SexLab Fertility Mode Arousal

[Papersword]

53 minutes ago, RhodosGuard said:

Okay, apparently this is the reason.

"There's no way to use SL variables as conditions on spells, magic effects or quests.  SL scripts and properties are not flagged as "conditional" which is a choice the SL devs made.
Even if they were conditional, they'd then require flagging SL as a required master, and I'm not willing to make SL or any sex framework mandatory.

SL does send a ModEvent when a scene ends, which allows any mod to be informed without flagging SL as a maser file.  Another (and better, IMO) choice the SL devs made."

I remember distinctly that it worked though at some point in the past. An another user also had asked what changed that stopped it from working.
SO maybe what you would need to do is create an interface that takes the Event SL generates when a scene ends, figure out which character had the active (male) role and then make a script call via Fertility Mode that adds Sperm to the passive (female) character in the scene.

I think the only problem there would be that Fertility Mode only allows characters that are or were at some point tracked as male can actually do that. 

But again, I have 0 knowledge and am just a bit frustrated that I came back to Skyrim and a core functionality of a mod I loved using stopped working in the meantime. 

I believe it worked previously because of the way FM processed... well its entire functions. AFAIK, a lot of the original mod was script based which caused a fair number of issues when things went wrong. This did allow SL integration via ModEvents. When Sub took over, most of the core functions of the mod were moved to quests, magic effects, and spells. Sub's method definitely improves stability and allows for some long standing issues to be ironed out. So now the system is more stable but more rigid, for lack of a better explanation.

There's a force gender option in FM's MCM if I'm not mistaken. That could be used to allow the PC to inseminate (I think), but yeah, the way F&T is structured NPCs might be more difficult. Again, I'm not super familiar with the whole FM pipeline, so I can't really say that there's a method to patch the ModEvent into F&T's structure. The new code wasn't built with that in mind so there would be more work needed to be done after having F&T recognize the event. 

How I sort of see it going wrong: 

SLOrgasm -> FM SL Futa Patch -> FM recognizes an insemination -> FM runs through its list of checks for validity, values, tracking -> FM does not find the right spells/magic effects/factions on the actor -> Failure

 

Kind of simplified, but I think the problem would be greater than just getting FM to recognize SL Male as valid through a patch. FM would have to recognize SL gender from the start game initialization to set up all actors under that framework. Don't think it would be impossible. It definitely would be a sort of development fork off of what Sub is doing. 

 

That's just my rambling thoughts on the issue though. I think that losing NPC SL male insemination is a small price to pay for the benefits of Sub's work. Might still work for the PC with that gender toggle though. I haven't tried that out yet. I imagine the downside would be that when you switch between Male and Female you'd reset your cycle and lose a pregnancy. 

[sub-human]

The big issue is in the base game actor genders don't change, ever.  You can query an actor's gender once, and it never changes for the entire game.

As soon as you allow any mod to override that, it means that the genders can change at any time.  Which means you have to check every actor's gender in case it changed, before you do anything with that actor.  For an hourly actor update if you're tracking 1,000 males and 1,000 females, that works out to at least 35 seconds additional just to verify their genders.

 

It also means you can't rely on the game engine's ability to do gender checks on spell conditions in parallel, but rely on some other script to process them serially.  This has a huge impact on adding actors to tracking, where right now the game engine can handle 40-50 simultaneously in under 1/4 second, whereas scripted checks for the same in series takes 7-8 seconds.

This, has a huge impact not only on speed, but also on data reliability.  You're risking race conditions while actors are being added- no other operations can safely alter the tracking data, while those actors are being added.  So it's vitally important that it end as quickly as possible to reduce the risk of data corruption.

 

Another big consideration, is that a papyrus script can only be accessed by a single other script at time.   Which means that while FM is sending mass quantities of gender lookups to SL, that's all SL can do- which puts a serious strain on SexLab's ability to do anything else.

