CreationKit Crash on Launch, form 43 to form 44, esm & esp

[G9ai]

So I wanted to play skyrim again and ended up with this list of mods that i have to make a "form 44" if i am right with this. 

well that wouldnt be much of an issue if my CreationKit wouldnt crash every time i start it. and this only happens when i try to load up CreatureFramework.esm and HornyCreatures.esp(set active). I would love to give more insight and test more by myself, but i literally was only able to make CreationKit work again by uninstalling and deleting ALL SkyrimSE files (not MO2 and mods, thank god) to then obviously download SkyrimSE again. My internet is too slow to do this over and over again so I ended up asking for some help here. Before all this happened I was able to convert two other .esp to from "form 43" to "form 44" (if 44 is the latest, i really dont know)

I hope someone can help me out with this.

I use CreationKit with the Bethesda Launcher and a year back everything worked fine with that version and SkyrimSE.
I also need to know how to change .esm files to "form44" cause i didnt find much about that. only know that you need to use SSEEdit?

Thanks

The List of "form 43"s

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Form 43 plugins/masters don't need converting to Form 44. In fact, doing so can cause some of them to crash. If you're using MO2 you can disable Form 43 detection and just ignore them.

[jorgen.klein]

first of all the most stable way to get SKYRIM SE running, is using Mod Organizer 2.  make it an executable from within, Creation kit should always be installed in your game directory. Then it should be no longer an issue.. 

Think the best way to proceed (just to be sure you have it compleet) reinstall creation kit from the bethesda.net launcher, that way you are also be sure you have the 64bit version, because if you still have an old 32bit version, it worn't work with SKYRIM SE and crash.

 

Hope this helps

[Pfiffy]

For resaving .ESM files look for the creation kit fixes. It has an option to resave them. 

for the rest: You should only resave, if you know what you are doing. And resaving is just a little part of converting a mod.

 

CF is already avilible in a resaved version and at this point I suggest installing the old version instead of using the new on included in MNC. (read the CF SE and MNC SE support forums) 

for MNC and HCOS it is not worth the hassle, I can't speak for the rest.  

[G9ai]

5 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Form 43 plugins/masters don't need converting to Form 44. In fact, doing so can cause some of them to crash. If you're using MO2 you can disable Form 43 detection and just ignore them.

Is disabling/ignoring the Form 43 warning an option for both .esm and .esp? Will my game work fine or will this cause issues like infinite loading/ctd's and stuff?
 

5 hours ago, jorgen.klein said:

first of all the most stable way to get SKYRIM SE running, is using Mod Organizer 2.  make it an executable from within, Creation kit should always be installed in your game directory. Then it should be no longer an issue.. 

Think the best way to proceed (just to be sure you have it compleet) reinstall creation kit from the bethesda.net launcher, that way you are also be sure you have the 64bit version, because if you still have an old 32bit version, it worn't work with SKYRIM SE and crash.

 

Hope this helps

I am using CreativeKit 64-Bit with the Bethesda launcher and it is placed inside the main SkyrimSE folder. It generally worked, but I now put it as an executeable inside MO2, so hopefully now it works fine for the future. Didnt know that can mess up CK
 

5 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

For resaving .ESM files look for the creation kit fixes. It has an option to resave them. 

for the rest: You should only resave, if you know what you are doing. And resaving is just a little part of converting a mod.

 

CF is already avilible in a resaved version and at this point I suggest installing the old version instead of using the new on included in MNC. (read the CF SE and MNC SE support forums) 

for MNC and HCOS it is not worth the hassle, I can't speak for the rest.  

I dont really know where that option to resave is located in CK, could you be more specific? Maybe im just too blind for it!
Also, do you have a link for me to the old CF (=CreatureFramework), it's kinda hard finding everything needed with the right version.
By MNC (MoreNastyCritters and HCOS (HornyCreatures...i suppose?) not being worth the hassle, do you mean just uninstall them or are there other mods for that kind of stuff?

[Pfiffy]

3 hours ago, G9ai said:

 

I dont really know where that option to resave is located in CK, could you be more specific? Maybe im just too blind for it!
Also, do you have a link for me to the old CF (=CreatureFramework), it's kinda hard finding everything needed with the right version.
By MNC (MoreNastyCritters and HCOS (HornyCreatures...i suppose?) not being worth the hassle, do you mean just uninstall them or are there other mods for that kind of stuff?

