Naked Defeat SE

[Rosvinar]

12 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

well, the mod works smoothly for me and many others, so the problem is with your game.

I m always trying to improve it still, but there is only so much I can do.

when you need ESC or console to get progress its most likely your game is just overloaded with script heavy mods or just heavy in general. 
fresh install -> does nothing
reduced amount of stress from them -> how? do you even know what causes the stress in the first place?
SkySA? I dont know that.

 

only reliable thing you can do is remove mods until things improve. 
Complex mods like Naked Defeat are usually a good indicator on how well a modded game is working in general.

For me it were mods like Slaverun or POP that "signaled" me that my Load Order was bloated...  and then I learned to make choices instead of just smashing all mods in there at once. 

just going to chip in here with a massive paragraph of text.
 

as a pointer to everyone. ND itself whilst not being perfect (please correct me if im wrong). Is the work of one person so there are bound to be a couple of glitches.

 

that being said im the proud owner of a brand new too spec pc that i specifically designed for my modded games (in this case skyrim)

 

now the reason im saying this:

 

I’m currently running 1.5.97 SE.

 

my current list contains a vast array of mods from simple texture/mesh overhauls all the way up to animation, gameplay overhauls, movement mechanics and i imagine an unholy amount of background scripts and combat AI changes.

 

sitting at 537 on the loaded mods 189 esp files.

 

I am not having the time out issues alot of people seem to be having, no opening the console hitting ESC... etc.

 

the reason why this is, is because In reality im running very few SL scripts, not overstressing the framework in anyway. 

 

(To put it into context I completely ditched the creature framework and am just sticking to humanoids)

 

and the scripts I am are with tolerance i know my setup can handle.

 

in conclusion what im saying is, on a person by person basis you need to understand the limits of your tech. And work out specifically whats causing timeouts its likely not this mod.

 

if you have thousands of background mods not doing anything but logging scripts maybe that is why ND is running slowly.

alternatively maybe your an individual who runs a very light list perhaps maybe not even an enb/reshade to Reduce impact on graphical Performance, but instead are running dozens of SL mods.

 

SL whilst being the most supported framework isnt exactly the most optimized framework, as a result no matter how quickly Nymra makes ND run. SL will like present issues just due to the nature of the framework...

 

right 5am rant over hope everyone enjoys there day. I’m gonna go sleep...

[Captain_noone]

29 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

well, the mod works smoothly for me and many others, so the problem is with your game.

I m always trying to improve it still, but there is only so much I can do.

when you need ESC or console to get progress its most likely your game is just overloaded with script heavy mods or just heavy in general. 
fresh install -> does nothing
reduced amount of stress from them -> how? do you even know what causes the stress in the first place?
SkySA? I dont know that.

 

only reliable thing you can do is remove mods until things improve. 
Complex mods like Naked Defeat are usually a good indicator on how well a modded game is working in general.

For me it were mods like Slaverun or POP that "signaled" me that my Load Order was bloated...  and then I learned to make choices instead of just smashing all mods in there at once. 

Okay, thank you. Skysa itself is super heavy combat overhaul so I need to choose as you said, keep doing great work with this mod

[The Mighty Lioness]

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

 

do you even look into the logs yourself?

reading and understanding them is an important part of making complex load orders work at all.

 

    [SKI_ConfigManagerInstance (15000802)].SKI_ConfigManager.OnPageSelect() - "SKI_ConfigManager.psc" Line 148
[07/20/2022 - 09:18:04PM] Error: Array index 16 is out of range (0-0)
stack:

 

there seems to be a problem with your Sky UI mod. Make sure you have the latest version installed and nothing overwriting it.

basically try to make the stack from above NOT appear in your log anymore.

 

apart from that: when you need console for game progression it might be you have too many script heavy mods. 

Do I *even* look into the logs myself, no, I'm sorry, that piece of code you just quoted? Yeah I've got no clue what that means. I don't understand this part of modding, I'm trying to use a mod, not read code lol, I guess I was never really told it was necessary to learn all this as well. I'm not contesting that of course, I'm just offering an explanation to my evident lack of knowledge here ?  I didn't get what was going on, I looked at the log and didn't understand what I was looking at, so I came for support, I am still learning and I certainly would never have figured out it had to do with SkyUI of all things so, thank you for this. I will sort it out, thank you for the tips.

