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Well, here we go again...


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Edit: TLDR my Sims lost autonomy and stood around doing nothing. Uninstalled KW 409 and it fixed the game. Reinstalled KW and things are working again for now.

 

Now I remember why I only play for a month and then take five years off. Some game breaking bug suddenly appears out of nowhere and I spend days troubleshooting and eventually just say "FUCK. THIS. GAME." and give up.

 

This has happened three times  since I started playing again and it's really making the whole experience unenjoyable and completely frustrating.

 

What is happening this time is that free will/autonomy just seems to break. My sims just stand there doing nothing while their needs go completely red. They still have thought bubbles and they occasionally move a few feet one way or the other.

 

I tried just watching for a whole sim day and eventually they will go to the bathroom or make a meal, but only long after those needs are totally in the red. Then after they're done they go back to doing nothing. Like after my starving sim (who was also filthy, exhausted, etc...) finally made and ate a meal, she just sat there in the chair forever. They will answer the phone when it rings, and they'll talk but after they hang up they go back to acting like zombies.

 

So I thought I would check out the rest of town and everyone is doing the same thing. Every household, everyone at a public lot, all the Sims in town stand around doing nothing. No one is doing any activity or socializing. It's like that if I just observe other sims while controlling one family and using Master Controller to open other houses, or if I switch to another family.

 

I run the usual suite of Nrass stuff like everyone else and nothing I do fixes the problem. I tried resetting the whole town and that did nothing. I moved back to an old save from a few days earlier and the issue reappeared after three sim days. I started a completely new game and in a few sim weeks the same shit happened.

 

I searched all over the interwebs and I found a lot of people with the same/very similar issue and most never found a solution, and the ones who did found a solution that didn't apply to my game, such as the big dogs/bathtubs bug. I don't have a dog or even a bathtub, my family consists of a single sim in a tiny home. Another "solution" was a better computer which also doesn't apply. My computer is not a crazy gaming rig but it's from 2020 and runs the game at full everything no problem, no lag, no nothing. I turned everything down anyway just to see if it made a difference and it doesn't.

 

I'm running all the expansion packs, a couple of stuff packs, and KW 409. Also most of the Nrass mods minus the stuff that doesn't play well with KW, and with my settings on the other stuff set up as recommended, disable dereferencing etc. Various other things, skins, clothes, etc. My mods folder is only about 3GB and everything was tested piece by piece as it went in, with no apparent issues.

 

The only thing that I think maybe could be a problem is Bastport2 which I installed recently. When I run Delphy's dashboard it shows some of the .package files that came with Bastport as conflicting with each other. I was going to try putting my save into a brand newly created Sims 3 folder with no Bastport2 but I haven't tried yet, not that I believe that is going to work anyway. My current save is not in Bastport. It's in the regular EA Starlight Shores.

 

Anyway, I'm just really bummed out about the whole thing. I'm supposed to be having fun but this game is stressing me out. All I do is worry that the game will suddenly break. Every time I save I don't know if it will take ten seconds or if that little circle thingy is just gonna spin around forever. I never know if the game will shutdown properly or if the screen will just go black with the circle thingy spinning forever while the Sims theme song plays and I have to end task with the control panel. I don't have to keep going because I know you guys and girls know the deal as well as anybody who has attempted to play this game for any length of time.

 

Hopefully it's something I'm overlooking and the fix is something simple that doesn't involve deleting everything and starting over again and again. I'm not getting my hopes up though.

 

I would appreciate any advice that anyone might have for me and I thank you in advance.

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So I did some troubleshooting and, long story short (sorry about that first post, boy is it a doozy!!!), it was definitely KW. I went through the uninstallation procedure, saved, exited, removed KW from my mods folder, and started up again and now everything is working fine with the "broken" save.

 

That's a bummer because I can't play without KW now that I've tried it. I guess I'll reinstall it and cross my fingers and hope the problem doesn't resurface.

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40 minutes ago, Clydie said:

Did you try to reset the whole town with NRAAS Master Controler ? Often that helps !

Yes I reset everything and it didn't fix the problem. I also reset everything immediately before uninstalling KW. Everything works after that now. I tried a number of combinations of "keep this, remove that" and "remove this, keep that" and the issue seems to be with KW at least as far as I can tell at the moment. 