So you don't really know what you are doing... Resaving means open an ESP in the new CK and save it. After that the esp will have the new header. But you have to be careful with that, because the new CK sometimes makes edits, that might simply wreck up everything.

And it is not worth the hassle to resave MNC and HCOS. MadManGun makes too many updates

[jorgen.klein]

About the form 43 issue, yes some mods work better in the form 43, and yes you can put it off in Mod Organizer without screwing up your game or system.

Go to the tools symbol in Mod Organizer 2 --> scroll down till you see "form 43 plugin checker" and click on it --> now you besides that screen that says ' enabled   true" ---> click on the "true" part. A drop down menu should appear where you can choose between "true" and "false'-- > choose "false" ..then "ok" below and you are done. 

 

Any mod that has been converted by its author to SE, without changing it to form 44, did this with the reason that the mod wont work as intended in SE in the new Form, you should NEVER ever!! trying to convert it to the new form. 

IF you convert mods yourself to skyrim SE, test it thoroughly to be sure that all parts of the mod works like it did in LE, othewise it may be better to let it be in the old form, and only adapt the meshes, textures and scripts.. and clean it with tessedit.

[G9ai]

10 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

So you don't really know what you are doing... Resaving means open an ESP in the new CK and save it. After that the esp will have the new header. But you have to be careful with that, because the new CK sometimes makes edits, that might simply wreck up everything.

And it is not worth the hassle to resave MNC and HCOS. MadManGun makes too many updates

You made it sound like there is a specific option to press "resave", but yea thats exactly how i did it.

 

35 minutes ago, jorgen.klein said:

About the form 43 issue, yes some mods work better in the form 43, and yes you can put it off in Mod Organizer without screwing up your game or system.

Go to the tools symbol in Mod Organizer 2 --> scroll down till you see "form 43 plugin checker" and click on it --> now you besides that screen that says ' enabled   true" ---> click on the "true" part. A drop down menu should appear where you can choose between "true" and "false'-- > choose "false" ..then "ok" below and you are done. 

 

Any mod that has been converted by its author to SE, without changing it to form 44, did this with the reason that the mod wont work as intended in SE in the new Form, you should NEVER ever!! trying to convert it to the new form. 

IF you convert mods yourself to skyrim SE, test it thoroughly to be sure that all parts of the mod works like it did in LE, othewise it may be better to let it be in the old form, and only adapt the meshes, textures and scripts.. and clean it with tessedit.

Thank you! That is very helpful ~

I'm gonna try to make it work now, if something comes up again i post it here. Thanks everyone

[Pfiffy]

4 minutes ago, jorgen.klein said:

About the form 43 issue, yes some mods work better in the form 43, and yes you can put it off in Mod Organizer without screwing up your game or system.

Go to the tools symbol in Mod Organizer 2 --> scroll down till you see "form 43 plugin checker" and click on it --> now you besides that screen that says ' enabled   true" ---> click on the "true" part. A drop down menu should appear where you can choose between "true" and "false'-- > choose "false" ..then "ok" below and you are done. 

 

Any mod that has been converted by its author to SE, without changing it to form 44, did this with the reason that the mod wont work as intended in SE in the new Form, you should NEVER ever!! trying to convert it to the new form. 

IF you convert mods yourself to skyrim SE, test it thoroughly to be sure that all parts of the mod works like it did in LE, othewise it may be better to let it be in the old form, and only adapt the meshes, textures and scripts.. and clean it with tessedit.

After struggeling with the 'All-mods-have-to-be-converted-to-form-44' prayers, it seems that I now have to struggle with the 'Don't-resave-at-all' prayers...

 

The truth is, that it is 'a good practice' (the original statement, which started the fuzz....) If you have big mods that will not change for a long time (DD and ZAZ for example) it makes sense to resave them, but not for the header, but for seeing if the internals are placed right in SE. It also makes sense for mods that add weapons or quests. But simply resaving them will not do at this point: Checking them is XEdit afterwards against the original is an important step. Especially if you have to deal with soft dependencies. But in this case you really should know what you are doing. If not you better ask someone who does.

 

And you have to know, that at least 50% of the conversions are not made by the original authors. Especially the basic have been done by the community and without any help of the original authors. 

