Old HDT Support Thread.

[fenrir19]

Got this working with The Joy of Perspective last night (using the 10-9 vers). Holy crap is it awesome.

 

wow i must try this immediately  o,o

btw is it has conflict if i use JOP ?

[Monsto Brukes]

I gave this mod a go yesterday and it was a pleasure to say the least. Walking up and down Riverwood naked never got old, mesmerising stuff. Combat also worked really well. I'd like to see the effect tamed just a touch, although it's miles better than I was expecting there's still a bit of a 'jelly on a plate' effect going on.

 

I use the standard XPMS skelly and a UNPB TBBP body courtesy of Mr Trouble. Most of my armors are BBP but sadly none have butt weighting. But dat ass wobble when you stop walking, man.....

 

I was taking quite a performance hit, losing 15 fps in places I'd normally get around 35 which is pretty unplayable for me. So reluctantly I uninstalled.

 

This is absolutely first class work though, I'm so impressed with how smoothly it worked for me. 

 

Thanks for the report.

 

Did you have to apply the jitter fix? The mod alone shouldn't affect framerate.

[Monsto Brukes]

here's what I've come up with so far for documenting the xml file.

 

[File deleted. see 2nd post of this thread]

 

The bulk of it at this point is setup recommendations, but my parameter discoveries are towards the end. 

 

Anyone find inertiaAndMassInv for butt- and pre-bones?

 

Think I should add anything else? reply to post this with your info and try to I'll add it as needed.

[fenrir19]

here's what I've come up with so far for documenting the xml file.

 

hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml_Doc_v1.pdf

 

The bulk of it at this point is setup recommendations, but my parameter discoveries are towards the end. 

 

Anyone find inertiaAndMassInv for butt- and pre-bones?

 

Think I should add anything else? reply to post this with your info and try to I'll add it as needed.

 

wow thx ;D

i want to ask something, why i keep ctd while use ver 10 - 9 ??

[Monsto Brukes]

 

here's what I've come up with so far for documenting the xml file.

 

hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml_Doc_v1.pdf

 

The bulk of it at this point is setup recommendations, but my parameter discoveries are towards the end. 

 

Anyone find inertiaAndMassInv for butt- and pre-bones?

 

Think I should add anything else? reply to post this with your info and try to I'll add it as needed.

 

wow thx ;D

i want to ask something, why i keep ctd while use ver 10 - 9 ??

 

 

I couldn't tell you. Need more info. did you follow the 4.Troublshooting section of the OP?

[fenrir19]

 

 

here's what I've come up with so far for documenting the xml file.

 

hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml_Doc_v1.pdf

 

The bulk of it at this point is setup recommendations, but my parameter discoveries are towards the end. 

 

Anyone find inertiaAndMassInv for butt- and pre-bones?

 

Think I should add anything else? reply to post this with your info and try to I'll add it as needed.

 

wow thx ;D

i want to ask something, why i keep ctd while use ver 10 - 9 ??

 

 

I couldn't tell you. Need more info. did you follow the 4.Troublshooting section of the OP?

 

 

what is OP ?  D:

[Monsto Brukes]

Original Post . . . first post of the thread.

[Monsto Brukes]

After some experimenting with some ini setting i manage to find the source of the crashes with we thought was the cause of hdt.

But it isn't.

 

If you have been changing value for these 3 ini settings:

fUpdateBudgetMS=

fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=

fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=

 

and set the settings way too high for your pc to handle that is when you will get far more frequent crashes.

 

my pc is medio core and still have many scripted mods:

fUpdateBudgetMS=1.2

fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=1.2

fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=500.0

 

after toning this down i have no longer been getting any more crashes not even after exiting the game. So if you are crashing try tone down those settings instead of increasing it and cause more problems.

 

I don't have these entries in my ini as I've not changed these settings. Thanks for the info tho.

 

[saschatht]

After playing around with the latest version, it seems very stable for me, and the physics look quite good for the most part. Unfortunately, I'm an ENB user as well, and the jitter fix nearly halves my frame rate. I'm running an Nvidia Titan, and rarely see over 35 FPS now, when I'm normally in the 60+ range.  It's playable, but I can see how it wouldn't be for most people.

