CONFIRMED: Expansion Pack Announcement NEXT WEEK! ?

[Scorpio]

20 hours ago, khyan69 said:

what I see is the fact they are removing gameplay features from an already empty game.

Maybe they will replace it with something else...

ROFLMAO 

[Khlas]

1 hour ago, Scorpio said:

Maybe they will replace it with something else...

ROFLMAO 

This is asking too much for these lazy devs or whatever  

[Cinnamonsugar112]

Well... I know I would find a thread here.

Sims did remove the bowing thing and all pattern that looks like rising Sun pattern. The Pattern showed in the trailer was a handfan pattern. So no rising sun. No need to remove, or? Especially when you look into S.Korean advertisment. There they use it a lot, in gangangstyle video of psy they use it in a banner which hangs on a plane. They use it in school badges. So why is it now offended?

The bowing thing is something what S.Korean do in Japan at the Koma shrine. Also normally no thing to remove.
It is a culture thing to do at a shrine. It was there a long time befor WW2.
 

If they now look into a part of history of a religion/culture/country and remove things, than they should remove a ton of stuff out of sims. Trains, yellow stars, jungle adventure, harvest fest, hijabs, elephants, chanukkia (those chandelier of jewish ppl), the military career and a lot of more.

They complain that they are the victims, and I wasn't there at WW2, so i don't have a meaning about this. I only know that they apologied for it and paid a lot of money. (USA made care that it happend) But everytime you asked them what S.Korean did to Vietnam 1968, they don't respond.
Since 2012 S.Korean did everything do disrespect Japan. In 2018 they sued 4 japanese companies to pay money to S.Korean ppl (again) and Japanese Goverment took S.Korean of the list of favorite trading partners. Since then S.Korean ripp of old wounds, those this kind of stuff and can't let the past rest in peace. I'm German, and even I read in trading newspaper that S.Korean did a lot of things to disrespect Japan.

Now even outsider get involved in those politics. There is a petition with nearly thousand subscriber that it should added back in, that they should use a toggle to change it from bowing into starring on it like a painting.

I'm a culture person, I like different culture, even if I'm travelling i inform me about the culture, whats ok and what not, I used to learn at least say Hello, Bye, Thank you, I need help in the language of the country. I don't like the Idea of cut some culture off, just because some complain about something thats long in the past. But thats my opinion.

 

I'm here now to ask if there is maybe some modder who might will bring the animation, the interaction of bowing at a shrine into live?
 

[carlfatal]

3 hours ago, Cinnamonsugar112 said:

There they use it a lot, in gangangstyle video of psy they use it in a banner which hangs on a plane. They use it in school badges. So why is it now offended?

Maybe cause Psy does use it in a very ironic sense? Did you ever hear to the words of his songs?

 

The "bowing thing" is related to Shintoism. Nothing more, nothing less. And indeed, this is not the first time, that the devs walked on a path of stereotyped idiotism, and it is also not the first time, they showed a lack of respect in general. But where there is no plaintiff, there is no judge.

Now some people did say, that they are angered about the outcome of such an ignorant behavior. That is their right, and more people should use their rights against big companies and their development studios, that believe not only to own the world but to rule everything. Cause no, they don´t.

 

And whatever happens between Japan and Korea is not related to the fact, that an US-American game studio acted here like an imperious master towards subordinates by using brainlessly other people´s cultural identities for their own business reasons. And so it does not excuse their behavior.

 

3 hours ago, Cinnamonsugar112 said:

I like different culture, even if I'm travelling i inform me about the culture, whats ok and what not, I used to learn at least say Hello, Bye, Thank you, I need help in the language of the country. I don't like the Idea of cut some culture off, just because some complain about something thats long in the past. But thats my opinion.

The devs had every possibility to act like that. they didn´t and so this happened. But they did the right thing, to take a step back. I would do the same, if I would offend someone, when I would not want to do so.

 

 

[carlfatal]

@mrhaiya,

I saw exactly this reaction coming a few days ago, when only some Korean players critizised EAxis behavior. But the problem isn´t EAxis only, the problem is the fact, that our current way of economy causes alienation to everyone, as it is using stereotypes to adress products to all possible buyers.

