Notice: summer cleaning

[Ark of Truth]

Well I'll finishing collecting the requests/complaints and then send you guys them all tomorrow. Just don't shoot the messenger!

[Zadil]

Hi there. Although I'm fairly new here I'd like to use this opportunity to express my interest in DrGrimReaper's suggestion for a dedicated request subforum - in my case from the perspective of an aspiring 3d content creator.
I'm not quite sure yet how many users of this forum also have an interest in creatively contributing to other people's ideas, but having a unified place for suggestions would make it easier for them to get an overview and therefore lead to a higher probability of coming across something that would meet their skills and interests. And who knows, to a lesser extend It might also encourage users who simply need a quick edit or tweak on a model to voice their requests as opposed to having to start a thread in the more general forums for just a minor issue like that.
...but yeah, just putting it out there.

Hopefully it's something that Ashal will consider when/if he finds the time.

[RitualClarity]

Well I'll finishing collecting the requests/complaints and then send you guys them all tomorrow. Just don't shoot the messenger!

 

Ah they won't shoot you Ark,... they will strap you down with 100 pounds of C4 and blow you up!!!

 

[Adam Jensen]

 

Well I'll finishing collecting the requests/complaints and then send you guys them all tomorrow. Just don't shoot the messenger!

 

Ah they won't shoot you Ark,... they will strap you down with 100 pounds of C4 and blow you up!!!

 

 

 

If I had to torture someone, I would probably force them to play a marathon session of Ride to Hell Retribution, Dark and Rogue Warrior !

[RitualClarity]

Try as I might I can't think of a decent way to handle the "please make this or that for me" threads. 

 

The best way "might" be to consolidate them to a single thread but then you'll just see folks bumping the hell out of their request........so it is far from ideal.

Generally those requests will never be fulfilled, so it is kinda pointless not to go ahead and consolidate them.  I am open to your thoughts on the matter.

Exactly. At least if they are somewhere else they won't fill up the regular post of Skyrim, Fallout, Oblivion etc. without people "bump" threads. This would make it cleaner. Those that want to gain some inspiration can easily read those post.

 

I don't wanna automatically shoot down ideas & offers to help. There's a big role to play for other members in keeping an eye on things once we made our first pass, especially when traffic picks up more in the fall. But we do want to do that one ourselves, steadily, which is how we prefer to work, and get better acquainted with this part of the site in the bargain. It's not a fulltime job either, just something we do on the side in addition to other stuff, as moderators, modders, players, people too. An ongoing project. If you have pointers on specific things that need doing and that we're able to do, we'll look at 'em. Just don't expect it all to be done overnight, or for us to make the exact decisions you'd like

How can members help the process. There isn't much we can do but question, guide, etc. Is there any other ways you can think of?

 

 

 

Well I'll finishing collecting the requests/complaints and then send you guys them all tomorrow. Just don't shoot the messenger!

 

Ah they won't shoot you Ark,... they will strap you down with 100 pounds of C4 and blow you up!!!

 

 

 

If I had to torture someone, I would probably force them to play a marathon session of Ride to Hell Retribution, Dark and Rogue Warrior !

 

Great... now I am going to get in trouble for diverging this thread from its rightful path....

[PsychoMachina]

Would it help to make separate categories for each type of inquiries such as Seeking a Mod, What Mod is This, Mod Ideas and have these categories for both the Adult and Non-Adult sections.  The "What Mod is This" thread tends to confuse some new members because it's states that it's used for identifying a mod and it's located in the Adult section.  Some people make new threads looking for a mod or think inquiries for non-adult mods don't belong in the Adult section.

 

 

[BruceWayne]

In case anyone is wondering:

 

Individual WCIF-threads that were created after we pinned the new general WCIF threads get closed. We will not close threads that were created before that, since there was no alternative, but please refrain from resurrecting these older threads. 

 

Atm, this only affects the Skyrim Adult Mod section, but it will eventually be expanded to all the other Skyrim sections as well.

 

With that being said I strongly implore everyone to use these new WCIF threads. It helps keeping the general mod discussion sections tidy and people have less of a chance to miss some of the more interesting WIPs, mod discussions and previews. 

 

Thanks. Happy modding!

[RitualClarity]

Sorry again...WCIF  ? I just want to know so that when I start playing Skyrim agian I don't make a terrible mistake...   I am so sorry I as so many questions on things I am sure others already know and might just be common knowlege. It is better to be safe than sorry.

 

I did a google search and I don't think anyone is talking about a Christian Radio Station in Florida...

