Run Steam Modded Games as Admin?

[KoolHndLuke]

Recently ran one of my games that I'd been having a few problems with in admin and that cleared things up. I've read in other threads where this really shouldn't be necessary and obviously is a security risk. But if it's the OS denying permissions for the app/program, then how do I edit that so I don't have to give them root access?

 

Also, Could my AV interfere with a lot of mods as well? Think mine prompts me to ask if I want to let something through or not. But would I always get a notification if it's blocking something? And should I always let a mod be allowed just because someone tells me that it's to be expected and that it's a false positive?

 

 

 

 

[aurreth]

You need to install Steam, and therefore its games, in a non-system directory.

 

Steam, by default, installs itself in C:\Program Files.  This is fine for most users.  They aren't writing to a protected directory, just to the Steam user directory in %AppData%.  However, when you start modding you are writing changes to Program Files, a protected directory, and Windows won't allow that.

 

The solution is to create your own directory for games and install Steam there.  I use C:\Games.  Because I created the directory I have full, non-admin read/write/execute permissions on it.  That means I don't have to run anything as Administrator to mod the games.  Everything operates under my user permissions.

 

I don't think you can just copy the Steam directory over though.  You'll need to uninstall Steam and all it's games, then do a custom install to reinstall it to the new location.  I'm pretty sure it will retain all your settings, since those are stored in %AppData% and most programs don't erase those on uninstall (in case you come back later; that directory gets incredibly bloated after a while).  And I know it won't erase your saved games that are stored in My Games.  You'll have to reinstall mods though.

[Guest]

In general it should not be necessary to run any game in admin mode. Yes, this is obviously a bad idea for the reason you already stated.

I seen these suggestions a lot that you should run Vortex in admin mode or the game exe.

I never had a problem to do anything just as a user.

But i know in the windows world, users usually are admins by default. (bad idea)

 

You could set the permission of the .exe perhaps so that you as a user can modify the item.

But it is strange that you would have to do that.

Personally, i would install any game in a different folder than program files. That location is usually admin only.

 

I dumb any game on my D drive. Anything that you should be able to edit should be in the user folder.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, aurreth said:

You need to install Steam, and therefore its games, in a non-system directory.

 

Steam, by default, installs itself in C:\Program Files.  This is fine for most users.  They aren't writing to a protected directory, just to the Steam user directory in %AppData%.  However, when you start modding you are writing changes to Program Files, a protected directory, and Windows won't allow that.

 

The solution is to create your own directory for games and install Steam there.  I use C:\Games.  Because I created the directory I have full, non-admin read/write/execute permissions on it.  That means I don't have to run anything as Administrator to mod the games.  Everything operates under my user permissions.

 

I don't think you can just copy the Steam directory over though.  You'll need to uninstall Steam and all it's games, then do a custom install to reinstall it to the new location.  I'm pretty sure it will retain all your settings, since those are stored in %AppData% and most programs don't erase those on uninstall (in case you come back later; that directory gets incredibly bloated after a while).  And I know it won't erase your saved games that are stored in My Games.  You'll have to reinstall mods though.

You can move your game from the game setting tab into a different location. Steam will move all game file to that location. (Settings/Download/Game Library) ? That is the menu, not a location

[KoolHndLuke]

Hmm... I thought installing Steam modded games in another directory or on a separate drive was just for better performance, not to bypass security issues. Thanks.

 

 

 

[aurreth]

5 minutes ago, wutpickel said:

You can move your game from the game setting tab into a different location. Steam will move all game file to that location. (Settings/Download/Game Library) ? That is the menu, not a location

 

Excellent, thank you.  That should work.  Create C:\Games, then tell Steam to put all games there.  After it moves them, since the games aren't in a protected directory, you should be able to do everything without running anything as Admin.

 

[Guest]

Just now, aurreth said:

 

Excellent, thank you.  That should work.  Create C:\Games, then tell Steam to put all games there.  After it moves them, since the games aren't in a protected directory, you should be able to do everything without running anything as Admin.

 

Yes, thats correct. So you do not have to do anything manual to make that happen. You just tell Steam, my game is now in that location. In fact, i think you should tell Steam that the new location is you primary location so it will always install any game in that location. (i think you can star the location in the menu or check mark it)

 

Naturally, Steam and GOG dumb games in the C drive. I think this is ok too, as long it is not in the program files since that folder requires admin rights.

[aurreth]

Just now, KoolHndLuke said:

Hmm... I thought installing Steam modded games in another directory or on a separate drive was just for better performance, not to bypass security issues. Thanks. So why does Steam default to C:?

 

Because that's where Microsoft says things should be installed on Windows, and because Valve doesn't care if you alter games, but they do care if you alter Steam.  And technically it's more secure, because malware will have a harder time redirecting Steam to some other internet location.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, aurreth said:

 

Because that's where Microsoft says things should be installed on Windows, and because Valve doesn't care if you alter games, but they do care if you alter Steam.  And technically it's more secure, because malware will have a harder time redirecting Steam to some other internet location.

 

I am not sure myself but i fancy that it is because were everything started with MS. On the C Drive (the DOS times). So everything is still installed by default on the C drive. Kind of strange really but perhaps thats the drive you will have for sure. But perhaps you are right. I never really thought about it.

[aurreth]

Just now, wutpickel said:

Naturally, Steam and GOG dumb games in the C drive. I think this is ok too, as long it is not in the program files since that folder requires admin rights.

 

The drive letter doesn't matter.  It's the permissions on the folder.