This problem is well known since the late 19th century, but it is something, that never was really part of the discussion. Every economy has an input on the humans psyche, and instead of doing research in that direction, psychology is only used to affect behavior instead of learning how we "function" and how we organize society, and how this alienation influences communities and societies in general.

 

As an example, how this alienation works: For me "Windenburg" is an affront to anyone, who knows about the history and diversity of architecture in Europe during the last 500 years. It is a Disney-like stereotype of half timbered crap, that you will never see anywhere exept in the Sims. And if people play with this, they learn, that history has no value anymore. The outcome is a world, that is a result of design but not of history. But this is a very dangerous lie.

We have a menorah in the Sims 4, but the menorah is not, what means to be Jewish. We have a hijab but this is not, what can tell you anything about the Islam. These are dumb stereotypes, made for fox viewers and sun readers, and they cause nothing good. The devs should know better but they don´t.

 

What they now did with the new addon does not only affect Korean or Japanese people, it can also concern every single member of any culture in East Asia, as it says, that for white people from th US, East Asia only exists as a Disney version of Japan. This is exploitation at it´s worst, to be honest.

[Qalefir]

I remember France in the Sims 3.... and didnt cry about that. No one did. As usual, these are stupid reaction, welcome in 2020, the whole world expresses its neurosis.

[carlfatal]

2 hours ago, RDA said:

I remember France in the Sims 3.... and didnt cry about that. No one did. As usual, these are stupid reaction, welcome in 2020, the whole world expresses its neurosis.

There is a diffference between former colonial societies and societies, that became colonies, isn´t it.

 

This doesn´t change the fact, that respect is something, that nobody seems to have for anybody. But there is a difference between European, white people and other, non white people. And this is, what alwas is part of such a debate, if it occurs.

 

EA is one of the biggest gaming companies, and like I said beofre, EA is in no way respectful towards anybody but it´s own interests. Some may say, that this is not their concern, but people have the right to be concerned, and so they are. This we call civil rights, nothing more, nothing less. And if it is hysteical to use them or not, is nothing I want to discuss. I only state, that we all have civil rights, even towards the disrespectful acting of a company.

[Qalefir]

@carlfatal

 

You confirm what I was saying : you express your neurosis.

 

They just pick a theme for an expansion pack, they are not writing an essay about asian culture and this game won't hurt anyone.

If you disagree with a content (something I can totally understand), dont buy it. Simple.

 

The colonial argument is not valid when we talk about a video games the does not pretend to be accurate about history or culture (because yeah, they are inspire by japanese culture, they do not recreate japanese culture), but one thing : Japan was a colonial society and an empire for a moment (they killed a lot of chinese and korean people btw), and China was one of the strongest empire for a long period of time in History. Just sayin...

[carlfatal]

41 minutes ago, RDA said:

@carlfatal

 

You confirm what I was saying : you express your neurosis.

If you call my insist, that civil rights are existing, and that they exist, cause they are needed, a neurosis...
 

I would call the behavior of our imploded societies in general not neurotic but psychopathologic. That is something, that has a lot to do with the fact, that everything on this world is a ware, including culture, religion, human life in every aspect of its existence, with the alienation, that is part of that kind of economic structure. Nothing to be afraid of, cause that is, what we all are. Even the ones, who complain about single aspects of this whole game called capitalism, don´t see the complexity of the world they live in but feel shame, anger and agressions caused of it´s outcome in general.

 

And to make it clear: I don´t speak of morality here. I am not interested in terms like "good" or "bad" as guidelines for anything.

[Qalefir]

@carlfatal

First thing first, i'm not fluent in english so i dont realise if my speak is offensive or mean in any way. Just telle me if this is the case.

 

From my perspective (the way we see that in France), "civil rights" give you the right to be angry about an idea, to be offended, to not agree with something, to tell that you are not agree. But two things : this one individual opinion, maybe share at some point by other individuals, but there is people who thing that Snowy Escape is ok about culture. I'm sure that some Japanese people, maybe a majority of them, are happy about that expansion pack.

What I understand from what you're saying is that this game should be censored or cancelled because it offends a people.

 

I dont understand your point arround psychopathology in society.

[carlfatal]

1 hour ago, RDA said:

@carlfatal

First thing first, i'm not fluent in english so i dont realise if my speak is offensive or mean in any way. Just telle me if this is the case.