[DoctaSax]

 

How can members help the process. There isn't much we can do but question, guide, etc. Is there any other ways you can think of?

 

The main thing is spotting new threads being misplaced once a section is 'clean'. We can't read everything, especially later on in the year. Atm, the Skyrim/adult mods/downloads subsection has been cleaned of anything not related to downloads, so you guys can help keep an eye out there for new threads that don't belong there. Just use the report button. The other skyrim sections will take more time, so let them be until we're through.

The main aspect we're working on is what I mentioned above: mod-related threads under mods, tech under tech, downloads under downloads. And, of course, trying to stem the tide of new request threads. Anything else is not a priority.

[DoctaSax]

Sorry again...WCIF  ? I just want to know so that when I start playing Skyrim agian I don't make a terrible mistake...   I am so sorry I as so many questions on things I am sure others already know and might just be common knowlege. It is better to be safe than sorry.

 

I did a google search and I don't think anyone is talking about a Christian Radio Station in Florida...

 

WCIF = where can I find. We have two new threads like that now.

[RitualClarity]

 

 

How can members help the process. There isn't much we can do but question, guide, etc. Is there any other ways you can think of?

 

The main thing is spotting new threads being misplaced once a section is 'clean'. We can't read everything, especially later on in the year. Atm, the Skyrim/adult mods/downloads subsection has been cleaned of anything not related to downloads, so you guys can help keep an eye out there for new threads that don't belong there. Just use the report button. The other skyrim sections will take more time, so let them be until we're through.

The main aspect we're working on is what I mentioned above: mod-related threads under mods, tech under tech, downloads under downloads. And, of course, trying to stem the tide of new request threads. Anything else is not a priority.

 

Cool. So if I see someone posting something for skyrim in FNV or such just hit the report button that I asume would be the easiest for you guys. Great job so far. Looks good as far as I can tell...

 

 

Sorry again...WCIF  ? I just want to know so that when I start playing Skyrim agian I don't make a terrible mistake...   I am so sorry I as so many questions on things I am sure others already know and might just be common knowlege. It is better to be safe than sorry.

 

I did a google search and I don't think anyone is talking about a Christian Radio Station in Florida...

 

WCIF = where can I find. We have two new threads like that now.

 

I should of figured that one out... D'oh.

[Ark of Truth]

Still think your better of placing the request in a "requests" subforum instead of a thread. One subsection for adult and one for non-adult.

 

That way you can check on the progress of your request which out having to go through every page in the thread to see if someone has answered it. People will most likely get less annoyed and it will stop people from posting about the request more then once.

 

 

Benefits to the requester:

 

• Easier to track your request.
• Easier to review the progress of your request.
• Saves you from having to bump your request to get it seen.

 

 

Benefits to modders:

 

• Makes it easier to find a request you can fulfil.
• Easy to update the requester on the progress of the request.
• Gives you the ability to post the finished request in a thread it will most likely otherwise get lost in.

 

Benefits to site staff:

 

• You most likely won't have to ever do the 750+ posts and replace on them, there for creating less threads in the long run and less server space being taken up.

[Monsto Brukes]

Everything is solved by utilizing the tag system more.

 

Categorized forums are so 1997. Today, processing power is a minor consideration for a forum this size, so if you . . .

 

1) make sure current posts are tagged properly (3 tags at most should do it, imo)

2) add some static text to the new post page to the effect of "use tags liberally"

3) make tag search more accessible to the masses. (yes it's accessible right now, but a single field on the main template page "tag search, space delimited" would make it much simpler for the average viewer.)

 

then the categories can quite literally take a back seat.

 

Requests? simple: on the post, the user selectes the forum (skyrim) then adds the tag "request" and oh say just for the sake of argument "blowjob"

 

Then... when a user comes around thinking "hey I wonder if there's any new blowjob mods?" and they tag search blowjobs, head, dome, skyrim, oblivion

 

viola! (intentional misspelling is intentional)

 

Long term it's much more manageable. No more moving posts, no more differences of opinion about the focus of a thread. . . request forum? Oblivion forum? irrelevant... a guy want's a blowjob mod for oblivion. so he puts it in the game forum (oblivion), tag it requests, blowjobs and whatever elese is relevant to the content. Done.

 

Educating users is the entire battle. 

 

Just a thought.

[Adam Jensen]

Everything is solved by utilizing the tag system more.

 

Categorized forums are so 1997. Today, processing power is a minor consideration for a forum this size, so if you . . .