 

[Guest]

Just now, aurreth said:

 

The drive letter doesn't matter.  It's the permissions on the folder.

 

You are right there.

[aurreth]

1 minute ago, wutpickel said:

I am not sure myself but i fancy that it is because were everything started with MS. On the C Drive (the DOS times). So everything is still installed by default on the C drive. Kind of strange really but perhaps thats the drive you will have for sure. But perhaps you are right. I never really thought about it.

 

C is the default letter for the first hard disk.  The lettering scheme comes from early DOS, where A and B were reserved for floppy disk drives, and C was the hard drive.  A and B aren't used anymore (unless you have some legacy hardware), but the lettering scheme still stands and the first hard drive is always C.  Any other drives will default to starting at D, but you can change those if you really want to.

 

And not really strange that everything installs to C, because for most people that's the only drive they have.

[KoolHndLuke]

Could the AV interfere with a lot of mods as well? Think mine prompts me to ask if I want to let something through or not. But would I always get a notification if it's blocking something? And should I always let a mod be allowed just because someone tells me that it's to be expected and not to worry about it?

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, aurreth said:

 

C is the default letter for the first hard disk.  The lettering scheme comes from early DOS, where A and B were reserved for floppy disk drives, and C was the hard drive.  A and B aren't used anymore (unless you have some legacy hardware), but the lettering scheme still stands and the first hard drive is always C.  Any other drives will default to starting at D, but you can change those if you really want to.

 

And not really strange that everything installs to C, because for most people that's the only drive they have.

Absolutely true.

Since i touched Linux, i always have my personal stuff far away from the core OS. I think everyone should really do that as well. Its just saver.

Anyway, i am glad the problem is solved.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Could the AV interfere with a lot of mods as well? Think mine prompts me to ask if I want to let something through or not. But would I always get a notification if it's blocking something?

 

 

Dunno. I only use MS Defender.

The only thing i can think off is Steam or Skyrim with its DRM. Hello, i want to talk home.

A mod probably should not call home (send info outside).

[KoolHndLuke]

4 minutes ago, wutpickel said:

A mod probably should not call home (send info outside).

Agree if you're playing offline. I've never played a modded game online.

[aurreth]

39 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Could the AV interfere with a lot of mods as well? Think mine prompts me to ask if I want to let something through or not. But would I always get a notification if it's blocking something? And should I always let a mod be allowed just because someone tells me that it's to be expected and not to worry about it?

 

Some mods use DLLs (Dyanmic Link Libraries).  Because they are (kinda) a form of executable they may trigger your AV.

 

Personally I don't trust a mod author who tells me, "If it triggers your AV let it through, it's a false positive."  At best the author is using code that is similar to malware, at worst they are trying to install something bad.  There have also been cases of the author's computer being infected and the mod distribution files carry that malware unintentionally.

 

If a mod triggers your AV go to that mod's support thread and let the author know.  If the only answer you get is "oh, don't worry about it" ask for an explanation.  If you don't get one you like, don't use the mod.

 

[KoolHndLuke]

21 minutes ago, aurreth said:

 

Some mods use DLLs (Dyanmic Link Libraries).  Because they are (kinda) a form of executable they may trigger your AV.

 

Personally I don't trust a mod author who tells me, "If it triggers your AV let it through, it's a false positive."  At best the author is using code that is similar to malware, at worst they are trying to install something bad.  There have also been cases of the author's computer being infected and the mod distribution files carry that malware unintentionally.

 

If a mod triggers your AV go to that mod's support thread and let the author know.  If the only answer you get is "oh, don't worry about it" ask for an explanation.  If you don't get one you like, don't use the mod.

 

Thanks. Words to mod by safely I would say. Now I'm wondering how many hosting sites have a 'don't ask, don't tell' hidden policy. 

[aurreth]

5 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Thanks. Words to mod by safely I would say. Now I'm wondering how many hosting sites have a 'don't ask, don't tell' hidden policy. 

 

No idea lol  I do cybersecurity professionally, so I tend to be more strict (and paranoid) than the average gamer.  

 

I know Nexus scans every file uploaded to it, or warns you if they didn't for some reason (usually a technical glitch).  I'm also pretty sure this site doesn't, because I've seen discussions about virus alerts in various threads.  I run my own scans when I download.  I know no AV is perfect, but at least I'll know I did the right thing and tried  

 

[KoolHndLuke]

27 minutes ago, aurreth said:

I do cybersecurity professionally

Then you're probably wondering like I am why VM's aren't more of a 'thing' now. Best security we can have as far as I know.

 

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, aurreth said:

 

No idea lol  I do cybersecurity professionally, so I tend to be more strict (and paranoid) than the average gamer.  

 

I know Nexus scans every file uploaded to it, or warns you if they didn't for some reason (usually a technical glitch).  I'm also pretty sure this site doesn't, because I've seen discussions about virus alerts in various threads.  I run my own scans when I download.  I know no AV is perfect, but at least I'll know I did the right thing and tried  

 

I had something like that happen with Sims3 where the mod came from a not so clear site. It had malware at least. So i am actually wary of stuff that uses special .dll's.

[27X]

Quote

 

NEVER INSTALL ANY GAME IN PROGRAM FILES OR PROGRAM FILES (X86)

 

EVER.

 

 

 

[KoolHndLuke]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

NEVER INSTALL ANY GAME IN PROGRAM FILES OR PROGRAM FILES (X86)

 

EVER.

Post above beat you to it. Dramatic much? 

[27X]

Kind of hard to beat me to it when I've been posting it here since 2013.