 

I've said this several times as well. but one of the major deciding questions for implementing a feature is asking "how does it scale to 1,000?"  Because depending on MCM settings, you can easily exceed that many tracked actors just in vanilla, let alone in a modded game. If something can't scale to 1,000 or beyond I don't do it.  Which brings us to this:

It definitely would be a sort of development fork off of what Sub is doing. 

That's pretty much the case.  This, doesn't scale.  I'm not putting it into the base as long as that's true.  But if someone else wants to work on it, they're welcome to do so.

 

Yes, Fertility Mode did it in the past.   In the past, Fertility Mode also had a limit of 128 tracked actors.  Newer versions tried to both raise that cap, and keep support for SL gender settings, and what it ended up with are many bug reports on its Nexus page where people posted "workarounds" by manually forcing gender.   Not to have the PC treated as the opposite of what they were, but required to have the PC be recognized as what they actually are!

 

Might still work for the PC with that gender toggle though.

It does.   My usual play is as a female, treated as male.  I can verify that part working 100%

 

So now the system is more stable but more rigid, for lack of a better explanation.

Yes, and no...

As this mod is a testament to, one big advantage of the current way it being rather version agnostic.  I've released countless versions, and you haven't had to update your mod yet.  If it was still mostly scripted, you'd probably be forced to push out an update every time I did so.  The same with:

any version of FME will work with any version of FM+ v2.24 or newer (when support for it was explicitly added).

 

The entirety of the SL and SLSO processing is in the file _JSW_SUB_SexLabSLSO.  That script only handles SL and SLSO events, nothing else.  It's no longer part of a large script that handles many duties.  A change to that script, doesn't necessitate changing anything else, at all.

[Papersword]

3 hours ago, sub-human said:

It does.   My usual play is as a female, treated as male.  I can verify that part working 100%

 

Ah, I hadn't tested that yet, but I am glad to know it works! 

 

For NPCs I assumed there was a serious script load. SL has the advantage in only ever needing to ping gender for animations, and even that messes up often enough to notice. Leave alone pinging all the time for tracked actors. 

 

3 hours ago, sub-human said:

As this mod is a testament to, one big advantage of the current way it being rather version agnostic.  I've released countless versions, and you haven't had to update your mod yet.  If it was still mostly scripted, you'd probably be forced to push out an update every time I did so. 

Yeah, so long as the Fertile magic effect doesn't need to be changed, I don't need to update the mod. I've spent time adjusting script from other mods and will definitely say it's a lot more frustrating than using xEdit. And, as you say, there isn't a concern that my version of a script needs updating or will break a new version of another mod.

 

Do tracked actors gain a magic effect for their fertile periods? I'm assuming not. I tried to look for one since then I might be able to add the function of my mod to NPCs while fertile. I like to keep things simple as well, so if there was an effect that is added and removed without intervention (like the PC effect) that would be ideal. 

 

@RhodosGuard

 

One thing I did just think of: Bakafactory/Babo has a version of the mod Fill Her Up that--I believe--hooks into FM. There's an option in it to add sperm to characters if they are experiencing the inflation from FHU. I've not tested it out for FM Tweaks, but it could be a bridge mod between Futa and FM. Could still work incorrectly since adding sperm from a tracked female in FM might just confuse it. Or simply not add the sperm. You would have to deal with all SL males periodically adding sperm to every actor inflated though. From what I saw before it's a fairly large amount. Like, hundreds every tick you are inflated.  

[RhodosGuard]

IF the Problem is the "probability" that an actor changes gender at any point, wouldnt it, theoretically, be possible to add a switch to NPCs the same way there is a switch for PC?

YOu dont need to constantly check a gender that can be changed, you query genders the same way you do now, but you manually add/remove actors to tracking lists if their gender is set in MCM.

given I am an absolute newb when it comes to modding, as soon as it exceeds reading and understanding what happens in SSE-Edit, but this seems like a solution where less automation might be a solution.