 

13 hours ago, G9ai said:

Is disabling/ignoring the Form 43 warning an option for both .esm and .esp? Will my game work fine or will this cause issues like infinite loading/ctd's and stuff?
 

I am using CreativeKit 64-Bit with the Bethesda launcher and it is placed inside the main SkyrimSE folder. It generally worked, but I now put it as an executeable inside MO2, so hopefully now it works fine for the future. Didnt know that can mess up CK
 

I dont really know where that option to resave is located in CK, could you be more specific? Maybe im just too blind for it!
Also, do you have a link for me to the old CF (=CreatureFramework), it's kinda hard finding everything needed with the right version.
By MNC (MoreNastyCritters and HCOS (HornyCreatures...i suppose?) not being worth the hassle, do you mean just uninstall them or are there other mods for that kind of stuff?

The SE versions of CF, MNC and HCOS are handled by me and you can find them in the Skyrim SE download section here on LL. For a full list of ports you can take a look into the conversion trecking center by tasairis. And sometimes google is you best frind. Just make sure that you reall get the SE version.

[Just Don't]

6 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

After struggeling with the 'All-mods-have-to-be-converted-to-form-44' prayers, it seems that I now have to struggle with the 'Don't-resave-at-all' prayers...

Extreme poles are the only available options, what did you expect? duh.

 

The most comprehensive explanation I've seen is this

Quote

The only real issue I have actual knowledge of occurring related to form version 44 is water not having flow direction, as that was added in form version 44. Mods which have WATR records in form version 43 won't have these subrecords and thus won't have water flow direction if their WATR records "win".

The other records I mentioned there could have similar issues, I've just never seen it myself. E.g. weathers reference LENS/VOLI records, so if a mod changes weathers it could make godrays disappear. Again not a huge issue though.

The idea that form version 43 plugins could crash the game was a myth that people came up with and was perpetuated by people including myself. I've grown a bit more critical in what I believe in regards to modding over the years, as there's a lot of misinformation as noted by the OP.

mator, 7 months ago.

Which is far from statements like "Yep, it will cause you problems sooner or later. It'll manifest itself generally as weird errors, but will progress to corruption before long." (Arthmoor, 2 years ago), and there is more from dear Arthi in this regard, I think he also maintains this belief (1 year ago, not a single word since then about form 43 at least in his reddit account) without providing any sort of evidence for his claims.

 

Now we know (because we've been using known mods in form 43 for years) that it doesn't cause any major harm. While on the other hand, people who tried to port everything to form 44 found several users reporting mod features not working partially or at all (mainly in the SSE Conversion tracking thread some months ago).

So my personal advice in this matter is: leave it in the hands of people who know. If you have to ask how to do this, don't do it. If record changes are necessary for the mod in question (like water and weather records mentioned by mator) the mod author or people with the proper knowledge will do the work. If the mod has nothing to do with these records and has been available for download for months or even years with the plugin in form 43, don't try to "fix it" now (ex. SOS, Defeat, some plugins from XPMSSE, etc.).

[Pfiffy]

22 minutes ago, dontknowdontcaredontask said:

Extreme poles are the only available options, what did you expect? duh.

 

The most comprehensive explanation I've seen is this

Which is far from statements like "Yep, it will cause you problems sooner or later. It'll manifest itself generally as weird errors, but will progress to corruption before long." (Arthmoor, 2 years ago), and there is more from dear Arthi in this regard, I think he also maintains this belief (1 year ago, not a single word since then about form 43 at least in his reddit account) without providing any sort of evidence for his claims.

 

Now we know (because we've been using known mods in form 43 for years) that it doesn't cause any major harm. While on the other hand, people who tried to port everything to form 44 found several users reporting mod features not working partially or at all (mainly in the SSE Conversion tracking thread some months ago).

So my personal advice in this matter is: leave it in the hands of people who know. If you have to ask how to do this, don't do it. If record changes are necessary for the mod in question (like water and weather records mentioned by mator) the mod author or people with the proper knowledge will do the work. If the mod has nothing to do with these records and has been available for download for months or even years with the plugin in form 43, don't try to "fix it" now (ex. SOS, Defeat, some plugins from XPMSSE, etc.).

Artmoor... I screwed up live another live SE by accidentially resaving it....The new CK is a bitch.....