(3DS MAX) Armor Modifier Questions

[kumax2]

Hello!

 

 it's me, once again, with more noob level modeling questions

 

1. is there an "optimal" modifier order? i mean, usually i go

-BSdismember

-skin

-smooth

 

but i've this one armor project, that really tests my patience, that somehow the order morphs the polygon, twisting some vertices unless (skin) is at the top of the order

 

2. also, apparently i dont get what "lightningshaderproperty" does in nifskope (i thought it was about the colors and the textures, et al) when copying from the original armor to the new edit, cause in (once again) that armor, when copying it, it magically restores a vertex i melted in 3dsmax

 

3. how do i edit the BSdismember? is there a way to edit the existing one or should i just delete it and create a new one? once again, in that armor, when exporting, it crashes due to the weird "original" BSdismember missing an element i removed, so i decided to create a new BSdismember, selecting the whole object, and it works as in, it lets me export it and create the nif, but the armor just CTDs in skyrim, so i'm not sure if it's the new dismember modifier that's wrong or if it's something else

 

4. can i remove "barely weighted" bones? (blue tinted zones), this is a problem with a different armor, i'm trying to mod savior's hide, just a clean "tbbp support" without any edits, so far i've been able to do those without problem in several other tests, but savior's hide for some unknown reason "gets" zones in the crotch painted with "calf" bone weights, and it just doesn't happen in longer "skirts" like the farmer's clothes, so i think that's why the armor keeps CTD in skyrim but exporting normally in 3dsmax.

 

 

i appreciate your help

 

thanks

[DoctaSax]

Moving this to tech support, where I hope you'll find the answers you're looking for.

[b3lisario]

1. I use that order

2. ?

3. I usually delete and redo it again. You can export without BSdismember modifier just to make sure it's not the ctd cause. It seems the game does not need it if you are in the extreme of the weight slider.

4. You can set the weight value to 0 to any vertex. In skin modifier, edit envelopes, "select vertices" option (select the blue ones with the mouse), "abs. effect" box, type in "0". Keep in mind that the values you set to 0 will be transfered to another bone, hopefully the one you want.

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

I do Smooth, Skin Wrap, Skin, (remove skin wrap), BSDismember - the way it is done in the early import/export Nightasy tutorials (number 6 or 7?).

 

I have noticed that 3dsMax will crash when trying to export if a Smooth is not also applied to the body mesh. As B3lisario says, I usually remove all the modifiers from the armour (not the body), and do fresh ones in Max.

 

With reference to (2), yes BSlightingshaderproperty governs which textures the mesh will try to access. B3lisario gave me the very helpful tip that this value/branch can simply be copied & pasted from the original mesh for Vanilla/DLC edits.

 

You do need to remove the BSlightingshaderproperties which Max exports, and replace it with the correct one from the original mesh you have used elements from, and when you copy the branch across you will need to add it to the mesh as a Property (click on the NiTriShape you deleted the shader from, scroll down, click in the column next to Property Link 1 or 2, and type the number corresponding to the shader branch you just pasted across from the original mesh). This process is also covered in Nightasy's tutorials.

 

What B3lisario describes re: envelopes is indeed correct. If you need a visual, this is also covered by Nightasy in tutorial 12.

 

Skirts I am finding to be a real pain. Max does not seem to weight things to skirt bones, as they are in the Vanilla meshes, which is extremely frustrating. Instead, they will be weighted to leg bones, etc. This is what causes the weird stretching and clipping effects around the legs with many armours in Exeter's packs, in mine so far, etc., but it shouldn't be what is crashing your game. Using the wrong skeleton might though.

[kumax2]

thank you for your answers guys

 

yeah, i've been playing with the weight slider set to 0, since it's a failsafe way to test people's mods, specially asian mods that sometime lack slider support or i end up with those funky gaps in the wrists-ankles (i knew how to fix that back in oblivion with blender, but since i've been stuck figuring max i just decided to skip that)

 

regarding my second question i'll try posting some screenshots later, it's a very weird thing, i think it's a bug or something, but i decied to scratch that and start fresh, usually when a conversion goes wrong i just redo the whole thing, i dont have the expertise to try and detect the specific error specially when the steps i take work with other armors

 

i'll try the bone weight thing, but, just curious, what happens when a bone has no weight? won't the game CTD?

[kumax2]

here, this is the weird "thing" i get when copying the lightningshader property from the original armor vs my edit

 

as you can see i don't know why when copying i get that weird "edge" that very very slightly changes the mesh

 

i mean, it's barely noticeable ingame, what i'm trying to understand is why that happens, when all i'm copying is related to lightning-textures (or so i used to believe)

 

 

[b3lisario]

Try to copy 1st the lightningshader and then the alphaproperty

[kumax2]

Try to copy 1st the lightningshader and then the alphaproperty

 

woah you are right, that fixes that

 

so the order matters when copying the original attributes.. well that clears one of the mysteries, thank you