So adding a Hotkey to "mark" an NPC, then get the option to change their gender, which would run a script, that, instead of checking every actor, takes the actor, removes him from one tracking set, and adds them to another.

And, if possible, add a switch to Futa as an additional option, that adds the actor to both lists. and then, instead of querying gender of any kind, all you ever do is check whether that actor is part of the tracking in one of the two sets. Of course I dont know if that is in any kind better for performance. 

I also think "scaling to 1000" is, to use a german idiom, shooting at sparrows with canons.
I understand why that is a guiding principle, because as soon as you allow EVERY actor to be tracked, you can have hundreds upon hundreds of generic "Bandit" in your list.

So I understand why it might be forked off of your version if that is what you try to allow people to do. 

I have restricted my tracking to Unique NPCs. at around level 60 with quite some hours invested into my save, I am currently tracking less than 600 NPCs with update times between 3 and 10 seconds. 

I dunno. It just seems like wasted potential.

But I also dont wanna add any more pregnancy/inflation mods.

I am currently already using Hentai Pregnancies (for Cuminflation and Creature/SOul Gem pregnancies) and FM+.
Adding another mod just takes more space in my MCM that I have to account for when trying to see which mod to use for which functionality it just has. 
But even them, I dont think FHU would work, since, at least the way I understand it, for a person to be impregnated by an actor, that other actor has to be within the male tracking list. And you cannot achieve that with any NPC set to Female in the base game. 

[Papersword]

1 hour ago, RhodosGuard said:

But I also dont wanna add any more pregnancy/inflation mods.

 

That's fair. While I do find Baka's mods at least very interesting they are also... mmmmm... difficult to wrangle. A lot of creativity in that one with some flawed execution. And, like you said, it might not even work. 

Can't speak to the main body of your reply though. I just don't know enough about the inner workings of FM. Though, maybe there is some merit in your suggestion of adding a marker function to replicate the PC option of setting gender for an NPC or two.  

[sub-human]

Quote

Do tracked actors gain a magic effect for their fertile periods? I'm assuming not. I tried to look for one since then I might be able to add the function of my mod to NPCs while fertile. I like to keep things simple as well, so if there was an effect that is added and removed without intervention (like the PC effect) that would be ideal. 

Depending on what you want it for, this might fit your needs: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/articles/4100

If they're fertile, their faction rank will be -15.  You could easily modify an existing cycle spell to add an additional Magic Effect when that was true.  Or make your own spell, for that matter.

Using that faction rank as a sort of tracking was added after you made this initially, so that's why you probably never noticed it before.

 

Quote

One thing I did just think of: Bakafactory/Babo has a version of the mod Fill Her Up that--I believe--hooks into FM. There's an option in it to add sperm to characters if they are experiencing the inflation from FHU.

It sends a ModEvent, FMModSpermEvent.  The code for handling it is in _jsw_sub_eventHandler

 

Quote

I also think "scaling to 1000" is, to use a german idiom, shooting at sparrows with canons.

I understand why that is a guiding principle, because as soon as you allow EVERY actor to be tracked, you can have hundreds upon hundreds of generic "Bandit" in your list.

Ok, first point: just because you don't play that way, doesn't mean it's not valid for other people to want to play the game that way.

Second point: I don't track generic hostiles such as bandits, warlocks, forsworn, etc.  In my current playthrough I've explored Falkreath Hold, The Rift, Eastmarch and parts of Whiterun Hold.  I'm currently tracking 533 females- while blocking the generic hostiles as previously mentioned- so hitting 1,000 by the time I've explored the entire map is going to happen, barring any mass execution events.

If you start tracking generics, that number is likely closer to 2,000.

 

 

Quote

I have restricted my tracking to Unique NPCs. at around level 60 with quite some hours invested into my save, I am currently tracking less than 600 NPCs with update times between 3 and 10 seconds.

