease into it based on what you are interested in.

 

 

What you are talking about in rather wordy fashion is ease of use.  If a person is too busy or lazy or whatever, to bother with taking the time to learn, then that is their obstacle to overcome.  Don't confuse aptitude with effort.  They are not and will never be the same thing.   It matters not what portion of modding you are trying to learn, it CAN be done by ANYONE who devotes the time and effort towards it.   Giving up after searching for 2 days is a lackluster effort, sorry but that is just the blunt truth.  You clearly are not motivated enough and are blaming ease of use as your obstacle.  I am NOT saying that everyone "should" learn modding.  I am saying "anyone" CAN, if they spend the necessary time.  

 

To address your specific example of papyrus - well, that is what amounts to a foreign language.  You'll need to devote the same amount of time and effort to learning it as you would French or German (assuming you don't already know those languages).  It isn't a snap your fingers type deal, but then nothing really satisfying ever is, now is it?

[dobmc]

dammit gregathit

[javamonsoon]

Gregathit,

 

It depends. I speak five languages and a bunch of dialects related to the repective languages. Like my profession, I never had to study particularly hard. To illustrate, english is my fourth (yes, fourth) language. My avatar is not an easthetic. I'm indonesian.

 

While we both agree that anyone can pick something up, we seem to disagree on one perspective that is actually very important. There will be always a group of people that just can't do something, no matter how hard they try.

 

Another personal example. I have absolutely no musical bone in my body. While my subrace are natural dancers, I can't dance because I can't keep a beat. I never could. I fuck up a basic four-count on the third bar. It's pathetic. It has always been a flaw I hated, because I think that the ability to take up an instrument and to make music is one of the most awesome things a human can do. I have a guitar and took many lessons, but eventually my teacher (who could easily just have taken my money indefinately) even told me that making music is just not for me. I can play some chords, but after years it still sounds mechanical, like a kid ragging on the strings ear-tormenting.

I just can't do it.

 

The ability to realise that something is out of your realm of understanding is more important than being pigheaded and spending a lot of time breaking brickwalls. Even though I was able to grasp the very basics quite easily (CreationKit Wiki did a good job there), spending two days to go from there and not getting anywhere, is no matter how you defend it, bordering on insanity.

 

->Insanity: The act of repeating the same action over and over again and expecting a different result each time.

 

And I'm not talking about two evenings. I'm retired and have all the time in the world to learn something new. Now here's why I gave up on modding after 'merely two days'. I just can't connect the dots with the knowledge that I did gain and what I tried to learn after that. That's a very important red flag right there. It still doesn't mean that I can't do papyrus. They esp-s I did make work in my game, however simple and crude they may be.

However, if one just can't get the information to click, it's better to walk away. It's not as if knowing papyrus will make me a better person. (Beyond the fact that I too can then join the ranks of people who can cut other people down by telling them to learn before asking.)

 

You just can't expect people to scurry off and learn something just because you did. That's preposterous. You're not operating in a vacuum afterall. Ironically, I agree that anyone can learn something. With my guitar-skills I can play a very simple melody. I 'can play the guitar'.

Yet, it isn't given to everybody to progress beyond that, no matter how skilled they are in other fields.

 

So here's an idea. If all the people who are so big on the idea that if they can do something, everybody else can do it like them.., why don't they meet those of us willing to learn half way? Take a look at the CreationKit Wiki and start writing tutorials that hook directly into the basics that are given there.

 

Mind you, those people must be willing to spend the time though...

(oops)

[Ark of Truth]

In the words of Tifa.

 

dilly dally shilly shally

[gregathit]

Mind you, those people must be willing to spend the time though...

(oops)

 

All of your points contradict this last statement.  This is what I am basing my argument upon.  Aptitude is NOT the issue and never will be for basic modding.  It may be more of a struggle for some than others, but it can still be done.

 

I am NOT talking about sitting down in front of blender or 3dsmax and creating a body\clothing\armor from scratch.  I am NOT talking about creating animations.   Those are very advanced modding techniques that only a tiny handful of folks are motivated enough to learn.

 

I AM talking about using the CK to make or modify basic mods.  That is how every modder here and else where started.  I wasn't born modding.  In fact, until 6 years ago, I could barely even install mods.  I learned how to mod when there were no youtube tutorials, or written tutorials for that matter.  It was an uphill battle all the way.  I often rage quit for a while and then would come back and try again.  I am stubborn like that.  

 

Bottom line, I am convinced that effort and desire are far more important than aptitude.  Stubbornness to refuse to let something beat you will win out every time versus mere "intellect" when it comes to modding.  The real questions to modding, like many other things in life is "how bad do you want to learn and what are you prepared to suffer to do so".  No pain, no gain.  Anyone who tells you that modding is painless or easy, is blowing smoke up your tail pipe.  However.......it is rewarding when you reach the top of that mountain and can look around.     

 

 

Either way, this has been fun and if you still feel a barrier to entry exists that is not based upon the desire to do so, then so be it.  We probably will never succeed in convincing the other, regardless of how clever we word our arguments, so it is a waste of one another's time to go any further.