 

The other thing I've noticed is that I'm seeing a crushed butt on TBBP animations. I'm using the skeleton hkx that was recommended on the support page for this mod. But I'll take this issue up over there.

 

Everything works fine with release 9-28. Anymation with the file skeleton_female.hkx or without it are shown. When i replace the files (xml and dll) with relaease 10-07 it crashes if i try to load a saved game or if i try to start a new game. The log has this information:

 

hdtPhysicsExtensions

[10/13/13 15:47:27]INFO: Queue OK

[10/13/13 15:47:27]INFO: System run with 8 threads

[10/13/13 15:47:27]INFO: Havok simulated world created.

[10/13/13 15:47:27]INFO: SKSEPlugin_Load

[10/13/13 15:47:29]INFO: Suspending ... Mist Menu

 

What could be the issue?

 

Thanks!

[jacques00]

I have been following the progression of this mod and trying to contribute some information to help troubleshoot if need be. I often times learn fixes through trial and error and never really look at logs, so I am unsure if this was ever highlighted in the logs--however, through my trial and error I found one very awkward bug. Keep in mind This bug was experienced with a combination of three particular mods: Ultimate Follower Overhaul (UFO), My Home is Your Home (MHiYH), Build Your Own Home (BYOH), and of course, the HDT Physics plugin (v09-28).

 

Extremely awkward bug:

Using UFO, my character accumulated a number of followers, vanilla and custom, to follow her. Eventually, she built the house provided by the BYOH mod and decided to release the followers and let them temporarily live in the home using MHiYH. After numerous updates with the HDT Physics plugin, I had never ran into any issues with all these mods running simultaneously... until now.

 

I am unsure what triggered it, but ever since I updated Estrus Chaurus to it's latest version (v3.0), and having to make sure all the prerequisites and other mods reliant on those prerequisites were all up to date and working, namely FNIS 4.0, an anomaly occurred. Whenever my character entered the Woodland Home from BYOH, the cell would load, and the she was able to move for about a second before the game would slow down dramatically and CTD. I figured it had to be the sex mods, so I uninstalled them to test and the problem still persisted. I ended up stripping a lot of my mods down to a bare minimum, and the crash still persisted when she entered the house.

 

When I figured the problem might be the house, I removed the house and all the followers who lived there went back to their original spawn points. Of course, the bug was all-in-all avoided, not fixed (not to mention all the loot I placed in my house was gone too). So I didn't want that. Leaving the house back in and toggling the follower mods still did not fix the issue. Then I started lacing together common threads... Every time my character entered the house, I would hear the indoor workbench being used (for some reason, Mjoll the Lioness was using it), and I always had the HDT v09-28 plug-in active. I decided to upgrade to v10-06 and the problem continued to happen (again Mjoll on the workbench, but this time HDT would save it's own save file after the crash--not sure if this was intentional). I ended up removing HDT entirely and the problem still happened (argh!). I even toggled MHiYH mod off so all the followers would return to their real home and leave the house empty (unfortunately Mjoll was the only one who didn't leave). From there, I just saved a new file to test with most of the followers gone from the house. I then decided to insert the old HDT plugin, v07-22, and preceded to have my character enter the house once more expecting the same. No crash. Seriously. (Mjoll then finished her thing, greeted my character, and proceeded to leave the house.)

 

So after figuring out that rolling back the HDT plugin fixes this bug, I assume it has something to do with NPCs using workbenches (and possibly other devices) during cell load (internal cells for now is my assumption--so inside houses, or inside custom houses). I proceeded to enable each mod again to confirm and my conclusion became further solid. NPCs using the latest HDT plugin while working in between cell loads (particularly with Autosave On--haven't tested with Autosave Off), will crash the game. (Or it's just the plugin totally trolling Mjoll every time she decides to use an indoor workbench.) I have yet to test if I reinsert the newer HDT plugins, but I may do that later when I actually have time to fiddle with bug testing again.

 

Again, this is a super awkward bug, I am unsure if it will be a common issue, I just thought I would point it out in case a portion of the plugin needed fixing. Hope it helps!

