Naked Defeat SE

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, Rosvinar said:

This is the guide I used.
 

 

 

hmm, ok, that somehow escaped me. 
but I also never paid much attention to this either.

Do you convert every version?
I would like to add the converted ESP to downloads as optional extra for SE so ppl can test if it changes things. 
if you could just send me the converted ESP:

I ll also look how fast I can do this, but I think I need SE creation kit? I dont feel like setting it up at the moment  

Edited July 25, 2022 by Nymra

[Rosvinar]

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

 

hmm, ok, that somehow escaped me. 
but I also never paid much attention to this either.

Do you convert every version?
I would like to add the converted ESP to downloads as optional extra for SE so ppl can test if it changes things. 
if you could just send me the converted ESP:

I ll also look how fast I can do this, but I think I need SE creation kit? I dont feel like setting it up at the moment  

In all truth i will need some time to look into how to get the esp back once there installed.

 

I have i think version 4.80 and 4.81 i don't think i have the older versions converted anywhere.

 

(unless its just a simple copy and pasting it directly from my data folder. But it cant be that simple right?).

 

i think i get back home on the 18/19 of august so unfortunately i cant send anything until then.

 

if it helps ill upload my papyrus log as well. I will just need to remember how that works again.

[crajjjj]

2 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

hmm, ok, that somehow escaped me. 
but I also never paid much attention to this either.

Do you convert every version?
I would like to add the converted ESP to downloads as optional extra for SE so ppl can test if it changes things. 
if you could just send me the converted ESP:

I ll also look how fast I can do this, but I think I need SE creation kit? I dont feel like setting it up at the moment  

Here you go. Playing it now.{4.81}

https://gitlab.com/G_ka/Cathedral_Assets_Optimizer/-/wikis/Porting-a-mod

 

Naked Defeat.esp

Edited July 25, 2022 by crajjjj

[Nymra]

3 minutes ago, crajjjj said:

Here you go. Playing it now.{4.81}

https://gitlab.com/G_ka/Cathedral_Assets_Optimizer/-/wikis/Porting-a-mod

 

Naked Defeat.esp 318.61 kB · 0 downloads

 

uh, nice!

I would kindly ask for somebody to convert changes ESP files with new updates. I ll gladly add it to the official download if this brings any improvements.
I could see to it that ESP changes are stacked in more important updates, so the ESP does not need to be updated that often. 

 

 

[WaterRabbit]

6 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

I will take some time for a full answer, just very curious how you changed the ESP form from 43 to 44? 
is there a guide you used? 
I thought its only possible manually by rebuilding it in xEdit bit by bit

 

I am a bit confused by this.  If you are using the SE Creation Kit, it automatically saves as form 44.  "In Theory" (as I have not seen it myself) using Form 43 mods in SE can eventually lead to save file corruption.  I suppose it depends on what the mod is doing.  Unfortunately most LL mods are still form 43 even though they are advertised as being for SE.

 

To quote: "

Form 43 (or lower) plugins are modules that were made for Skyrim LE (Oldrim) and have not been properly ported to Skyrim Special Edition, which uses form 44 plugins. This usually results in parts of the mod not working correctly.

To be converted, these plugins simply need to be opened and saved with the SSE Creation Kit but their presence can be an indication that a mod was not properly ported to SSE and so can potentially have additional issues.

Online guides can have more information on how to correctly convert mods for Skyrim SE."

 

The DD mods mods are this way, for example.

 

------------
About bloat.  When running AE (SE 1.6+ and the CC mods), it adds 70+ mods to the base game.  Most of them are ESL flagged and are player homes or armor mods.  Almost all of them have short quests associated with them.

 

The "script heavy" mods in my load order should not be active during a defeat scenario - Legacy of the Dragonborn + all of its patches take up most of my 479 active mods.  However, two mods I suppose could be trying to do stuff during a defeat scenario.  DCL and Babo Dialogues.  For DCL, combat is turned off but I don't know how it runs under the hood as it still may be checking things and just not acting.  Babo Dialogues is very much a WIP and many of the scenarios don't work, so I would not be surprised if something wasn't behaving there.

I would get you a log, but after the werewolf problem, I just started a new game going back to Defeat.  I like a lot of ideas in this mod, but at least for me, it was too temperamental when combined with my other mods.  

 

------------

 

Behavior packages is one of those pain in arse to configure, so I feel your pain there.  I think if you could just use the spectator package while your scenes are running that would solve a number of other issues.  Or maybe look at what Defeat is doing with the attackers and model off of that.  It is one of the things that Defeat does well -- gathering up the attackers and have them clap and cheer while the assault scenes are running.