 

From my perspective (the way we see that in France), "civil rights" give you the right to be angry about an idea, to be offended, to not agree with something, to tell that you are not agree. But two things : this one individual opinion, maybe share at some point by other individuals, but there is people who thing that Snowy Escape is ok about culture. I'm sure that some Japanese people, maybe a majority of them, are happy about that expansion pack.

What I understand from what you're saying is that this game should be censored or cancelled because it offends a people.

 

I dont understand your point arround psychopathology in society.

First: I don´t feel offended by your words, but thanks for the reaction. And I also hope, that you don´t feel offended by my comment, cause this is not, what I had or have in mind, if I speak here. And I am also no native English speaker, so my way to write about those themes may be missunderstandable too.

 

One thing, that is happening here, is, that EA as a "white" company acts in a way, "white" people often act towards other "non white" people. I am sure, that even the CEOs of EA aren´t aware of that part of their own behavior, if it comes to such things, and I am sure, they don´t want to act in this way, especially not the higher ranks at the Maxis studio. But if people play with stereotypes, and this is, what a game developer has to do, then it can cause problems, problems caused by the fact, that they (the same counts towards all of us) not "write or read an essay" ,before they act. To be able to fight every possible competitor, makes these things more likely. Who needs to act fast on a market, needs to cut out everything, that is not related to his own interests.

And here alienation comes into. If people act but only can use small parts of their own personality, thoughts, believes, to build something with it, then the outcome is strange, and the acting person becomes strange towards him/herself. And cause this alienation is always a total one, as it changes the identity of personalitiy in general by cutting it in pieces, it causes real world reactions, that we didn´t see before (cause we didn´t consider them).

That is, what for example causes structural racism.

 

Back to the game: The Sims as a game series always tried to be inclusive in the best sense, this word can mean. BUT: This is not possible. And in fact, if the Sims 4 would be a good game, like it was until the first parts of Sims 3 came out, then Maxis wouldn´t have the problem, they have now. They fail in every aspect of programming, and so they try to fill in the gap with possibly "inclusive" things, to convince more people to buy a product, that is completely crappy. But if your behavior is funded on a lie, and you then act with dumb stereotypes to be able to react fast enough, to get a new expansion pack out, before more consumer realize, how bad the game is in fact, then these things must happen, that we can see now.

 

Usually this works fine, as we in Europe don´t feel offended by a Disney version of ourselves, like you stated towards France in the holiday addon of Sims 3, and even I am not angered by Windenburg. Hey, it´s a silly game, and we all should know that.

 

But if a "white" company acts disrespectful towards "non-white" people, this can in fact lead to a shitstorm like we see it now. And like I stated, nobody at Maxis had any interest in offend East Asian people, but they could have known about the history of European colonialism there, and of the Japanese reaction towards European interests in East Asia 100 years ago, that started with the Japanese-Russian war, and led to war and slavery in a very big scale in all of East Asia for decades. You may consider the role of, for example, even France in Vietnam...

 

This is the reason for all the anger there. Fun fact here is, that even the "East Asian" cultures don´t exist anymore as specific cultures. Even Japan and the most parts of China look like any modern society and behave as such. And if one looks from this perspective, the call for "justice" now is simply ridiculous.

 

But that is only one side of the whole thing, and the other side is shame and anger as real threads for real people. And yes, we mostly call them neurotic, but they aren´t. In fact they are of a more substancial quality, as they are part of the fact, that we all are alienated and reduced to be parts of ourselves in a world, that splits everything into pieces. Therefore I speak of psychopathology instead of a simple neurosis. That does not mean, that we all would be potential murdereres or such fancy stuff but the reactions are more powerful, than they would need to be. We all tend to overreact, and not only in specific cases but in general. And even if we here only speak of a game, and given the fact, that you are completely right, if you say, that this is overreacting by the fans, then it is more concerning than a simple neurosis, cause it shows, how deep the Sims fandom goes, and that all the angered fans aren´t able to differ between a company, that only wants our money, and a game, that is simply a game and nothing more.

 

Someone with a typical neurosis should be able to see the difference... I hope, that I still do, and I think the most here are able to see the difference. But we are a very inclusive community here, and this is not, what you will find outside of LL.