 

Cheers,

Greg

[javamonsoon]

I'm just amazed that you fail to notice that I actually agree with you. But yeah, I agree once again. It was fun.

[Maviaux]

...Well then!

 

I think this thread has served it's purpose and many-a-thing have been learned this day.

 

Cookies anyone?

[Rax]

a couple years ago i went way out of my way to learn modding, the basics of files and how skyrim interacts with them, even going so far as to get 3ds max and start modeling. let me just say, this stuff is *not* easy. i sympathize a lot wit the requesters, and learned enough to do most of what i want by myself. it's great. for a simple tweak, do it yourself, but for something advanced, like sexlab framework for instance, we have specialists that create mods for the whole community. do not think this goes unappreciated - but the masses will always ask for more. a lot of people put zero effort into DIY and still request inane changes for their specific needs, which is not entirely ridiculous. the forum moderators are catering to the people who are providing the community with the big, advanced, amazing mods, which in turn allows us lowbies easy access. unless you are contributing something, you have no justifiable right to bitch about your thread being locked or moved into its proper place... and even if you do make a mod, it could still be in the wrong place. so just deal. we are not out to quash your voice, this website is designed to provide *everyone* with the most accessible and user-friendly content that is not available anywhere else on the web. honestly, figure out how the site works before you ask to change it. otherwise your just being a problem.

[javamonsoon]

Agreed, Alazam.

 

It got me thinking though. Over the last year or so, many people gained a lot of experience modding. That knowledge does however have a tendency to stay where it is, with the modder. (not withstanding those who do share the knowledge.) If a modder stops modding, he takes his knowledge with him.

 

I would imagine that a tutorial-subsection would add greatly to LL.

 

That subsection could have tutorials that range from the proverbial hand-holding all the way to papers that assume more than a working knowledge of the CK and Papyrus.

 

Also, a subsection where modders involved with SL, or creating mods for SL, or creating adult mods in general, share their scripts with clear explanations of how the script works and why they choose to go about it the way they did. (Merely sharing bits of code is pointless, people should understand the code they're looking at before using it in their own scripts.)

 

That way, a repository can be arrived at that will be quite an asset to the LL-community in the long run and might add to lowering the barrier for prospective modders and might be a steppingstone towards a community that not only helps eachother learning, but also to one that encourages to create quality-mods and the volume of them. (And also maybe the possibility that eventually people will be able to tell if a modder was taught in the LL-school of modding.)

[johnnyboy88]

I'm of the opinion that there should be a sub-forum for requests. I noticed some of the reasons behind not doing a sub forum was about catering to those that request, or increasing server load and activty by multiple bumps. Then just make a rule of no bumps allowed. If it gets bumped it gets locked.  That way people can easily see if there's been activity, discussion, interest. If there's even just two people interested in something it has a better chance of actually getting made. I also don't see how that's any more work for moderators. It wouldn't increase server load because it would be the same number of requests whether anything came of it or not. Also, if two people start talking there's always a chance their ideas might interest a third or a fourth. A discussion in PM's will never attract more attention to an idea.

 

Another reason is just the other day I saw a request thread made to make a mod to move the camera in first person. All that's required for that is to open up NifSkope and move the camera position. Easily done and doesn't require a mod.  I didn't have time to wait for the individual to see the their thread locked, wait for them to post in the uber request thread, hope I see it, then supply my answer hoping they'd see it, before it all got buried.  So I just sent a PM.  An answer like that though may help others with a similar need and it would be easy to see the answer.

 

Finally, having a separate thread would make it easier for experienced modders to help new people with creating their own mods even if they don't want to get fully involved. The experienced modders can provide tips and direction when they feel like it. And again continous bumping asking for help, aka begging, would get locked. But having a discussion between a begining modder and an advanced modder will help new modders and benifit all.  People will easily be able to see where the knowledge is and info that might help them due to the thread size. Another important reason for  no bump rule.

 

Anyway, that's my opinion.

[Vioxsis]

That's only true if people use search...

 

I have repeated the same advise to different people in the technical support so many times...

What makes you think a "request sub-forum" will make any difference.

 

And i can't speak for others but i don't see a difference between 1 person wanting something or 100 people wanting it,

its the same work regardless.    

 

 

 

[winny257]

I am quite of your opinion, although there is a lot that appears over and over again! but there are also themes that are highly interesting and which has already been a strong correspondence. there are people who try to make a new animation which, after several months of writing and simply locked on "Where can I find ... - Adult Skyrim requests" made​​!
try this I mean, you all can see here!

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/17010-req-dragon-swallowing-animations/

 

german \ deutsch !

 

ich bin ganz eurer meinung , es gibt zwar eine menge , daß immer und immer wieder neu auftaucht ! es gibt aber auch themen die hoch interessant sind und wo schon ein starker schriftverkehr stattgefunden hat . es sind menschen die versuchen eine neue animation zu machen , die werden nach mehr monatigen schreiben einfach gesperrt und auf " Where can I find...? - Skyrim Adult Requests " verwiesen !
dieser versuch den ich meine , könnt ihr alle hier sehen !