Okay, did some further testing and it seems like I have some kind of CTD bug in relation to HDT plug-in and the BYOH mod. Without the HDT, entering the Woodland Home would crash the game. With HDT v07-22 and an early version of v09-28, the game does not crash upon entering. With HDT v09-30 (I think it was the latest update of v09-28, to be precise) and later versions, up to the latest (v10-07/08/09/10?), the game crashes upon entering the Woodland Home or even loading a save within the Woodland Home. The NPC on the workbench is not necessary, but it may be an artifact of that or the plug-in itself.

 

Again, I'm not exactly sure what it is, but it seems once HDT was implemented and saved, the Woodland home was forever cursed to have HDT v07-22 or it would crash without it. Loading a save game prior to HDT and reloading the save that had it does not solve the issue unfortunately. I hope to find a fix to this, but it may fix itself in future revisions of the plugin.

[Guest]

 

I gave this mod a go yesterday and it was a pleasure to say the least. Walking up and down Riverwood naked never got old, mesmerising stuff. Combat also worked really well. I'd like to see the effect tamed just a touch, although it's miles better than I was expecting there's still a bit of a 'jelly on a plate' effect going on.

 

I use the standard XPMS skelly and a UNPB TBBP body courtesy of Mr Trouble. Most of my armors are BBP but sadly none have butt weighting. But dat ass wobble when you stop walking, man.....

 

I was taking quite a performance hit, losing 15 fps in places I'd normally get around 35 which is pretty unplayable for me. So reluctantly I uninstalled.

 

This is absolutely first class work though, I'm so impressed with how smoothly it worked for me. 

 

Thanks for the report.

 

Did you have to apply the jitter fix? The mod alone shouldn't affect framerate.

 

Yeah I did, should have mentioned that I was running enb when I tested it. 

 

Hope there's a resolution to the jitter issue in future 'cos for jiggle fans this mod is golden. 

[Monsto Brukes]

Another thing you can try is turning down the 'Timescale' variable in the .xml file. It seems that the more you crank up the spring factor, the faster the jiggle. In the size range (improbably huge) I've been experimenting with, choking it back from the default 1.00000 to around 0.80000 produces a more probable jiggle rate. For me, the acid test is at the forge: the unmodified .xml gives my PC's boobs a nice swing & sway with every hammer blow. Lowering the timescale too much screws up the timing. Your own results will vary, of course.

 

check out the 2nd post of the thread. I added a doc. 

 

If you would, please, give me a little desc of the timescale and where it is in the xml and I will add it to the doc.

[fenrir19]

 

 

Got this working with The Joy of Perspective last night (using the 10-9 vers). Holy crap is it awesome.

 

In first person? How exactly do you do that?

 

EDIT, nevermind, short search of this thread did wonders and got it working with JOP.

 

 

Yep the long and short of it is to edit the nif for the first person model and to add a StringExtraData, with the name being "HDT Havok Path" and the value being the path to the XML file (I used the modern versions, with my own tweaks for extra bouncy) starting with the Data folder (so "Data\whatever\whatever\hdt.xml"). Then just click the root node and change NumExtraData to 1 and reference the ID number of the StringExtraData in the list of extra data (need to hit refresh icon).

 

Just repeating that here for people that see our posts and want to know the TLDR of how to do it.

 

 

need help here. it doesn't works for me

 

[Monsto Brukes]

 

 

Got this working with The Joy of Perspective last night (using the 10-9 vers). Holy crap is it awesome.

 

In first person? How exactly do you do that?

 

EDIT, nevermind, short search of this thread did wonders and got it working with JOP.

 

 

Yep the long and short of it is to edit the nif for the first person model and to add a StringExtraData, with the name being "HDT Havok Path" and the value being the path to the XML file (I used the modern versions, with my own tweaks for extra bouncy) starting with the Data folder (so "Data\whatever\whatever\hdt.xml"). Then just click the root node and change NumExtraData to 1 and reference the ID number of the StringExtraData in the list of extra data (need to hit refresh icon).

 

Just repeating that here for people that see our posts and want to know the TLDR of how to do it.

 

 

If you would, please, take a few minutes and be specific with the instructions for making Joy of Perspective work, and I'll add it to the 2nd post in the thread.