 

1) make sure current posts are tagged properly (3 tags at most should do it, imo)

2) add some static text to the new post page to the effect of "use tags liberally"

3) make tag search more accessible to the masses. (yes it's accessible right now, but a single field on the main template page "tag search, space delimited" would make it much simpler for the average viewer.)

 

then the categories can quite literally take a back seat.

 

Requests? simple: on the post, the user selectes the forum (skyrim) then adds the tag "request" and oh say just for the sake of argument "blowjob"

 

Then... when a user comes around thinking "hey I wonder if there's any new blowjob mods?" and they tag search blowjobs, head, dome, skyrim, oblivion

 

viola! (intentional misspelling is intentional)

 

Long term it's much more manageable. No more moving posts, no more differences of opinion about the focus of a thread. . . request forum? Oblivion forum? irrelevant... a guy want's a blowjob mod for oblivion. so he puts it in the game forum (oblivion), tag it requests, blowjobs and whatever elese is relevant to the content. Done.

 

Educating users is the entire battle. 

 

Just a thought.

 

I'll be that one guy and point out how just about no one here uses the tag system, except for moddders. Also I'm with Ark, call me an old fart, but I think a categorized forum is still the better option.

[RitualClarity]

Yea I agree with the categorized forum. The reason isn't because I think it is a better running system... That isn't the case. Also note because it is a better solution.. That isn't necessarily the case. The info that monsto gives is great indeed. It will likely work well if we didn't have some of our members that come here. ... Members like

 

 

My game crashes... what is the problem?  

 

or my favorite

 

U brke my gme.. hlp me fx it.

 

No information, load orders, or even a clue on what the issues are or what was done. You need Madam Cleo to help you figure out what is needed.

If these members that don't follow the suggestions on how to post and what to do .. basically read. How are we going to get them to use the tag system properly?

[Monsto Brukes]

 

... I'll be that one guy and point out how just about no one here uses the tag system, except for moddders. . .

 

 

right exactly. i'm just sayin that by 1) having it more accessible and 2) having a little user education, the work by staff would be minimized.

 

It's the difference between moving threads around between separate forums generating a host of downline effects (including potentially sidetracking threads with posting suggestions on where it should have been posted) and editing an OP to simply add new tags.

 

From a user standpoint, I mostly just surf the skyrim adult. When i have the time or can be bothered, I'll look at a couple of the other forums. A tag filtered list of threads (sorted by date desc) would mean that i'd wind up surfing more of those other topics. Users would be more likely to spread their wings.

[Monsto Brukes]

And another thing . . . as a poster/user, being able to choose several different tags for a single post, and having something like a current thread in skyrim adult "where can i get these mods?" . . . that'd be a great candidate for Skyrim General, Skyrim Adult, Tech Support and What Mod Is This tags.

 

Where does it go? Tag it well and it really doesn't matter... AND there's more eyes on it, including those of peopl that might be able to help but don't necc frequent Skyrim Adult.

[Adam Jensen]

 

 

... I'll be that one guy and point out how just about no one here uses the tag system, except for moddders. . .

 

 

right exactly. i'm just sayin that by 1) having it more accessible and 2) having a little user education, the work by staff would be minimized.

 

It's the difference between moving threads around between separate forums generating a host of downline effects (including potentially sidetracking threads with posting suggestions on where it should have been posted) and editing an OP to simply add new tags.

 

From a user standpoint, I mostly just surf the skyrim adult. When i have the time or can be bothered, I'll look at a couple of the other forums. A tag filtered list of threads (sorted by date desc) would mean that i'd wind up surfing more of those other topics. Users would be more likely to spread their wings.

 

 

We are having trouble teaching them to use the right thread, so in all honesty I doubt we would be able to teach them how to use a new system.

[DoctaSax]

A few points: it's well established by now that moderators can't create subsections (or a better tag search system for that matter). We brought subsections for requests up with Ashal a week ago and he wasn't very enthusiastic about it. And I can see why - this isn't about passing the buck.

If you do it for requests people will ask for subsections for WCIF/Mod ideas/What mod is this/whatever else; if you do it for skyrim, people will ask the same for the other games etc. In the end you end up with a bunch of extra links cluttering up the main forum page and the different main section pages, and I'm not convinced new subsections are such a great solution in & of themselves to begin with:
 

Benefits to the requester:

• Easier to track your request.
• Easier to review the progress of your request.
• Saves you from having to bump your request to get it seen.

 
If you request people to do something for you, keeping an eye on the thread in which you made that request shouldn't be too much to ask. We recommend people turn notification on for when a post of theirs gets quoted in their profile settings too.