 

I have yet to reinstall KW and when I do I don't know how long it will work before breaking again. Maybe it's something that I can reset within game without having to uninstall KW. Oh well I'll have to wait and see I guess.

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4 hours ago, blooblee said:

it was definitely KW

KW is and isn't the cause of a great many game issues. As is standard procedure, remove everything EXCEPT KW and see what happens. It's been explained that multiple mod interactions will create a lot of different issues.

 

True that unfortunately, Oniki saw fit to do things that step on the toes of several Nraas mods, and probably quite a few others, as her Highlander "There can be only one" attitude toward other mods seems to have controlled her process, however, many people run many mods and don't have the issue you are having... so as no one has a clue what mods other than KW and some unspecified Nraas mods (the usual suite says absolutely nothing... I have 29 or so Nraas mods running), no one can really do much to help you. As I said, I ran into a conflict not picked up by Dashboard of 2 xml mods for vampires that caused Plumbot motives to go blank. One more time... many mods rewrite xml's. Often, the same xml's are rewritten by several modders, and may not show in dashboard. 

 

Bastport 2 is a beautiful city to play with a lot of secret places and A LOT of store content. And yes... it has internal conflicts that I still haven't gotten around to finding all of them yet (doubles mostly), but will say it is loaded in my game (with the internal conflicts) and KW 409, and I still don't have the same issue you are having. My biggest issue currently is simply Oniki's coding that has my sim husband and wife woohoo 5 times, and 1 hr later, he has a desperate husband moodlet.

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16 minutes ago, LadySmoks said:

 husband and wife woohoo 5 times, and 1 hr later, he has a desperate husband moodlet.

I have that one too but the other way around.

 

Anyway the autonomy issue is sorted for now. KW is the problem because Nrass came first and the game is basically unplayable without at least a few of them.  At least that's how I'm looking at it. Having said that I don't think I could play without KW anymore either.



In another week I'll be bored either way and the game will go back in the drawer for a while. Summer is almost here and I'm going to try to live real life a little bit.

 

 

 

 

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Is NRaas Story progression being used?

 

I have read many times from 'amateur' sources saying it conflicts with KW.

 

I use it religiously! Both SP and KW together. I don't use any of the 'plug-ins' for SP though. Instead I use it as a 'tuning' module to control what age group (caste) does what, disable pregnancy and to  S L O W  down the way people interact with the world (set to a crawl) because I also have NRaas Relativity set to slower.

 

I ask because if you DON'T use Story Progression, I suggest you try it.

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31 minutes ago, landess said:

 I ask because if you DON'T use Story Progression, I suggest you try it.

Yes of course, couldn't play without it. Like you I use the caste system along with some other things I can't remember right now. It would probably be easier to tell you which Nraas mods I don't use because I use most of them. Off the top of my head story progression, master controller, relativity, selector, register, consigner, decensor, error trap, overwatch, selector, traffic, probably a few more.

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23 minutes ago, blooblee said:

probably a few more

Wondering now if you have shooless and sleep freedom? I think one or both are verified conflicts that cause issues, and aren't needed as they are 2 of those things that KW took over.

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1 hour ago, LadySmoks said:

Wondering now if you have shooless and sleep freedom? I think one or both are verified conflicts that cause issues, and aren't needed as they are 2 of those things that KW took over.

I had them but took them out before installing KW because of those conflict issues which I read about. There was one or two more I took out as well I think. Sorry I'm not being more accurate about which mods I have, I'm not at home at the moment and I can't remember exactly. I'll put up the full list when I get home.

 

Edit: Here's the list.

 

Consigner
Debug Enabler
Decensor
Error Trap
Error Trap tuning Disable Dereferencing
Master Controller
Master Controller Cheats
Master Controller expanded tattoo
Master Controller Integration
Master Controller Progression
Mover
NoCD
Onceread
Overwatch
Porter
Portrait Panel
Portrait Panel PopUpMenuStyle
Register
Relationship Panel
Relativity
Retuner
Second image
Selector
Story Progression
Story Progression Name List Ultimate Names
Story Progression Population
Story Progression Relationship
Tempest
Traffic
Traveller

 

To be perfectly honest I don't know exactly what a few of those things do, I just have them in there "just in case" I discover I need them somewhere down the line. I haven't heard of any conflicts with KW so I left all that stuff in.

