What's the best magic overhaul mod?

[Apap]

Hey guys!

 

So I have been wondering: what's currently the best/ most popular mod to fix the rather disappointing vanilla destruction magic system? 

 

I play a mage character and even though in early game it was kinda bearable thanks to double-casting, once I entered mid-game the lack of proper damage scaling became pretty apparent and borderline annoying.

 

I am looking for a mod that would make destruction magic more balanced, preferably without adding extra gimmicks like new/ custom OP spells to even the odds. I found these, for example:

 

1. Balanced Magic

2. Truly Balanced Destruction Magic

 

They both look good on paper but they're also kind of ancient, so I'm not sure how stable/ compatible they would still be, and gods know I don't need another broken save lol

 

What would you guys recommend? 

 

Thanks!

[karlpaws]

The magic systems I've tried usually ended up adding complicated and fancy spells that just made things too difficult for me to enjoy.

 

One thing I have found that helps a lot is SkyTweak's damage scaling (and I suppose an Uncapper would help).  It lets you tweak how much damage increases or duration increases (for restoration, alteration or illusion spells: stoneskin or muffle or invis, say) as your skill in the skill goes up.  There are also sliders for one and two handed weapons and some other things.

 

So, at level 1 you can have spells do standard damage at standard cost, but at level 100 (that's as high as SkyTweak sliders go, but I think it scales beyond, haven't tested exactly)  you can have a spell cost 100% or 50% or even 5%, meaning even with a much larger pool and enchantment lowering spell costs, you can fling a lot more spells.  You can also slide the damage from 100% to 200% or I think (from memory) maxes out at 1000% of normal.  That makes the lowly flames spell even practical against basic bandit chiefs, even if they're level 20 (and you're 60 and they really should be fleeing - and you want to let that perk make them actually do so).

[PubliusNV]

I use Mighty Magick Skyrim https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13166

 

Not sure if it fits your criteria though.

[Grey Cloud]

20 hours ago, karlpaws said:

The magic systems I've tried usually ended up adding complicated and fancy spells that just made things too difficult for me to enjoy.

That's more or less my experience.

I don't have a problem with the vanilla system  - I usually play a spellsword type and firebolt and later fireball works for me. I use chain lightning as a back up.

I'm not sure from the OP whether you are complaining that vanilla magic is too weak or too strong.

[thesteve812]

I liked Forgotten Magic Redone when I did a Mage.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/35339

[Darkpig]

4 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

That's more or less my experience.

I don't have a problem with the vanilla system  - I usually play a spellsword type and firebolt and later fireball works for me. I use chain lightning as a back up.

I'm not sure from the OP whether you are complaining that vanilla magic is too weak or too strong.

I think the OP is saying that the gameplay loop is broken. At the start you can cast basic flame spells that can work on say novice difficulty but one could easily swing a sword through adept or higher. Normally you'd have companions to help you out in rpgs while your mana recharges but npc's in Skyrim will always get in your way whether it is an arrow or especially a fireball so it eliminates that option. With the enchantment to lower the cost of spells to zero one could dispatch most foes with ease but it still is nothing compared to the daedric sword smithed to legendary enchanted with fire and electricity buffed to perfection by the fortify one handed enchantment.

[karlpaws]

3 hours ago, Darkpig said:

I think the OP is saying that the gameplay loop is broken. At the start you can cast basic flame spells that can work on say novice difficulty but one could easily swing a sword through adept or higher. Normally you'd have companions to help you out in rpgs while your mana recharges but npc's in Skyrim will always get in your way whether it is an arrow or especially a fireball so it eliminates that option. With the enchantment to lower the cost of spells to zero one could dispatch most foes with ease but it still is nothing compared to the daedric sword smithed to legendary enchanted with fire and electricity buffed to perfection by the fortify one handed enchantment.

I took the "not enough damage at higher levels" approach as well and unless you have something to add sneak damage to spells (which iirc SkyTweak does do too) making the stealth mage hurling fireballs from the shadows/invis pocket a nigh terror, you are better off just enchanting a godsword and going toe to toe. 

 

 

[Darkpig]

6 minutes ago, karlpaws said:

I took the "not enough damage at higher levels" approach as well and unless you have something to add sneak damage to spells (which iirc SkyTweak does do too) making the stealth mage hurling fireballs from the shadows/invis pocket a nigh terror, you are better off just enchanting a godsword and going toe to toe. 

 

 

Not without this:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/87414

 

Of course I use a mod to up the power of stealth detection.