 

Also bear in mind that "unique" doesn't, in Bethesda terms, always mean what people may expect.  Illia, in Darklight Tower and Asta in Eldergleam Sanctuary are not flagged as unique, just for two examples.

 

 

Quote

IF the Problem is the "probability" that an actor changes gender at any point, wouldnt it, theoretically, be possible to add a switch to NPCs the same way there is a switch for PC?

 

Coding in special handling for a small number of characters is very possible.   But it's totally impractical on a larger scale.

Bear in mind the second you do this, those actors can't be processed by the game engine's spell system anymore   They have to be scripted effects.  Which means you're right back to the bug reports on FM's nexus page for actor morphs getting "stuck" on actors, and shaders from the "Detect Fertility" spell getting stuck on actors indefinitely.

It works on the PC, because you can be 100% certain that the PC's 3d model is always loaded at all times.   You can't be sure of that with NPCs.

If you morph an NPC, or apply a shader to them and they walk thru a load door into an unloaded cell, their 3d model may no longer be loaded.   At which point, you cannot unmorph them or remove that effect shader via scripting.

 

This is why I keep saying a good solution hasn't been found.  Anything I've thought of or that other people have brought up, would have the inevitible effect of re-introducing bugs that have been squashed for over a year.

 

And, importantly back to something you mentioned- tracking 600 actors and updates taking a max of 10 seconds.  Try that in stock FM, where all processing is via scripting.  I think you'll find updates taking closer to 100 seconds.  You'll be heading back in that direction, as well.

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by sub-human

[LordAzelion]

Hi, does this work with OSLAroused? Thx!

[Papersword]

10 hours ago, LordAzelion said:

Hi, does this work with OSLAroused? Thx!

I'm not very familiar with OSLAroused. If OSLA can receive the same script events as SLA, it should be compatible. Since it's a very basic event that a lot of other mods use to modify arousal, I would imagine most authors would have their frameworks recognize it even if only as a legacy function. 

If you'd like to test it, make sure to remove my mod after making a save without the PC effected by the Fertile magic effect if the script isn't working with OSLA. That way at least you shouldn't have an orphaned script in the save. 

 

PS. Well, thinking about it, I believe you would still have an orphaned script... I'm not 100% on it. But, if you wish to continue the save after removing the script, the best way to prevent issues would to make sure it's not actively running during removal. Using ReSaver to remove it after that would be good practice. Using a save without the script made before testing it would be best practice. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Papersword

[LordAzelion]

3 hours ago, Papersword said:

If you'd like to test it, make sure to remove my mod after making a save without the PC effected by the Fertile magic effect if the script isn't working with OSLA. That way at least you shouldn't have an orphaned script in the save. 

 

PS. Well, thinking about it, I believe you would still have an orphaned script... I'm not 100% on it. But, if you wish to continue the save after removing the script, the best way to prevent issues would to make sure it's not actively running during removal. Using ReSaver to remove it after that would be good practice. Using a save without the script made before testing it would be best practice. 

Thank you for the reply! I will test it out then, will probably leave it running if it doesn't work. I assume it doesn't hurt if it doesn't work right? There is no good way to immersively see if PC is fertile currently for FM so I really wanted your mod to work, at least it can give sort of an indication lol.

[RevanCathal]

On 5/24/2022 at 4:39 AM, Papersword said:

 

Ah, I hadn't tested that yet, but I am glad to know it works! 

 

For NPCs I assumed there was a serious script load. SL has the advantage in only ever needing to ping gender for animations, and even that messes up often enough to notice. Leave alone pinging all the time for tracked actors. 

 

Yeah, so long as the Fertile magic effect doesn't need to be changed, I don't need to update the mod. I've spent time adjusting script from other mods and will definitely say it's a lot more frustrating than using xEdit. And, as you say, there isn't a concern that my version of a script needs updating or will break a new version of another mod.