[WaterRabbit]

So there a some things I am not quite sure I understand.  For the initial crawling animation, I assume that is just to find level ground?  The MCM timer on this doesn't seem to work for me.  I dropped the default down to 4 seconds, then to 2 seconds.  However, it seems to take somewhere between 1-2 minutes before it moves to the assault stage.  In the time it takes, the character can craw from the Guardian stones to Riverwood.  However, if that happens, then the assaulters then will walk that entire distance.

 

The messages in the upper left corner always indicate the module cannot find the attackers or the last attacker.

The assault stage works as expected, but if it progresses to the whipping stage, it seems to pull the whipper from some place out of nowhere.  For example, at Arcwind Point the character was tied up at the word wall.  However, the whipper was pulled from the top of the tower which should be way beyond the detection radius and wasn't even part of the group that defeated the character.

 

After the character frees herself, it goes back into a crawling animation for another 2 minutes or so, which can occasionally can be shorten by trying to run.

The mod doesn't respect horses.  If the character is on a horse and gets defeated, it is a reload because the mod doesn't try to dismount the character before imposing animations which breaks the animations.

The other problem is it doesn't detect mutual kills very well.  So if the character is defeated but simultaneously kills the last attacker, it tries to get actors even if there isn't a single opponent left in the area.  It then takes about 5 minutes to figure it out.

 

Another problem is that in werewolf form, when feeding and not in combat, with no enemies around (i.e., Gallow's Rock and everyone dead) it will trigger the defeat as well.  I am running Growl so I don't know if the problem is also in the vanilla werewolf stuff.

 

So I am running this on version 1.6.353.08 w/SKSE64 2.1.5.  There is probably something that needs to be tweaked, but I am just making sure this is expect behavior.

[Rosvinar]

1 hour ago, WaterRabbit said:

So there a some things I am not quite sure I understand.  For the initial crawling animation, I assume that is just to find level ground?  The MCM timer on this doesn't seem to work for me.  I dropped the default down to 4 seconds, then to 2 seconds.  However, it seems to take somewhere between 1-2 minutes before it moves to the assault stage.  In the time it takes, the character can craw from the Guardian stones to Riverwood.  However, if that happens, then the assaulters then will walk that entire distance.

 

The messages in the upper left corner always indicate the module cannot find the attackers or the last attacker.

The assault stage works as expected, but if it progresses to the whipping stage, it seems to pull the whipper from some place out of nowhere.  For example, at Arcwind Point the character was tied up at the word wall.  However, the whipper was pulled from the top of the tower which should be way beyond the detection radius and wasn't even part of the group that defeated the character.

 

After the character frees herself, it goes back into a crawling animation for another 2 minutes or so, which can occasionally can be shorten by trying to run.

The mod doesn't respect horses.  If the character is on a horse and gets defeated, it is a reload because the mod doesn't try to dismount the character before imposing animations which breaks the animations.

The other problem is it doesn't detect mutual kills very well.  So if the character is defeated but simultaneously kills the last attacker, it tries to get actors even if there isn't a single opponent left in the area.  It then takes about 5 minutes to figure it out.

 

Another problem is that in werewolf form, when feeding and not in combat, with no enemies around (i.e., Gallow's Rock and everyone dead) it will trigger the defeat as well.  I am running Growl so I don't know if the problem is also in the vanilla werewolf stuff.

 

So I am running this on version 1.6.353.08 w/SKSE64 2.1.5.  There is probably something that needs to be tweaked, but I am just making sure this is expect behavior.

if it helps i explained the reason for the time outs above this comment look up the page a little.

 

as for the detection radius, i swear its configurable in the mcm right?

[WaterRabbit]

2 minutes ago, Rosvinar said:

if it helps i explained the reason for the time outs above this comment look up the page a little.

 

as for the detection radius, i swear its configurable in the mcm right?

 

Yes, SexLab Framework doesn't seem to be that optimized, but scripts not running shouldn't be an issue.  Elephant's Script Latency Tester can give you an idea about script latency.