Individual threads breeding like rabbits in a request subsection will most likely get bumped as much as individual posts in the one thread, especially when they get pushed beyond the first page. Excessive bumping is a behavioral issue rather than a site-structural one; it has to do with accepting that you're not always gonna get what you want or as fast as you want it. A subsection won't change that.
 

Benefits to modders:

• Makes it easier to find a request you can fulfil.
• Easy to update the requester on the progress of the request.
• Gives you the ability to post the finished request in a thread it will most likely otherwise get lost in.

 

We like that some people actually take requests, we really do. But is it really that much harder to find new requests in just the one thread than in different ones in a particular sub-section? If you click on the icon to the left of the thread title, it'll always take you to the last post in it that you read, so you can take it from there. Don't know why the people who take requests should feel the need to update others on the progress of the mod either. It's done when it's done, isn't it.

The absolute best place to post a finished request would obviously be in a download page in the files section. That way more people get to see it than if it's just buried in either the WCIF thread or an individual thread somewhere down a request subsection. Related requests/previews/updates etc can then be handled in the support topic for it, which is automatically created in the right place for it. Seriously, those of you who take requests, don't hide the work you do somewhere down a thread, consolidated or not, but create a download page. Wading through old request threads, I've run into great stuff that deserves much better treatment than being buried in some post in some thread. It's a waste.
 

Benefits to site staff:

• You most likely won't have to ever do the 750+ posts and replace on them, there for creating less threads in the long run and less server space being taken up.

 

I don't see how having brand new threads per request is equal to creating fewer threads in the long run. Adding extra sub-sections to keep tabs on, and more categories to enforce when some users can't see the difference between the few categories we already have (just tech support and downloads), is not easier on site staff. The more sections, the more clicking even to just quickly glance at things. Thanks for your concern though.

 

Let's face it: any additional rules we create about what goes where will get broken, and people will always have requests. The 80 pages of threads in both of skyrim's mods sections are proof enough: at least 2/3 requests, and a bunch of the rest better off under downloads or tech support. So it becomes less about finding the perfect solution - requiring equally perfect site members - and more about finding one that at least somewhat stops this wildfire from spreading as fast as it used to, and is easy to enforce.

The consolidated thread solution may not be perfect, but the other suggestions have their drawbacks too. In contrast with those, the consolidated threads were something Bruce & I were actually able to start rightaway, no matter how things play out in the long run. None of it is set in stone, but we weren't gonna wait for site upgrades before doing something about the inflow of request threads that would be happening every day while we talk about it. There'd be very little point in cleaning up what there already is if we didn't try to prevent new dirt piling on while we're at it.

 

(Until something else comes along that's better, we'd also appreciate it if thoughts about the merits and drawbacks of what we're doing and how are confined to this place alone.)

[Monsto Brukes]

It is hopefully getting the message across to folks to use the existing threads instead of creating hundreds upon hundreds of threads that bury everything else.

 

 

This was a post from a request thread that was locked. Thought I'd reply here.

 

Did a little digging back about 5 pages. Of the requests threads that were locked, there was only one of them where the OP had more than 5 posts. Most had 3, a couple had 1.

 

The message to use the existing threads will not be made to new users. They're not regulars, they're unfamiliar with the extended rules. Personally, I don't think it's ridiculous, as a new user, to believe that "don't be a dick" is a universal forum rule. So a user comes in with a sole purpose, they take a self inventory "No, i'm not a dick," they look at the forum list "oh my skyrim question goes here" and then they post. 

 

Meanwhile, I've noticed traffic is down a bit in the skyrim forum. Used to fill significantly more than a screen page a day with unread posts. Now it's less about a screen page. (except on the w'end). I obviously can't say it's a direct cause, but the carcasses of several locked threads per day can't be helping it.

 

Lastly, an analogy. Things we all know: Everything we have came from the ground. You don't see light until it hits something. 2 Things that everyone knows but nobody really thinks about.

 

Here's another one except relevant: New users aren't a block of people that all get together and act with a single purpose. It's just a bunch of random individuals that play skyrim and want to see some pixellated boobies . . . and then their first post is locked.

 

If the purpose of the summer cleaning was to reduce mod work, I'll have to say that from my POV I don't think it's working. I now know another couple mod names from the locked threads alone... it seems you're working harder.

[gregathit]

 

It is hopefully getting the message across to folks to use the existing threads instead of creating hundreds upon hundreds of threads that bury everything else.

 

This was a post from a request thread that was locked. Thought I'd reply here.