 

Do tracked actors gain a magic effect for their fertile periods? I'm assuming not. I tried to look for one since then I might be able to add the function of my mod to NPCs while fertile. I like to keep things simple as well, so if there was an effect that is added and removed without intervention (like the PC effect) that would be ideal. 

 

@RhodosGuard

 

One thing I did just think of: Bakafactory/Babo has a version of the mod Fill Her Up that--I believe--hooks into FM. There's an option in it to add sperm to characters if they are experiencing the inflation from FHU. I've not tested it out for FM Tweaks, but it could be a bridge mod between Futa and FM. Could still work incorrectly since adding sperm from a tracked female in FM might just confuse it. Or simply not add the sperm. You would have to deal with all SL males periodically adding sperm to every actor inflated though. From what I saw before it's a fairly large amount. Like, hundreds every tick you are inflated.  

I know this comment is 6 months old, but back on August 16th a user by the name of WorldCrasher shared an edit to here Fertility Mode v3 Fixes and Tweaks at Skyrim Special Edition Nexus - Mods and Community (nexusmods.com) in which they had edited the _jsw_sub_sexlabslso.pex to basically allow the "allow female/female cum" option in Sexlab to properly function with Fertility Mode Fixes and Tweaks the way it does with base Fertility Mode mod.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Jgoftl

[Papersword]

20 hours ago, LordAzelion said:

Thank you for the reply! I will test it out then, will probably leave it running if it doesn't work. I assume it doesn't hurt if it doesn't work right? There is no good way to immersively see if PC is fertile currently for FM so I really wanted your mod to work, at least it can give sort of an indication lol.

 

Hmm... It might throw errors if the event doesn't resolve. Probably a very minor, "Hey this didn't resolve", every in-game hour during fertility. No big deal on its own. 

 

20 hours ago, Jgoftl said:

I know this comment is 6 months old, but back on August 16th a user by the name of WorldCrasher shared an edit to here Fertility Mode v3 Fixes and Tweaks at Skyrim Special Edition Nexus - Mods and Community (nexusmods.com) in which they had edited the _jsw_sub_sexlabslso.pex to basically allow the "allow female/female cum" option in Sexlab to properly function with Fertility Mode Fixes and Tweaks the way it does with base Fertility Mode mod.

Ah, nice! Thank you for posting that here. 

[RevanCathal]

On 11/5/2022 at 11:15 PM, Papersword said:

 

Hmm... It might throw errors if the event doesn't resolve. Probably a very minor, "Hey this didn't resolve", every in-game hour during fertility. No big deal on its own. 

 

Ah, nice! Thank you for posting that here. 

No problem. After testing it, it removes males ability to inseminate entirely. So I would recommend only using it if you're running SkyFem. Or maybe someone can fix that particular file to work for both males and females.

[Jack005]

I dont use fixes and tweaks, can you upload the one that doesn't need fixes and tweaks please?, this is a really good idea by the way

[Papersword]

On 7/20/2024 at 12:31 AM, Jack005 said:

I dont use fixes and tweaks, can you upload the one that doesn't need fixes and tweaks please?, this is a really good idea by the way

 

Hi, thank you! Unfortunately I don't know much about how regular FM works to make a compatible version for it. If you can stomach the switch to Fixes and Tweaks I would highly recommend it. 

[Jack005]

On 7/21/2024 at 1:50 AM, Papersword said:

 

Hi, thank you! Unfortunately I don't know much about how regular FM works to make a compatible version for it. If you can stomach the switch to Fixes and Tweaks I would highly recommend it. 

Last time I used fertility didn't work at all and had script lag, and before I comented here try to see if coud installed and give it another change but it says that 
Mid-Game:
As of version 2.0, installation mid-game is no longer supported!
If a game has had Fertility Mode or an version < 2.0 of this mod installed, you will have extreme difficulty to the point of practical impossibility adding this mod.  If you're determined to try, you're on your own.  I'm not wasting my time on what I believe to be an exercise in futility.