The detection radius is configurable, but the default outdoor setting is fairly low, so it shouldn't be pulling creatures from that far away.  I did cut the radius down as well and that didn't really seem to make much of a difference.  One of the issues is that opponents that defeat the character return to the normal routines while the crawling animation is running.  So by itself will move them out of the detection radius.

In your description above you don't really give an idea of how long each stage is taking for you.

[Rosvinar]

1 hour ago, WaterRabbit said:

 

Yes, SexLab Framework doesn't seem to be that optimized, but scripts not running shouldn't be an issue.  Elephant's Script Latency Tester can give you an idea about script latency.

The detection radius is configurable, but the default outdoor setting is fairly low, so it shouldn't be pulling creatures from that far away.  I did cut the radius down as well and that didn't really seem to make much of a difference.  One of the issues is that opponents that defeat the character return to the normal routines while the crawling animation is running.  So by itself will move them out of the detection radius.

In your description above you don't really give an idea of how long each stage is taking for you.

I didn't need too? I just say this becuase everything runs fine for me. For context what i mean by that is what i set the time to is what i get. Maybe plus or minus the odd second here and there. But nothing even close to anything anyone seems to have on more bulky setups.

 

how many mods plus animations do you have loaded running through SL. E.g. funnybiz animation pack. Apropos etc.

 

@Nymra, greetings nymra just wanted to ask quickly a while ago you made a script for removing the default SL animations. Are you running this along side ND in your testing. I ask because i am using it for SE (after converting it to form 44) and seemingly dont have these huge timeouts. And if the time outs are being caused by an animation selection issue maybe this is the cause of the two minute wait times, perhaps longer for those with addition packs and longer for those with creature framework?

 

just a theory i thought if whilst writing this.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Rosvinar

[DonQuiWho]

12 hours ago, WaterRabbit said:

 

Yes, SexLab Framework doesn't seem to be that optimized, but scripts not running shouldn't be an issue.  Elephant's Script Latency Tester can give you an idea about script latency.

The detection radius is configurable, but the default outdoor setting is fairly low, so it shouldn't be pulling creatures from that far away.  I did cut the radius down as well and that didn't really seem to make much of a difference.  One of the issues is that opponents that defeat the character return to the normal routines while the crawling animation is running.  So by itself will move them out of the detection radius.

In your description above you don't really give an idea of how long each stage is taking for you.

 

OOIC, is the detection radius based only on x and y?  If it doesn't have any limits on z, then in some places you might even expect Paarthurnax to join in.  Just kidding about him, but you'll get the idea as to why you might get cream pie from the sky ...

[Lucci213]

On 7/24/2022 at 4:46 AM, WaterRabbit said:

For the initial crawling animation, I assume that is just to find level ground?  The MCM timer on this doesn't seem to work for me.  I dropped the default down to 4 seconds, then to 2 seconds.  However, it seems to take somewhere between 1-2 minutes before it moves to the assault stage.  In the time it takes, the character can craw from the Guardian stones to Riverwood.  However, if that happens, then the assaulters then will walk that entire distance.

 

If you're fine occasionally starting a sex scene in unleveled ground, set all the timers to 0. These include:

• Defeat & Sex > Time to find a spot > 0 sec
• Defeat & Sex > Between Sex Idle Time > 0 sec
• Aftermath Options > Time to Escape > 0 sec

The response time becomes almost instant (obviously) but at least it avoids the "extended timers" issue. Also, there's still some lag, like how enemies don't become immediately hostile after escaping furniture but instead takes 1-3 seconds. Something about the "waiting" stages of Naked Defeat is really inconsistent, especially if you're running other script-heavy mods.

 

An alternative solution I can offer to Nymra is to allow movement during the bleedout animation/stage. This way, if a player enters bleedout, they can slowly move (there are in-game animations for Bleedout Crawling) to a favorable position and avoid the wait timers altogether. 

[no_way]

Is there a form 44 esp version available or a guide to convert?  Just looking at the uninstall issue and I'd like to have a form 44 before I add the latest version to my clean save for testing.