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2 hours ago, blooblee said:

Here's the list.

A couple I don't use, disable dereferencing, portrait pop up menu... Don't think I bothered with that. So again, it may be another mod that is causing your problem, as the Nraas mods you have don't seem to be ones that have issues with KW.

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8 minutes ago, LadySmoks said:

disable dereferencing

 

There's been talk about this - I continue to use it without issue. There are a few more listed than I myself have installed, but then for the most part, I took the time to read what they do to see if I would actually use them instead of bloating my game unnecessarily.

 

I know there's a mod that fixes the notification panel by adding back the missing portrait. I don't think it's NRaas though.

 

I haven't bother to ask @blooblee - Have you tried cleaning your saves? If not, try Kuree's Save Cleaner. It's works for some, not for other's (no clue why). If it doesn't work for you - LadySmoks may have info on using S3PE (Sims 3 Package Editor) to manually do it.

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15 minutes ago, LadySmoks said:

 it may be another mod that is causing your problem

It very well could be but this bug is a weird one and takes some time to pop up so realistically I just can't go through everything manually. There's not enough time in a day or even a week for me to do all of that.

 

Was it KW or Nraas or something else? I guess it depends on how you look at it. Did the bug disappear after I uninstalled KW? Yes it did, so take what you will from that.   It's not an ideal solution but at least I don't lose the whole save. I do lose all KW related stuff and have to start over in that respect.

 

It's been two sim days now and everything is still good. I cheated to raise some KW skills back to where they were before with some of my sims but there's stuff I haven't figured out how to get back. 

 

For example, my guy spent literally his ENTIRE YOUNG ADULT/ADULT LIFE  breeding a huge crop of Perfect Quality cannabis, starting from a single Putrid seed bought on the computer. He still has his retirement money from his harvest, and he finally bought the house on the beach he had been promising his wife Deborah for so long, so not all is lost, but he doesn't have even a single Perfect Quality seed left to pass on to his children. Kind of a bummer.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, landess said:

 

I haven't bother to ask @blooblee - Have you tried cleaning your saves? If not, try Kuree's Save Cleaner. It's works for some, not for other's (no clue why). If it doesn't work for you - LadySmoks may have info on using S3PE (Sims 3 Package Editor) to manually do it.

Yes I tried Kuree's Save Cleaner. Shrunk my save a bit but the problem was still there.

 

On a possibly or maybe not related note, a whole gang of my neighborhood teenagers have old man hair. It's hilarious but really weird. This game always has a surprise for me.

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8 minutes ago, blooblee said:

Perfect Quality

Dunno if it'd work with the borked way KW adds in other items, I personally don't deal with the KW drugs so can't test, but with all other growable crops you can use NRaas Debug Enabler to change the quality.  Theoretically, KW crops should work the same, but, well... there's that long commented on feud between the 2 mods original devs.  But it might be worth a shot.

 

It'd be something like this:

click on bush -> nraas -> debug enabler -> options: garden bush (or whatever that plant is set to be) -> set quality -> perfect

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11 minutes ago, blooblee said:

old man hair

That sounds as if you have some CC with "bad" age settings.

 

As for the initial issue... I tried 409, noticed a shit-ton of issues that weren't there in 408. Went all the way back to 378 for a while, considered dropping a couple versions to the 375 tons here praise, but well... I did try out 325, and I'm also one of the very few who never had issues with 399.  Had a ton of issues with (I think it was) 400, 401, and 402, those seemed to be resolved by 404, but now 409 has "redone" a lot of stuff, which should always be translated as "warning: probably broke shit for fun" when a developer says they "rewrote" part of anything.

 

About all any of us can do is to give suggestions on things you can try.  Sadly, you've kinda gotta actually put in the time to find and fix your issues.  What? Don't want to spend 80 hours in a single week to fix the mess your game has become? Why not? I did. Everyone is staying the fuck home and many aren't working at all, so you should have plenty of time. No? Well... joining the pissed off unemployed group isn't fun... stay working, if you are.

 

Autonomy adjusters are also tuning mods. So maybe try removing anything that you have that is a tuning mod.