 

The initial crawling animation seems unnecessary to me then it the only purpose is to find a level spot.  SexLab has a reposition function in it already for that purpose.

 

[bnub345]

13 hours ago, WaterRabbit said:

I am a bit confused by this.  If you are using the SE Creation Kit, it automatically saves as form 44.  "In Theory" (as I have not seen it myself) using Form 43 mods in SE can eventually lead to save file corruption.  I suppose it depends on what the mod is doing.  Unfortunately most LL mods are still form 43 even though they are advertised as being for SE.

 

To quote: "

Form 43 (or lower) plugins are modules that were made for Skyrim LE (Oldrim) and have not been properly ported to Skyrim Special Edition, which uses form 44 plugins. This usually results in parts of the mod not working correctly.

To be converted, these plugins simply need to be opened and saved with the SSE Creation Kit but their presence can be an indication that a mod was not properly ported to SSE and so can potentially have additional issues.

Online guides can have more information on how to correctly convert mods for Skyrim SE."

 

Amazing that people still spout this nonsense more than 5 years after SSE was released. The SE engine can natively support both form 43 and 44 headers without problems. In fact you can see that Bethesda has both of these forms, and others, present in the data files for SE. You can convert them by loading and saving the esp in the CK, but there are also bugs that Bethesda introduced into the converter and these will propagate into your mod after conversion. So unless you have a specific reason to convert the form header, it's probably best to keep it as 43. 

[WaterRabbit]

4 minutes ago, bnub345 said:

 

Amazing that people still spout this nonsense more than 5 years after SSE was released. The SE engine can natively support both form 43 and 44 headers without problems. In fact you can see that Bethesda has both of these forms, and others, present in the data files for SE. You can convert them by loading and saving the esp in the CK, but there are also bugs that Bethesda introduced into the converter and these will propagate into your mod after conversion. So unless you have a specific reason to convert the form header, it's probably best to keep it as 43. 

 

Yes it is amazing. ?

[Rosvinar]

I think in all truth, when it actually comes down to it, it depends on a mod list by mod list basis whether its worth converting form 43 to 44’s on SE.

 

For example when i first started modding it was actually a friend who taught me the basics, ever since SE came out she swears by only ever using form 44’s in order to negate corruption especially when running mods from LL because these mods are usually very personal projects getting regular minor updates that in themselves could have accidental glitch etc.

 

that being said there are times where i imagine for some peoples mod list swapping form versions may cause more problems than it fixes. 
 

ND seems to be one of these cases, because all be it, it takes a while to load on SE. I have never heard anyone complain about it causing corrupted games. Even when running it in form 43 on SE. That being said i stick to the rule of always converting it. Again still no issues (in fact like ive already said converting this too form 44 only made it run more smoothly). So this matter of form version is really just a personal risk factor some people are fine running and others are perhaps sceptical of.

 

.... i really got to find a way to stop writing huge paragraphs in this thread.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Rosvinar

[no_way]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:18 AM, Nymra said:

 

install ND on an isolated profile or a copy of your main profile (easy task on MO2) and test the mod. If you dont like it you can delete the duplicate profile and continue playing with the original. 

Well I’d like to play with the mod but have the option to remove it later on and not lose all my other progress.  But I’m not sure how to convert to 44 with so many masters.  It definitely corrupted my save last time and don’t want to have that happen to my purged/clean restart as things are defo running better now.  

I probably have a decently bloated load order, does anyone have a method for finding which mods are the most papyrus intensive during a ND series of events so i can decide if I want to remove them to speed up the transition times?  Cause I love the progress this mod is making and the all in one direction it’s taking for aftermath/scenarios which would let me get rid of a lot of other junk but it’s so slow to execute compared to SL defeat Banemaster edition I just can’t see it being my total script load being the issue.

Edited July 26, 2022 by no_way

[no_way]

4 hours ago, Rosvinar said:

I think in all truth, when it actually comes down to it, it depends on a mod list by mod list basis whether its worth converting form 43 to 44’s on SE.

 

For example when i first started modding it was actually a friend who taught me the basics, ever since SE came out she swears by only ever using form 44’s in order to negate corruption especially when running mods from LL because these mods are usually very personal projects getting regular minor updates that in themselves could have accidental glitch etc.

 

that being said there are times where i imagine for some peoples mod list swapping form versions may cause more problems than it fixes. 
 