[Rosvinar]

The only way to get a form 44 version is to go into Either xedit/CK (I cant remember which one it is) and set it up that way manually.

 

its not to difficult though.

[Nymra]

11 hours ago, no_way said:

Is there a form 44 esp version available or a guide to convert?  Just looking at the uninstall issue and I'd like to have a form 44 before I add the latest version to my clean save for testing.

 

install ND on an isolated profile or a copy of your main profile (easy task on MO2) and test the mod. If you dont like it you can delete the duplicate profile and continue playing with the original. 

[Nymra]

12 hours ago, Lucci213 said:

 

If you're fine occasionally starting a sex scene in unleveled ground, set all the timers to 0. These include:

• Defeat & Sex > Time to find a spot > 0 sec
• Defeat & Sex > Between Sex Idle Time > 0 sec
• Aftermath Options > Time to Escape > 0 sec

The response time becomes almost instant (obviously) but at least it avoids the "extended timers" issue. Also, there's still some lag, like how enemies don't become immediately hostile after escaping furniture but instead takes 1-3 seconds. Something about the "waiting" stages of Naked Defeat is really inconsistent, especially if you're running other script-heavy mods.

 

I m adding some options for ppl to tweak ND for this to work better. basically I m at wits end what I can do from my side so I offer some customization options to possibily pinpoint the problem better or allow ppl to circumvent the issue. 

currently my point still stands: if the timers are off, the problem is a bad or bloated load order and an overloaded papyrus engine (also a single mod can be responsible. for example "barefoot realism" was the cause of MANY of my problems years ago until I accidently identified it as problematic. 

 

12 hours ago, Lucci213 said:

An alternative solution I can offer to Nymra is to allow movement during the bleedout animation/stage. This way, if a player enters bleedout, they can slowly move (there are in-game animations for Bleedout Crawling) to a favorable position and avoid the wait timers altogether. 

its ALOT more complicated than this... 
also it is not really the problem. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Nymra

[Nymra]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:55 AM, Rosvinar said:

I didn't need too? I just say this becuase everything runs fine for me. For context what i mean by that is what i set the time to is what i get. Maybe plus or minus the odd second here and there. But nothing even close to anything anyone seems to have on more bulky setups.

 

how many mods plus animations do you have loaded running through SL. E.g. funnybiz animation pack. Apropos etc.

 

@Nymra, greetings nymra just wanted to ask quickly a while ago you made a script for removing the default SL animations. Are you running this along side ND in your testing. I ask because i am using it for SE (after converting it to form 44) and seemingly dont have these huge timeouts. And if the time outs are being caused by an animation selection issue maybe this is the cause of the two minute wait times, perhaps longer for those with addition packs and longer for those with creature framework?

 

just a theory i thought if whilst writing this.

 

completly unrelated problem. 

 

the only thing that the script affects is sexlab. if anything it should make the startup time faster even, but who knows. 

I dont see any possible connection to the timer issues tho, since sexlab is only called when the timers are NOT running in the first place ^^

[Nymra]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:52 PM, Rosvinar said:

if it helps i explained the reason for the time outs above this comment look up the page a little.

 

as for the detection radius, i swear its configurable in the mcm right?

 

detection radius is unrealted to the whipper issue. 

 

this is also a known issue and I m looking for a "fix". 
also I dont see it as a pressing issue since it is a very minor issue and just causes trouble with "immersion" levels of ppl. And I will never even try to make everybody happy because immersion is a very subjective thing

[Nymra]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:01 AM, WaterRabbit said:

 

Yes, SexLab Framework doesn't seem to be that optimized, but scripts not running shouldn't be an issue.  Elephant's Script Latency Tester can give you an idea about script latency.

The detection radius is configurable, but the default outdoor setting is fairly low, so it shouldn't be pulling creatures from that far away.  I did cut the radius down as well and that didn't really seem to make much of a difference.  One of the issues is that opponents that defeat the character return to the normal routines while the crawling animation is running.  So by itself will move them out of the detection radius.

In your description above you don't really give an idea of how long each stage is taking for you.