 

Playing anything but an unmodded game will require, after a while, starting from scratch and slowly adding in each and every single mod one at a time and testing that things still work... or, well, dozen at a time.  Other option is to use a merge sort technique.  Take half your mods, put them in with KW, did it break?  Yes?  Start over with half of those.  If it didn't start over with the other half. Continue until you have figured out which broke things.

 

But... and much apologies, didn't read your novel. I did see you tried the Sims3Dashboard and that it told you you have conflicts.  Fix those!!!!!!!!!!!!  Conflicts cause issues.  (From a tech side:  if A & B conflict, some times you might get "A", sometimes "B".  You have no way of knowing which will be used at any one time.  "A" might be the thing that's breaking you, but now you're seeing "B" which is fine.)  Want parts of both?  Welcome to hell... *cough* I mean... welcome to the world of needing to learn how to create your own mods. It's not that bad of a world to be in...

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2 hours ago, blooblee said:

There's not enough time in a day or even a week for me to do all of that.

 

Thought I'd mention the old 1/2 and 1/2 system of finding bad CC.

 

Take out 1/2 the mods and put them in a folder. Try the game. if it has problems still, then split that 1/2 again and move those to a new folder. Try again. See how it works? Just remember that every 'group' of mods you remove need to be tested as well, but using this method can eliminate the bulk as long as you don't have LOTS of bad CC which in a bad luck scenario would be split among all the piles you separate.

 

> Sorry to agree with jdw6 on this one, but games in the last 10+ years have enough problems of their own. Once you start to add mods, you need to be prudent and diligent. Making back ups of files is being smart as you are putting the game at risk by using them. You're also putting faith in a lot of people whom make mods, but that doesn't mean these people always know what they're doing. Add in patch levels and mods fighting over scripts and the whole thing can go downhill pretty fast.

 

So in short, don't mod unless you're ready to put in the time. That includes knowledge of tools to help the process, and tricks like the 1/2 and 1/2 method I mention above. As you're here seeking advice, it would seem you are willing to put in the time. Now you just need patience.

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6 hours ago, landess said:

So in short, don't mod unless you're ready to put in the time. That includes knowledge of tools to help the process, and tricks like the 1/2 and 1/2 method I mention above. As you're here seeking advice, it would seem you are willing to put in the time. Now you just need patience.

I tested everything as it went in the mods folder one (or sometimes more) at a time, but this was before KW. KW or other mods or not, this game is work. I mean, the thing has been broken since launch and EA never fixed it.

 

This bug takes sim weeks to pop up. I'm a patient person, but I'm not THAT patient. If I had to test everything even a dozen mods at a time it would take forever, playing the game and waiting for this particular bug to rear it's head. It would be different if it was something obvious that stopped the game from booting or lagged the hell out of everything but this one's not like that.

 

I love the game but I can't spend all my time troubleshooting. Sometimes I just want to relax and play, and when things become more trouble than they're worth I'll just put it down for a while until I have the patience or desire to put in the work. Life is short and I have about a half a dozen real-life projects on the go at the moment so I need to make choices.

 

I appreciate all the advice and I get that there's only so much that can be done, and that I'll have to do it myself.

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I still have the broken saves so I'll remove everything except KW and see if the problem is still there.

 

Just realized I don't have to wait around for sim weeks because I have saves with the bug right there already. It won't take forever and I don't really have too many mods anyway. Don't know what I was thinking. I think I smoke too much.

 

I guess I'll try.

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I removed everything except KW 409 and fired up the broken save and it's still broken. There's nothing left for it to conflict with at this point so I don't know.

 

So to sum up, removing KW but keeping everything else fixed it, removing everything else but keeping KW and it's still broken.

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3 hours ago, blooblee said:

I don't know

 

 Yeah, I feel you but you say broken save. Have you tried a new game? You can always save sims, lots, etc. to the library and place them back into a new game (I do this once I've played a save so long it just isn't viable to play) You lose relationships, but the Sims keep jobs and everything. I HAD to do this with Bridgeport as the save was going on 'over 5 years'. I was surprised when I started a new game and began replacing households, how many sims had moved around.

 

Go ahead, leave KW out, and load up that save - move what you want to keep to the library and start a new game and move them back in. If you customized community lots as I did, save those too, and replace. Use cheats if you have to on community buildings. MoveObjects ON is a powerful tool. This is a good time to go through all the households and check things like their inventory and get rid of stuff that bloats the game.