[corwin]

 

Another thing you can try is turning down the 'Timescale' variable in the .xml file. It seems that the more you crank up the spring factor, the faster the jiggle. In the size range (improbably huge) I've been experimenting with, choking it back from the default 1.00000 to around 0.80000 produces a more probable jiggle rate. For me, the acid test is at the forge: the unmodified .xml gives my PC's boobs a nice swing & sway with every hammer blow. Lowering the timescale too much screws up the timing. Your own results will vary, of course.

 

check out the 2nd post of the thread. I added a doc. 

 

If you would, please, give me a little desc of the timescale and where it is in the xml and I will add it to the doc.

 

 

Sorry, I was quoting from memory. The variable is called "TimeFactor" and it can be found in the relevant sections: "NPC R PreBreast," "NPC R Breast," etc. I doubt if changing the time factor would cure the sort of wild jittering we experienced before various other cures were found, but it may be worth a try if those remedies fail. It's also worth a try for fine-tuning.

 

Some other variables, e.g. "GravityFactor," don't seem to have any effect at all. As for the 4 variables under "inertiaAndMassInv," increasing them seems to deaden the action. The last of the 4 can be reduced below 1, at least on the body & skeleton I'm using, but setting it to zero makes my PC's boobs taper off to some vanishing point below the floor...

 

To anyone else who's experimenting with this mod: XML Notepad is a pretty useful tool. After firing it up, I click on "Expand All" (in the View menu), and then "Find" (in the Edit menu) to zoom in on whatever section/subsection/variable I want to play around with. I just wish searching on "Vertical Bounce" would produce a hit...

[Monsto Brukes]

 

 

 

 

 

Another thing you can try is turning down the 'Timescale' variable in the .xml file. It seems that the more you crank up the spring factor, the faster the jiggle. In the size range (improbably huge) I've been experimenting with, choking it back from the default 1.00000 to around 0.80000 produces a more probable jiggle rate. For me, the acid test is at the forge: the unmodified .xml gives my PC's boobs a nice swing & sway with every hammer blow. Lowering the timescale too much screws up the timing. Your own results will vary, of course.

 

check out the 2nd post of the thread. I added a doc. 

 

If you would, please, give me a little desc of the timescale and where it is in the xml and I will add it to the doc.

 

 

Sorry, I was quoting from memory. The variable is called "TimeFactor" and it can be found in the relevant sections: "NPC R PreBreast," "NPC R Breast," etc. I doubt if changing the time factor would cure the sort of wild jittering we experienced before various other cures were found, but it may be worth a try if those remedies fail. It's also worth a try for fine-tuning.

 

Some other variables, e.g. "GravityFactor," don't seem to have any effect at all. As for the 4 variables under "inertiaAndMassInv," increasing them seems to deaden the action. The last of the 4 can be reduced below 1, at least on the body & skeleton I'm using, but setting it to zero makes my PC's boobs taper off to some vanishing point below the floor...

 

To anyone else who's experimenting with this mod: XML Notepad is a pretty useful tool. After firing it up, I click on "Expand All" (in the View menu), and then "Find" (in the Edit menu) to zoom in on whatever section/subsection/variable I want to play around with. I just wish searching on "Vertical Bounce" would produce a hit...

 

 

 

 

Some other variables, e.g. "GravityFactor," don't seem to have any effect at all.

 

from my own list of values:

<snip>
 
gravityFactor influences the overall heavyness of the simulated object. Changing this value will affect the felt weight and movement of the object.
 
This value has a definite effect on gravity. If it doesnt then your TBBP setup/hkx/etc is probably borked

 

 

 

 

 

Take a look at post 2 of this thread. If you have additions, I'm all ears.

 

Or eyes.

 

[corwin]

Found a set of toys just upstream of TimeFactor! LinearDamping and AngularDamping can be assigned negative values. Even -1 is instantly obvious, -20 downright ludicrous. Reducing the TimeFactor slows the bounce & wobble, but there is a limit (at least with my hardware & the body mod I'm using): setting it to 0.4 gives a convincing imitation of the dreaded 'jitter' effect. The 0.7 - 0.8 range works for me.

 

I'm sure the 'Butt' section can be twiddled in the same manner, but the defaul values suit me fine so I leave it alone. Huge butt enthusiasts can have all kinds of fun with this...