 

I heard different things about the latency tester and after years of trying things like this the only thing that really can "test" stuff is the user itself.
if the timer works on my profile and not on yours, the problem is with your profile, not with the timer. and no matter what latency testers say, it does not change the fact
 

I m also working on a way to "modify" the timers so that maybe they become more accurate even under... difficult circumstances. no guarantee it works but its a thing that I want to try still. 

[Nymra]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:46 PM, WaterRabbit said:

So there a some things I am not quite sure I understand.  For the initial crawling animation, I assume that is just to find level ground?  The MCM timer on this doesn't seem to work for me.  I dropped the default down to 4 seconds, then to 2 seconds.  However, it seems to take somewhere between 1-2 minutes before it moves to the assault stage.  In the time it takes, the character can craw from the Guardian stones to Riverwood.  However, if that happens, then the assaulters then will walk that entire distance.

 

need papyrus.log

also maybe bloated load order or bad mod causing papyrus to lag.

 

On 7/23/2022 at 10:46 PM, WaterRabbit said:

The messages in the upper left corner always indicate the module cannot find the attackers or the last attacker.

 

need papyrus.log

 

On 7/23/2022 at 10:46 PM, WaterRabbit said:

The assault stage works as expected, but if it progresses to the whipping stage, it seems to pull the whipper from some place out of nowhere.  For example, at Arcwind Point the character was tied up at the word wall.  However, the whipper was pulled from the top of the tower which should be way beyond the detection radius and wasn't even part of the group that defeated the character.

known "issue" and fixing it has low priority

 

On 7/23/2022 at 10:46 PM, WaterRabbit said:

 

After the character frees herself, it goes back into a crawling animation for another 2 minutes or so, which can occasionally can be shorten by trying to run.

 

 

maybe bloated load order or bad mod causing papyrus to lag.

 

On 7/23/2022 at 10:46 PM, WaterRabbit said:

The mod doesn't respect horses.  If the character is on a horse and gets defeated, it is a reload because the mod doesn't try to dismount the character before imposing animations which breaks the animations.

 

I m not sure if there can be a perfect solution for this. I thought there is a check for this already in the mod but it might not be helpfull in some circumstances.
I ll double check and see if I can improve this. Thx. 

 

On 7/23/2022 at 10:46 PM, WaterRabbit said:

The other problem is it doesn't detect mutual kills very well.  So if the character is defeated but simultaneously kills the last attacker, it tries to get actors even if there isn't a single opponent left in the area.  It then takes about 5 minutes to figure it out.

 

maybe bloated load order or bad mod causing papyrus to lag.

for me in these cases the mod terminates in under a minute (which is ok since your PC was downed anyway... be happy that you are not dead? ^^)

 

On 7/23/2022 at 10:46 PM, WaterRabbit said:

 

Another problem is that in werewolf form, when feeding and not in combat, with no enemies around (i.e., Gallow's Rock and everyone dead) it will trigger the defeat as well.  I am running Growl so I don't know if the problem is also in the vanilla werewolf stuff.

 

well... you see for yourself.

try without "growl" (whatever it is) and see if it fixes the problem. if not, come back here.

also a papyrus log might help since I have no idea how my mod can trigger in these situations...

(or do you have "poisoned potions" enabled? 

 

[crajjjj]

2 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

need papyrus.log

also maybe bloated load order or bad mod causing papyrus to lag.

 

 

need papyrus.log

 

known "issue" and fixing it has low priority

 

 

maybe bloated load order or bad mod causing papyrus to lag.

 

 

I m not sure if there can be a perfect solution for this. I thought there is a check for this already in the mod but it might not be helpfull in some circumstances.
I ll double check and see if I can improve this. Thx. 

 

 

maybe bloated load order or bad mod causing papyrus to lag.

for me in these cases the mod terminates in under a minute (which is ok since your PC was downed anyway... be happy that you are not dead? ^^)

 

 

well... you see for yourself.

try without "growl" (whatever it is) and see if it fixes the problem. if not, come back here.

also a papyrus log might help since I have no idea how my mod can trigger in these situations...

(or do you have "poisoned potions" enabled? 