ND seems to be one of these cases, because all be it, it takes a while to load on SE. I have never heard anyone complain about it causing corrupted games. Even when running it in form 43 on SE. That being said i stick to the rule of always converting it. Again still no issues (in fact like ive already said converting this too form 44 only made it run more smoothly). So this matter of form version is really just a personal risk factor some people are fine running and others are perhaps sceptical of.

 

.... i really got to find a way to stop writing huge paragraphs in this thread.

How’d you convert it?  I want to do the same each time nymra updates but not possible with CC due to multiple masters 

[no_way]

On 7/25/2022 at 2:02 PM, Rosvinar said:

When I did my reinstall I changed some form 43 mods to form 44, BOTH naked defeat and Sexlab animation remover were among these and were changed to form 44.
(at least I think I did it correctly, all I know is that they both work and run seemingly without any issues).

Since using you animation remover ND has been running perfectly fine for me on SE, ND is the only Gameplay mod i have running through SL the only other mods are just addons, such as spank that ass, slave tats, etc.

I have no creature framework and the only animation packages I use through SL are the ones specifically for ND. (personal choice, obviously).

As a result of me running a very minimal SL package and then reducing the total animations to what i can only assume is perhaps maybe a fifth of the original amount, my theory is this is why my ND is running ok.

the crawl animation time is the same, or near enough the same as whatever i set it as. (even if its not perfect the difference is not noticable).
and the wait timer for the assults is also running ok. again whatever i set this setting to is near enough the amount of time i spend waiting.

The only issues I'm have with ND at the minute, are issue i know are self inflicted due to other mods interfering with either movement or animations.

I had a bug originally with FNIS sexy moves. but I remedied that by switching my characters walking animations over to DAR. 

So your SL, you have little to no animation SLAL packs loaded and this is why you think the times are low?  I might debloat my anim list if that’s the case but, what happens when they rape you?  What anime are playing if you removed the basic ones?

[Nymra]

well, this all gets very complex and connects issues that are not connected at all.

 

1. Naked Defeat is not like SL Defeat. It has alot more features, while SL Defeat is basically "bleedout, immobilize player, rape" and be done with it. 
Naked Defeat has complex scenes and markers that are placed to make the different scenarios work. 
I hate that this comparison still comes up, because its like comparing apples with tomatoes.

I know this is described as an alternative to SL Defeat but that does not mean both mods have anything in common except for their general idea of combat rape. 
 

2. Naked Defeat works perfectly fine on my setup with accurate timers and no delays. This alone is a good sign that the mod and its scripts are not the problem here. 

 

3. Sexlab itself is a different thing entirely. Sex Scenes can take alot longer to start and end when you use alot of anims, alot of mods that connect to Sexlab etc.

But this should only affect Sex Scenes. Sexlab beeing fast or slow should not affect any other stage of Naked Defeat.

 

Only difference that can exist is if you use OsmelMCs modifications, but I think I changed ND to not cause issues. I had an issue where osmels way of playing sounds in sexlab delayed Naked Defeat (connected to "moaning").
I ll double check if this might cause the issues tho, since I think Sexlab Utility Plus from LE is also integrated into Sexlab SE. 

 

4. EVERY mod in your game can cause papyrus lag. 
from my experience it is connected to short "update times" on script execution like area scans etc.

As described, Barefoot Realism was my first mod that I removed for that reason. 
Some say Aroused is also causing stuff like that (but there are 3 versions of SLA now, so maybe just swap.

 

Sadly. the only good way to do this is bulk removing mods and then test until it works better and then check the individual mods removed in the last bulk. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Nymra

[bnub345]

4 hours ago, no_way said:

How’d you convert it?  I want to do the same each time nymra updates but not possible with CC due to multiple masters 

 

Go to your skyrim game directory and open CreationKit.ini, under the [General] section add this line

 

bAllowMultipleMasterLoads=1

 

Not that there is any reason to convert form 43 esps, but if it makes you feel better go ahead.

[Nymra]

22 hours ago, WaterRabbit said:

 

I am a bit confused by this.  If you are using the SE Creation Kit, it automatically saves as form 44.  "In Theory" (as I have not seen it myself) using Form 43 mods in SE can eventually lead to save file corruption.  I suppose it depends on what the mod is doing.  Unfortunately most LL mods are still form 43 even though they are advertised as being for SE.

 

if a mod works on SE it is SE compatible, period. 
Save Game corruption might happen, but it can be circumvented.

Also Naked Defeat is not doing anything when disabled so its not even necessary to uninstall it when you dont like it. 