 

[ EDIT ]: Further experimenting suggests that ( a ) inertiaAndMassInv will also want tweaking; ( b ) it's quite easy to replicate the über jiggle of 7-22; and ( c ) as far as I can tell, negative values for LinearDamping and AngularDamping mean they won't ever settle down, much like 7-22. This may or may not be a disadvantage, depending on your taste in jiggle and/or realism.

[kharlynak]

 

 

 

Got this working with The Joy of Perspective last night (using the 10-9 vers). Holy crap is it awesome.

 

In first person? How exactly do you do that?

 

EDIT, nevermind, short search of this thread did wonders and got it working with JOP.

 

 

Yep the long and short of it is to edit the nif for the first person model and to add a StringExtraData, with the name being "HDT Havok Path" and the value being the path to the XML file (I used the modern versions, with my own tweaks for extra bouncy) starting with the Data folder (so "Data\whatever\whatever\hdt.xml"). Then just click the root node and change NumExtraData to 1 and reference the ID number of the StringExtraData in the list of extra data (need to hit refresh icon).

 

Just repeating that here for people that see our posts and want to know the TLDR of how to do it.

 

 

If you would, please, take a few minutes and be specific with the instructions for making Joy of Perspective work, and I'll add it to the 2nd post in the thread.

 

 

 

Sure, so basically:

 

1) Get and install The Joy of Perspective.

 

2) Go to this link and install this skeleton: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/20027-xpms-modified-for-tbbp-fixes-breasts-too-high-crushed-butt/page-2?do=findComment&comment=482300 (I downloaded the zip then manually added it to NMM and enabled it like normal).

 

3) Go to this link and follow the directions for the body and any armor meshes (the first person versions) you want to enable: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/19451-hdt-support-unofficial-current-release-v9-28-body-physics-minor-release-v10-9-wip-hair-effects/page-10?do=findComment&comment=516746

 

On step 3, make sure you increment the NiNode's ExtraData count, and reference the ID of your StringExtraData in it. It should result in NiNode again being the only thing in the list, with StringExtraData under it (when you expand it). I can make a video later, as it's very simple.

 

Oh yeah, and you can and should use the XML that comes with the latest version as the hdtCBBE.xml mentioned in the steps there (you can name it whatever you want, just make sure that it's named correctly in the path in your StringExtraData).

 

That's really all there is to it.

 

If someone knows how to add a StringExtraData with these parameters and put it into the root node's ExtraData using the automation tools for NifScope, please let me know, as I'd be happy to set up an easy to use solution that auto-installs the HDT functionality on first person meshes.

[jacques00]

Using the v10-09, I get this in the hdtPhysicsExtensions.log:

 

 

 

hdtPhysicsExtensions
[10/14/13 16:44:05]INFO: Queue OK
[10/14/13 16:44:05]INFO: System run with 12 threads
[10/14/13 16:44:05]INFO: Havok simulated world created.
[10/14/13 16:44:05]INFO: SKSEPlugin_Load
[10/14/13 16:44:27]INFO: Suspending ... Mist Menu
[10/14/13 16:44:47]INFO: Resuming... Fader Menu
[10/14/13 16:44:47]INFO: Suspending ... Loading Menu
[10/14/13 16:45:06]INFO: Resuming... Fader Menu
[10/14/13 16:45:06]INFO: Cell changed...
[10/14/13 16:45:06]INFO: Add character 00000014
[10/14/13 16:45:08]WARNING: Physics delta time > 0.2, lose time
[10/14/13 16:45:09]WARNING: Physics delta time > 0.2, lose time
[10/14/13 16:45:20]INFO: Suspending ... Fader Menu
[10/14/13 16:45:20]INFO: Resuming... Fader Menu
[10/14/13 16:45:20]INFO: Suspending ... Loading Menu
[10/14/13 16:45:27]ERROR: Fatal error occured
[10/14/13 16:45:27]ERROR: Code : 0xc0000005
[10/14/13 16:45:27]ERROR: Flag : 0x00000000
[10/14/13 16:45:27]ERROR: Module :
[10/14/13 16:45:27]ERROR: Address : 0x0046ecf5
[10/14/13 16:45:27]ERROR: Module Address : 0x0046e000
[10/14/13 16:45:27]ERROR: ExceptionContent saved in hdtPhysicsExtensions.dump
[10/14/13 16:45:27]ERROR: Plugin is trying to save game

 

 

 

Not sure what it means specifically, but it's in relation to the Build Your Own Home glitch I've been having. This is after entering the Woodland Home right after the cell loads up, with or without NPCs.