 

I was also curious about crawling duration. Had seen it as well and it was not clear how long it should take because nobody was around. Fixed by run/jumping (probably). 

 

+ If you can do something with attackers ai would be cool. Was defeated by traveling bandits and they just walked away afterwards)) 

[Rosvinar]

2 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

completly unrelated problem. 

 

the only thing that the script affects is sexlab. if anything it should make the startup time faster even, but who knows. 

I dont see any possible connection to the timer issues tho, since sexlab is only called when the timers are NOT running in the first place ^^

ah ok, fair enough.

 

just seemed funny when ever i have your old LE mod installed that removes the default animations from sexlab it seems to run more smoothly on SE. Maybe when i re-did the form version something else got changed that I'm unaware of?

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, crajjjj said:

I was also curious about crawling duration. Had seen it as well and it was not clear how long it should take because nobody was around. Fixed by run/jumping (probably). 

 

if nobody is around, currently the "crawl to spot" still applies.
I want to change that in the future tho to speed things up.
Escape crawl is already cancelled when nobody is around. (or maybe it is in my version but not yet released, I sometimes lose track) 

 

1 hour ago, crajjjj said:

+ If you can do something with attackers ai would be cool. Was defeated by traveling bandits and they just walked away afterwards)) 

 

also planned, but I suck with packages (actually I have no fucking idea how to use them correctly, I currently only use them to prevent other packages to play on my followers.

I want the Attackers to get Idle/sandbox packages if they have no sex scene or until the PC can escape. 
More is also planned, I want to see if I can patch Specator Crowds Ultra to work with Naked Defeats Scenes and Struggle game. While I m afraid in the end I ll have to make my own stuff  again

 

actually this part is the biggest obstacle that I have for the creation of my local slavery ("Naked Slavery") feature. 


 

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, Rosvinar said:

ah ok, fair enough.

 

just seemed funny when ever i have your old LE mod installed that removes the default animations from sexlab it seems to run more smoothly on SE. Maybe when i re-did the form version something else got changed that I'm unaware of?

 

wait, I cannot follow.

You installed the Sexlab ANimation Remover on SE and it made Naked Defeat run faster? (Like the crawl timer?)
 

And/Or did you also change the Naked Defeat ESP form to 44?! 

[Rosvinar]

6 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

wait, I cannot follow.

You installed the Sexlab ANimation Remover on SE and it made Naked Defeat run faster? (Like the crawl timer?)
 

And/Or did you also change the Naked Defeat ESP form to 44?! 

When I did my reinstall I changed some form 43 mods to form 44, BOTH naked defeat and Sexlab animation remover were among these and were changed to form 44.
(at least I think I did it correctly, all I know is that they both work and run seemingly without any issues).

Since using you animation remover ND has been running perfectly fine for me on SE, ND is the only Gameplay mod i have running through SL the only other mods are just addons, such as spank that ass, slave tats, etc.

I have no creature framework and the only animation packages I use through SL are the ones specifically for ND. (personal choice, obviously).

As a result of me running a very minimal SL package and then reducing the total animations to what i can only assume is perhaps maybe a fifth of the original amount, my theory is this is why my ND is running ok.

the crawl animation time is the same, or near enough the same as whatever i set it as. (even if its not perfect the difference is not noticable).
and the wait timer for the assults is also running ok. again whatever i set this setting to is near enough the amount of time i spend waiting.

The only issues I'm have with ND at the minute, are issue i know are self inflicted due to other mods interfering with either movement or animations.

I had a bug originally with FNIS sexy moves. but I remedied that by switching my characters walking animations over to DAR. 

[Rosvinar]

If it helps I can send a papyrus log when I eventually get back. but I'm abroad and working currently so I wont get back to playing ESV for another few weeks.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Rosvinar

[Nymra]

16 minutes ago, Rosvinar said:

If it helps I can send a papyrus log when I eventually get back. but I'm abroad and working currently so I wont get back to playing ESV for another few weeks.

 

I will take some time for a full answer, just very curious how you changed the ESP form from 43 to 44? 
is there a guide you used? 
I thought its only possible manually by rebuilding it in xEdit bit by bit

[Rosvinar]

This is the guide I used.