Using Mods is digging trenches into dirt, not building clean and perfect clockworks for watches. 

 

22 hours ago, WaterRabbit said:

 

The "script heavy" mods in my load order should not be active during a defeat scenario - Legacy of the Dragonborn + all of its patches take up most of my 479 active mods.  However, two mods I suppose could be trying to do stuff during a defeat scenario.  DCL and Babo Dialogues.  For DCL, combat is turned off but I don't know how it runs under the hood as it still may be checking things and just not acting.  Babo Dialogues is very much a WIP and many of the scenarios don't work, so I would not be surprised if something wasn't behaving there.

 

its not about what mods are active during the defeat scenario, but what mods are active in general.

barefoot realism for example caused stackdumps because its scripts were so heavy and seemed to repeat so fast it made papyrus implode regularly.
I had alot of similar mods over the years and I could usually identify most of them by checking my papyurs.log files. They caused log spam, stacks or stack dumps and removing them improved the overall game stability ALOT usually. 

Dont try to apply logic here, just check logs and if logs dont help, remove mod by mod until you see an improvement. 
"Script heavy" is also used in a wrong way IMO. 
Naked Defeat is not script heavy, it only runs one script when the scenario is not running. And during the scenario it runs some more, sure, but its also outside of combat or other scenes, so in theory this should be ok. 
There are mods that have more "active scripts" permanently than naked defeat has during its scenario.

Btw checking "active scripts" in ReSaver/SaveCleaner tools is also worthwhile. Helped me finding bugs and also idenfity mods that cause script lag. 

 

22 hours ago, WaterRabbit said:

I would get you a log, but after the werewolf problem, I just started a new game going back to Defeat.  I like a lot of ideas in this mod, but at least for me, it was too temperamental when combined with my other mods.  

 

yeah well, I cannot improve compatibility without feedback like this, but you do you. 

 

22 hours ago, WaterRabbit said:

The initial crawling animation seems unnecessary to me then it the only purpose is to find a level spot.  SexLab has a reposition function in it already for that purpose.

 

this is funny, since I implemented the crawl to spot exactly to find an immersive way to circumvent the immersion breaking need to use the sexlab hotkey...

also naked defeat uses markers to work, so the scene should not be repositioned after the spot is set anyway.

 

you can disable the initial crawl by setting the timer to 0 sec too...

Edited July 27, 2022 by Nymra

[Nymra]

if anybody with "timer lag" tests the form 44 esp from Craaj and without any other changes notices an improvement of the timers (a siginifcant one ofc) then please report back to me, I m curious, because in general I also read that the forms are not of such importance. 
No matter what, I always encourage testing different options since setups are so very different and if everything else has failed... why not. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Nymra

[gamer098]

I would love for there to be a way to toggle which furniture can be used. I don't like the rope ones because they change your PC's proportions.

[Rosvinar]

I want to check for certain when im next online.

 

but i still stand by sexlab causing the lag. ND only runs one script to detect knock down state and entities within range of the player (hope this is correct).

 

but I’m wondering if sexlab simply cant output its side of things fast enough.

 

eg. ND pings SL and its The taking SL And indeed all of its addons forever to select appropriate animations and assign actors, resulting and making it look as though its ND Lagging.

 

when in reality this is an SL framework issue.

[Rosvinar]

All im saying is the Gal with the minimal load order over here has no issues.

 

and all the people who have mod conflicts with this and that mod, or issues with compatibility For DD, babo or other addons Which are running via SL, are the ones seemingly timing out all the time.

[bnub345]

If the SL scene initiation takes forever, make sure you enable the teleport in the sexlab MCM. That way the NPCs don't have to spend time pathing to the player or getting stuck walking into a wall.

[Rosvinar]

30 minutes ago, bnub345 said:

 

Go to your skyrim game directory and open CreationKit.ini, under the [General] section add this line

 

bAllowMultipleMasterLoads=1

 

Not that there is any reason to convert form 43 esps, but if it makes you feel better go ahead.

I get the sense you didn’t read what i said. There are very good reasons behind using form 44’s. But the scenarios related to this choice will vary for mod list to mod list. For example i know for a fact if you try running form 43 anims along side lets say DAR specific idles or walk anims then your entire game with through a hissy fit and you either start T posing you or will just simply crash on launch.

using for 43’s on a platform designed for 44’s may result in no issues if you not heavily modding. but once you start editing specific folders and moving stuff around. Using form 43’s no longer becomes a viable option. Hence why I stated it will be a modlist by modlist circumstance.