 

I've been using KW since v0.2.8 and I've learned a LOT about making and keeping my game as stable as possible. So from my chair KW works. It may not be perfect but I keep using it. If it doesn't work for you, then realize it's not the mod or mine wouldn't work either . . . .

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41 minutes ago, landess said:

 

 Yeah, I feel you but you say broken save. Have you tried a new game? You can always save sims, lots, etc. to the library and place them back into a new game (I do this once I've played a save so long it just isn't viable to play) You lose relationships, but the Sims keep jobs and everything. I HAD to do this with Bridgeport as the save was going on 'over 5 years'. I was surprised when I started a new game and began replacing households, how many sims had moved around.

 

Go ahead, leave KW out, and load up that save - move what you want to keep to the library and start a new game and move them back in. If you customized community lots as I did, save those too, and replace. Use cheats if you have to on community buildings. MoveObjects ON is a powerful tool. This is a good time to go through all the households and check things like their inventory and get rid of stuff that bloats the game.

 

I've been using KW since v0.2.8 and I've learned a LOT about making and keeping my game as stable as possible. So from my chair KW works. It may not be perfect but I keep using it. If it doesn't work for you, then realize it's not the mod or mine wouldn't work either . . . .

I'm still playing on (a copy of) the save, and still using KW. Uninstalling KW on that save fixed the bug. Then I reinstalled KW to the same save and things work again for now at least. I lost any KW related progress but everything else is okay.

 

Thing is I already did what you said. The first time the bug appeared I simply reverted to an earlier save. When it happened again I started a new save with my old sims that I saved and then the bug appeared one more time. Then I uninstalled/reinstalled KW which brings us to where we are now.

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17 hours ago, blooblee said:

my guy spent literally his ENTIRE YOUNG ADULT/ADULT LIFE  breeding a huge crop of Perfect Quality cannabis

This is where you lose me. You made it seem that you are new to KW, or it's a new issue you are having, yet now say that you played (obviously with KW to have a pot farm) through a sim's entire life, but now have these problems, which begs the question... What did YOU change or add to your game that caused the current conflicts? Or did you suffer through these issues all that time and only now try to figure out why?

 

But, it seems to me that you changed something, either added mods, changed KW versions, something.

 

You say when you have KW and nothing else, it works. So, KW isn't broken, and going back to what landess and I have been trying to tell you, it only takes one mod to bugger the works. Your set up may be fine with KW and every other mod except one, but if you don't wish to put in the time to find it, not much can be done.

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3 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

This is where you lose me. You made it seem that you are new to KW, or it's a new issue you are having, yet now say that you played (obviously with KW to have a pot farm) through a sim's entire life, but now have these problems, which begs the question... What did YOU change or add to your game that caused the current conflicts? Or did you suffer through these issues all that time and only now try to figure out why?

 

But, it seems to me that you changed something, either added mods, changed KW versions, something.

 

You say when you have KW and nothing else, it works. So, KW isn't broken, and going back to what landess and I have been trying to tell you, it only takes one mod to bugger the works. Your set up may be fine with KW and every other mod except one, but if you don't wish to put in the time to find it, not much can be done.

I've had KW since I signed up here which was five weeks ago. A normal sim lifespan is not terribly long. This issue started a few days ago.

 

Actually I said the opposite. With only KW and nothing else it DOESN'T work. With everything else an no KW it works. No need for any further testing. Obviously this is a KW bug. Or am I missing something? It doesn't work with just KW already so why would I start adding stuff to test? If it's already broken I don't need to keep trying to break it. That would tell me nothing. When I remove just KW the save works again.

 

I was prepared to go through everything but after test #1, which was to remove everything except KW and try the save, there was no need.

 

Both saves that got broken were fresh saves with 409 no upgrades from previous versions.

 

I fixed the save by uninstalling KW. Then I reinstalled it. Now EVERYTHING works for now at least.

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2 hours ago, blooblee said:

Obviously this is a KW bug.

If you say so. I don't have that bug... landess doesn't have that bug... we both have 409, but apparently WE are missing something or doing something wrong that we don't have this obvious KW bug you speak of? Not much more I can do here.

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