[Grey Cloud]

All of this depends on how tough the opposition is.

[Apap]

Yeah, basically my problem is that in this game there is no way to scale your spell damage output that would make it on-par with conventional weapons. Sure, you can get a +50% from the Destruction skill tree, but that's basically it. As pointed out, weaponry you can smith up to impressive values and add extra enchantments on top (not to mention perks) so the end result does not even compare. 

 

Sure, you say you can build a spellsword, but that's not the point. The point is to have the option of building a pure caster character that would still be effective, that's all   Vanilla design sadly make mages just a role-playing option really, because in late game your damage output from spells is incomparably weaker than what you could have if you swung a highly upgraded+enchanted weapon. The 0 magic cost enchantment strategy does not speak to me because it just makes spamming your sparkly tickles easier, and it still takes ages to take down the enemy with them.

 

The mods I mention in my OP just tweak the bonuses to magic (like dmg scaling with magic level, adding extra dmg to proficiency perks etc.) and so make the mage build competitive with other builds, but still within the framework of the original game, and that's what I am looking for - to "fix" the original concept rather than cover it by adding some outlandish OP things as means of balance

 

[Darkpig]

I think the problem primarily lies in the crafting system now that I think about it. Also the fact that there are nasty enchantments in the Skyrim leveled lists. Balanced Magic did a good job in limiting how much you can lower your spell costs. Having an enchantment to power up destruction spells would go a long way in making a better Skyrim. I mean there are enchantments to power up one handed, two handed and archery skills so why not? I know Summermyst does this but it has been awhile since last I used it so I don't know how powerful those enchantments are plus it comes with other enchantments so it comes down to you to determine what is balanced. The only other thing I can thing of is getting a spell package that ups the power of destruction spells for a short time but I feel that it is too redundant. Might I also recommend Vokrii by the same author who made Summermyst? The damage for destruction spells does scale if by a fair amount as you level and there are perks that award robe wearing so it may be worth checking out. Vokrii or may not work with the two mods you mentioned so that will require some testing. I hope it helps.

 

I might try Summermyst again.

[Apap]

Yeah, having enchantment based damage buffs to schools of magic would be one way of evening out the odds. Summermyst looks quite interesting but a bit too complex at the same time for what I want to do with my game. I might check out Vokrii actually.

 

Well, I haven't installed either of the mods I mentioned because they haven't been updated for years. I'm not sure how would they work now, especially as some of the newest comments on them do report issues. Pity really because they are exactly what I would like. In the end maybe I'll test them after all if I don't find anything simiar that was made relatively recently.

[karlpaws]

One of the mods I use is Lore Friendly Spells (had to check it wasn't Lost Grimoire) that adds spells to reduce the resistance of a target.  If you hotkey that and your casting spell (fireball or ice spike, say) you could cast the Aversion spell then reload your damage spell and dual cast that.

 

Otherwise, yes I can agree that crafting is seriously broken, and a few dozen youtube videos pretty much make the case.  While patched (I think at least) the Alchemy / Fortify Enchanting / Enchant Fortify Alchemy cycle can create some pretty silly gear.

[Darkpig]

15 hours ago, karlpaws said:

One of the mods I use is Lore Friendly Spells (had to check it wasn't Lost Grimoire) that adds spells to reduce the resistance of a target.  If you hotkey that and your casting spell (fireball or ice spike, say) you could cast the Aversion spell then reload your damage spell and dual cast that.

 

Otherwise, yes I can agree that crafting is seriously broken, and a few dozen youtube videos pretty much make the case.  While patched (I think at least) the Alchemy / Fortify Enchanting / Enchant Fortify Alchemy cycle can create some pretty silly gear.

That is alot of spells. Where should I start looking? Is there any spell in particular that does more damage when sneaking?

 

Edit: Whoops. Wrong thread. ?

[karlpaws]

37 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

That is alot of spells. Where should I start looking? Is there any spell in particular that does more damage when sneaking?

I'm not sure which ones specially are boosted, since I'd forgotten about that and haven't looked in the mod yet, but the spells Flare, Zap and Needle are the silent ones.  It might be that they're what are referenced, or might be they just have the casting sound removed so they're silenced and don't give away your position.

[Grey Cloud]

15 hours ago, Apap said:

Well, I haven't installed either of the mods I mentioned because they haven't been updated for years. I'm not sure how would they work now, especially as some of the newest comments on them do report issues.

I use Summermyst and have for quite a while now. Never had any problems with it as far as I know. I had forgotten about it until I saw your post which shows how much it is just part of my game.