 

And that was, what I meant, when I said, I would not give a dime for EA and Maxis. They earn, what they have sown. But I love the game, and I put out some of the restrictions and selfmade censory, it comes with. I don´t feel offended by the content, I feel only a bit annoyed by the bad work of programming and all the patches, that kill my fun, and maybe a bit pissed by the lack of content, that the series once had.

 

Sorry for the long text but  the theme is very complex , and I am no native English speaker too.

 

[Qalefir]

@carlfatal

I understand what you try to say, because it is a speak I often see, but basically, I still don't understand the relationship between the race of the creators or the history of his country and the "unease" (the least).

The thing I am looking for, it is the product we get at the end and that's all. Sorry for people who are offended, but I think it's an overthinking way to see things.

 

I agree for one thing, Ea, like every company, are inclusive because it's a marketing plan, a way to sell things. That's the same thing for every decision make from these companies. (Remember the hypocrisy Nike, they pledge for BLM but they did not care for human right).

 

Edit : Of course if it was openly offensive (like homophobia...), I can't agree with this, but it is not the case here.

[carlfatal]

@RDA,

yes, EAxis never wanted to offend people. That is the difference between structural racism and people, who differ actively between so called races. Structural problems are... hmm, simply caused by the structure around them. Mostly they happen without being recognized by the actors.

 

I am not a fan of wikipedia but here you may find some good tips for literature: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racisme_d'État

 

[Qalefir]

@carlfatal I am aware of that. But this is blurry as hell. I mean, structural problem will just be replaced by other structural problem (Hell is paved with good intentions...). Maybe we should accept not all people are bad or malicious.I do not believe in universalism of society.

 

I believe that we have to educate people to accept and live with respect, equity and tolerance, not to be offended by the structure of "things".

 

But we are becoming off topic, at the end, I get your point, but I can't agree.

[carlfatal]

@RDA, I totally agree with you, only I am very interested in the backgrounds.

 

And I am also thinking, that universalism of society is a very human idea, and based on the wish to overcome complexity. But on the other hand there is no excuse for societies dividing their members into classes. That is also ideology.

 

Like I said, I don´t see morality in anything, than what the Romans used the word for, simple practice.

 

 

[Cinnamonsugar112]

On 10/28/2020 at 5:39 PM, carlfatal said:

The devs had every possibility to act like that. they didn´t and so this happened. But they did the right thing, to take a step back. I would do the same, if I would offend someone, when I would not want to do so.

But would you step back without further information, without speaking to the other side? Just courious.

 

I also did not wanted to create a discussion about human behavior, it is interessting indeed, i just wondered if there will be a Creator here who would bring the bowing back, as a CC Mod.

[DarkAudit]

All of this over a 2-second clip of a single trailer that doesn't reflect actual gameplay.

 

Some people need to get over themselves.

[carlfatal]

On 10/29/2020 at 9:32 PM, Cinnamonsugar112 said:

But would you step back without further information, without speaking to the other side? Just courious.

 

I also did not wanted to create a discussion about human behavior, it is interessting indeed, i just wondered if there will be a Creator here who would bring the bowing back, as a CC Mod.

I am not sure, what you mean, what other side should they have spoken to? The devs could have used a lot of sources to learn more about the cultures, they try to use for their profit. They didn´t, some shitstorm happened, and so they did a step back. I think, that was a good decision, nothing more.

 

And yes, if I would offend members of another culture, I would step back. What else should I do, exept it was my will to hurt someone. But if it wasn´t?

 

And I tried to explain, that all of the mistreating of people in East Asia was initialized by European Colonialism and Imperialism. That all is well known, and it didn´t start with with the so called boxer rebellion. But it didn´t end after Vietnam. It never ended. Don´t ask me, why people don´t like to read and seek knowledge about their own history. I did, I had to.

 

And if some creator would bring the bowing back, it would simply not be the same, as it would not be done for profit. This is a big difference. Nobody feels offended about a creator building a church or a mosque, or creating any religious stuff, take a look to maybe ATS. Nobody feels offended by Whicked Whims, as it is completely optional and only a mod. But here we speak about one of the biggest game companies and one of their studios. And we speak about a studio, that since it´s beginning avoided to come in conflict with religious or cultural identities. If they now choose to advertize shintoism, then at least they could have known about the outcome. Religion is a very difficult theme, there is a lot shit happening caused by religious zeal. And cultural identities - nobody needs to understand such things, but stepping into the face of someone can cause problems. So it may be helpful to know something about the interests of other people, even if you don´t share their opinions. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

As an easy example: I am no Christian but I would never act disrespectful, if I visit a church, and I am not going to offend Christian believers.