 

Did a little digging back about 5 pages. Of the requests threads that were locked, there was only one of them where the OP had more than 5 posts. Most had 3, a couple had 1.

 

And your point is?  All I can see is either we (the moderators) are fast in shutting them down, or no one is responding anyway.

 

 

 

The message to use the existing threads will not be made to new users. They're not regulars, they're unfamiliar with the extended rules. Personally, I don't think it's ridiculous, as a new user, to believe that "don't be a dick" is a universal forum rule. So a user comes in with a sole purpose, they take a self inventory "No, i'm not a dick," they look at the forum list "oh my skyrim question goes here" and then they post.

Face it, about 2 to 4 percent of folks even bother to read the rules. I have deleted more signatures due to being gifs or too large, than all the locked threads put together.  And that is just one of the handful of rules.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, I've noticed traffic is down a bit in the skyrim forum. Used to fill significantly more than a screen page a day with unread posts. Now it's less about a screen page. (except on the w'end). I obviously can't say it's a direct cause, but the carcasses of several locked threads per day can't be helping it.

 

 

Don't you think the fact that it is getting close to the end of summer and start of school has more to do with it than us locking a couple of threads? Come on.......  

 

 

Here's another one except relevant: New users aren't a block of people that all get together and act with a single purpose. It's just a bunch of random individuals that play skyrim and want to see some pixellated boobies . . . and then their first post is locked.

If a locked thread sours them from the site, then they weren't going to be here long anyway, so who really cares? Especially in light of 90 percent of requests never getting fulfilled.  Perhaps the locked thread is just easing them into the disappointment of their request not being filled.  

 

This whole bit is a waste of everyone's time to even discuss to be perfectly blunt.  There just isn't a good answer that will make everyone happy.

 

 

[BruceWayne]

The fact of the matter is, you can go to any random page in this section and you'll find about 75% request threads that go as follows:

 

 

OP: Can someone make me xy?

 

1. response: Awesome, me want too!

 

2. response: There is already a mod like this out there: ..... OR  OP again: So someone already made this?

 

 

 

At this point the thread is dead and and takes up precious internets.

 

My point is, chances are something like the request already exists or it will never be made because of a solitary request thread. Modders who are taking requests have their own threads, which would be an even better place to place this kind of inquiry. 

 

As for your traffic concerns, the WMIT/WCIF are the most frequented threads on this entire Board. The WMIT/adult thread is in fifth incarnation and close to becoming no. 6. It has reached as of right now ~225k clicks and over 1.7k responses in little over a month(!). If it weren't summer in the northern hemisphere, this number would probably be considerably higher. Since the WCIF threads are new they don't have the same traffic yet, but they are getting there.

 

If there are places where people might have the slightest chance of getting their requests seen and eventually fulfilled, it's in one of those threads.

 

 

[Monsto Brukes]

Hey man... Just trying to help by giving a little perspective.

[MonaBabii]

I find myself guilty of being one of those people cluttering the boards >_> It was only one, but still, my bad guys. The problem I personally had is that I was, in a nutshell:

 

-Searched for a "board" specific for requests, and didn't find any.

-Went specifically into the "board" that was -not- the downloads section, and searched ( more like skimmed really D: ) and my brain failed to link "Where can I find?" to "I'm requesting" lol.

-It seemed like a natural thing to use the -non-downloads- forum to post requests, so long I labeled Request in the title so people wouldn't get in there assuming it was some form of download by itself.

 

All of that said... it's probably just me, but I often have issues using the search functionality here at LL. Like 99% of the time I'll try to look for something, usually dozens of results show up, and I search slowly and painfully through all of them only to realize what I was searched for is in none of those posts.

 

Not entirely sure where I'm going with this post honestly  just a long-winded apology I guess!

Someone up there mentioned people doing exactly what I did and I'm pretty sure I'm one of those people mentioned, as my post count is well above 5 xD so I felt the need to explain myself 

[RitualClarity]

 

All of that said... it's probably just me, but I often have issues using the search functionality here at LL. Like 99% of the time I'll try to look for something, usually dozens of results show up, and I search slowly and painfully through all of them only to realize what I was searched for is in none of those posts.

I have issue as well... Many times I just use Google and a Lover's link will pop up if it is here. I then don't have to search through many threads to find what I am looking for. The great data collector that is Google does it for me. Other times I find other forums like Nexus that might have what I am looking for instead. If I can't find it I usually move on because I can't create it myself and chances of others doing so is slim.

 

On a separate note I sometimes find nice mods and links that I haven't even though of that can enhance my game play here by looking through the where can I find it  (WCIF) thread.