[Nymra]

47 minutes ago, gamer098 said:

I would love for there to be a way to toggle which furniture can be used. I don't like the rope ones because they change your PC's proportions.

 

thats not the furnitures but an incorrect setup of your ZAP Framework bodyslide files. 

[Rosvinar]

Nymra, So out of interest what is your setup like just enough to test the mod out, or is it more of a complex list of plugins. Just curious 
 

this way we could have a comparison of what Everyone could copy on there first install in order to test Its correct setup?

 

if it would be ok just a simple list of plugins running via SL would work. This way we can compare what your setup that works looks like in comparison to the load orders of everyone else.

 

[Nymra]

24 minutes ago, Rosvinar said:

Nymra, So out of interest what is your setup like just enough to test the mod out, or is it more of a complex list of plugins. Just curious 
 

 

I m using my normal playthrough profile on LE with 254 ESPs (almost 350 with merges counted) and roughly 400-500 mods. 
So there is no "test setup" that I am using. 
I had a test profile but I noticed I find bugs and problems faster when I m using my full fledged profile. 

 

24 minutes ago, Rosvinar said:

this way we could have a comparison of what Everyone could copy on there first install in order to test Its correct setup?

 

I dont understand. 

 

24 minutes ago, Rosvinar said:

if it would be ok just a simple list of plugins running via SL would work. This way we can compare what your setup that works looks like in comparison to the load orders of everyone else.

 

I dont think it works that way. Simply because I m on LE and most users are on SE makes a huge difference. 
Reportedly SE sexlab runs slower from the start (while I do not have official information about that) so I count it as rumors to this point.

 

[Rosvinar]

2 minutes ago, Nymra said:

I dont think it works that way. Simply because I m on LE and most users are on SE makes a huge difference. 
Reportedly SE sexlab runs slower from the start (while I do not have official information about that) so I count it as rumors to this point.

 

thats a fair point. I was just curios as to the number of addons etc you had running via SL. Creature frame works, animation packages, SLSO, addons like Spank that ass. which runs scripts to look for events, etc.
 

[bnub345]

1 hour ago, Rosvinar said:

I get the sense you didn’t read what i said. There are very good reasons behind using form 44’s. But the scenarios related to this choice will vary for mod list to mod list. For example i know for a fact if you try running form 43 anims along side lets say DAR specific idles or walk anims then your entire game with through a hissy fit and you either start T posing you or will just simply crash on launch.

using for 43’s on a platform designed for 44’s may result in no issues if you not heavily modding. but once you start editing specific folders and moving stuff around. Using form 43’s no longer becomes a viable option. Hence why I stated it will be a modlist by modlist circumstance.

 

The only way form 43 plugins can cause an issue is if they contain different info from what the SE engine expects. Luckily for us (in this case), Beth were lazy bastards when they converted the game from x32 to x64, and did the bare minimum of changes to make the game work. As such, the only file headers that actually changed were:

• MATO
• STAT
• WATR
• WTHR
• WEAP
• (sub) - VMAD

Let's take a look at the ND esp now. The only ones on this list are STAT and WEAP. Looking at the STAT entries, the actual part that changed is DNAM (Directional Material), which has a Null Ref. Converting the form 43 > form 44 in the CK and looking at it again... still has a Null Ref. So nothing changed. Now on to the WEAP entries. There are two weapons in the esp, and the field that changed was CRDT (Critical Data). Here we see - oh no! - an error message. Except the weapons aren't actually used anywhere, so it doesn't matter. I guess if you added the weapon with the console, attacked someone, and rolled a crit, your game might crash? Or maybe nothing would happen, I'm not sure how that particular interaction works out. *EDIT: just tested this, no crash* As it happens, you will get the same error converting the esp because Bethesda goofed on the CRDT conversion and it doesn't work. You have to use CK fixes to patch it.

 

So tl:dr, converting this esp to form 44 doesn't change anything. 

 

I have no idea how DAR could be related to form 43/44 crashes, it's an skse plugin and most DAR mods are just animations and text files. There isn't even an esp in there. I will repeat myself and say again that Bethesda has many form 43 files in their esms for SE, so if they caused crashes literally everyone would experience them all the time. 

 

Converting the plugin exposes you to bugs in the CK, so don't do it at all without CK fixes. Also it will strip any non-esm master files unless you have the proper setup, which WILL cause crashes. As I said in the first place, there is no reason to convert plugins unless you know what you are doing and you have a specific reason to do so.

Edited July 27, 2022 by bnub345