 

[Guest Canto]

Could anyone re-up the 10-09 somewhere? Can't reach that baidu page at the moment it seems :/

Thanks!

[majordespair]

this is impressive stuff, only checked out main install so far, goes great with tbbp, I am seeing stretching of boobs on companions wearting tbbp bodies and armour when zoning though, for like split second after loading then it settles. Duno if its a bug your are aware of or just a quirk of the mechanics but thought id mention it.

[BogBrush82]

How pronounced is the boob jiggle?  I'm not really a fan of excess jiggle A.K.A the Dead or Alive series, but a small realistic jiggle I could put up with.

 

I'm interested in those hair effects more than anything.

[corwin]

Using the v10-09, I get this in the hdtPhysicsExtensions.log:

 

 

Not sure what it means specifically, but it's in relation to the Build Your Own Home glitch I've been having. This is after entering the Woodland Home right after the cell loads up, with or without NPCs.

 

I dropped B.Y.0.H. after I discovered the Underground Bath House (I'm a sucker for built-in comforts  ), so I can only report a single instance. After entering the UBH, I found "Working Girl" (the Dunmer character who hangs around the basement utility area) happily hammering away at a work table. No glitch, no freeze, no nothin'. For what it's worth, my non-result suggests that the problem isn't directly related to HDT Physics.

 

I'm guessing you can enter Whiterun & find Adrianna busy at the workbench without CTDs or freezes. Yah? Nah?

[Monsto Brukes]

 

 

 

 

Got this working with The Joy of Perspective last night (using the 10-9 vers). Holy crap is it awesome.

 

In first person? How exactly do you do that?

 

EDIT, nevermind, short search of this thread did wonders and got it working with JOP.

 

 

Yep the long and short of it is to edit the nif for the first person model and to add a StringExtraData, with the name being "HDT Havok Path" and the value being the path to the XML file (I used the modern versions, with my own tweaks for extra bouncy) starting with the Data folder (so "Data\whatever\whatever\hdt.xml"). Then just click the root node and change NumExtraData to 1 and reference the ID number of the StringExtraData in the list of extra data (need to hit refresh icon).

 

Just repeating that here for people that see our posts and want to know the TLDR of how to do it.

 

 

If you would, please, take a few minutes and be specific with the instructions for making Joy of Perspective work, and I'll add it to the 2nd post in the thread.

 

 

 

Sure, so basically:

 

1) Get and install The Joy of Perspective.

 

2) Go to this link and install this skeleton: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/20027-xpms-modified-for-tbbp-fixes-breasts-too-high-crushed-butt/page-2?do=findComment&comment=482300 (I downloaded the zip then manually added it to NMM and enabled it like normal).

 

3) Go to this link and follow the directions for the body and any armor meshes (the first person versions) you want to enable: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/19451-hdt-support-unofficial-current-release-v9-28-body-physics-minor-release-v10-9-wip-hair-effects/page-10?do=findComment&comment=516746

 

On step 3, make sure you increment the NiNode's ExtraData count, and reference the ID of your StringExtraData in it. It should result in NiNode again being the only thing in the list, with StringExtraData under it (when you expand it). I can make a video later, as it's very simple.

 

Oh yeah, and you can and should use the XML that comes with the latest version as the hdtCBBE.xml mentioned in the steps there (you can name it whatever you want, just make sure that it's named correctly in the path in your StringExtraData).

 

That's really all there is to it.

 

If someone knows how to add a StringExtraData with these parameters and put it into the root node's ExtraData using the automation tools for NifScope, please let me know, as I'd be happy to set up an easy to use solution that auto-installs the HDT functionality on first person meshes.

 

 

I'll add your instructiions to the 2nd post. thanks!

 

Are you offering to make an app or something? or just script up nifskope?

[Guest Jenova23]

I'm using this free online program to open the xml http://xmlgrid.net/ but I have no idea where the number is for bounce that tutorial confuses me can't you just make a step by step tutorial for us noobs or just upload a super bouncy version please. I think I found it is this is?