 

and my game is already unstable to give a try to "uninstall Fertility mode --> use re-saver ---> install fertility mode v3 fixes and tweaks" but thanks for the response

[Papersword]

On 7/23/2024 at 11:25 PM, Jack005 said:

Last time I used fertility didn't work at all and had script lag, and before I comented here try to see if coud installed and give it another change but it says that 
Mid-Game:
As of version 2.0, installation mid-game is no longer supported!
If a game has had Fertility Mode or an version < 2.0 of this mod installed, you will have extreme difficulty to the point of practical impossibility adding this mod.  If you're determined to try, you're on your own.  I'm not wasting my time on what I believe to be an exercise in futility.

 

and my game is already unstable to give a try to "uninstall Fertility mode --> use re-saver ---> install fertility mode v3 fixes and tweaks" but thanks for the response

 

Yeah it's highly recommended to start a new game when using F&T. Again, sorry I can't help you out 😔

[VahzahVulom]

does this work with Sexlab Aroused NG

[Papersword]

26 minutes ago, VahzahVulom said:

does this work with Sexlab Aroused NG

 

It should. If I remember, there's maintained compatibility for events so every mod that uses SLA doesn't need to be updated. 

[The Lonesome Spirit]

Changing the value in the MCM sadly does not work for me. Always returns to the number 3. Attempting to toggle it on/off does not work either. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by The Lonesome Spirit

[Papersword]

2 hours ago, The Lonesome Spirit said:

Changing the value in the MCM sadly does not work for me. Always returns to the number 3. Attempting to toggle it on/off does not work either. 

 

This is so embarassing. I did not make the MCM correctly. 🙃

But thankfully you pointed it out, and it should now be fixed. 

 

I'm glad to realize where I messed up before I finished the new project I've been working on. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Papersword

[dregin14]

Hi, I saw the recent update and im a bit confused between the 2 files, what exactly is the difference between hidden and unhidden effects? 

[Papersword]

7 hours ago, dregin14 said:

Hi, I saw the recent update and im a bit confused between the 2 files, what exactly is the difference between hidden and unhidden effects? 

 

Fertility Mode shows ovulation and the first trimester of pregnancy as magic effects in the magic menu. I prefer to keep those hidden myself, so I've provided the option with my addon. All it does is change those effects to not be displayed in the menu. 

[dregin14]

19 minutes ago, Papersword said:

 

Fertility Mode shows ovulation and the first trimester of pregnancy as magic effects in the magic menu. I prefer to keep those hidden myself, so I've provided the option with my addon. All it does is change those effects to not be displayed in the menu. 

oh ok, so essentially both versions are the same but with just a minor change to how its displaying magic effects. ok, thx for the explanation, i was having a hard time figuring that out when i saw the changelog, got a bit of a lizard brain

Edited January 1, 2025 by dregin14

[The Lonesome Spirit]

On 12/30/2024 at 4:20 PM, Papersword said:

 

This is so embarassing. I did not make the MCM correctly. 🙃

But thankfully you pointed it out, and it should now be fixed. 

 

I'm glad to realize where I messed up before I finished the new project I've been working on. 

 

Thanks for going back and taking a look at it! 

 

It is fixed.

[The Lonesome Spirit]

So I've been playing around with the new version (1.1.2) of the mod, MCM updates now which is nice, but I'm not entirely sure the mod is working anymore.

 

Went into the MCM set the exposure rate to 10. Character is currently in "Pre-Fertile" stage, however my character does not gain any arousal via this mod seemingly. Previous versions it was very noticeable. Almost every few hours character would be highly aroused. Now - nothing.

 

Could be on my end. I'd appreciate if someone else could replicate this or its my own issue. 

Edited January 2, 2025 by The Lonesome Spirit