 

But like I said, it´s not my problem, I am not an employee of either EA nor Maxis. I only said, that I understand, that people can feel offended by such a behavior.

 

19 hours ago, DarkAudit said:

All of this over a 2-second clip of a single trailer that doesn't reflect actual gameplay.

 

Some people need to get over themselves.

 

Often one don´t need more than a single word to make clear, that he or her is a racist. Two seconds of a video can say a lot. Even if you don´t know, what and why, that doesn´t mean, that there isn´t some information included in pictures and words, that can and will offend people. And to be honest: I am sure, that it is even possible for you to feel offended by something, someone may say about you, or do to you.

 

All people need to get over themselves. But it is not you to decide about, what others have a right to feel offended of. The wish to decide, what others may have to feel about certain things is simply the opposite of what respect means.

 

If the devs had asked and read about the content of their new game pack, they would have known, what they would have to face, if they act like they did. We all are able to think first and act later. If we don´t. we should not wonder about the possibly bad outcome.

 

So please, don´t look at me as someone, who says mean things to you. I didn´t. I only tried to explain a certain situation, and I even did not defend the interests of Japanese or Korean gamers. But I am also not going to defend any disrespectful and greedy acting company, that isn´t paying me for doing so.

[Kashked]

So, all the drama aside, now that they have done the livestream (which I didn't watch, but I DID watch Carl's Sim Guides short version and the world overview video from The Sims Community) I'd just like to say that I absolutely love the world and am genuinly excited about this expansion. The new features are... nice I guess... but I ADORE the world, and I say that as someone who have no particular interest in japanese culture. If all the rest of it are dissapointing, atleast it will be a very good world to play in.

[carlfatal]

@Kashked, hey, they asked modders to help with the skintones, and they also asked real simmers to build the houses! From what I saw, the world indeed looks pretty amazing. And you can undress your shoes, if you go into a house. That is a very nice feature.

 

I really hope, that we will get an addon, that is worth it´s money, and not providing more bugs.

[Kashked]

I already have a mod for the shoes-thing (I'm way too european to be comfortable with people going around with shoes indoors), but getting some actually good build sure is a nice touch too. A lot of freedom of movement in the neighborhoods with actual things to go to was also nice. And the ability to do rental properties in any world is a damned godsend, finally I can set up some rentals in Sulani!

[thaclone]

back to "normal" discussion now

 

anyone knows the date for the (pre EP) patch? Since the EP is launching on a friday, I would assume, that the pre-patch will be released roughly tuesdays?!

can't remember when the patch was released on the last EP

[carlfatal]

26 minutes ago, thaclone said:

anyone knows the date for the (pre EP) patch? Since the EP is launching on a friday, I would assume, that the pre-patch will be released roughly tuesdays?!

can't remember when the patch was released on the last EP

The update will come November 10th.

[MiniGiles]

@mrhaiya In regards to the claimable rock not being in buy/build mode, is really a bug if they had not intention of it being there? Also in a lot videos thus far I keep hearing that the version being shown is still not the complete release version so there is that.

 

Side note I find it interesting that no one has mentioned that literally this pack is basically a tourists expectation of Japan during this year's Olympics, had CoVid not happened, winterized to match the "season" which is being released in the US. The Sims 4 team is definitely one that likes cultural relevant add-ons.  If the results of the interest poll had been more favorable to more Summer activities would we have gotten a full on 2020 Summer Olympics pack? That supposed leak for a farm theme, would have made more sense since 3 different Summer Olympic Events include horses. Would we have gotten skateboarding instead of skiing and snowboarding? Did some digging and oddly enough "rock" climbing is actually a Summer Olympic sport.

[thaclone]

so... everyone else excited for the

"WW is broke after game update" threads that are incoming?

 

I already prepared some popcorn

 

this weekend will be the last days for me playing - I'll be waiting at least 10 Days (after pre-patch) before even looking for Mod/CC Updates